Marvel M1 - Fielding Questions Options

[JAdams]

Jeff Adams here - one of the co-founders of Marvel Wheelchairs.

There has been a bunch of conversation on these forums, so I'd like to make myself available to answer any questions that people might have on the Marvel M1.

Please let us know what you think of it. The current design of the M1 came as a result of an enormous amount of research, testing, and design review using real people who really use wheelchairs - we tried to canvass a good cross section of riders, high and low paras and high and low quads. As hard as we tried though, we know that there are going to be a lot of unique needs and requests - so we want to listen to the suggestions and the feedback, and will commit to doing everything we can to respond in the best way we can.

I've read the threads here, and want to respond to a few of the themes that seem to be at the forefront.

Marvel the company: Marvel was started by four people - myself and Christian Bagg, two guys who have used wheelchairs for 45 years cumulatively, and Phil White and Gerard Vroomen, two guys who own Cervelo Cycles, and who build the best bikes in the world (the Cervelo sponsored team won the Tour de France last year, and had the most stage wins on the pro circuit this year).

The reason we partnered with a bike company was to gain access to their research and development, their engineers (the guy who engineered the suspension on the M1 for us was Paul Tracey's engineer when he was racing for Penske before he came to Cervelo), and most of all to make sure that this isn't just another small wheelchair company with a good idea that is only around for a year or so.

Price: The M1 was priced to be competitive in the market, and the price is "all in" as opposed to a base price plus options - when you compare "apples to apples", and put similar options on the other major brands in the market, the M1 is equal to or less than the competition.

Having said that, the M1 has an ENORMOUS amount of technology designed into it - the front castor wing is a hydroformed part with variable guage wall thickness to optimize strength and weight - the frame is made entirely of custom extruded tubes, the chair is entirely carbon fiber from the seat pan up, and it has the best suspension on the market.

Material: We followed the lead of the bicycle industry and turned away from titanium - it's difficult to work with, and very limiting in terms of the manufacturing processes that you can use. It has been all but entirely rejected by the bike manufacturers, in favour of aluminum and carbon fiber, mostly because in the last ten years or so those materials have improved to the point where they are the materials of choice. You can read more about why we decided in favour of aluminum and carbon over titanium here.

Weight: The M1 is 1/2 pound heavier than a TiLite ZR with similar components, except that the M1 has full adjustability, and suspension. The specific weights of the M1 component parts (in lbs) are:

Frame set w/wing, carbon back, carbon seat and sideguards - 14.95
Rogue Wheels (loaded) - 8.1
Brakes - 1.6
Transfer handles - .6
Rogue back cushion - .35
anti-tip - 1.2 lbs
2x 1" seat spacer - .2 lbs

14.95 lbs with no wheels, 22.5 lbs all in, 26.55 lbs with a bunch of accessories.

Photo four in our gallery shows the M1 on a scale here.

We're confident that this weight stacks up to the competition - please remember that comparisons should be "apples to apples" to be fair - solid seat, solid back, adjustable - AND should be "real world scale" weight, NOT "published in marketing materials" weight.

Adjustability: We designed the M1 to be adjustable for a number of reasons, principally because we know first hand how difficult it is to get all those measurements right.

The M1 adjusts every measurement - and acknowledging that previous adjustable chairs have had "rattle loose" issues, the M1 passed the 200 000 cycle RESNA bump test without a single readjustment of any component - last video on the page here. In the same way as a Cervelo cycle has an enormous amount of adjustable components that don't rattle loose on the decents through the Alps in the Tour de France, the M1 doesn't loosen up either - the components were all designed in the same way that high quality bike parts are.

The adjustability also allows for the rider to "adjust" their lifestyle and their physical situation - whether it's gaining chair skills for someone who is new to using a wheelchair and needs to gradually increase the COG, or someone gaining or losing weight or going from sea to ski and needs to widen the seat to wear heavier clothing, the M1 responds and adjusts to accomodate.

It's great chair for someone going through the rehab process where the chair geometry they need on day one is certainly not going to be the geometry they need after even a couple of weeks let alone a year down the road. It's equally great for an experienced user who often is onto their 3rd or 4th chair before they start to get close to "dialing it in".

It has a profound effect on "trialing" the chair - when a rider trials the chair, it can be set up exactly the way they will get it on delivery - no more testing in a demo chair that is close but not quite right, and changing a key measurement by an inch or so when it comes time to fill out the order form.

The M1 has an adjustable seat angle that can be fine tuned so that you don't have to take a best guess at how many inches of seat dump you want - and you have the luxury of changing your mind about any of those measurements after a day or a month or a year - for any reason whatsoever.

The adjustability also lets us do some pretty radical things in terms of delivery - we had a rider call us from Austria last week on Wednesday at just after 5pm - their chair had been wrecked in an accident with a gondola, and they needed a new chair immediately. I stayed late to start the build, it was finished in the morning and QC'd by our head mechanic, shipped out that morning, and got to him 36 hours after his call, going from Toronto to Austria, and it fit perfectly because we could adjust it to his measurements.

We rushed the order for him, but we regularly ship within 24 hours of getting an order, which is unheard of for a high end chair, and all but impossible for a conventional custom fit order.

Suspension: We think suspension is critical to any sophisticated vehicle - we've been asking people to name another vehicle without suspension - skateboards have suspension, even office chairs have suspension.

The reason office chairs have suspension is because even a chair doesn't move, having suspension has an enormous beneficial effect on fatigue.

We think the M1 does suspension the right way - it doesn't bob and sap power, nor does it "rebound" and throw the rider up and forward, nor does is shift the cog backwards causing "tippiness". See video here.

The suspension has fully adjustable damp and rebound, can be tailored to the rider weight in one pound increments, and can be fully locked out.

Modularity: The M1 was designed to be modular for a number of reasons - for transport it fits in places that no other chair can - like the overhead bins or coat closet on an airplane (photo five). It goes into small cars - see video here.

It gives us a lot of leeway in terms of changing the individual modular parts without doing an entire redesign - an example of what this does is the way it lets us turn the M1 into an offroad chair (photos eight and nine).

By swapping out the everyday front castor wing, and replacing it with an off-road front, and changing the everyday back wheels for off-road ones, we can give the rider the choice of having an all terrain chair without having to buy (and store and transport) a whole other chair. Because of the modularity, the rider can also choose to only change out one of the modular components (like only the backs if the issue is snow, or only the front if the issue is grass).

Guarantee: LIFETIME ON THE FRAME AND CASTOR WING. And by lifetime we don't mean 5 years like some of our competitors. Photo of how confident we are in the strength of the M1 frame at photo 6 here.

(Yes, that is an M1 frame under the back wheel of my very heavy station wagon).

This is already an enormously long post, but I really want to make sure that the information out there is accurate - I'll do my best to answer any questions that you might have, and like I said, we're excited to hear any and all feedback - it's the only way for us to make sure that what we're putting out is what is needed.

[greybeard]

Hi Jeff,

Any dealers in the UK on the way?

[JAdams]

We've had a bunch of inquiries from dealers in the UK, but we want to be careful with who we bring on board - one of our philosophies is to go with quality dealers who provide great service.

Until we sign dealers, we're selling direct with a discount.

Any advice/opinion you could give on dealers in the UK would be great.

[greybeard]

Any advice/opinion you could give on dealers in the UK would be great.

Being so new to wheelchairs, I couldn't begin to offer advice about dealers. I'm sure there are plenty of others here who will do so.

From what I've read of your design, it has to be a winner. Good luck with it.

[wheeels]

First thing Go Canada Go.

Ok I have sat in the chair and like it I just need to wait another 3 years for my funding to kick back in to get on.

I agree with the usage of aluminum over titanium, titanium is cool but does not have enough advantages to use it.

I was not aware you tapered some of your tubes I like that.

When are you going to come out with a front ski attachment for the winter?

And when is Cervelo going to build a carbon handcycle?

One more thing the new website looks way better then the old one.

This post has been edited by wheeels: Nov 3 2009, 07:17 PM

[JAdams]

Thanks - we're a pretty international company already - our sales and marketing office is in Plano, TX - assembly in Toronto, Canada, prototyping in Calgary (metal), and San Diego (carbon), and our frames are welded in the Pacific Northwest.

We already have an off-road front end that is nearing the end of the development/testing phase - it should be available in 4-6 months.

You can see photos (#8 and 9) here:

http://www.marvelwheelchairs.com/category/gallery

First thing Go Canada Go.

Ok I have sat in the chair and like it I just need to wait another 3 years for my funding to kick back in to get on.

I agree with the usage of aluminum over titanium, titanium is cool but does not have enough advantages to use it.

I was not aware you tapered some of your tubes I like that.

When are you going to come out with a front ski attachment for the winter?

And when is Cervelo going to build a carbon handcycle?

One more thing the new website looks way better then the old one.