I wanted to post some of my findings from my visit (Monday and Tuesday) to Project Walk in Carlsbad, CA. I visited the center without Andrew because I didn't want to put him through the trip if it didn't turn out to be what we thought it was going to be. I was given the opportunity to meet with the owner/developer of the method (Ted Dardzinski), staff, clients, and clients' family members.
First of all . . . this place is strictly a gym; it is not a hospital (which I knew beforehand, just wanted to share that first). As far as the enviornment goes . . . it's clean, up-to-date, very spacious, and friendly . . . I felt very comfortable from the onset of my visit. I first met with Mr. Dardzinski, who summarized the entire program for me. He also provided me with the history of how he developed the method and the evolution of the method over the years. Short of the long . . . he used to strictly train professional athletes (from those with injuries to those needing to improve on what they had). One day, a person with SCI approached Mr. Dardzinski to "train" him in the same manner the athletes were being trained. He said that he was relunctant to do so, but "blindly" gave it a try and found that the activities he was doing with this person were giving him some return of function. It later proved to provide this person with better overall health and assisted in a substantial decreas in meds. This motivated him to pursue development of an excersise method for people with SCI and he eventually developed the "Dardzinski Method."
I won't go into the details of the method because that can be found on the Project Walk website www.projectwalk.org
After my meeting with him I was taken around the facility by a lady (Lisa) who is an advanced specialist trained in the method. She allowed me to meet some of the clients and speak with them about their experiences at Project Walk. I was also able to observe them while being trained. I then was able to wander around by myself, which gave me the opportunity to visit with some of the family members. I won't share all of the stories, but I want to tell you one thing . . . on those given days that I visited, the clients present that I spoke with only had good things to say. Every person I spoke with had some sort of restoration of function. Their injuries varied from C3 levels to the lowest L level . . . from complete to incomplete, all degrees on the Asia scale, and new injuries to injuries more than 10 years old. A couple people were already walking (before Project Walk) and were there to improve their gaits and some told me they came in with power chairs (sippin n puffin) and were now pushing manual chairs. I won't share all of their stories, but will give you an example of one . . . because I spoke with his mother at great length. I met this 15 year old boy who was injured at 14 months of age (ran over by a car). He was injured at the C4 level and was unable to move below his shoulders for approximately 9 years. He was provided some passive and occupational therapy throughout those years, but nothing intensive. He began going to Project Walk in 2005. I was there when he and his mom arrived (yesterday). I watched him come in pusing himself in a manual chair, he pulled up to a bike, locked his wheels, pushed himself up into a standing position, and then two staff members lifted up on the bike and he began peddling (on his own, not FES). He continues to gain . . . just last month he began regaining function in his right hand (got his left back a while ago). Everyone I spoke with described their health benefits since they began Project Walk. Most are off all their spasm meds, most have not had a single UTI since starting, and most have not experienced any pressure sores. In EVERY person's case of those I spoke to . . . they first began feeling sensation and each person who had any function restorated has gained from the toes up. This really confused me, because I can specifically remember being told at Craig Hospital that if anything ever comes back it will start from the top and go down . . . so they said "don't worry about the legs right now . . . work those arms."
So I (of course) asked the question . . . "If all of these people, that I am apparently witnessing to be making unbelievable gains, are doing it . . . why isn't everyone with SCI in there doing it?" You guessed it . . . MONEY. It's expensive. If you do in-house (which in my opinion is going to be the best way to get anywhere), then it costs $3,600 a month ($100/hour @ 3 days/week, 3 hours each day). There is the home-based program . . . They will train you and any family member(s) and a "hometown" therapist if you so desire for a 5 day trial week for $1,500. Then you're supposed to go home and do what they teach you 3 day/s per week. Now, in my case . . . I'd have to hire a trainer at home (cha ching), because I'm not strong or big enough to do with Andrew what I would need to. Plus, Andrew wouldn't have the benefit of the "motivational, gym-like" atmosphere. So, how do we get there? Very good question. It's kind of like getting the most beautiful Barbie as a child and being told . . . "you can't play with it honey; this is a collector's item."
And, please understand . . . I'm not looking at this place because I have convinced myself or (more importantly) Andrew that if he goes he will walk. I began this quest to find an alternative to all these 30+ meds he's on, to improve his overall health. And, what I found was an advantage I hadn't even considered. Before his injury, Andrew lived to go to the gym. He loved excersise. I would go to the gym with him and would basicallly hate every minute of that stupid ellyptical. I never understood his love for it . . . but I know it existed. Since his injury, Andrew is so limited in what he can do that gives him pleasure. He's tried to play with the computer, but that laser mouse thing that sticks to his forehead frustrates him more than anything . . . plus, he doesn't really enjoy the computer (never has). He enjoys movies, but doesn't like going out to the theaters because the one time we did that . . . it was so cold in there that it caused his sinus' to drain which caused him to need suction every 10 minutes. So . . . his pleasure is limited to what I can think of that can take place at home because that's where he's most comfortable. TV, reading, visitors, and the kids . . . that's his world . . . oh yeah, and me; but could you imagine spending every moment of every day with your crazy wife . . . ugh! This place (Project Walk) would serve to provide him a place to go that he once loved. It's totally a gym atmosphere. HOW DO I GET HIM THERE????
So . . . as you can tell; my experience was good, albeit bittersweet. But, I'm not giving up . . . got my brain working overtime and I'm gonna figure this out. Even if he didn't gain one iddy biddy bit of function . . . I believe his health would improve and it would give him a piece of a world I'm sure he thought was long gone.
Hope this info is useful . . . if you have any specific questions about what I observed, don't hesitate to ask.
Joye
Full Version: Project Walk
Quadriplegic & Paraplegic Spinal Cord Injuries > Disabled Living & Spinal Cord Injuries > Spinal Cord Injury Research, Cure & Treatment News
QUOTE (joye @ May 6 2009, 07:44 PM) 
I wanted to post some of my findings from my visit (Monday and Tuesday) to Project Walk in Carlsbad, CA. I visited the center without Andrew because I didn't want to put him through the trip if it didn't turn out to be what we thought it was going to be. I was given the opportunity to meet with the owner/developer of the method (Ted Dardzinski), staff, clients, and clients' family members.
First of all . . . this place is strictly a gym; it is not a hospital (which I knew beforehand, just wanted to share that first). As far as the enviornment goes . . . it's clean, up-to-date, very spacious, and friendly . . . I felt very comfortable from the onset of my visit. I first met with Mr. Dardzinski, who summarized the entire program for me. He also provided me with the history of how he developed the method and the evolution of the method over the years. Short of the long . . . he used to strictly train professional athletes (from those with injuries to those needing to improve on what they had). One day, a person with SCI approached Mr. Dardzinski to "train" him in the same manner the athletes were being trained. He said that he was relunctant to do so, but "blindly" gave it a try and found that the activities he was doing with this person were giving him some return of function. It later proved to provide this person with better overall health and assisted in a substantial decreas in meds. This motivated him to pursue development of an excersise method for people with SCI and he eventually developed the "Dardzinski Method."
I won't go into the details of the method because that can be found on the Project Walk website www.projectwalk.org
After my meeting with him I was taken around the facility by a lady (Lisa) who is an advanced specialist trained in the method. She allowed me to meet some of the clients and speak with them about their experiences at Project Walk. I was also able to observe them while being trained. I then was able to wander around by myself, which gave me the opportunity to visit with some of the family members. I won't share all of the stories, but I want to tell you one thing . . . on those given days that I visited, the clients present that I spoke with only had good things to say. Every person I spoke with had some sort of restoration of function. Their injuries varied from C3 levels to the lowest L level . . . from complete to incomplete, all degrees on the Asia scale, and new injuries to injuries more than 10 years old. A couple people were already walking (before Project Walk) and were there to improve their gaits and some told me they came in with power chairs (sippin n puffin) and were now pushing manual chairs. I won't share all of their stories, but will give you an example of one . . . because I spoke with his mother at great length. I met this 15 year old boy who was injured at 14 months of age (ran over by a car). He was injured at the C4 level and was unable to move below his shoulders for approximately 9 years. He was provided some passive and occupational therapy throughout those years, but nothing intensive. He began going to Project Walk in 2005. I was there when he and his mom arrived (yesterday). I watched him come in pusing himself in a manual chair, he pulled up to a bike, locked his wheels, pushed himself up into a standing position, and then two staff members lifted up on the bike and he began peddling (on his own, not FES). He continues to gain . . . just last month he began regaining function in his right hand (got his left back a while ago). Everyone I spoke with described their health benefits since they began Project Walk. Most are off all their spasm meds, most have not had a single UTI since starting, and most have not experienced any pressure sores. In EVERY person's case of those I spoke to . . . they first began feeling sensation and each person who had any function restorated has gained from the toes up. This really confused me, because I can specifically remember being told at Craig Hospital that if anything ever comes back it will start from the top and go down . . . so they said "don't worry about the legs right now . . . work those arms."
So I (of course) asked the question . . . "If all of these people, that I am apparently witnessing to be making unbelievable gains, are doing it . . . why isn't everyone with SCI in there doing it?" You guessed it . . . MONEY. It's expensive. If you do in-house (which in my opinion is going to be the best way to get anywhere), then it costs $3,600 a month ($100/hour @ 3 days/week, 3 hours each day). There is the home-based program . . . They will train you and any family member(s) and a "hometown" therapist if you so desire for a 5 day trial week for $1,500. Then you're supposed to go home and do what they teach you 3 day/s per week. Now, in my case . . . I'd have to hire a trainer at home (cha ching), because I'm not strong or big enough to do with Andrew what I would need to. Plus, Andrew wouldn't have the benefit of the "motivational, gym-like" atmosphere. So, how do we get there? Very good question. It's kind of like getting the most beautiful Barbie as a child and being told . . . "you can't play with it honey; this is a collector's item."
And, please understand . . . I'm not looking at this place because I have convinced myself or (more importantly) Andrew that if he goes he will walk. I began this quest to find an alternative to all these 30+ meds he's on, to improve his overall health. And, what I found was an advantage I hadn't even considered. Before his injury, Andrew lived to go to the gym. He loved excersise. I would go to the gym with him and would basicallly hate every minute of that stupid ellyptical. I never understood his love for it . . . but I know it existed. Since his injury, Andrew is so limited in what he can do that gives him pleasure. He's tried to play with the computer, but that laser mouse thing that sticks to his forehead frustrates him more than anything . . . plus, he doesn't really enjoy the computer (never has). He enjoys movies, but doesn't like going out to the theaters because the one time we did that . . . it was so cold in there that it caused his sinus' to drain which caused him to need suction every 10 minutes. So . . . his pleasure is limited to what I can think of that can take place at home because that's where he's most comfortable. TV, reading, visitors, and the kids . . . that's his world . . . oh yeah, and me; but could you imagine spending every moment of every day with your crazy wife . . . ugh! This place (Project Walk) would serve to provide him a place to go that he once loved. It's totally a gym atmosphere. HOW DO I GET HIM THERE????
So . . . as you can tell; my experience was good, albeit bittersweet. But, I'm not giving up . . . got my brain working overtime and I'm gonna figure this out. Even if he didn't gain one iddy biddy bit of function . . . I believe his health would improve and it would give him a piece of a world I'm sure he thought was long gone.
Hope this info is useful . . . if you have any specific questions about what I observed, don't hesitate to ask.
Joye
First of all . . . this place is strictly a gym; it is not a hospital (which I knew beforehand, just wanted to share that first). As far as the enviornment goes . . . it's clean, up-to-date, very spacious, and friendly . . . I felt very comfortable from the onset of my visit. I first met with Mr. Dardzinski, who summarized the entire program for me. He also provided me with the history of how he developed the method and the evolution of the method over the years. Short of the long . . . he used to strictly train professional athletes (from those with injuries to those needing to improve on what they had). One day, a person with SCI approached Mr. Dardzinski to "train" him in the same manner the athletes were being trained. He said that he was relunctant to do so, but "blindly" gave it a try and found that the activities he was doing with this person were giving him some return of function. It later proved to provide this person with better overall health and assisted in a substantial decreas in meds. This motivated him to pursue development of an excersise method for people with SCI and he eventually developed the "Dardzinski Method."
I won't go into the details of the method because that can be found on the Project Walk website www.projectwalk.org
After my meeting with him I was taken around the facility by a lady (Lisa) who is an advanced specialist trained in the method. She allowed me to meet some of the clients and speak with them about their experiences at Project Walk. I was also able to observe them while being trained. I then was able to wander around by myself, which gave me the opportunity to visit with some of the family members. I won't share all of the stories, but I want to tell you one thing . . . on those given days that I visited, the clients present that I spoke with only had good things to say. Every person I spoke with had some sort of restoration of function. Their injuries varied from C3 levels to the lowest L level . . . from complete to incomplete, all degrees on the Asia scale, and new injuries to injuries more than 10 years old. A couple people were already walking (before Project Walk) and were there to improve their gaits and some told me they came in with power chairs (sippin n puffin) and were now pushing manual chairs. I won't share all of their stories, but will give you an example of one . . . because I spoke with his mother at great length. I met this 15 year old boy who was injured at 14 months of age (ran over by a car). He was injured at the C4 level and was unable to move below his shoulders for approximately 9 years. He was provided some passive and occupational therapy throughout those years, but nothing intensive. He began going to Project Walk in 2005. I was there when he and his mom arrived (yesterday). I watched him come in pusing himself in a manual chair, he pulled up to a bike, locked his wheels, pushed himself up into a standing position, and then two staff members lifted up on the bike and he began peddling (on his own, not FES). He continues to gain . . . just last month he began regaining function in his right hand (got his left back a while ago). Everyone I spoke with described their health benefits since they began Project Walk. Most are off all their spasm meds, most have not had a single UTI since starting, and most have not experienced any pressure sores. In EVERY person's case of those I spoke to . . . they first began feeling sensation and each person who had any function restorated has gained from the toes up. This really confused me, because I can specifically remember being told at Craig Hospital that if anything ever comes back it will start from the top and go down . . . so they said "don't worry about the legs right now . . . work those arms."
So I (of course) asked the question . . . "If all of these people, that I am apparently witnessing to be making unbelievable gains, are doing it . . . why isn't everyone with SCI in there doing it?" You guessed it . . . MONEY. It's expensive. If you do in-house (which in my opinion is going to be the best way to get anywhere), then it costs $3,600 a month ($100/hour @ 3 days/week, 3 hours each day). There is the home-based program . . . They will train you and any family member(s) and a "hometown" therapist if you so desire for a 5 day trial week for $1,500. Then you're supposed to go home and do what they teach you 3 day/s per week. Now, in my case . . . I'd have to hire a trainer at home (cha ching), because I'm not strong or big enough to do with Andrew what I would need to. Plus, Andrew wouldn't have the benefit of the "motivational, gym-like" atmosphere. So, how do we get there? Very good question. It's kind of like getting the most beautiful Barbie as a child and being told . . . "you can't play with it honey; this is a collector's item."
And, please understand . . . I'm not looking at this place because I have convinced myself or (more importantly) Andrew that if he goes he will walk. I began this quest to find an alternative to all these 30+ meds he's on, to improve his overall health. And, what I found was an advantage I hadn't even considered. Before his injury, Andrew lived to go to the gym. He loved excersise. I would go to the gym with him and would basicallly hate every minute of that stupid ellyptical. I never understood his love for it . . . but I know it existed. Since his injury, Andrew is so limited in what he can do that gives him pleasure. He's tried to play with the computer, but that laser mouse thing that sticks to his forehead frustrates him more than anything . . . plus, he doesn't really enjoy the computer (never has). He enjoys movies, but doesn't like going out to the theaters because the one time we did that . . . it was so cold in there that it caused his sinus' to drain which caused him to need suction every 10 minutes. So . . . his pleasure is limited to what I can think of that can take place at home because that's where he's most comfortable. TV, reading, visitors, and the kids . . . that's his world . . . oh yeah, and me; but could you imagine spending every moment of every day with your crazy wife . . . ugh! This place (Project Walk) would serve to provide him a place to go that he once loved. It's totally a gym atmosphere. HOW DO I GET HIM THERE????
So . . . as you can tell; my experience was good, albeit bittersweet. But, I'm not giving up . . . got my brain working overtime and I'm gonna figure this out. Even if he didn't gain one iddy biddy bit of function . . . I believe his health would improve and it would give him a piece of a world I'm sure he thought was long gone.
Hope this info is useful . . . if you have any specific questions about what I observed, don't hesitate to ask.
Joye
hi joye my name suzanne and my boyfriend is a T 4 and when I ask if he is a complete or incomplete they hesitate Jeff's injury was in1990 before the asia chart 1992 and his spine was not severed it was twisted and bruised I say he is a incomplete I have been working with Jeff and he also has been getting sensation back from his toes up what is your knowedge of complete and incomplete I have some other stuff to share with you and the others on how he started to regain feeling I'm new to this but I will be posting a blog under this catagory to you and the others later tonight or tomarrow
QUOTE (joye @ May 6 2009, 07:44 PM)
I wanted to post some of my findings from my visit (Monday and Tuesday) to Project Walk in Carlsbad, CA. I visited the center without Andrew because I didn't want to put him through the trip if it didn't turn out to be what we thought it was going to be. I was given the opportunity to meet with the owner/developer of the method (Ted Dardzinski), staff, clients, and clients' family members.
First of all . . . this place is strictly a gym; it is not a hospital (which I knew beforehand, just wanted to share that first). As far as the enviornment goes . . . it's clean, up-to-date, very spacious, and friendly . . . I felt very comfortable from the onset of my visit. I first met with Mr. Dardzinski, who summarized the entire program for me. He also provided me with the history of how he developed the method and the evolution of the method over the years. Short of the long . . . he used to strictly train professional athletes (from those with injuries to those needing to improve on what they had). One day, a person with SCI approached Mr. Dardzinski to "train" him in the same manner the athletes were being trained. He said that he was relunctant to do so, but "blindly" gave it a try and found that the activities he was doing with this person were giving him some return of function. It later proved to provide this person with better overall health and assisted in a substantial decreas in meds. This motivated him to pursue development of an excersise method for people with SCI and he eventually developed the "Dardzinski Method."
I won't go into the details of the method because that can be found on the Project Walk website www.projectwalk.org
After my meeting with him I was taken around the facility by a lady (Lisa) who is an advanced specialist trained in the method. She allowed me to meet some of the clients and speak with them about their experiences at Project Walk. I was also able to observe them while being trained. I then was able to wander around by myself, which gave me the opportunity to visit with some of the family members. I won't share all of the stories, but I want to tell you one thing . . . on those given days that I visited, the clients present that I spoke with only had good things to say. Every person I spoke with had some sort of restoration of function. Their injuries varied from C3 levels to the lowest L level . . . from complete to incomplete, all degrees on the Asia scale, and new injuries to injuries more than 10 years old. A couple people were already walking (before Project Walk) and were there to improve their gaits and some told me they came in with power chairs (sippin n puffin) and were now pushing manual chairs. I won't share all of their stories, but will give you an example of one . . . because I spoke with his mother at great length. I met this 15 year old boy who was injured at 14 months of age (ran over by a car). He was injured at the C4 level and was unable to move below his shoulders for approximately 9 years. He was provided some passive and occupational therapy throughout those years, but nothing intensive. He began going to Project Walk in 2005. I was there when he and his mom arrived (yesterday). I watched him come in pusing himself in a manual chair, he pulled up to a bike, locked his wheels, pushed himself up into a standing position, and then two staff members lifted up on the bike and he began peddling (on his own, not FES). He continues to gain . . . just last month he began regaining function in his right hand (got his left back a while ago). Everyone I spoke with described their health benefits since they began Project Walk. Most are off all their spasm meds, most have not had a single UTI since starting, and most have not experienced any pressure sores. In EVERY person's case of those I spoke to . . . they first began feeling sensation and each person who had any function restorated has gained from the toes up. This really confused me, because I can specifically remember being told at Craig Hospital that if anything ever comes back it will start from the top and go down . . . so they said "don't worry about the legs right now . . . work those arms."
So I (of course) asked the question . . . "If all of these people, that I am apparently witnessing to be making unbelievable gains, are doing it . . . why isn't everyone with SCI in there doing it?" You guessed it . . . MONEY. It's expensive. If you do in-house (which in my opinion is going to be the best way to get anywhere), then it costs $3,600 a month ($100/hour @ 3 days/week, 3 hours each day). There is the home-based program . . . They will train you and any family member(s) and a "hometown" therapist if you so desire for a 5 day trial week for $1,500. Then you're supposed to go home and do what they teach you 3 day/s per week. Now, in my case . . . I'd have to hire a trainer at home (cha ching), because I'm not strong or big enough to do with Andrew what I would need to. Plus, Andrew wouldn't have the benefit of the "motivational, gym-like" atmosphere. So, how do we get there? Very good question. It's kind of like getting the most beautiful Barbie as a child and being told . . . "you can't play with it honey; this is a collector's item."
And, please understand . . . I'm not looking at this place because I have convinced myself or (more importantly) Andrew that if he goes he will walk. I began this quest to find an alternative to all these 30+ meds he's on, to improve his overall health. And, what I found was an advantage I hadn't even considered. Before his injury, Andrew lived to go to the gym. He loved excersise. I would go to the gym with him and would basicallly hate every minute of that stupid ellyptical. I never understood his love for it . . . but I know it existed. Since his injury, Andrew is so limited in what he can do that gives him pleasure. He's tried to play with the computer, but that laser mouse thing that sticks to his forehead frustrates him more than anything . . . plus, he doesn't really enjoy the computer (never has). He enjoys movies, but doesn't like going out to the theaters because the one time we did that . . . it was so cold in there that it caused his sinus' to drain which caused him to need suction every 10 minutes. So . . . his pleasure is limited to what I can think of that can take place at home because that's where he's most comfortable. TV, reading, visitors, and the kids . . . that's his world . . . oh yeah, and me; but could you imagine spending every moment of every day with your crazy wife . . . ugh! This place (Project Walk) would serve to provide him a place to go that he once loved. It's totally a gym atmosphere. HOW DO I GET HIM THERE????
So . . . as you can tell; my experience was good, albeit bittersweet. But, I'm not giving up . . . got my brain working overtime and I'm gonna figure this out. Even if he didn't gain one iddy biddy bit of function . . . I believe his health would improve and it would give him a piece of a world I'm sure he thought was long gone.
Hope this info is useful . . . if you have any specific questions about what I observed, don't hesitate to ask.
Joye
First of all . . . this place is strictly a gym; it is not a hospital (which I knew beforehand, just wanted to share that first). As far as the enviornment goes . . . it's clean, up-to-date, very spacious, and friendly . . . I felt very comfortable from the onset of my visit. I first met with Mr. Dardzinski, who summarized the entire program for me. He also provided me with the history of how he developed the method and the evolution of the method over the years. Short of the long . . . he used to strictly train professional athletes (from those with injuries to those needing to improve on what they had). One day, a person with SCI approached Mr. Dardzinski to "train" him in the same manner the athletes were being trained. He said that he was relunctant to do so, but "blindly" gave it a try and found that the activities he was doing with this person were giving him some return of function. It later proved to provide this person with better overall health and assisted in a substantial decreas in meds. This motivated him to pursue development of an excersise method for people with SCI and he eventually developed the "Dardzinski Method."
I won't go into the details of the method because that can be found on the Project Walk website www.projectwalk.org
After my meeting with him I was taken around the facility by a lady (Lisa) who is an advanced specialist trained in the method. She allowed me to meet some of the clients and speak with them about their experiences at Project Walk. I was also able to observe them while being trained. I then was able to wander around by myself, which gave me the opportunity to visit with some of the family members. I won't share all of the stories, but I want to tell you one thing . . . on those given days that I visited, the clients present that I spoke with only had good things to say. Every person I spoke with had some sort of restoration of function. Their injuries varied from C3 levels to the lowest L level . . . from complete to incomplete, all degrees on the Asia scale, and new injuries to injuries more than 10 years old. A couple people were already walking (before Project Walk) and were there to improve their gaits and some told me they came in with power chairs (sippin n puffin) and were now pushing manual chairs. I won't share all of their stories, but will give you an example of one . . . because I spoke with his mother at great length. I met this 15 year old boy who was injured at 14 months of age (ran over by a car). He was injured at the C4 level and was unable to move below his shoulders for approximately 9 years. He was provided some passive and occupational therapy throughout those years, but nothing intensive. He began going to Project Walk in 2005. I was there when he and his mom arrived (yesterday). I watched him come in pusing himself in a manual chair, he pulled up to a bike, locked his wheels, pushed himself up into a standing position, and then two staff members lifted up on the bike and he began peddling (on his own, not FES). He continues to gain . . . just last month he began regaining function in his right hand (got his left back a while ago). Everyone I spoke with described their health benefits since they began Project Walk. Most are off all their spasm meds, most have not had a single UTI since starting, and most have not experienced any pressure sores. In EVERY person's case of those I spoke to . . . they first began feeling sensation and each person who had any function restorated has gained from the toes up. This really confused me, because I can specifically remember being told at Craig Hospital that if anything ever comes back it will start from the top and go down . . . so they said "don't worry about the legs right now . . . work those arms."
So I (of course) asked the question . . . "If all of these people, that I am apparently witnessing to be making unbelievable gains, are doing it . . . why isn't everyone with SCI in there doing it?" You guessed it . . . MONEY. It's expensive. If you do in-house (which in my opinion is going to be the best way to get anywhere), then it costs $3,600 a month ($100/hour @ 3 days/week, 3 hours each day). There is the home-based program . . . They will train you and any family member(s) and a "hometown" therapist if you so desire for a 5 day trial week for $1,500. Then you're supposed to go home and do what they teach you 3 day/s per week. Now, in my case . . . I'd have to hire a trainer at home (cha ching), because I'm not strong or big enough to do with Andrew what I would need to. Plus, Andrew wouldn't have the benefit of the "motivational, gym-like" atmosphere. So, how do we get there? Very good question. It's kind of like getting the most beautiful Barbie as a child and being told . . . "you can't play with it honey; this is a collector's item."
And, please understand . . . I'm not looking at this place because I have convinced myself or (more importantly) Andrew that if he goes he will walk. I began this quest to find an alternative to all these 30+ meds he's on, to improve his overall health. And, what I found was an advantage I hadn't even considered. Before his injury, Andrew lived to go to the gym. He loved excersise. I would go to the gym with him and would basicallly hate every minute of that stupid ellyptical. I never understood his love for it . . . but I know it existed. Since his injury, Andrew is so limited in what he can do that gives him pleasure. He's tried to play with the computer, but that laser mouse thing that sticks to his forehead frustrates him more than anything . . . plus, he doesn't really enjoy the computer (never has). He enjoys movies, but doesn't like going out to the theaters because the one time we did that . . . it was so cold in there that it caused his sinus' to drain which caused him to need suction every 10 minutes. So . . . his pleasure is limited to what I can think of that can take place at home because that's where he's most comfortable. TV, reading, visitors, and the kids . . . that's his world . . . oh yeah, and me; but could you imagine spending every moment of every day with your crazy wife . . . ugh! This place (Project Walk) would serve to provide him a place to go that he once loved. It's totally a gym atmosphere. HOW DO I GET HIM THERE????
So . . . as you can tell; my experience was good, albeit bittersweet. But, I'm not giving up . . . got my brain working overtime and I'm gonna figure this out. Even if he didn't gain one iddy biddy bit of function . . . I believe his health would improve and it would give him a piece of a world I'm sure he thought was long gone.
Hope this info is useful . . . if you have any specific questions about what I observed, don't hesitate to ask.
Joye
Hi Joye,
My name is Danny and I'm new to this web site. I joined this site because I am actively trying to get a Project Walk program started in Oklahoma. My wife's cousin's son had a surfing accident in August of 2007, C5 complete. He began PW about 1.5 years ago and has had some amazing results. If you would like to email me I could give you her email address. Brian her son does the 3 hours 3 times a week and you're right it is expensive. I think she could give you some ideas to get your son there. My email is okgymboy@aol.com if you are interested. Take care. Danny
QUOTE (joye @ May 6 2009, 08:44 PM)
I wanted to post some of my findings from my visit (Monday and Tuesday) to Project Walk in Carlsbad, CA. I visited the center without Andrew because I didn't want to put him through the trip if it didn't turn out to be what we thought it was going to be. I was given the opportunity to meet with the owner/developer of the method (Ted Dardzinski), staff, clients, and clients' family members.
First of all . . . this place is strictly a gym; it is not a hospital (which I knew beforehand, just wanted to share that first). As far as the enviornment goes . . . it's clean, up-to-date, very spacious, and friendly . . . I felt very comfortable from the onset of my visit. I first met with Mr. Dardzinski, who summarized the entire program for me. He also provided me with the history of how he developed the method and the evolution of the method over the years. Short of the long . . . he used to strictly train professional athletes (from those with injuries to those needing to improve on what they had). One day, a person with SCI approached Mr. Dardzinski to "train" him in the same manner the athletes were being trained. He said that he was relunctant to do so, but "blindly" gave it a try and found that the activities he was doing with this person were giving him some return of function. It later proved to provide this person with better overall health and assisted in a substantial decreas in meds. This motivated him to pursue development of an excersise method for people with SCI and he eventually developed the "Dardzinski Method."
I won't go into the details of the method because that can be found on the Project Walk website www.projectwalk.org
After my meeting with him I was taken around the facility by a lady (Lisa) who is an advanced specialist trained in the method. She allowed me to meet some of the clients and speak with them about their experiences at Project Walk. I was also able to observe them while being trained. I then was able to wander around by myself, which gave me the opportunity to visit with some of the family members. I won't share all of the stories, but I want to tell you one thing . . . on those given days that I visited, the clients present that I spoke with only had good things to say. Every person I spoke with had some sort of restoration of function. Their injuries varied from C3 levels to the lowest L level . . . from complete to incomplete, all degrees on the Asia scale, and new injuries to injuries more than 10 years old. A couple people were already walking (before Project Walk) and were there to improve their gaits and some told me they came in with power chairs (sippin n puffin) and were now pushing manual chairs. I won't share all of their stories, but will give you an example of one . . . because I spoke with his mother at great length. I met this 15 year old boy who was injured at 14 months of age (ran over by a car). He was injured at the C4 level and was unable to move below his shoulders for approximately 9 years. He was provided some passive and occupational therapy throughout those years, but nothing intensive. He began going to Project Walk in 2005. I was there when he and his mom arrived (yesterday). I watched him come in pusing himself in a manual chair, he pulled up to a bike, locked his wheels, pushed himself up into a standing position, and then two staff members lifted up on the bike and he began peddling (on his own, not FES). He continues to gain . . . just last month he began regaining function in his right hand (got his left back a while ago). Everyone I spoke with described their health benefits since they began Project Walk. Most are off all their spasm meds, most have not had a single UTI since starting, and most have not experienced any pressure sores. In EVERY person's case of those I spoke to . . . they first began feeling sensation and each person who had any function restorated has gained from the toes up. This really confused me, because I can specifically remember being told at Craig Hospital that if anything ever comes back it will start from the top and go down . . . so they said "don't worry about the legs right now . . . work those arms."
So I (of course) asked the question . . . "If all of these people, that I am apparently witnessing to be making unbelievable gains, are doing it . . . why isn't everyone with SCI in there doing it?" You guessed it . . . MONEY. It's expensive. If you do in-house (which in my opinion is going to be the best way to get anywhere), then it costs $3,600 a month ($100/hour @ 3 days/week, 3 hours each day). There is the home-based program . . . They will train you and any family member(s) and a "hometown" therapist if you so desire for a 5 day trial week for $1,500. Then you're supposed to go home and do what they teach you 3 day/s per week. Now, in my case . . . I'd have to hire a trainer at home (cha ching), because I'm not strong or big enough to do with Andrew what I would need to. Plus, Andrew wouldn't have the benefit of the "motivational, gym-like" atmosphere. So, how do we get there? Very good question. It's kind of like getting the most beautiful Barbie as a child and being told . . . "you can't play with it honey; this is a collector's item."
And, please understand . . . I'm not looking at this place because I have convinced myself or (more importantly) Andrew that if he goes he will walk. I began this quest to find an alternative to all these 30+ meds he's on, to improve his overall health. And, what I found was an advantage I hadn't even considered. Before his injury, Andrew lived to go to the gym. He loved excersise. I would go to the gym with him and would basicallly hate every minute of that stupid ellyptical. I never understood his love for it . . . but I know it existed. Since his injury, Andrew is so limited in what he can do that gives him pleasure. He's tried to play with the computer, but that laser mouse thing that sticks to his forehead frustrates him more than anything . . . plus, he doesn't really enjoy the computer (never has). He enjoys movies, but doesn't like going out to the theaters because the one time we did that . . . it was so cold in there that it caused his sinus' to drain which caused him to need suction every 10 minutes. So . . . his pleasure is limited to what I can think of that can take place at home because that's where he's most comfortable. TV, reading, visitors, and the kids . . . that's his world . . . oh yeah, and me; but could you imagine spending every moment of every day with your crazy wife . . . ugh! This place (Project Walk) would serve to provide him a place to go that he once loved. It's totally a gym atmosphere. HOW DO I GET HIM THERE????
So . . . as you can tell; my experience was good, albeit bittersweet. But, I'm not giving up . . . got my brain working overtime and I'm gonna figure this out. Even if he didn't gain one iddy biddy bit of function . . . I believe his health would improve and it would give him a piece of a world I'm sure he thought was long gone.
Hope this info is useful . . . if you have any specific questions about what I observed, don't hesitate to ask.
Joye
First of all . . . this place is strictly a gym; it is not a hospital (which I knew beforehand, just wanted to share that first). As far as the enviornment goes . . . it's clean, up-to-date, very spacious, and friendly . . . I felt very comfortable from the onset of my visit. I first met with Mr. Dardzinski, who summarized the entire program for me. He also provided me with the history of how he developed the method and the evolution of the method over the years. Short of the long . . . he used to strictly train professional athletes (from those with injuries to those needing to improve on what they had). One day, a person with SCI approached Mr. Dardzinski to "train" him in the same manner the athletes were being trained. He said that he was relunctant to do so, but "blindly" gave it a try and found that the activities he was doing with this person were giving him some return of function. It later proved to provide this person with better overall health and assisted in a substantial decreas in meds. This motivated him to pursue development of an excersise method for people with SCI and he eventually developed the "Dardzinski Method."
I won't go into the details of the method because that can be found on the Project Walk website www.projectwalk.org
After my meeting with him I was taken around the facility by a lady (Lisa) who is an advanced specialist trained in the method. She allowed me to meet some of the clients and speak with them about their experiences at Project Walk. I was also able to observe them while being trained. I then was able to wander around by myself, which gave me the opportunity to visit with some of the family members. I won't share all of the stories, but I want to tell you one thing . . . on those given days that I visited, the clients present that I spoke with only had good things to say. Every person I spoke with had some sort of restoration of function. Their injuries varied from C3 levels to the lowest L level . . . from complete to incomplete, all degrees on the Asia scale, and new injuries to injuries more than 10 years old. A couple people were already walking (before Project Walk) and were there to improve their gaits and some told me they came in with power chairs (sippin n puffin) and were now pushing manual chairs. I won't share all of their stories, but will give you an example of one . . . because I spoke with his mother at great length. I met this 15 year old boy who was injured at 14 months of age (ran over by a car). He was injured at the C4 level and was unable to move below his shoulders for approximately 9 years. He was provided some passive and occupational therapy throughout those years, but nothing intensive. He began going to Project Walk in 2005. I was there when he and his mom arrived (yesterday). I watched him come in pusing himself in a manual chair, he pulled up to a bike, locked his wheels, pushed himself up into a standing position, and then two staff members lifted up on the bike and he began peddling (on his own, not FES). He continues to gain . . . just last month he began regaining function in his right hand (got his left back a while ago). Everyone I spoke with described their health benefits since they began Project Walk. Most are off all their spasm meds, most have not had a single UTI since starting, and most have not experienced any pressure sores. In EVERY person's case of those I spoke to . . . they first began feeling sensation and each person who had any function restorated has gained from the toes up. This really confused me, because I can specifically remember being told at Craig Hospital that if anything ever comes back it will start from the top and go down . . . so they said "don't worry about the legs right now . . . work those arms."
So I (of course) asked the question . . . "If all of these people, that I am apparently witnessing to be making unbelievable gains, are doing it . . . why isn't everyone with SCI in there doing it?" You guessed it . . . MONEY. It's expensive. If you do in-house (which in my opinion is going to be the best way to get anywhere), then it costs $3,600 a month ($100/hour @ 3 days/week, 3 hours each day). There is the home-based program . . . They will train you and any family member(s) and a "hometown" therapist if you so desire for a 5 day trial week for $1,500. Then you're supposed to go home and do what they teach you 3 day/s per week. Now, in my case . . . I'd have to hire a trainer at home (cha ching), because I'm not strong or big enough to do with Andrew what I would need to. Plus, Andrew wouldn't have the benefit of the "motivational, gym-like" atmosphere. So, how do we get there? Very good question. It's kind of like getting the most beautiful Barbie as a child and being told . . . "you can't play with it honey; this is a collector's item."
And, please understand . . . I'm not looking at this place because I have convinced myself or (more importantly) Andrew that if he goes he will walk. I began this quest to find an alternative to all these 30+ meds he's on, to improve his overall health. And, what I found was an advantage I hadn't even considered. Before his injury, Andrew lived to go to the gym. He loved excersise. I would go to the gym with him and would basicallly hate every minute of that stupid ellyptical. I never understood his love for it . . . but I know it existed. Since his injury, Andrew is so limited in what he can do that gives him pleasure. He's tried to play with the computer, but that laser mouse thing that sticks to his forehead frustrates him more than anything . . . plus, he doesn't really enjoy the computer (never has). He enjoys movies, but doesn't like going out to the theaters because the one time we did that . . . it was so cold in there that it caused his sinus' to drain which caused him to need suction every 10 minutes. So . . . his pleasure is limited to what I can think of that can take place at home because that's where he's most comfortable. TV, reading, visitors, and the kids . . . that's his world . . . oh yeah, and me; but could you imagine spending every moment of every day with your crazy wife . . . ugh! This place (Project Walk) would serve to provide him a place to go that he once loved. It's totally a gym atmosphere. HOW DO I GET HIM THERE????
So . . . as you can tell; my experience was good, albeit bittersweet. But, I'm not giving up . . . got my brain working overtime and I'm gonna figure this out. Even if he didn't gain one iddy biddy bit of function . . . I believe his health would improve and it would give him a piece of a world I'm sure he thought was long gone.
Hope this info is useful . . . if you have any specific questions about what I observed, don't hesitate to ask.
Joye
I posted recently (Simon removed it) that "Devices and "gadgets" such as the walke aid, baclofen pump, stim bike (purchased&used for/in many facilities), etc are all very costly 'band-aid' methods that temporarily help symptoms, at best. I'm sorry but to me the baclofen pump is a drug and like any other, its only a matter of time before your body needs stronger doses and ultimately gets immune. They do not address the cause especially, of what SCI individuals face... " The Project Walk seems legit and it isn't for those hoping/looking for a cure. The individual will get out what they put in to the program (extreme & consistent effort equals results). Nobody (unless teleported) ever got to the top of a staircase without climbing steps (goal). You may have skip one or two but it requires effort to get to the top. Project Walk is one good strategy but phases 4 and 5 are hard to do if phases 1-3 is unable to overcome/do.
I have heard of Project walk and have done my research... for the most part I have heard nothing but POSITIVE feedback from people that have actually been. I have heard a couple of stories where they have been to Project walk and came back with the same results. However their mindset was completely different as far as being more positive about life in general.
Of course they were not happy about spending so much money!
In regards to complete or incomplete -- from day one of my accident I was "labels" a C1 C2 COMPLETE vent dependent quadriplegic and would never regain any type of function/sensation below my level of injury. I am no longer on a ventilator and have been reclassified as a C-5 incomplete. I'm actually looking into going back to physical therapy to strengthen the muscles that are working! I was very tempted to fly to Project walk but like you said MONEY BECOMES AN ISSUE!
I started regaining movement about a month or two after my accident (shoulders first) but my legs/toes were the first thing to come back after that! I think working out your body altogether will help you out healthwise... as it does for able-bodied people... what's my point??
You never know what's going to happen with a spinal cord injury, plain and simple, everybody is different and reacts in different ways. Just keep a positive attitude and it will take you and Andrew places you would have never thought possible... with or without a doctor's classification
good luck and if you have any questions let me know!
Of course they were not happy about spending so much money!
In regards to complete or incomplete -- from day one of my accident I was "labels" a C1 C2 COMPLETE vent dependent quadriplegic and would never regain any type of function/sensation below my level of injury. I am no longer on a ventilator and have been reclassified as a C-5 incomplete. I'm actually looking into going back to physical therapy to strengthen the muscles that are working! I was very tempted to fly to Project walk but like you said MONEY BECOMES AN ISSUE!
I started regaining movement about a month or two after my accident (shoulders first) but my legs/toes were the first thing to come back after that! I think working out your body altogether will help you out healthwise... as it does for able-bodied people... what's my point??
You never know what's going to happen with a spinal cord injury, plain and simple, everybody is different and reacts in different ways. Just keep a positive attitude and it will take you and Andrew places you would have never thought possible... with or without a doctor's classification
good luck and if you have any questions let me know!
QUOTE (Texas Angel Ang @ Jul 24 2009, 07:35 PM)
I have heard of Project walk and have done my research... for the most part I have heard nothing but POSITIVE feedback from people that have actually been. I have heard a couple of stories where they have been to Project walk and came back with the same results. However their mindset was completely different as far as being more positive about life in general.
Of course they were not happy about spending so much money!
In regards to complete or incomplete -- from day one of my accident I was "labels" a C1 C2 COMPLETE vent dependent quadriplegic and would never regain any type of function/sensation below my level of injury. I am no longer on a ventilator and have been reclassified as a C-5 incomplete. I'm actually looking into going back to physical therapy to strengthen the muscles that are working! I was very tempted to fly to Project walk but like you said MONEY BECOMES AN ISSUE!
I started regaining movement about a month or two after my accident (shoulders first) but my legs/toes were the first thing to come back after that! I think working out your body altogether will help you out healthwise... as it does for able-bodied people... what's my point??
You never know what's going to happen with a spinal cord injury, plain and simple, everybody is different and reacts in different ways. Just keep a positive attitude and it will take you and Andrew places you would have never thought possible... with or without a doctor's classification
good luck and if you have any questions let me know!
Of course they were not happy about spending so much money!
In regards to complete or incomplete -- from day one of my accident I was "labels" a C1 C2 COMPLETE vent dependent quadriplegic and would never regain any type of function/sensation below my level of injury. I am no longer on a ventilator and have been reclassified as a C-5 incomplete. I'm actually looking into going back to physical therapy to strengthen the muscles that are working! I was very tempted to fly to Project walk but like you said MONEY BECOMES AN ISSUE!
I started regaining movement about a month or two after my accident (shoulders first) but my legs/toes were the first thing to come back after that! I think working out your body altogether will help you out healthwise... as it does for able-bodied people... what's my point??
You never know what's going to happen with a spinal cord injury, plain and simple, everybody is different and reacts in different ways. Just keep a positive attitude and it will take you and Andrew places you would have never thought possible... with or without a doctor's classification
good luck and if you have any questions let me know!
The ability to move my toes on my feet was the first thing to come back. Also not ever being trached and being able to breathe on my own because I had collapsed lungs. But it's part of the process with hypothermia called pulmonary cooling. None of my docs said that this is what took place because they were not aware of it as the cause, they focused on the symptoms; not the cause. As does project walk, it focuses and deals with the cause and not symptoms. No one strategy (has yet been invented) that will allow one to recover 100% or as close to it as possible. It depends on what stage one is at, it will determine what they can do. In addition, project walk states it gives you the format to walk, the ability depends on the individuals' committment/drive to work on overcoming.
QUOTE (McCann @ Jul 25 2009, 06:34 PM)
No one strategy (has yet been invented) that will allow one to recover 100% or as close to it as possible. It depends on what stage one is at, it will determine what they can do.
This part is ok, if you mean that the damage to your body will limit how much you can adapt, as for instance someone without a rectum will always shit in a bag.
But this next bit is (without the caveat above) simply ridiculous:
QUOTE
project walk states it gives you the format to walk, the ability depends on the individuals' committment/drive to work on overcoming.
I am a t4 complete. That is the nerves below t4 are not connected to my brain. This is not a maybe. I was broken in two, and the way the reconstruction was done, the spine is literally filled in with bone chips from my hip. Therefore, not only is the chord broken, but there is no way it can reconnect.
Now.
There is no, absolutely no way, that anybody can give me the "format to walk" (unless you just mean binding up my whole lower body so it doesn.t collapse, and then getting me hopping along on my arms. I admit this can be fun, but it does not qualify as "walking".
In any case, I am not limited simply by "committment/drive to work on overcoming".
I fully agree that people should be getting out and working out. The more you do, the better you will feel. But calling this thing "project walk" seems to be just on the edge of an ethical cliff.
As for the money, I don't think that will be a problem, because all kinds of intelligent people in gyms are capable of providing similar results. That is the nature of science. Science is "repeatable", meaning that if it works, anybody can do it.
Therefore, without breaking any copyrights it will be possible to devise exercises that work just as well.
Let us then, talk about the specifics.
What EXACTLY do these people do. What exercises. What routines. What machines.
I'm all ears.
Best Regards,
Gordon
QUOTE (gordonr @ Jul 26 2009, 07:23 PM)
QUOTE (McCann @ Jul 25 2009, 06:34 PM)
No one strategy (has yet been invented) that will allow one to recover 100% or as close to it as possible. It depends on what stage one is at, it will determine what they can do.
This part is ok, if you mean that the damage to your body will limit how much you can adapt, as for instance someone without a rectum will always shit in a bag.
But this next bit is (without the caveat above) simply ridiculous:
QUOTE
project walk states it gives you the format to walk, the ability depends on the individuals' committment/drive to work on overcoming.
I am a t4 complete. That is the nerves below t4 are not connected to my brain. This is not a maybe. I was broken in two, and the way the reconstruction was done, the spine is literally filled in with bone chips from my hip. Therefore, not only is the chord broken, but there is no way it can reconnect.
Now.
There is no, absolutely no way, that anybody can give me the "format to walk" (unless you just mean binding up my whole lower body so it doesn.t collapse, and then getting me hopping along on my arms. I admit this can be fun, but it does not qualify as "walking".
In any case, I am not limited simply by "committment/drive to work on overcoming".
I fully agree that people should be getting out and working out. The more you do, the better you will feel. But calling this thing "project walk" seems to be just on the edge of an ethical cliff.
As for the money, I don't think that will be a problem, because all kinds of intelligent people in gyms are capable of providing similar results. That is the nature of science. Science is "repeatable", meaning that if it works, anybody can do it.
Therefore, without breaking any copyrights it will be possible to devise exercises that work just as well.
Let us then, talk about the specifics.
What EXACTLY do these people do. What exercises. What routines. What machines.
I'm all ears.
Best Regards,
Gordon
Obviously if there is a severed connection the idea of walking seems to entail just 'slightly' a bit more, as in your case and similar ones. Even if the "cure" to reconnect is "invented" it still will take hard work to get back functionality. However drive and commitment one also must do so as to not regress. Hence I wrote it depends on what stage one is at. Unless one spends an extreme amount of time researching about the body, workouts, and much more, it's not info that can be magically gotten from one of the "many intelligent" trainers at a gym. Yes science is supposed to be methodologically consistent or empirical data should be constant but don't forget the numerous variables that are already in play and have yet to come into play, differing individual to individual (due to severed connection or not, lifestyle habits, etc). Copyrights are not necessary to devise exercises that work as well. Anyone should be able to go and ask "intelligent trainers" at their local gym and get answers. Oh, but before they do ask a trainer, keep in mind to ask where and how they got certified? Was it via some simple training classes? Do they have extensive experience? And most importantly, do they know how SCI affected individuals bodies react/work? If you read about project walk carefully you would see equipment used, their philosophy, and much more of the "hidden information." One problem I see in the medical/rehab community is that they run/jump to many of these devices and gadgets (baclofen pump, walke aide, etc) that address symptoms, not causes. Even if you were told the program the biggest problem faced would be discerning and transitioning of your status during the process (unless you are quite familiar with anatomy, workouts, and assessing your status level). And when the "cure" for those with severed connections is made/invented, then they too should probably follow a format to walk if/when possible. You say it's not about committment/dive to overcoming and correct you are in some/few regards, yet (in jokingly manner) ask for specifics. When if one reads carefully they can get much information about all questions except for the "how."
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