I've just come back from the hospital after discussing the results of my latest MRI scan.

Seems that the disc between L4 / L5 is wearing out which might be causing much pain (on top of all the other things that are causing much pain - but hell!! This ones treatable!)

The doctor now has me on the waiting list for an epidural for pain management. We kinda hope it'll ease the pain everywhere else too (well one can dream)

Useful looking link

Has anyone had one? What should I be expecting? I've been told five days complete rest for it to "do it's thing" (agh!! Mummy wants me to move back in with them.... noooo!!!!! I just can't drink that much tea!)

Spill your wisdom!!

Had one a couple of weeks ago. Not pleasant but nothing horrific. At least it's behind your back so you can't see what's going on!

The result? Aching at the site of the jab about five hours after when the local wore off. Then the anaesthetic in the epidural kicked in and relatively pain-free for three or four days. Then -- back to normal.

On the plus side, nobody said anything about resting for five days - just to rest for the day of the jab, but not to lift anything heavy for a few days, and for the same period, not to drive if it was uncomfortable.

I honestly can't say I've ever spoken to anyone who gained long-term benefit from lumbar epidurals, but the docs all seem to like to try them for some reason (probably recommended by NICE because it's cheap).

Whoops, my cynicism showed for a second there!

Personally Id kiss anyone who gave me one.... an epidural that is!! ha ha!!
Really Id just love a couple of pain free days as most meds give me little in the way of relief at all, and I dont want to end up like Michael Jackson!

Funnily enough Ive always found a lot of reluctance to give me an epidural. Im about to have my 4th child and have begged for epidurals, althoguh I know no one is at all keen on doing it, they seem to be worried that they would cause further problems at a higher spot up my spine. so who knows but I hope it works for you and maybe Ill just try to get someone to try it out on m e sometime!

I've had two, one at L4 and one at L5. Neither worked for me.

I wish you better luck!

One epidural and two nerve blocks in the last two months. The nerve blocks didn't seem any different than the epidural,, maybe the medication used is different..??

No relief from any of them. I go back next week to discuss other options. My instructions were to not drive or lift anything for 24 hours,,,, same all three times.

Hope it does more for you than it did for me.
ed

Cheers.

I'm not sure where the nurse got the five days from - I've not found anywhere that mentions the five day thing. Perhaps she knows my mum and has had words mentioned that I never visit her anymore?

Everywhere I've looked mentions the 50/50 chance of it working - which to be honest doesn't sound all that great! But hell what have I to loose? (Except a few hairs as tomorrow the boss will be wanting to know what's going on)

I really hope you all get some relief soon - try cider. Works here!!

Make sure you are not allergic to steroids. I was but didn't know so I had a really bad reaction. Did you know that epidural's can cause Arachnoiditis? Also, it's is also likely another cause of epidural fibrosis. That's why they a pulling back the use of it on pregnant women during child birth, it can lead to Arachnoiditis and trust me then it turns into chronic pain for the rest of your life there is no remedy out there for that one.

I didn't get it from child birth. both of mine were natural, but over a year ago I had a laminectomy done and they used depo-medrol over my never's that was inflamed with both dr.'s knowing I was allergic to steroids and then the final toping to the sundae was that 2 day later I had a tear in the spinal cord and they had to reopen it, now I can barely walk I have to use a scooter to get around and am alike most on this site in 24/7 in chronic pain. They can't seem to find a pain med that will help.

Just look up the procedure on the net and take time to look at the down side of things, and if your doctor tells you that it is one in a million that is BS I have never one a lottery and I didn't think I entered into this one.

Don't mean to sound like a downer either way good luck.

Nipper

Interesting, thanks for this info, explains why no one wants to give me an epidural during child birth.

Arachnoiditis??????? Isn't that something you get from invading alien spiders??? Where's John Goodman when you need him???


Sorry,,, couldn't help myself.... Some of the time, I find that humor is helpful... You will have to decide what you find funny.
ed

I had one for a couple of months after my injury started to heal and they didn't want me to move and for extra pain relief. The effect felt a lot like paraplegia being pretty numb from the site down and almost unable to move. I used to wake up screaming and think my genitals and legs had been removed because I'd reach down to scratch and feel nothing there. I thought everything was replaced with plastic although that was the morphine hallucinations.

To be honest I think it helped with pain but not extreme pain and I ended up getting pressure sores as I couldn't feel the pain of them starting. They may help but while the epidural is in you aren't supposed to move too much. They can also introduce infection to your spinal cord and cause other complications. Just make sure you ask them about all the possible side effects so you are well informed.

That sounds like an epidural nerve block where they leave a cannula in place in your spinal canal and drip or pump stuff in over a prolonged time. Different thing. I had one of those during one of my knee surgeries when I was AB. For days afterwards I had the same reaction as you and total loss of bladder control. Fortunately it came back!

What we're discussing is a single injection of a mixture of anaesthetic and steroid into the epidural cavity to treat localised inflammation and give some pain relief. It's done as an outpatient or as a day patient in the UK.

I don't understand about the epidural and childbirth. I am about to have baby #6 on July 28th (unless he comes sooner) and the OB says that I must have an epidural to help keep my whole system running smooth like it should. He is adament about it. This is my first baby being paralyzed so it is a whole new experience for me. Do you think it is the difference in USA vs. England treatment?

Only time I've had them were to have my C'sections.......but I can say those are the only times I've been fully conscious & NOT felt pain. I was with Lucy.....practically wanted to kiss the anesthesiologist. Tried seeing if they'd let me take it home......no such luck. I did have the same conversation though with my pain management dr. & it was something we were considering; the drawbacks to the epidural are you can cause nerve damage (there are people who were just fine up until they had to have a spinal tap or epidural for some reason), can cause infection (there is a tube sticking into the spine & so if you were to get any bacteria in there it would have an on-ramp to the central nervous system highway.....the fluid in your spine & brain is all connected). Those were the 2 reasons my pain management dr. hadn't set me up with one. But then again I can get an infection by looking at a picture of a bacteria........aint being diabetic great? ;)

Not sure if the actual topic is named correctly then.

An epidural, or epidural anaesthaesia which is what I had, delivers continuous pain relief to the lower part of your body while allowing you to remain fully conscious. Medication is delivered through a very thin, flexible, hollow tube that's inserted into the epidural space just outside the membrane that surrounds your spine. The medication is usually a combination of a local anaesthetic and a narcotic. Local anaesthetics block sensations of pain, touch, movement, and temperature, and narcotics blunt pain without affecting your ability to move your legs. Used together, they provide good pain relief with less loss of sensation in your legs and at a lower total dose than you'd need with just one or the other. Perhaps my existing nerve damage made it harder for me to move and feel my legs along with the fact they tied my arms and legs down. Not in a kinky way though unfortunately.

A spinal block is delivered directly into the spinal fluid (and not into the space surrounding your spine), and it's a one-time injection rather than a continuous feed through a catheter. As a result, relief is rapid and complete but lasts only a few hours.

What may be being discussed on here seems to be an epidural injection, or epidural steroid injection (ESI). It is a common type of spinal injection. An ESI is often referred to more generally as nerve block or simply a block. An epidural steroid injection is an injection of a long lasting steroid combined with a local anesthetic into the epidural space. The medication travels up and down the epidural space to coat the spinal nerves and the facet joints near the area of the injection. I found more info at : http://www.spine-health.com/treatment/inje...in-and-sciatica According to some sites I visited, it only works in around 50% of cases anyway so I suppose the risks versus relief possibilities should be investigated thoroughly.

I have always disliked steroids because of their side effects but I suppose if the pain was severe enough I would consider them.

No problem I heard from one woman that they call us SPIDER WOMEN!!! So be were of the young ladies that walk life old ones, ya never know which one is going to get you!!!!

Nipper

Just google or what ever search engine you have and they have done studies especially in England that explains why epidural's are so dangerous especially for women whom have epidural's during child birth. The disease can cripple you with non stop pain and there is no cure for it, just changing meds to try and fine the one that will give you just a little less pain.

I am telling my daughter that the next baby she has she is not going to have and epidural the last one hurt her for a couple of months after words, to me that's a sign that she has had one too many.

Good luck with the birth and I hope it's good and healthy and like all babies adorable.

Nipper

I have a website that you can look into regarding Arachnoiditis it's www.cofwa.org. it explains what this disease is and how you can get it and how most doctor's especially in the U.S. do not like to report it due to the fact they have created it.

Hope this helps anyone whom may have question's regarding all types of epidural's and this ugly ass disease. I have advance part of the disease because some a-hole of a doctor screwed up when I had a spinal cord leak and left it for 3 days w/o fixing it, and my new doctor keeps asking whom the hell did the epidural on me, when I start telling him he stops and says never mine and that's it. But I know he use to work with this factory of doctors and left them, so it's one doctor looking after the other.

Nipper

I walk very slowy and unsteady with crutches.

Had a nerve root block done 4 weeks ago to deal with pain from a degenerated disc with a bulge at L5/S1 and that had a herniation before that was operated. I have 2 pain issues, one is what I call a regular pain and the other is a burning pain down my right leg which increases the more I move around.

The nerve root block worked for the regular pain for abt 2 weeks but the burning pain got much worse. The for me more disturbing effect was that my right leg developed a tendency to collapse and I now have to be extemely careful when I walk as I have no balance. The result was that one time I did not watch it, had a fall and had some difficulty so get up of the floor again.

Another effect was that whenever I lifted my leg to take a step it went into a spasm which is also something I had never experienced before.

Nerve Root Block has not worked for me and I now have to convince my neuro surgeon to explore other ways as my pain and mobility problems are getting worse.

I had a spec scan done along with a MRI w&wo contrast and this was ordered my my neurosurgeon. When I found out about the Arachnoiditis I was having exstreme chronic pain not just at the original op site but down both my legs from the front of the thy's to the back of my legs to my toes and that was in Septemberish I also had no balance was prone to fall even using a cane and my legs would give out.

Now 10 mos. later they cannot find a med the will at least cut my pain by 50%, there are days and weeks that I just want to kill myself due to the pain. Both legs and the bottom of my feet are that exstremely painful numb, my back feels like it's going to breake in half, best of all is due to the meds they have tried I have very dried eyes and my vision is soo blurred that with my glasses I can hardly see what the hell I am typing right now.

So in the log run see a neurosurgeon have at least the mri with and without contrast and hopefully it's just a pinch nearve.

Best of luck.

Nipper

That's the one it seems (I was just told "epidural" when I was offered it - posh names came later after I posted this thread!).

Booked in for the 17th August. Hell what have I to loose??!!

I've been told again to have the five days off work, two weeks with no lifting etc...

Sorry running out of energy to respond further but just thought you ought know. Cheers for the stories and information!!

LMAO That's my birthday.....like THE day.

Cool!! Well here's hoping I'm back in time for cake!!

Good luck for tomorrow Clara.

Good memory Greybeard!

Hope the procedure provides you with some relief Clara.

hahaha - Only had to scroll a couple of messages up to spot the date My memory's crap!

Cheers! Only a few hours now....


And Happy Birthday wheeliebear75!

Apart from the local anaesthetic not working / working very little the epidural went very well I'm told (it's not bravery when you tell the doctor to carry on - it's stupidity). I developed a huge red rash type inflammation thing appearing over my rump / back and specifically over one muscle that kept going into spasm every time the doctor moved the needles but the doctor didn't seem to think that anything to worry about. The nurse was certainly impressed by it. All observations were within normal although I did go a few "funny colours".

Since the procedure (yesterday afternoon 16:30ish) I've had a shocking headache when I try to get vertical - even now I can barely sit up without wanting to vomit / pass out / a mixture of the two (sexy no?) and after a few minutes it's almost impossible to function upright. This is being treated with "lots of fluid" as nurse instructed. Of course lots of fluid means lots of having to get up to raid the bathroom which means a shocking headache. Repeat with more fluid intake until the vicious circle begins once more and you eventually run out of toilet roll.

The back itself is not happy - really amazingly not happy. My normal pain killers may as well be M & Ms (not the blue ones though) and no matter how I try and position myself it isn't satisfied. Heat packs, cold packs, TENS machines... nothing is providing any relief.

For those of you who this worked for - how soon did you get any relief?

Sweet dreams everyone.

The headache continues leaving me unable to do most things and I was so proud of myself that I was able to microwave some beans last night (first meal since Monday)

Having sought advice from the doctors they.... want me to make my own way there to see them today!! How when I can't sit up for more than a few minutes I have no idea and apparently neither do they. Because my records do not specify some magical status I am not elligable for a home visit....

We will leave the rant about incompetent doctors for later as a friend (former nurse who is more than clued up with what goes wrong with my body) is taking me there (thank goodness for reclining seats!)

Til then I am carrying on the drinking of large quantities of fluid as I have no idea what to do.

The back doesn't seem to be getting any benefits from the procedure either (in fact it seems to be getting worse but that might be because I am struggling to do my physio every day to the same rigger as before!).

Wanted: new spine.
Can swap for chocolate teapot of a doctor.

Sorry it's not working out for you.

Hope you get some relief soon.

Caffeine is supposed to be good for headaches from epidurals, lumbar puncture etc, try something like pro plus tablets or a lot of coffee

So sorry to hear you are having such a bad time. Give your doc a hard time.

Wish you better. Have one of these

thnanks wonderful


going back into hospital for a blood patch or two...

Clara,just spotted this thread......You nevr mentioned any of this in our pm's?
Problem shared...... Like others, I have been here oo as you know, like others, I had no releif from the epi's either, both of them,nor the bi lateral nerve blocks, steroids etc.....

Got me worried gal, you have.
x

See this for info pamphlet on blood patches.
http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/docs/hesa.pdf

Good luck, Clara.

Clara,
will be keeping you in my thoughts.

here's a gentle hug for you

-Barb

Back.
Doctors don't want to perform the blood patch so I am to remain staring at the ceiling until all is well again...

... I couldn't cope with a few more days listening to all of those other seriously ill people all night when I feel reasonably fine so long as I don't have to sit up!

Okay so I lie, I couldn't cope with not being allowed the pain killers for FOUR hours because the nurses elbows were too deep in old ladies who didn't know where they were to dish out the meds.

I feel AWFUL. Good night all!

Seriously Clara, try the pro plus, it could be well worth the missed night sleep. However, it may not work in which case you're in the "well you never know until you try" camp. I hate so many doctors. Sending you all my best wishes, loves n hugs

Sorry my mind isn't working - pro plus. Is that the caffeine type stuff? I'm not sure my brain can cope with much more stimulants!

I'm currently on:

Pregablin (Lyrica) 100 mg x 3 a day
Diclofenac sodium 75mg x 2 a day
Morphine Sulphate (oramorph) 5mg x every two hours as needed
Buscopan 10 mg x 2 off no more than 6 times a day (to balance out the morphine side effects)

Hopefully they'll sort themselves out. Right now I *seriously* need a shower... wish me luck!

Hi Clara

Sorry to hear you are not doing so good. I know what you mean about nurses being busy with more seriously ill patients. When I was in hospital a few weeks back, there were a couple of old guys that neede a lot more attention than yours truly, which meant a disturbed sleep during the night. That was a hard 4 days. My back and my neck was agony yesterday, but it seems to have eased today. I'm blaming tha driving of my truck on Friday for it. Typical stubborn man, eh? Maybe I'm not quite as strong as I thought.

Hope you get better soon, have one of these for now

Mike

Googling found this, Clara.

"Pro Plus is purely caffeine based every pill contains 50mg of caffeine. Two tablets contain caffeine equivalent to one cup of coffee"

Good luck with the shower!!! If there isn't room in yours to lay down, you can use mine - not that a great lump like me could lay down in it - but you look a wee bit daintier.

Handling the morphine is hard enough (side effects are not fun!) but add to thatbouncing around the room full of caffeine... mmm best not right now!!

Trying to work out what I'm going to do about work tomorrow.

Thanks for the offer Greybeard - I managed okay in mine, it feels so wonderful to be nice and clean!!

Isn't that a decision best left until tomorrow?

I've nothing else to do but lay here and stare at the ceiling (though I am now laying on the sofa *gasp* with my feet facing the door) - panicking gives me something to do!!

Actually you are one of the first one to connect it and came back with a desent joke 0 no moss growing on you my friend.

nipper

i'm ab, not sci, but i do know about chronic back pain having done silly things to discs (L4/L5), and I went through series of epidurals and lumbar nerve root blocks (and a total of 5 years of NHS attempts to sort out the chronic pain - all of which ended me up on stronger pain killers), which didnt really help at all.

Looking at your profile you have quite a lot of stuff going on at once. I eventually found relief from it all by doing a combination of things. Key to it all was dealing with the mental stuff, the emotional side of the pain etc.

You say you suffer from PTSD which I expect will influence the amount of pain you feel, as pain is highly related to emotions.

Breathing techniques, and meditation worked wonders for me, once I had the right person helping. I went to see someone called Hratch Ogali (who is based in London). take a look at his website if you are interested. www.mindinstructor.com He is not a doctor, but he works with quite a few SCI people, and has certainly provided me with a lot of relief.

Whichever direction you choose to go in, from my experience, and others I know who have suffered chronic pain, the problem never goes entirely until all aspects are addressed - and the most significant is the mental aspect.

Thanks. I'm going for option C - having the disc causing a lot of the pain removed. Before the disc had a blow out the pain (nerve / muscle damage) was managable.
I'm trying to cram in as many medical type nonsense before I'm 30 so that I will have used up my quota of ill health and so live until I'm 116.
I acknowledge the PTSD because I am scared to cross the road and have even resorted to having the chaps at work hold my hand in order to get my across. The nightmares and flash backs cause great discomfort but I did not realise that they also increased my pain level. Luckily they seem to be pretty well under control now so perhaps the pain will start to drop off!

Hope your back isn't too bad. Keep safe and thank you for your words of advice.