I don't mean to be the prick that bursts the bubble, but what the hell is wrong with this world! Why are we congratulating someone who is contributing to the gross overpopulation of this world. I can understand wanting to know your dreams of having children and raising a loving caring family. But when are people going to start taking responsibility for their actions. There are now over 6 billion people in this world, that an absolute maximum level is only built to sustain 3 billion. So great, have your kid and have a happy life; but, note that you're taking away from those in this world that can't survive because of people like you. Was two not enough? Certainly three must have been!

I'm not one of those guys that cries about African children dying because they don't have food, but seriously people, your view of the world is seriously demented if you think someone having four children in a grossly overpopulated world is something worth congratulations. I don't know this poster, but shame on her and everyone else that contributes to the decline of humanity.

I am happy to see success stories of people with disabilities also there is some light in the story. It just sickens that people find having a fourth child worthy of congratulations, although I certainly applaud your pursuit of independence and a fulfilling life.

Whoa there Dusty, don't you think that's a little harsh? Who gave you the right to decide how many children one couple should have? Do you really think that having a larger than average family is going to contribute to the decline in humanity? How and what exactly is Lucydog taking away from others in the world?

This post has made you sound bitter and twisted

He's only 24 Trin, so he's still got some growing up to do! I knew everything, too, at that age.

Congratulations Lucydog!!

I am in the process of making my third so that I can also contribute to this "grossly overpopulated world", I wonder who I will be taking away from by doing this? Who am I going to kill?

Oh and dustyP yup that was a prick move for posting that rant here but we don't all have the same issues.

First of all Trinity, no one gave me the right to decide how many children a family should have, but I do have the right to express an opinion which is exactly what I did. And yes, I do sincerely believe that by having more children than is necessary she is indirectly contributing to the decline of humanity. That sentence sounds pretty strong statement, and it is, but I emphasize the word indirectly. Are you seriously going to argue with me about whether the world is overpopulated or not? It obviously is! Hence, by her contributing to further overpopulation she is taking away from the quality of life that could be experienced if we were all to do our part and limit births to what is necessary to sustain life on this planet, if only a miniscule bit. But with the amount of people on this planet that feel the need, like her, to have three, four, five, six, or seven children, there is a fair bit of damage done to the sustainability of life long term. Here, I stress the word long-term.

Feel free to express your opinion about this post, but you cannot dispute these facts.

As for graybeard, I might be 24 but I'm willing to bet I'm far more educated than you are. I'm sure you far outweigh my experiences with the life experience that you have accumulated, hence your laid-back attitude serious social issues, but I'm not willing to sit back and watch this happen. So, I will do my part in limiting the amount of children I have and have my voice heard to perhaps get through to some people. And attacking someone's argument by pointing out their age isn't necessarily the best way to refute an argument. I'm 24, so what! You don't know me and have no idea who I am and what kind of life I have had. Some people who are 24 are the presidents of self-made international corporations, some are lawyers, some doctors... and so on. If you went to a 24-year-old doctor who told you you had cancer, would you say "well, he's only 24" so I won't worry about his opinion and I'll come back when he's 30?

If everyone keeps giving that "Well, I'm not the only one" attitude, than the generations that follow will greatly suffer because we were too stupid to each do our part.

Dusty, I thought your original post put a downer on Lucy's thread. I was tempted to post but I like to avoid internet arguments. Yes you are entitled to your opinions but maybe you should start a new thread to discuss world population.

So, Dusty, I suppose you congratulate murderers and are pro-suicide? Because both help with the decline of the population.

I mean, if you're so incredibly worried about the population and are so obviously smarter than the lot of us, what are YOU doing about the population? I suggest you go teach the underdeveloped countries a little thing about contraception.

Or maybe you should go find a forum that is directed toward countries like China and India, which both have over a billion people, and complain to them about over population.

Yes, a large population is a problem, but this is not the place to be expressing such opinions, and frankly you just made yourself look like an egotistical asshole.

Dusty,

Perhaps you could lighten up a bit. I don't know if you looked at the subtitle for this site, but it's Spinal Cord Peer Support, not tear each other down. Perhaps you should post a rant topic on birth control, instead of attacking a member, a good debate/discussion is usually healthy, this thread is not the place for that, in my humble opinion.

Jerry

PS. Congrats Lucy, keep on strollin on...have as many as you like. Care for them, love them, raise some wonderful human beings.

All is fair about the post not necessarily be appropriate in this thread. I don't deny that, and my apologies. As for Trinity, you're just being ridiculous. Because I'm concerned about the overpopulation of the world I congratulate murderers? I never said anything regarding that. I just encourage people to be responsible for their actions. And what do you mean: "what am I doing about the population". Did you even read my posts? Instead of attacking me personally, why don't you respond to the rationale of my argument, not the person posting it? I stated more than once what I'm doing. Call me an assole if it makes you feel better, but all I did was express the truth which you admitted when you stated that overpopulation is a problem.

By the way, did you know that China is at least trying to be responsible? Haven't you heard of their one child policy? And yes, I would like to travel overpopulated regions of the world to help educate them. I feel it would be very rewarding.

And what's going on here? I'm the only one being attacked and have been completely professional in my posts. Yet I'm being called an asshole and being told that I don't know anything because im 24.

Anyway, the placement of my response to Lucy may have been inappropriate in this thread, but the context was ideal. I apologize to you Lucy for putting a downer on your celebration, and as I said, I am happy to see that you're living a good life, have a healthy family, and feeling fulfilled although I don't necessarily agree with some of your choices.

Hey Dusty, maybe you should have read your first post where you said:
"I don't know this poster, but shame on her and everyone else that contributes to the decline of humanity"
before asking:
"And what's going on here? I'm the only one being attacked and have been completely professional in my posts."
You are the one that initiated an attack in the manner you criticized the original poster. Furthermore, the manner in which you claimed to be better educated than another member is a display of immaturity and arrogance which, hopefully, will disappear with experience of life. I wouldn't be too hasty in claiming to be better educated than some other members of this forum. Not everyone has had the benefit of a good education but you might be surprised to know that many have, and I dare say you might be humbled to learn that a few might even be better educated than yourself. A good education is a wonderful thing but it doesn't necessarily make one a better person or more qualified to lecture others, and it certainly doesn't make one's opinions superior to anyone else's. You might indeed be well educated but it seems you fell short of learning common courtesy. We come from all walks of life and that diversity would be better used to inform, encourage and support each other. It's good that you apologised for your post not being appropriate to this thread, I think a personal apology to Lucydog would now be in order, be that on here or in a PM. So, by all means use your knowledge to enlighten us all but please don't use it as a tool to personally criticize others.
"I don't mean to be the prick..." Sorry, but in this instance that's exactly how you've come across.

Like you, I don't know the original poster but I would like to say
CONGRATULATIONS Lucydog

Lucy is quite sweet.

As for the whole planet being overpopulated & there only being a certain amount of recourses I do agree........there are however a few things you may not have considered.........such as what if the child she is now carrying contributes more to the society & the planet than most 1st and/or 2nd born children? He could grow up & become a politician who helps write laws saving forests thereby giving us all more oxygen to breathe. I think if you feel the need to express your views on things such as overpopulation & environmental issues you simply create a new thread.

Hearing/reading negative statements is one thing; but lets face it......the original post clearly indicates she hasn't even told their families yet due to the negative reactions they believe they'll get, & so when she comes here to post it I'm sure was not with the thought that she'd catch here. Let Lucy & every other parent enjoy their HAPPY EVENT.

Errrm, I am still trying to find the part where I said anything about congratulating murderers? You ask if I have even read your posts, well I ask the same from you. So maybe instead of you attacking me personally you may wish to re-read the previous posts and decide who, if anyone you should be attacking.

As for China's one child policy, you have got to love the high rates of selective sex abortions, female feticde and female infanticide that happens in the country, as well as the thousands of girls in orphanages due to simple not being a boy.

This thread was split from : http://www.apparelyzed.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=10836

Regards

Simon

Every decision has cost and benefits, and any rational decision should be based on this. China's one child policy is certainly not universally beneficial; however, you've already admitted that the world is heavily overpopulated with China being one of the main contributors. So, would you rather the government did nothing and allowed the population of China to multiply as it pleases? Or, would you rather that they tried to do something about it. Very rarely do we get something so complicated right first time, but you have to start somewhere. I am of the belief that the benefit of the one child policy greatly outweighs the cost. Don't get me wrong, I had knowledge and realize the hardships it creates for women in such an environment and the stress that I can place on a family, but there is simply no way that that country could have sustained itself if it were to continue growing at the rate it was in terms of population. There would be far more suffering for everyone, not just women, if that were to happen. But certainly, you're right that there has to be other initiatives taken when actions have such a profound effect on a certain category of people

As far as me being a prick, an asshole, and whatever else you people would like to call me, I can simply only respond by saying sometimes the right thing to do isn't necessarily the easiest thing to do. Sometimes some people need a wake-up call they just can't deal with, so they respond by attacking the messenger and not the message.

When your mailman brings you a bill that you weren't expecting, but that you owe, would you pull out a bat and beat him? A gun and shoot him? I don't think so! So don't do it to me

Oh I only thought you to be a prick due to the way you responded to Lucy's post.

As far as overpopulation is concerned yup its an issue, but there are many other contributing factors besides having more kids such as advancements in health and wellness.

How many of us would be here if it were not for advancements in the medical community?

In some areas of the world overpopulation is way more serious such as China but here in Canada not so much and without immigration our population would actually decrease, so I am doing my part by having more kids as long as I feel I can support them in a lifestyle that I feel is acceptable.

Also you seem to think that having more then 2 kids is too many where does that number come from? Can everyone have 2 kids? What if I have 4 and you have non does that not balance out?

Mr. DustyP, sir,

I think the "P" in your name sez it all.
And you yourself said you were the "prick" that burst the bubble.
Calm down, take a deep breath, AND EMBRACE the fact that you are just that.

Lucydog, obviously a close relative of mine, in that we are both relatively nice people AND have the same last name, will continue to have child after child if she so chooses. I know for a fact that each and every one o' lil' suckers is gonna be an incredible contributor to our society, our world, our very existence. I know this because I'm going to home educate them via E-mail myself and they're gonna turn out just like ME!

And no one, my dusty pricked friend contributes to society quite the way I do. Wouldn't you agree?
I knew that you would.

Right. Please see that the harsh reply you first sent has caused irreparable damage to a very sensitive young lady who simply enjoys having lots and lots of kids around her. This of course makes up for people like me who hates kids and people like you who shouldn't have them.

And no Dusty, I would never shoot a mailman who brought me an unwanted bill. I'd douse his stringy little ass in gasoline an' light him on fire.
Same as I do to people on this site who incessantly piss me off.

Thax for your time,

E-dog

I guess I'm one of the "you people" you refer to. If so, you're quite wrong in thinking you could only respond in one simple way. You could have responded in another simple way; by apologising to Lucydog. I suggest you get down off your high horse and do just that. Sorry, disguise what you said in whichever way you want, but until you apologise to Lucydog for such a disgraceful, personal attack I'll stand by what I said. It has nothing to do with your views on overpopulation, just your manner. "Don't do it to me" works two ways. You seem justified in publicly criticizing others but don't seem to be able to accept criticism in return. If that's the case, have you heard of "do unto others"? Please don't confuse yourself with a postman delivering unwanted mail; he might deliver the mail but doesn't delliver abuse.

You might care to reflect on what you said in your introduction post: "I'm so happy that I came across a site where it really seems like people truly understand and try to be empathetic towards what others are going through."

As long as one has the money and patience to raise kids, go for it.........
It's these welfare grubbing assholes who pop em' out to get a bigger check each month for their crack habit, I can't stand.....
If you're on welfare it should be mandatory to be fixed after 2 kids [male and female]

Jim

Well my clever dusty friend, your education has rather let you down on the one-child policy in China.

You ought to know that in China, there has been a recent policy change. Now, selected couples are being actively encouraged to have an additional child, for which they are financially rewarded. This policy shift is an attempt to balance the fast-increasing elderly Chinese population.

I then went on to state that "very rarely do we get something so complicated right the first time... but you have to start somewhere". Indeed graybeard, I wasn't aware that they had recently approved selected couples divert more than one child to replace aging population, but it's good to know. It's also encouraging to see that they are willing to modify their policy if necessary.

And indeed, the Canadian population is currently in decline because its birthrate is standing summer around 1.8 or 1.91 in fact it needs to be a 2.1 justices saying the current population. 2.1 children are necessary to sustain the population,1 child to replace the mother,1 child to replace the father, and 0.1 for intangibles or something like that... I can't remember. Without immigration Canada would definitely be in distress. I certainly don't want to see the Canadian population die out, but it is only a subset of the world population. So while the Canadian population is dying out, is being replaced in Canada by immigrants which still allows the population of Canada to grow, regardless of its composition. In turn, the population of the world grows. But like you, I certainly don't want to see the actual Canadian population fizzle out, I think that would be a tragedy. Some places have to reduce their birthrates, others have increased them, but we all just can keep multiplying as we please because that is clearly not working.

BTW, I did apologize to Lucy in one of my posts for everyone to see but I don't know how to quote more than one thing at a time

Graphic, your interpretation of my mailman analogy is way off.

DustyP, having again read through all your posts in this thread I saw that you did apologise to Lucydog, albeit with a barbed apology in which you felt the need to add "although I don't necessarily agree with some of your choices", so I'll apologise to you...but unlike you I'll make my apology without reservation. Now that it appears to be a time for apologies all round you might consider making one to Trinity for attacking her over something she never said...you might remember it was brought to your attention? An obvious case of mistaken identity but nonetheless one worthy of an apology.
quote:
"As for Trinity, you're just being ridiculous....Did you even read my posts? Instead of attacking me personally, why don't you respond to the rationale of my argument?"


Your analogy isn't really valid because a postman or messenger has an official duty to deliver a message from one third party, at their request, to another whereas you took that 'duty' upon yourself. However, seeing as you made the analogy I believe my interpretation of it is spot on. As I stated, quite rightly, a messenger delivers a message without making an abusive, personal comment to the recipient as to his opinion of them. If my postman handed me an unexpected bill (which is your analogy) I would certainly not blame him for that bill, but would I expect him to tell me I'm irresponsible for running up such a bill perhaps to the detriment of my family's future finances? Or, as is more in keeping with the way you handled your 'message', announce his views on my stupidity to all and sundry? I think not, it would be most inappropriate. If I were to meet a soldier who was going to war in Afghanistan I wouldn't confront him about the morality of the war I'd wish him a safe return and raise any concerns I might have about the war where it would be most effective. I'm not saying I agree or disagree with the Afghan war, it's just a little analogy of my own.

Anyway, back to the topic. Two children made my family complete (I couldn't manage 2.1). If someone wants a large family and they can give them love, a stable home environment and can provide for them financially then good on them.

I don't think China's "1 child" policy is so great. Every year there are baby girls abandoned at orphanages. There are still multiple children being born there, unfortunately all too often if the 1st born was a girl she is abandoned. I read a book about an American woman who went to China twice to adopt, & she had already had a son of her own. Her account of the horrible conditions the orphanages were in & the babies was heart wrenching.

By living in a home made of man made materials, driving a vehicle that uses oil based fuel, eating food that is in the grocery store put a strain on the planet because of the water it took to grow the produce & the diesel fuel for the tractors that work the farm & for the trucks that brought the produce to the store, we don't live like our cave man ancestors where EVERY part of the animal is used for something such as the bones for tools or plates. So unless you're driving an electric or hydro car, growing your own food, not using electricity, & taking showers where all you do is get wet (turn off water)-lather (with water off)-then rinse off super fast..........do you see where I'm going with this? It isn't just an issue of #s, there are a lot of variables; what we do, our choices of what fights to pick. If the sustainability of the planet is of such great concern to you then I would suggest getting involved with organizations who's main focus is environmental & ecological issues.

And this is coming from a confessed "tree hugger" .

I think we now understand why they call it "China"
And why the postman ALWAYS rings twice.

Wow. My first thought is to call you an asshole, Dusty, but the more I read, the more I started to pity you. What must it feel like to be trapped in such bitterness that you feel the need to insult so many folk here and it especially pisses me off that you chose to direct it to someone who was expressing joy. That must suck. I'd really hate to be you.

As for murder/suicide, I think it is implied that you would be thrilled if someone was murdered. If you are so concerned with the population of the world, wouldn't you welcome a way to bring it down? And hey! The murderer gets a death sentence. Two for the price of one! As for suicides...another double bonus. Not only do you get the population down, you will also rid the world of the gene that causes depression or other mental illness that drive people to it. If your main point is that the world is overpopulated, and it comes across that way, why wouldn't you be happy if there were a couple less people on the planet?

As for people attacking you personally when you are giving a "rational argument", sorry dude, but you are not giving a rational argument. Insulting someone or hurting someone is never rational. Rude comes to mind, but even that isn't strong enough. There is a time and a place for everything and this wasn't it for you opinions. And yes, I said opinions. I don't see many facts and figures in anything you posted. And just a little piece of advice, if you want to "educate" anyone, I suggest you learn how to treat people with dignity and respect because you will not find one person in this world who will listen to you if all you do is demean and criticize.

And while it is true that the world's population is a concern, what do you want? For everyone to stop having kids? Guess what? If everyone didn't have kids, we'll die out completely. As for China being so intelligent...what about the abortion rates there when parents find out their child is girl? A society full of men who can't procreate. Same result.

One more piece of unsolicited advice, if you are going to argue something, have some facts and ideas. And more importantly, express it at appropriate times. No one is forcing you to congratulate anyone on having a child. But to insult someone who is in front of a group of people who are offering them good wishes and support is a good way to make damn sure no one will listen.

I think Dusty is one of those people on our over populated planet that likes to "ruffle feathers". My personal opinion is: if you have the means and love to have a somewhat "larger" family then your typical nuclear family (mom, dad, two kids), then by all means go for it. I bet the Duggar family with their 18 kids makes your head explode, Dusty. But on the flip side, if you're a crack whore living on the street, then please stop popping out the babies.

i suppose being the sixth child form an Irish family i don't have much to say about over-population otherwise i would'nt be here if they had the birth quota police around when i was born.
personally i am glad i was born to live my life but if i was'nt i would'nt know anyway [sounds a bit irish?] i think change the things we can and leave the things we can't change maybe we'll all be gone soon in a nuclear war?so if a few are having extra kids at least the human race can continue.
Waht makes us decide who should and who should'nt have kids?? as if the college/university educated are somehow superior to the less educated

Whoa....... I go on holiday for a week and come back to this!!

Anyway who knows if this is about me or not, frankly I dont care. All I can say is that Im happy in my own skin

Congratulations Lucydog!!!

Having just had my 6th child, I have learned a long time ago not to care a hoot about what other people think. As long as they are not paying for my kids (through handing me money or through their taxes) then I figure it is nobody's business but me ns my husband's. By the way, my husband has a Master's degree and I have a Bachelor's degree so I wouldn't say that education has anything to do with "good decisions" or not.

I agree that people that do not love or take care of their kids and just have them for more money from the government should quit having them. However, that is because the kids will suffer. This world could use a lot more children that are being raised to be productive citizens and I, for one, am doing my part to help the world by having children to raise them to do just that!