I'm going to be moving out to the States in a couple of weeks and plan to spend the month of February sit-skiing in Colorado. Before getting there I want to get hold of a sit ski. I'm not too fussed if it is new or second hand; I just want one that fits me properly and will be suitable for me to start getting some seriously good speed up for some downhill racing.

I have only just learnt to sit-ski but have apparently made very rapid progress and am keen to see if I can take this fantastic sport on to a higher level...

So... are there any particular makes of sit-ski that stand out? How long to they take to be made from new? How much do they cost?

Any thoughts, suggestions or advice would be greatly appreciated!

One of the guys in a SCI support group i sporadically attend vacationed in Winter Park, Colorado and learned to ski (sit ski obviously) I'd guess they are available as rentals at major resorts and will most likely have a bunch of models you can try out.

sitski dot com and spokesnmotion dot com are sites you should check out.

I was lucky and got mine second hand but you need to find one that fits properly and they don't become available very often unless you're in the loop (again I was lucky and just happened to see it advertised in SIA magazine which is very unusual). Most UK/European skiers use Praschburgers or Tessiers as they're made in Europe and are the skis of choice of most of the top european racers.

You've probably left it too late to order a new one now but may be worth contacting them. The US skiers tend to use US manufactured skis (no surprise there then). New skis start at about £1400 (Mogul Master) - Rise to over £2k for a Praschburger/Tessier race standard mono ski and get to about £3k for a Tessier Dual ski IIRC (prices include bindings, outriggers, ski).

There's a good list of the main manufacturers here

If you're going to ski with an adaptive program your best bet is to use their skis, try a few, talk to the instructors and find out what suits your ability and injury level best. With your low level you can probably pretty much choose from all of them.

If you're intending to ski independently then you may be able to hire off the programs anyway.

I'll be in Winter Park (Colorado) in February with a group of 10 SCI skiers :-) Can't come quick enough.

[quote][quote name='russ1' date='Jan 8 2008, 04:38 PM' post='49333']
I was lucky and got mine second hand but you need to find one that fits properly and they don't become available very often unless you're in the loop (again I was lucky and just happened to see it advertised in SIA magazine which is very unusual). Most UK/European skiers use Praschburgers or Tessiers as they're made in Europe and are the skis of choice of most of the top european racers.

You've probably left it too late to order a new one now but may be worth contacting them. The US skiers tend to use US manufactured skis (no surprise there then). New skis start at about £1400 (Mogul Master) - Rise to over £2k for a Praschburger/Tessier race standard mono ski and get to about £3k for a Tessier Dual ski IIRC (prices include bindings, outriggers, ski).

There's a good list of the main manufacturers here

If you're going to ski with an adaptive program your best bet is to use their skis, try a few, talk to the instructors and find out what suits your ability and injury level best. With your low level you can probably pretty much choose from all of them.

If you're intending to ski independently then you may be able to hire off the programs anyway.

I'll be in Winter Park (Colorado) in February with a group of 10 SCI skiers :-) Can't come quick enough.
[/quote]

I used to ski with my kids before injury. You go boy,let that cold wind blow through your hair. Smell the fresh cold breeze,and enjoy the beautiful sites.

If you are in the UK or europe, get in touch with Praschberger and get info on a dealer close to you who can measure you up and get a ski ordered for you.

If you are in the US then you can still get a Prasch but getting a Grove will hopefully be quicker, they both cost around the same, £2000/$4000. I would really advise going with a prasch if you can, get it with the new racing shock and you wont have to upgrade anything.

Those are really the only two sitski's worth thinking about to be honest, especially if you are L1 incomplete. The tessier is a decent ski, but the shocks are crap if you are thinking of racing and generally I dont like them at all. Mogul masters are pretty crap too, decent enough to ski on but a lousy mechanism to load on chair lifts and not the strongest.

REALLY try and get your own ski as soon as possible, dont rely on hiring one from an adaptive center at all. Most centers will want to keep their ski's for the lessons they have booked already, and it will costs you too much anyway.
Plus the sitski's most ski schools have are pretty crap if you really want to improve your skiing, they will mainly be "Mountain Man" type designs with awful dual ski's on and a huge bucket that you wont fit in properly.

The bucket (seat) is the most important thing in a sitski, it is basically you ski boot and has to fit as well as a boot would, otherwise you will move in the bucket without having an effect on the direction of the ski, which aint good.

Basically get a prasch or a grove, if you can get hold of a Kevin Bramble rig then that is a great ski too, definitely dont get a tessier or a yeti.

Can you tell me why you wouldn't get a Yetti? That carrera shock on the Grove looks like junk and a number of reviews I've seen imply that they don't hold up like a works or penske shock would. What is it about the grove that makes you recommend it? Prasch speaks for itself.

Thanks
Scott

i tried a couple, have ordered a praschberger but also found the Fredom Factory Rev Pro Comp to be pretty good. but i prefer the sitting position in the prasch and easier to chair load.

Revolution Pro Comp from Freedom Factory. You'll pay through the ass for it though. Monoskis are expensive. I was given an old Shadow that is currently being reworked and I have to wait til ski season starts to try the thing out but I absolutely love the RPC.

http://www.freedomfactory.org

there is a RPC in NZ second hand for $3000nzd,

i build sit skis.(prash copy)

If any one wants , I can custom build a sitski for your size and needs.
I have been a volunteer sitski teacher for 2 years at Whistler.Adaptive group
I make all my own parts and can help out with affordable fun!!!
I can also assist in guiding and teaching the art of the rip!
Chris McDonald
treerider@live.com
604 815 1690

be interested to know how much you can build them for.

The nissen skis look great but i havent been able to get any info on them,
there are a couple of the japanese team floating around town at the moment who are riding them and they look great.

Hey Chris, I just sent you a private message on here cuz I'm definitely interested in knowing more about your monoskis. I was thinking I'd also like to ski Whistler this winter. The terrain in Ontario sucks--our best is Blue Mountain or Horseshoe Valley and it just doesn't compare to places like Whistler or Mammoth (where I skied last season).

Been talking to a friend who's skiing the olympics next year and has just bought a Nissen - The word is that the hot skis for next season are the Nissin and the Tessier Scarver - I skied a Skarver for a morning in March - was a big improvement on my aging praschburger. Will prob try to get one for next year.

yeah but doesnt matter how good they are if you cant get them.

It is impossible to get even information on the Nissin let alone a price or delivery and the S Carver looks good but is nearly twice the cost of a prasch. They about about 4000 euro versus about 2400 euro for the prasch.

I just got involved with sit skiing last season at Park City, using their Freedom Factory Mogul Master. I've skiied all my life, but two years ago I crashed my hangglider and I am paralyzed below my knees.

My question is this, what do you recommend for an aggressive sit skier that likes powder, bumps, racing, etc, and why? Its a lot of money to pluck down, but I'm going to pursue this being that I'm minutes away from the "Greatest Snow On Earth!"

Thanks!

Pete

IMHO

1. Praschberger - tried and tested , still win bulk of top level, feet down seating position, skis really well,

2. tessier s carver and
nissin (read my comments above ) but otherwise look great.

3. KGB (brambles) bomb proof and well tested, not prefered for racing now. but probably good for freeride, feet up siting position.

4. Freedom Factory Rev pro comp. pretty good but not the best.

mogul master doesnt has a good reputation. know for being easily broken.

there are 2 styles, feet up and feet down positions. i prefer the prasch style (tessier and nissin are similar) as it keeps the centre of gravity lower. just makes more sense to me.

Low levels who are aggressive usually seem to do really well with the Bramble - Difficult to go wrong with it if it suits you.



Fair few of the top racers still using these for downhill - other makes preferred for the more technical disciplines. Or at least that's the info I'm getting from peeps I know who are into the racing scene.

A friend of mine is T10 and I believe he uses the Kevin Bramble one. He is a VERY aggressive skier and he was a pro snowboarder before he got hurt. He does huge jumps, all the black diamond runs in Mammoth (California) and other places around the world, and stuff like 180s. He also skis the pipe at Mammoth, goes full tilt. I believe his biggest jump was 70-something feet (and he's broken many many MANY skis in the process of trying various jumps, etc.). He is an AMAZING skier (and is also the person who has taught me everything I know so far about how to monoski and the one currently reworking my Shadow!). He also highly recommended the RPC from Freedom Factory. However, I have heard someone mention that the RPC is better suited to people who are smaller in stature. I don't know how true this is or not.

The RPC is a very similar seating position to the brambles and is sort of straighter leg and higher feet. which doesnt really make sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdgCfxcT_IA

this video is all on the RPC which do ski pretty well (keep in mind this is only 9 or 10 days ever on a sit ski for me). i had my hands on a bramble but the seat was to small for me so i abandoned the idea after one run. but i was impressed with the build quality. you would be doing well to break it BUT it is heavy as S&^$.

i jumped in the prasch after a number of days on a RPC and was blown away. they ride soo much better IMHO. but i will admitt that part of it was the shock set up was better on the prasch.

in general i prefer the feet down position of the prasch (and tessier, nissin) over the brambles, rpc style.
it keeps your centre of gravity low which makes lots of things easier. including getting up when you fall over.
seating arrangement of the prasch held me in great with 3 straps where i had 5 on the RPC.

I have seen very good footage of great skiers on the RPC, brambles, tessier and the prasch. all ski great in the right hands.

also loading mechanisms vary alot. brambles doesnt have one. RPC does and is OK, prasch is the easiest to load on chairs but doesnt always drop out of the load position but easy fix.

PS i have also heard that it is a long delivery time for the brambles (maybe year) prasch delivery is 4 weeks from order.

Q

ps i will add that the "fit" of the bucket and the setup of the shock and the ski mount position make a massive different to how a rig skis.

and with bindings get some marker 30s they are bomb proof. and you will probably break skis but they are not hard to come by in singles.

[quote name='qman' date='Aug 8 2009, 01:13 AM' post='122869']
The RPC is a very similar seating position to the brambles and is sort of straighter leg and higher feet. which doesnt really make sense to me.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HdgCfxcT_IA

this video is all on the RPC which do ski pretty well (keep in mind this is only 9 or 10 days ever on a sit ski for me). i had my hands on a bramble but the seat was to small for me so i abandoned the idea after one run. but i was impressed with the build quality. you would be doing well to break it BUT it is heavy as S&^$.

I was really impressed watching your video, but why did you go around that huge jump...Chicken!

I got an e-mail from the Freedom Factory and they recommend the RPC SS model. That sounds like their latest and greatest. The Prash is one that seems to be highly recommended, but pricey.

I need to look into this further before I take the plunge.


Thanks guys/gal, for your input. If you have any additional comments, please post! Pete

I actually have a pic of me and my friend who uses the Kevin Bramble out on the mountain, facing eachother and you can see the RPC I'm in and his KB for a direct comparison of the two (visually, anyway). Unfortunately, the pic is too big to post here because of the 200kb limit and I have no idea how to re-size the thing on my mac. Either way, I'm going to hold fast to my love of the RPC, though I have never used a Prasch. I think it just depends entirely on personal preference, body shape/size, and skiing style ie. how aggressive you are. Everyone is going to have a different opinion of each model and brand. I believe there are reviews of almost all monoskis currently on the market over on http://www.sitski.com, so that could also be of help to someone looking for one to try. I wouldn't suggest buying one without trying it out first though. Try and hit up a good adaptive ski program which has various types of monos in its arsenal (like DSES in Mammoth) and try a few out before making a big pricey decision.

One attractive aspect of purchasing a mono from the Freedom Factory is that its here in the states, and if there's any issues or problems with it I don't have to deal with this in another continent.

I'm thinking more about the RPC SS model. The factory says its designed for the agressive skier with a shorter shock travel, and its more stiff than the original RPC. I know I bottomed out quite a bit last winter, but that was also on the Mogul Master rental. Rentals typically suck even though I don't have anything to compare it to.

Thanks for your response. I'll keep posting my investigation on this, and I'll probably post some other issues I'll likely have skiing this up coming winter.

Pete

I just had another day on a prasch and compared to the RPC, the prasch is a ferrari. It carves turns off the edge sooo much better. there are some minor glitches with the unloading as it doesnt always drop out of load position coming off the chair. but otherwise is great.

I was laying it over to the point i hit the bucket on the snow a few times. great fun.

i am stoked that is what i have ordered and cant wait to get my own so i can set it up right as the shock on this one was to soft for me. i have also ordered the race version which is a bit higher.

Standard fix is a bit of string onto the knuckle which you pull up and secure off while on the lift to break the knuckle joint and make sure you come off in the ski position - the prasch is probably the best ski out there for loading IMO.
PM me when you get yours and I'll send you some photo's of how to attach the string, sounds a bit heath robinson but works really well.

thanks for that, i will try it once mine arrives pretty soon.

Well I have the Freedom Factory order form and the Praschberger order form.

If I go with the Freedom Factory RPC-SS, it will cost me $3100 + 130 for shipping and handling.

If I go with the Prasch, it will cost $2935.00, plus $600 for VAT (value added tax), plus shipping.

Its a huge investment. Prasch is what most people recommend, but the RPC-SS is the latest and the greatest from Freedom Factory. Help!

Which is why you should try to find an adaptive ski program that has both of these monos in their arsenal and try them before you buy one. It's a BIG investment. It's really hard to recommend one or the other because everybody not only skis different but everyone is a different size, injury/ability level, etc., etc. Truth be told, I wouldn't buy either without having tried either of them. That's like buying a car without test driving it. You should at least try one of those models this winter before you commit to buying.

Mimi is back! Yay
Where were you hiding girl?

Thanks for the advice. I know I should try them before I buy them. I've tried the old Freedom Factory Mogul Master. The remaining arsenal at Park City is pretty old too and outdated. I don't know of any other place to check it out...I'll keep ya posted!

Thanks!

Pete

just got my prasch, which is great but made a couple of errors in ordering the main one being the seat width. there 40cm is 38cm etc..

so mine is very tight but usable

I'm trying to lock in the cost, including VAT and shipping with Praschberger via e-mail, but I'm not getting a response. Any suggestions, besides calling them? They are the most expensive mono-ski out there. I feel this is a bad indicator for future services.

Pete

actually they (prasch) are no where near the most expensive mono, they are actually one of the cheaper,

should try costing a tessier one. the prasch was 40% cheaper.

i think they are only slightly more expensive than the Freedom factory.

Prasch have been pretty good to deal with but have to remember that they are basically on summer holidays at the moment in austria. it will cost you about $2600 euro, should be VAT exempt if you are OS. but you will pay local duty or GST or VAT or whatever in your country

i have sorted out most of the tweaking now. the shock is 90% there turning wise now and i am actually happy with the seat although it is very tight and hard to get in and out of. it skis well though and doent mark my hips so should be sweet.

Like i said be carefull with the seat width. go about the width of your WC rather than narrower as they are roughly 2cm narrower than the specified width once the foam lining etc is in place. best to try one of a known width for size if you can.

the WP fusion shock is good and very adjustable. but will take me a while to get in nailed re dampening etc..


ps, they say available in 4 weeks which was roughly right but add a week for shipping and customs etc.. if over seas. 6 weeks to 2 months to be safe for ordering

Thanks for the info. So I am an idiot. What is a "WC?" And do you suggest the WhitePowder Fusion Shock, over the Emulsion? What is the difference?

Thanks! Any other suggestions on what to get would be helpful.

Pete.

PS: I slammed in hanggliding. I noticed you hammered in paragliding...Ouch!

yeah, sort of broken eagles eh.

WC = wheel chair. if you are in a 16inch chair order a 16 inch (or =) sit ski, i went narrower as i wanted a narrower fit but they seem to have already taken that into account,

generally get the best shock you can afford. I think the fusion is better than the emulsion in that it has more dampening adjustments etc, if you can afford it get the ohlins shock but it is really expensive.

the other thing is the frame angle 70 degrees or 77 degrees i think. and the 70 degree one is higher than the other in the seating position and generally recommended for racers and lower breaks. it is a little more unstable but can be skied more aggressively. the 77 degree one is a little easier to get up if you fall over etc at the centre of gravity is lower.

the leg pods and covers are good if you can but are pretty expensive options and not really needed for recreational skiing IMHO.

the other things are pretty straight forward.

generally i am pretty happy with it, we have heaps of snow at the moment with about 1m over the last week, should be a big powder day tomorrow.

Thanks for your input.

I found a USA distributor for the Prasch and I am in the process of ordering one with the fusion shock. I double checked my seat width and feel comfortable with my measurements.

The Ohlins shock is the cream of the crop type of shock and is selling for about 1000 euros. Too much money for my taste and pocket book. This shock would be ideal in very cold condtions and for the hard core racers.

The Tesser mono ski appears to be top of the line, and so far the most expensive that I have found, over $6000. Again, no thanks.

I am definitely amped to ski this year since now I no longer sky dive, or hardly ever hang glide. My adrenalin filled body is starting to dry up and whither away.

great,

just be sure they dont sting you to much extra for ordering through the distributor as it is pretty easy to order direct from prasch.

although i was a bit concerned initially i am pretty happy with the width i got now as it skis really well,
i am pretty happy with the fusion shock although it is taking a while to nail all the adjustments (4 variables). but that is no issue with the shock. it just takes time

it is skiing great now.

i really enjoy skiing as it really puts me on par with my mates on the hill and can seriously blast around.

Do you do any jumps, or x-treme type of skiing with your sit ski? Im really curious about doing bumps and jumps. I would think its tough on the shock and frame.

Pete

i am pretty new to it really but am skiing steep and deep stuff when the snow is consistent.

i find it a little tricky in crusty snow but other wise it is great.

There are a few guys skiing these rigs pretty hard and getting BIG air.

check out http://www.theandycampbell.com/1/Welcome.html

Before my accident, I would hate to ski in icey conditions, but with the sit ski, I found I have a lot of control and I can really cut an edge to carve out a turn.

In powder...that's tricky.

In crud...that's even more challenging.

I think that once I have my own sit ski, I can have it adjusted just right and really dial into the conditions.

That video of the down hill race where they're taking the jumps is really the acid test in durability of the sit ski design. I'm looking foreward to winter!

Pete

it is a bit of different skis for different purposes.

fat skis help in soft snow. i have a ski up to 104mm underfoot and that helps sometimes but is poor on the firm snow.

I have a head monster 88 ski which i find the best all rounder. wide but stiff with a gs sidecut.

Yeah, What is with NISSIN. They put this product out there but refuse to discuss it. It's like a Japanese National Security issue!!
If a high profile company like Colours In Motion are distributing them I would have thought that they would have ready access to the information about their product, but NO, still the great wal of silence.
I've just posted about this before I found this string. This issue is driving me crazy

Its been an education getting to know what is out there.

In the US, there's two manufacturers that I know of: Freedom Factory and KGB.

Freedom Factory produces what some consider a basic design.
KGB is more of a high performance racing design.

In Europe there's the Tessier and Praschberger.

In Japan, there is the elusive Nissin.

I believe there is one other manufacture out there, but I don't recall the name.

Not a whole lot out there when comparing this to the number of various types, designs and manufacture's of skis on the market.

I just put my order in for the Praschberger (I took a leap of faith, and sold my first born to purchase it).

Pete

Opps, found this link in this thread: manufactures

rumour has it that the nissin is sort of under restriction until after the winter olympics on the theory that those using it will have the upper hand at vancouver.

maybe they will become more available next year.

I suspect that's just a rumour - I was chatting with one of the US team who had one last year and my friend who's in the UK team has just bought one with a view to using it in vancouver.

Well, I'm excited because ski season is just around the corner! Just heard that it is snowing like crazy in Breckenridge, CO already

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCJxN0i3c1s

here is the lasted vid,

the first half is on a FF RPC and the later parts on my Prash

I just picked up a used RPC and I'm excited to go hit the snow. I didn't want to spend to much so the second hand one was perfect and it fits perfect.

Hey qman, awesome video, can't believe it's your first year...you look like you got it down. Also, what ski are you using?

i was using (mostly) at Head Monster 88. which was excellent.

it is a nice all round ski for free skiing. wide enough to help in the powder but still holds and edge with a GS side cut.

also really well made, wood core, metal topsheet etc.

you will break skis occasionally on a sit ski.

i know this is sort of in the wrong topic box but does any one have any adzise on what they found was the best hotel for the money, being a wheelchair user and getting to the slopes at Winter Park, Colorado, USA. any info would be good