26 replies to this topic

[ctom3]

T11 complete

I'm putting together my first wheelchair and need a little advice. Should I pick 24 or 25 inch wheels, what are the advantages and disadvantages. What do you recommend and why?

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

I prefer 24" wheels myself, because it makes finding replacement tires tubes much easier...Especially when you get a unexpected flat and have to find a bike shop! Also, they lower your center of gravity which makes a big difference in stability.

[Yong]

24s. I don't see a lot of people rolling around in anything bigger...except for in sports chairs. Like surfer said, it's a whole lot easier finding replacement tires and tubes... plus you can buy 24" spinergy's on ebay every now and then for half the price.

[KarenFerguson]

I'd go with 24" wheels myself. And I totally wouldn't get pneumatic tires (ties with tubes). I had them for years and would always worry about getting flats and would be going to the bike shop a lot. Go with the solid ties - never worry about a flat ... and to me, I can't tell the difference. The only thing about solid ties is that it adds a minuscule amount to weight to the chair, but if your pneumatic ties are just a little bit un-inflated it's really hard to push. Okay, I got a bit off topic ...

Here's what hubby thinks:

A smaller diameter wheel should be easier to push from a dead stop. And a larger wheel will be easier to push once you're moving. The difference between 24" and 25" is so negligible that the difference isn't all that noticeable. So it really just comes down to personal preference.

[Kev-O]

Go with the 24's. They will make it easier putting them in your car when it comes time to brake down your chair.

[twisted_ophelia]

I currently have 25s but I am switching to 24s for my new chair that was ordered a few weeks ago. I stick with pneumatic tires over solid. I've been fine over the years with the 25s and had no real big issues--except that I find it impossible to change the tires/tubes myself and need someone to do it for me, it's so hard--so we'll see how it goes with the new 24s!

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

The problem with changing tires comes from the braided sidewalls...Most high performance wheelchair tires operate between 100 and 110psi, this makes it a royal pain when replacing a inner tube...Still though, I prefer pneumatic tires over solid...Solid tires tend to add ALOT of weight to a Spinergy rim and take away many of the dampening properties. And although 1 to 1 1/2 pounds of extra weight per rim does'nt sound like much, when you take into account level of injury, or long distances, that extra reciprocating mass makes all the difference...You really just have to sit down (no pun intended) and consider how much distance you plan on pushing per day.

[cosmosmallpiece]

Hello
Most manual wheelchairs have 24"x1"/3/8 or 24"x1" high presser tyres.

[russ1]

ctom3, on Feb 15 2009, 09:01 PM, said:

T11 complete

I'm putting together my first wheelchair and need a little advice. Should I pick 24 or 25 inch wheels, what are the advantages and disadvantages. What do you recommend and why?

A lot of this depends on how much dump you put in your chair. Some years back most active paras were putting 3 or 4 inches of dump in their chairs and many older paras now struggle with less. Current thinking is that this much dump is both unnecessary and bad for your internal organs long term. The less dump you have the further your shoulders are from the wheels and the more relevant the larger wheels become to placing your hands in the optimum position for pushing and maintaining long term shoulder wellbeing. Personally I'm a big fan of 25" wheels, as a bigger bloke (height rather than waist measurement) 24" wheels just feel a bit too diddy and too far away from my hands. Most of my taller friends now use 25" wheels. A minor advantage is that larger wheels roll up kerbs and the like more easily too.

A couple of things to note from previous posts though - wheel size shouldn't affect the centre of gravity position if they're specified on the chair from the outset as the axle will just be positioned to provide the same centre of gravity. 25" wheels are the same size rim as mountain bikes so there should be a choice of tyres at any bike shop and certainly in the UK to get a tyre to fit a 24" rim (which doesn't match any standard bike wheel available in the uk) at anything other than specialist wheelchair outlets is difficult.

As for pneumatic/solid tyres there's a reason why pro cyclists use pneumatics and risk having punctures rather than using solid and it's because pneumatics roll better and give a better ride. If you're pushing any distance on anything other than very smooth surfaces then a pneumatic will always be better. With modern kevlar reinforced puncture proof tyres (not the cheap rubbish usually fitted to wheelchairs when first supplied) the incidence of punctures is very low in normal use. As for changing tyres if you get a kevlar beaded tyre (sometimes called a folding tyre) these are infinitely easier to get on/off a wheel than the cheaper wire beaded tyres IME but even then there are large variations between tyres from different manufacturers.

that's my 2p worth.

Edited by russ1, 16 February 2009 - 10:44 AM.

[qbounce]

cosmosmallpiece, on Feb 16 2009, 02:57 AM, said:

Hello
Most manual wheelchairs have 24"x1"/3/8 or 24"x1" high presser tyres.

Not mine. 25's and kick tires (solid, no air needed). To each their own I guess . . .

[Trinity]

qbounce, on Feb 16 2009, 06:01 PM, said:

cosmosmallpiece, on Feb 16 2009, 02:57 AM, said:

Hello
Most manual wheelchairs have 24"x1"/3/8 or 24"x1" high presser tyres.

Not mine. 25's and kick tires (solid, no air needed). To each their own I guess . . .

Kik 24's for me

[ems]

quoting russ, but cant be bothered to back to the post and quote from there!!!

"pro cyclists use pneumatics and risk having punctures rather than using solid and it's because pneumatics roll better and give a better ride"

TOTALLY AGREE!!!

As you wear down your solids your footprint gets larger, more resistance etc and the quality of the ride is rather sh**e compared to a really good tyre. BUt the same is true of those that dont keep their tyres pumped, all that wasted energy your expelling !!!
My tyres on my bike, are Tufo tyres, tubular clinchers hehehe... lovely tyres, but they cost me £45 each!!! But I love riding on them! You are less likely to get a puncture from the street if your tyres are pumped up properly....
But, I have a set with solids (KIK MAKO) on too, and I travel with those ;) It's then just one less thing to go wrong hehe!

I've never had anyone else change my tyres.. I look after all my wheeled objects myself. Its not rocket science, its a wheelchair.. maintenance is a few minutes a week if that. If your castor is squeaky .. lube it, if its clunky replace it! Buy the tools you need once and you'll never have to go to a bike shop again.. apart from the commodities!!

Edited by ems, 16 February 2009 - 08:20 PM.

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

russ1, on Feb 16 2009, 02:34 AM, said:

25" wheels are the same size rim as mountain bikes so there should be a choice of tyres at any bike shop and certainly in the UK to get a tyre to fit a 24" rim (which doesn't match any standard bike wheel available in the uk) at anything other than specialist wheelchair outlets is difficult.

Standard mountain bike tires are 26" X 1" internal bead and unfortunately won't fit on a 25" wheelchair rim. However, you can find BMX track tires in 24" and they will come in a large variety of tread styles depending on your specific application.

[russ1]

Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO), on Feb 16 2009, 11:35 PM, said:

russ1, on Feb 16 2009, 02:34 AM, said:

25" wheels are the same size rim as mountain bikes so there should be a choice of tyres at any bike shop and certainly in the UK to get a tyre to fit a 24" rim (which doesn't match any standard bike wheel available in the uk) at anything other than specialist wheelchair outlets is difficult.

Standard mountain bike tires are 26" X 1" internal bead and unfortunately won't fit on a 25" wheelchair rim. However, you can find BMX track tires in 24" and they will come in a large variety of tread styles depending on your specific application.

Sorry but you're just plain wrong - you need to consider the ISO/ETRTO bead seat diameter - a 25" wheelchair wheel has a bead seat diameter of 559mm which is identical to a 26" mountain bike tyre. They do fit perfectly as shown by the three sets of mtb tyres on my 25" wheels.

A 24" wheelchair wheel has a bead seat diameter of 540mm, a 24" BMX tyre has an ETRTO bead seat diameter of 507 and as such will be considerably too small to fit a standard 24" wheelchair wheel.

Tech details on wheelchair bead seat diameters shown on the spinergy site here
Confirmation of 24" BMX tyre size shown on schalwbe web site here

I do know of some people who have a smaller (ETRTO 507) rim built onto a wheelchair hub and fitted with a 24" BMX wheel which gives a nominal 24" outer diameter wheel (almost identical to a 24" wheelchair wheel with a narrow high pressure tyre) and this is what I suspect you have but this in NOT a standard 24" wheelchair wheel as supplied on most wheelchairs or as bought from spinergy.

If you're really interested in the tech stuff behind tyre sizing it's all here http://sheldonbrown....ire-sizing.html and explains why trying to use tyre outer diameters (the inch size) will always lead to confusion.

[Steviewo]

Got to agree with Russ and Ems - pneumatic tyres always for me.

Tried some some solid tyres once and they were awful, theres just no give with them. I use Schwalbe "Marathon Evolution" tyres now, which have a kevlar lining and they can be picked up for £40 a pair in the UK now - I'd never go back to Primo tyres now which I previously thought were good.

As for size Id have to say the bigger the better also and will personally be tempted to go for 26" next time I replace my chair.

http://www.accessatl...y-shop-info/36/

[qman]

i have the same tyre. swabe marathons. and have never had a problem with them

they are almost puncture proof. touch wood.

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

russ1, on Feb 17 2009, 02:56 AM, said:

A 24" wheelchair wheel has a bead seat diameter of 540mm, a 24" BMX tyre has an ETRTO bead seat diameter of 507 and as such will be considerably too small to fit a standard 24" wheelchair wheel.

I do know of some people who have a smaller (ETRTO 507) rim built onto a wheelchair hub and fitted with a 24" BMX wheel which gives a nominal 24" outer diameter wheel (almost identical to a 24" wheelchair wheel with a narrow high pressure tyre) and this is what I suspect you have but this in NOT a standard 24" wheelchair wheel as supplied on most wheelchairs or as bought from spinergy.

Well, i'm sponsored by both Kenda Tires and Spinergy... And I run a slew of 24/540 SLX rims, with a combination of tires ranging from the "Tomac" Downhill racing tire (24x2.50), to the K-Rad BMX tire (24x1.95) and the Koncept wheelchair tire (24x1)

And although some are harder to get on than others, they do fit you standard spinergy rim fine...

[qman]

interesting chair,

i cant believe how high your foot plate is. and the amount of dump you have in the seat. do you not find your knees bashing on every table you roll under.

Also, i have a set of kenda off road tyres on a spare set of wheels but i really hate using them. fat tyres on a WC feel sooo cumbersome and i rarely use them despite bashing over rough terrain. They are heavier to push and less manouverable and tough on the hands.

Edited by qman, 18 February 2009 - 02:12 AM.

[WildKat]

I use 25" wheels on my current chair. I like the size a lot better because they sit at the right height for me with the way my chair is set up. I used 24" wheels on my old chair and kept the couple of sets of old Spinergy's I had so I can have a set for my old chair and also put knobby tires on the other set. This way I can use them on my new chair and they are the same diameter as the 25" wheels with regular court tires.

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

qman, on Feb 17 2009, 06:11 PM, said:

interesting chair,

i cant believe how high your foot plate is. and the amount of dump you have in the seat. do you not find your knees bashing on every table you roll under.

Also, i have a set of kenda off road tyres on a spare set of wheels but i really hate using them. fat tyres on a WC feel sooo cumbersome and i rarely use them despite bashing over rough terrain. They are heavier to push and less manouverable and tough on the hands.

Thank you, it's a highly modified per4max, full suspension using adjustable fox racing shocks. It's the best chair i've ever used, I recommend one to anyone! LOL, yes when it's built up like that for off road I have to take my feet off the footplate to get under tables

I agree, the "Tomacs" very heavy and tear the shite out of my hands! But I have a surf camp on the beach in Costa Rica and although my camp is fully wheelchair accessible, the country is anything but. So when i'm down there, I rebuild my chair to take on the worst.

Edited by Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO), 18 February 2009 - 04:26 AM.

[russ1]

Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO), on Feb 18 2009, 12:49 AM, said:

russ1, on Feb 17 2009, 02:56 AM, said:

A 24" wheelchair wheel has a bead seat diameter of 540mm, a 24" BMX tyre has an ETRTO bead seat diameter of 507 and as such will be considerably too small to fit a standard 24" wheelchair wheel.

I do know of some people who have a smaller (ETRTO 507) rim built onto a wheelchair hub and fitted with a 24" BMX wheel which gives a nominal 24" outer diameter wheel (almost identical to a 24" wheelchair wheel with a narrow high pressure tyre) and this is what I suspect you have but this in NOT a standard 24" wheelchair wheel as supplied on most wheelchairs or as bought from spinergy.

Well, i'm sponsored by both Kenda Tires and Spinergy... And I run a slew of 24/540 SLX rims, with a combination of tires ranging from the "Tomac" Downhill racing tire (24x2.50), to the K-Rad BMX tire (24x1.95) and the Koncept wheelchair tire (24x1)

And although some are harder to get on than others, they do fit you standard spinergy rim fine...

I suspect that your spinery wheels with the BMX tyres are actually the 22" wheels which have an ETRTO size of 501 which is so close to the ETRTO size of 507 for the 24" BMX tyres as to make no difference. I know of at least one friend who has this set up on their wheelchair and have sourced tyres for her. There is just no way in the world that a 24" BMX tyre (507 bead diameter) will fit onto a standard 24" wheelchair wheel (bead diameter 540) for the reasons I have shown, the maths just doesn't work. I'm betting that your high pressure tyres in your picture are 24" and have a similar overall diameter to the chunky BMX tyres? Obviously in order for this to happen the wheel inside the tyre needs to be smaller? Try getting a tape out and putting it across the rims of the respective wheels and you'll see what I'm getting at.

I'm not trying to be difficult but just don't want people going off ordering 24" bmx tyres for their 24" wheelchair wheels because they really just won't fit. As a sponsored person do you have enough wheels that you don't actually have to take the BMX tyres off the rims and fit the 24" wheelchair tyres? The thing with spinery wheels is that there's no way to tell which actual wheel (rim) you have except by reference to the ETRTO size of the tyre fitted - your Tomac Downhill tyres and K-Rad BMX tyres have an ETRTO size of 507 which matches a 22" wheelchair wheel - your Koncept 24x1 wheelchair tyre has a ETRTO size of 540 which matches a 24" wheelchair wheel - they're not intercnangeable. Try it and you'll see.

It's a good option with having 24" wheelchair wheels though, that a set of 22" wheels with 2" wide 24" bmx tyres are virtually interchangeable with the 24" wheels with high pressure tyres without having to upset the geometry of the chair - not an option with 25" wheels.

[korrobe]

i run 26 x 1s...same as my rugby chair. i can't stand solid tires (personal preference) and don't have a problem changing flats.

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

russ1, on Feb 18 2009, 04:59 AM, said:

I suspect that your spinery wheels with the BMX tyres are actually the 22" wheels which have an ETRTO size of 501 which is so close to the ETRTO size of 507 for the 24" BMX tyres as to make no difference.

As a sponsored person do you have enough wheels that you don't actually have to take the BMX tyres off the rims and fit the 24" wheelchair tyres? The thing with spinery wheels is that there's no way to tell which actual wheel (rim) you have except by reference to the ETRTO size of the tyre fitted - your Tomac Downhill tyres and K-Rad BMX tyres have an ETRTO size of 507 which matches a 22" wheelchair wheel - your Koncept 24x1 wheelchair tyre has a ETRTO size of 540 which matches a 24" wheelchair wheel - they're not intercnangeable. Try it and you'll see.

It's a good option with having 24" wheelchair wheels though, that a set of 22" wheels with 2" wide 24" bmx tyres are virtually interchangeable with the 24" wheels with high pressure tyres without having to upset the geometry of the chair - not an option with 25" wheels.

I don't get them pre-assembled. I get tires in one shipment and rims in another...And yes, they're 24/540's, Spinergy does'nt make their SLX (Sport Light Xtreme) in 22", only in 24", 25", 26" 700c sizes.

Now their LX (Light Xtreme) rim comes in a 22", but has thinner spokes and a entirely different hub flange design which would be pretty obvious.

Now a plausible explanation, is that the tires I get are team issue and use some interesting technologies (L3R PRO/DDR), it's possible that they are just stretchier than your average kevlar folding tire bead...Either way, i'm well aware of what they give me, as every shipment comes with a detailed invoice I have to sign off on and fax back... I wish I could offer you a better explanation, but i've double checked and this is the equipment i'm currently running.

Edited by Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO), 18 February 2009 - 09:22 PM.

[silone74]

Hi i had big problems fitting a 24" bike tyre to a 24" spinergy wheelchair wheel so i just built some 24" mtb rims around a sun wheelchair hub dont have any problems now LOL.






Si

[Jax]

One big thing I noticed when getting my Quickie GTi with the full suspension is that for the low height I wanted, I couldn't get 25s. The suspension on the GTi adds a bit of height, so I had to get the smaller wheels to compensate. The model of chair you get and the other specs you want sometimes change what size wheels will work for the setup. I use SPOX with Kik solids and natural fit handrims on the GTi, and they are plenty light, and the suspension system soaks up the bumps. It's all preference and specs. Some wheels are harder to get in 24, and some are harder to get in 25, so that can be a factor too. If somebody has advice on where the hell to take SPOX to get them balanced, please let me know...

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

Jax, on Feb 24 2009, 08:20 PM, said:

if somebody has advice on where the hell to take SPOX to get them balanced, please let me know...

I understand where you coming from, I too have a full suspension chair that uses fox shox with 2 inches of travel and 24's have always worked well for me!...As far as getting your spinergy's ballenced, any high end bike store should be able to do it.

-PS your rims should have come from the factory with a special tool, make sure to bring that as well.

Edited by Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO), 26 February 2009 - 10:51 PM.

[Jax]

Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO), on Feb 26 2009, 03:46 PM, said:

Jax, on Feb 24 2009, 08:20 PM, said:

if somebody has advice on where the hell to take SPOX to get them balanced, please let me know...

I understand where you coming from, I too have a full suspension chair that uses fox shox with 2 inches of travel and 24's have always worked well for me!...As far as getting your spinergy's ballenced, any high end bike store should be able to do it.

-PS your rims should have come from the factory with a special tool, make sure to bring that as well.

Thank you! I should have thought of that...