9 replies to this topic

[Emily74]

I know this is a pretty intense question, and feel free to disregard it if you like.

My question is, do you find it easier to forgive people if they are still alive or if they have passed on? Or does it not make a difference? I am speaking of in the example of if someone hurt you very deeply. Not something minor.

Like for example... let's say both parents hurt you horrendously (not saying mine did, I had the best Dad in the world), one parent passed on when you were still a child, let's say... 10 years old. The other parent, who also hurt you horrendously, is still alive, and has not changed his/her ways and is not sorry, and flat out denies everything. Would one be an easier circumstance to forgive than the other based on wether or not that one is still alive or not?

[E-DOG]

Forgive?
What are you nuts? Cling to those resentments like a pitbull on crack I say!
Pack 'em deep down in yer gut, let 'em fester like some kinda suppurating chancre of hate and disgust.
That way, when the grand kids come over for fried chicken on Sundays and one of them irritates you, you can get so incredibly pissed off you throw boiling hot chicken grease in their face n' bash 'em in the head with the frying pan.

I don't know. Maybe not such a hot idea after all. But I've met a lot of folks who DO tend to hang on to resentments instead of letting them go.
Unhealthy to say the least, but that's for another topic and for once I'm gonna try not to jack this one. (Which deserves a round of applause, I think)

For some it ain't easy looking another person in the eye and forgiving them. Especially if they were hurt badly.
To forgive, OR apologize to someone requires a certain amount of intestinal fortitude. Not all have it. Especially face to face.

There is also this. Why forgive? To bring peace to yourself? Or the guilty party? If it's just for you, to ameliorate your anger, stay home and work it out yourself. If it's to let the other guy know you've let him off the hook, then I'd go see him and do it right.

Sometimes when I've waited too long and the person is now dead I'll write a letter of forgiveness, take it to their grave site and read it to them and then burn it.

But more important, for me, is to look at my part in the resentment. What did I do to cause someone to hurt me so badly? Or is it just a lack of tolerance on my part that's causing such anger? I was pissed at my Mother for a long time till I realized she did the best she could with what she had to work with. Or if the offense was egregious enough, maybe the guilty party should be considered sick not malicious. The sick need patience love and tolerance not anger. Who does the anger affect? Certainly not the one yer angry with.

E-dog

[Emily74]

Some people won't take well to being forgiven though. For example, the mean drunk who is in denial about his/her drinking problem. I believe it is possible to forgive someone, and not ever tell them or have any kind of current relationship with them, and a good thing to do for one's sanity. If someone has hurt us, I think it is important not to give them the power to continue to hurt us and poison us. Forgive and live your life.

[jass1]

call me crazy but i can`t stay angry for long time,maybe i forgive easy ?

[nomis]

Tonyswife, on Feb 26 2009, 05:28 PM, said:

....I believe it is possible to forgive someone, and not ever tell them or have any kind of current relationship with them, and a good thing to do for one's sanity....

Quite right. The forgiving or not forgiving is all in your own head and doesn't have to involve the other person.

To forgive a person now dead can be easier because the person is no longer a threat to you, you're safe to explore it. The distance of death also can better put the person's whole life into perspective and maybe clarify where they were coming from....or not. It still depends on your own willingness to look at what you yourself are doing and if you want to continue to hold those feelings.

Also, to forgive doesn't mean you have to like some specific behaviour of that person. Bad behaviour is bad behaviour and doesn't disappear as if it never happened. You can dislike a behaviour of a person but like other parts of them.

We could go on all night mind mumbling this and getting horribly confused.

[rkzenrage]

I think forgiveness is very important, but only for yourself. One should never forgive until they are ready (too often we do it because we WANT to forgive, get that feeling of release and let go a anger before we actually CAN let it go) or one will resent themselves for doing it or even blame the other party for the forgiveness "not working/taking" (projection).
Another mistake IMO is the idea that forgiveness is some kind of "gift" to the other or you are deeming to forgive. It is never about the other, regardless how much they may ask for it... it is only about yourself or it is a lie.

[Travelling Blackbird]

I agree, forgiveness is neither a gift, nor something that happens outside of you. I believe that the forgiveness is most important for the person doing the forgiving. It's about moving on. In that respect, I think it is equally difficult or equally easy, depending how you look at it, to forgive someone whether they are alive or dead, because the act of forgiving them doesn't need to involve them. To forgive is to let go of anger and move on, and that can be done alone, in therapy, over someone's grave, or to their photo.

However, if you're looking for a response, closure, a reason... then I can only see it working if the person is alive, unless there's someone who's speaking for them. If you need to look at the person and say "why?" to be able to forgive them, or need to see the shame in their eyes when you forgive them, then they have to be there. I will admit, I don't think that this kind of closure is all it's cracked up to be. There have been three men in my life who hurt me badly. If I'd had the chance to see them and ask them why, to be honest, I don't think I would've liked the answers, and I don't think I'd have gotten closure.

And closure or reasons are not forgiveness.

Have I forgiven them? Not in so many words, but I have left them behind. They are poorer than I am - I have friends and there is love in my life.

It does no good to carry around anger or sadness or disappointment unless you have something to channel those emotions into. It helped me to be angry in the early days in hospital, because it stopped me from giving up: it gave me some fight. Later, that anger just got in the way of me moving on, so I had to let go of it, get rid of it, and move on.

[Trinity]

Forgiveness does not come easy to me. There are people who I have fallen out with on one occasion or another and I do not hold a grudge against them, life is too short. I guess for me it depends on the magnitude of the act that was committed against me.

There are two people that spring to mind that have hurt me badly, one is now dead and the other alive. I cannot see that I will ever forgive them as such, I just do not dwell on it, and until this thread I hadn’t thought about it for a long time. I am no longer angry about either situation and it no longer affects me in the ways it did.

Forgiveness is about closure I suppose, I admire those people who meet their attackers etc in prison and talk to them about how what they did affected them and it seems to generally end up with the victims forgiving the attackers.

Would I be in a better place mentally if I chose forgiveness? I don’t know. You have to be ready and willing to forgive someone to make the act truly beneficial, I have never been ready to forgive them. Should I have counseling etc to work through my feelings? Maybe at the time it would have worked, now I feel that dragging up past memories would do me more harm than good and as I am no longer really affected by it, then what is the point?

[greybeard]

Reading these posts has made me realize how incredibly lucky I've been as I cannot remember ever having been hurt enough to cause me great trauma, despite one failed marriage. That was dying anyway and although it prompted many changes in my life it wasn't too painful.

Basically I've never had reason to forgive anyone for causing me huge hurt but knowing my nature, I suppose I would be a little like Trin and find it difficult to forgive easily. I'm always sceptical of those who profess to forgive even the most vicious of actions against them or those dearest to them.

If I knew that someone had deliberately harmed one of my grandchildren, for example, my first and probably lasting desire, would be to cause the attacker considerable suffering. Certainly not the politically correct answer, but I can't imagine me reacting in any other way.

Edited by greybeard, 26 February 2009 - 04:07 PM.

[Emily74]

's for everyone.

Blackbird, you make a great point. I have been hurt very horribly. Today though, I am free to wake up in my own home, surrounded by people I love, and live a life free of fear and dread. I get to move on. I am amazed how different my life is today. And when I start to get emotional/angry about the past, I remind myself of that. However, my mother and her boyfriend, they are still just as bad off as they ever were, and frankly I'm glad to be me and not them. I get to move on in a way that would be much harder for them to be able to do. They have had to twist things up in such warped ways in order to be able to function. I am free of that. I don't have to twist anything at all. I get to to live a genuinely honest life. My attackers are their own victims now.

Trinity, I can relate to so much of what you say. I remember there was a time, where I felt like if I even attempted to heal, I would go insane and have to be commited. It was too much. It can't be forced, and it takes time. But you and me, today, we are safe, and those who hurt us, can no longer hurt us. We are free from them. We need to be content with the progress we make. Little by little as you are ready is the way to go. We are ok now, and we are safe.

Rkzenrage, I agree.

Nomis, you made many good points. Forgiving doesn't necessarily mean saying what they did was OK. Of course it wasn't OK. Once I realized that, it was easier for me.