71 replies to this topic

[asilver]

Wow they've thought of everything already haha.

I do feel like with a few changes, mainly to the handle design, a system similar to this could be beneficial to the sport.

I guess it's back to the drawing boards for now...

Christiann, from your experience is there anything about your chair that you wish was different or improved. Do you see any limitations or restrictions that exist within the sport?

I really want to make sure I focus on the important aspects of this chair design, so we can see this sport progress even further!!

Edited by asilver, 28 April 2009 - 04:51 PM.

[a la carte]

asilver, on Apr 28 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

Christiann, from your experience is there anything about your chair that you wish was different or improved. Do you see any limitations or restrictions that exist within the sport?

I really want to make sure I focus on the important aspects of this chair design, so we can see this sport progress even further!!

Interesting thread.

What are the most common or harmful injuries? Maybe you could include pioneering safety aspects.

[asilver]

Great point A La Carte. Saftey is definitely going to have to play an important role in this design. I know that there are many people who would choose not try this sport strictly due to it's dangerous perception.

Christiaan, if you have taken any hard hits while wheelchair skating I'd love to hear about them...

I also updated the blog with the flex-trispoke. Let me know what you all think.

Thanks,

Adam

Edited by asilver, 29 April 2009 - 06:25 PM.

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

asilver, on Apr 28 2009, 08:53 AM, said:

Christiaan, from your experience is there anything about your chair that you wish was different or improved. Do you see any limitations or restrictions that exist within the sport?

Well as I said before, our biggest problem is keeping our speed once we do drop in. However, I think developing a sound suspension system is far more useful than changing the drive system.

asilver, on Apr 29 2009, 09:36 AM, said:

Christiaan, if you have taken any hard hits while wheelchair skating I'd love to hear about them...

I've sprained both my wrists, broken my thumb twice and dislocated my left knee...The worst was when I went in for X-Rays 3 months ago and found that one of my screws had slipped out and I had to have it re-screwed and cemented.

asilver, on Apr 29 2009, 09:36 AM, said:

I also updated the blog with the flex-trispoke. Let me know what you all think.

Now that's sick!!!... I'd totally rock that rim out at the park! Have you tried working the elastomer into the hub yet? If so, i'd imagine your going to want to go with a taller hub flange to support it...But thats damn cool looking rim!

Edited by Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO), 29 April 2009 - 10:15 PM.

[edlee]

Have either you or Christiaan thought about,, for the purpose of a little extra speed,, placing an additional pushrim, of a smaller diameter, on each wheel.

Similar to a racing chair's pushrim. It would only be used to add a bit of exceleration after initial push.

It would add weight and width, but it might also add a bit of control.
ed

Both of those wheels are something I would be proud to have on my chair,,, but I DO like that single spoke.

[asilver]

Edlee, thats a great idea. My only worry about the second pushrim is the difficultly of grabbing the pushrim after you've gained some speed. However, if the rim had some sort of free wheel mechanism that allowed it to stay still until pushed, that may make it easier.

Christiaan, sorry to hear about the screw coming loose. That sounds painful.

Thank you both for the kind words towards the wheels!

I updated the blog with a concept that would allow the rider to pump the suspension to create momentum while riding. Everyone can check it out here and let me know what they think. Sorry for another idea with handles in it haha.

Suspension concept

[araitn]

Loving the Flex Tri Spoke wheel!

[asilver]

Aratin that's awesome to hear, thank you!

Christiaan, I've got a couple more questions for you... Just wondering how often you adjust your seating position and how frequently you adjust your suspension settings. Just curious about how accessible I need to make these components. Also, wondering if you've had any trouble with that beautiful carbon fiber seat back getting messed up at all from crashing?

Hope your having an awesome weekend, and I hope to hear from you soon.

Thanks,

Adam

Edited by asilver, 03 May 2009 - 09:04 AM.

[Jax]

I wish wheelchair manufacturers listened to the SCI community the way you are.

That single spoke wheel looks SWEET!!! If you ever get them into production, let me know. I'd love to have those. But I'd take the split-3 spokes, because they're hot too.

The handrims you have shown are even better design than the Natural-Fit ones I have. When I bought mine, they were supposed to be "extra-grip" coated, but they weren't really "grippy" enough for me. I had the outside flat surface and outer curved area coated with Line-X. If the rims came precoated as you described, they would be much easier to use, and the protective anodized layer is great too. I don't do chair skating (Not enough balance or flexibility), but those rims would be a great help to lots of people, myself included. Particularly for those with less hand/finger function, or those (like me) who just can't seem to avoid hitting stuff and grinding the rims all the time.

If you ever decide to start a custom chair shop, I'll be plenty happy to be one of your test monkeys. You've got some cool ideas, and you are going about designing the chair in the right way-by asking what is needed. And you going into a skate park in a hospital style chair is totally ballsy man. That's the hardest kind of chair to use for anything, let alone for chair skating.

Take Care,

JAX

Edited by Jax, 04 May 2009 - 09:32 PM.

[asilver]

Hey Jax,

I'm so glad that you like the designs so far. It is a really great feeling to have such positive feedback. It's going to be a while until any full scale protoypes go into production, but as I said before, everyone here will be the first to get their hands on them. Your feedback is great and so incredibly helpful to me. I'm suprised there's not more companies looking into these communities.

Thank you so much, and please keep the feedback coming!

Adam

[asilver]

Hey guys,

The blog has just been updated with a design for the front casters and the frame. Please check it out and let me know what you all think. The designs are still concepts and can definitely be changed, so tell me anything you think. Good and bad.

Check them out here
Hope everyone is well and having a nice mother's day!

Thanks,

Adam

[edlee]

Adam,

The massive look of the tubes, while possibly heavier, makes this frame look even more impressive. Using those non-symetrical shapes for the tubes is als thought provoking,,,, how much does the shape of the material used, make the fabrication more difficult??

Would it be possible to get an exploded view of your casters,, or would you consider that proprietary info??? I'm just curious about what goes where.

I'm really looking forward to seeing your prototype chair,,,, just don't hurt yourself with it.
ed

[Texaswheelz]

I've love to give those front casters a roll. Frame looks pretty sharp, I'm ready to take one for a ride.

[twisted_ophelia]

Adam, it looks AWESOME!!

[asilver]

Hey guys,

Really glad to hear you're all liking it so far!

Edlee, the new design of the tubing as well as the use of butting, allows for thinner wall thickness with extreme strength, so there should be no added weight. This involves using a custom extrusion, which does cost more than buying standard pre-made tubing, but would provide tremendous benefits. This is commonly done in bicycle design, however has yet to be applied to wheelchair design... I can also get you an exploded view of the caster in a couple days, as soon as I get a little more time.

Thanks for all the feedback... I will have some more stuff up there for you guys soon.

Adam

Edited by asilver, 12 May 2009 - 03:35 AM.

[araitn]

asilver, on May 11 2009, 11:35 PM, said:

Hey guys,

Really glad to hear you're all liking it so far!

Edlee, the new design of the tubing as well as the use of butting, allows for thinner wall thickness with extreme strength, so there should be no added weight. This involves using a custom extrusion, which does cost more than buying standard pre-made tubing, but would provide tremendous benefits. This is commonly done in bicycle design, however has yet to be applied to wheelchair design... I can also get you an exploded view of the caster in a couple days, as soon as I get a little more time.

Thanks for all the feedback... I will have some more stuff up there for you guys soon.

Adam

Hey Adam, I'm really liking your design ideas (wheels, frame, suspension), but I need to correct you on the above statement concerning the utilization of extrusion in wheelchair design. Marvelis currently using extrusion and buttingin their wheelchair frame.

I have a Marvel and I really like it; however, I don't think it will appeal to everyone because it deviates from the wheelchair frame design that has been in place for many years..... the single walled tubular design. The Marvel doesn't have the "standard" tubes running beside the user's knees and lower legs. On the other hand, your design appears to use the best of both the old standby design and Marvel's current design. I think if your design continues to maintain the traditional look, while incorporating the extruded tubes, it will be appealing to most users.

Keep up the nice work and keep us posted!

(I'm still planning to upload some photos of my chair, but I've not been able to manage the time.)

[asilver]

Aratin, thanks for the link. The marvel wheelchair seems like a pretty incredible chair. I'm glad to see someone taking advantage of this technology. I can always appreciate a unique design such as that. Whenever you get some time I would love to see some pictures of yours.

I'm really glad your liking the design so far, later tonight I should have some more stuff for you to check out.

[asilver]

Hey everyone,

The design is moving along, and I will have some final renderings of it for you in a day or two! I just updated the blog with the final cushion design, which uses both foam and impact gel. I was able to get a large sample of the impact gel and do a little testing with it. I felt a signifcant difference both in the park and just rolling around on the sidewalks. It was tested using a solid seat attached to the frame. It was dificult to guage the improvments with the gel used on "hammock" style seating. As always, please let me know what you think of the design, your input is vital!

Cushion Design

Thanks,

Adam

[edlee]

Combining the seat and the cushion is interesting,,, you might consider making the lighter colored portions, interchangable, so as to change the shape,,,, both to improve stability, and protection from pressure or shear sores.

Maybe even air chambers that could be inflated once in the chair, to help hold the rider in place,,,, like the old pump up basketball shoes.

When is this design assignment due? I kinda like feeling a part of the process.
ed

[asilver]

Hey Edlee,

Sorry for the confusion, but the seat and the cushions will still be separate. There is a solid base attached directly to the frame that this cushion does rest upon. I really like the idea of having the cushion inserts interchangeable. That would allow the user to customize for comfort and for style. I looked into the air cushion, and I think they may be too fragile for this sort of application, you don't want something that could puncture being thrown around the skatepark. However if we used the interchangeable inserts, this could be an option for users more focused on comfort.

The project is officially due on May 28th, so I'm hustling at this point. My hope is, if this design keeps going the way it has been, I could build a prototype over the summer. And believe me Edlee, you are all a very big part of this process.

Thanks as always and keep the feedback coming!

[Texaswheelz]

I don't think the person that would be using this chair would need to worry to much about pressure sores, they are going to be moving actively, which will do the job in preventing them. I like the seat design, anything with a solid base. The companies making chairs with a sling bottom and then putting a damn peace of plywood inside your seat cover and charging $70 are just freaking nuts. Then of course you can go spend $300+ on a carbon fiber solid base if you want. I've come up with any idea of my on for a solid base, much cheaper, light and strong.

[asilver]

Luckily this frame design does allow for a solid base plate that would be sturdy using a wide range of different materials throughout the price. Tonight I will upload a work in progress shot that shows how it's set up.

I was wondering where Christiaan has been lately, when I stumbled upon this posting on Aaron Fotheringham's website. Check it here I'm pumped to see him out there on tour doing what he does best and spreading the word about this sport! Maybe everyone knew that already, but I figured I would spread the word and be the first to congratulate him.

Adam

Edited by asilver, 19 May 2009 - 11:25 PM.

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

asilver, on May 19 2009, 04:24 PM, said:

Luckily this frame design does allow for a solid base plate that would be sturdy using a wide range of different materials throughout the price. Tonight I will upload a work in progress shot that shows how it's set up.

I was wondering where Christiaan has been lately, when I stumbled upon this posting on Aaron Fotheringham's website. Check it here I'm pumped to see him out there on tour doing what he does best and spreading the word about this sport! Maybe everyone knew that already, but I figured I would spread the word and be the first to congratulate him.

Adam

Hey there everyone, sorry I have'nt been on in a little while...As Adam has pointed out, i've been on tour the past few weeks. It looks like you've been making fantastic progress on your design's Adam, both aaron and I are impressed!...How did your final design end up working out?

[asilver]

Christiaan,

It's awesome to hear back from you, it looks like the tour was a pretty big success! I'm glad you like everything so far, and that Aaron got a chance to check it out too. I'm sorry it's been so long since I updated the blog. It got a little chaotic at the end of the quarter while trying to finish everything up. I just updated the blog with the final rendering of the chair all together. There is a lot of details on the chair I haven't gotten to explain yet, so I will be posting a detailed process book in the next day to make everything clear. Though the quarter has ended, this is a project I am hoping to keep working on, if there is enough interest.

As always let me know what you think! Don't be afraid to tell me what you don't like.

And again, thank you all for your help with everything guys!

Check it out here

Adam

[DaveP]

Very impressive looking chair!

Just out of curiosity, but how much do you think it would cost to build your chair? I ask this purely out of curiosity and to see how it compares to the prices some manufacturers are asking.

[edlee]

I can only hope, Adam, that your professors were as impressed as I. Well done.
ed

[Santa Cruz Soul Surfer (LRO)]

You know Adam, i'm a designer and custom fabricator myself and am seldom impressed...But I have to say, you've seriously impressed the shit out of me with this design!!!! You're consummate attention to not just functionality but also style, has literally left me speechless in this instance! Truly one of the most beautiful wheelchair designs i've ever seen, my hat is off to you sir!!!






After spending the better part of a hour looking at these two renderings, I see only three things that need revision...1. the seatback needs to be 2" inches higher at least, to maximize the trunk leverage while maneuvering. 2. A clearing through to the head tube to allow for easy replacement of front caster bearings. And 3, buckle footstraps to keep the persons legs in place while dropping/turning...Aside from those three things, I can't find anything on your design that would need improvement. Damn fine work!!!

[Texaswheelz]

I agree, very impressive work. I think you really do need to consider trying to produce these and not just doing this for a class project.

I do agree with a higher back, I don't know how well those tiny front casters would do on the ramps and skates parks, but not practical for every day use, they'd get caught in even the smallest cracks and it needs a bit more dip. IE, the back of the seat needs to be setting lower then the front then what it is.

If that chair was being produced today and I was shopping for one, i would highly consider this over anything else out there atm.

[CR_L1]

Texaswheelz, on Jun 8 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

If that chair was being produced today and I was shopping for one, i would highly consider this over anything else out there atm.

I second that.
cool chair

[twisted_ophelia]

Welcome back, Christiaan! Awesome photos!

And Adam... WOW. I am so impressed with your design. If that chair was available, I would want one. It honestly looks like pretty much the coolest chair I've ever seen, better than Marvel, Colours, that $10,000 limited Ti Lite one, etc. Agree with Christiaan about the backrest needing to be a bit higher. I'm a T8 and have issues even at my injury level with a back that's just about an inch too low for my trunk function (currently use a Corbac from Ride Designs). A couple inches can really make a difference.