[Lucydog]

Im looking into sueing a very well known institution over lack of ( non existent) disabled access and wonder if anyone has any experience of this? I dont want to be too specific on a public forum but if anyone is interested or wants to know more let me know.

Cheers
L

[edlee]

Don't know if it works the same on you side of the sea, but here, if the place is old enough, it doesn't have to meet the access requirements till it does a major renovation. At least that's what has happened,,, or should I say, not happened to a few place around here.

It seems that the difference between a major renovation and a minor alteration, is the whim of the judge on the day it comes before him.
ed

[Lucydog]

No It doesnt Ed. There is very little excuse for not providing at least some sort of access even in a grade 1 listed building.

[edlee]

Apparantly you law is better than ours, Lucy,,, cause that's pretty much the size of it here. Although there is a paralyzed lawyer making a living from traveling about the country sueing evryone he can find in violation of our ADA.

He does quite well, I hear, because most of the big guys settle out of court. He gets paid and nothing gets done,,, but that is how our court system seems to work, most of the time.

I hope you succeed.
ed

[Kev-O]

There is a place i go to luch at once a week like lucy said im not going to say its name on here but they have a shit ramp to get in the building. Does anyone know the law's on ramps here in the states?

[Califanna]

Kev-O, on Apr 21 2009, 02:51 PM, said:

There is a place i go to luch at once a week like lucy said im not going to say its name on here but they have a shit ramp to get in the building. Does anyone know the law's on ramps here in the states?

Well, if they provide access then it must be to code. That is it must abide by the regulations set forth in the ADA: "The maximum slope of a ramp in new construction shall be 1:12". However, if it is existing constructon, the owner could get away with a 1:10 to 1:12; if space is limited. Further, the surface of the ramp must be safe, not of a slippery material. Next there must be a curb or railing to prevent you from falling off. Lastly, where the ramp is attached to the landings at the top and bottom, the surface must be without dips, bumps or any obstructions from allowing you a safe access and descent point.

If you want more information, just check out the ADA regs.: http://www.access-bo.../html/adaag.htm

Here's the article about the guy, Jarek Molski, who sues everyone, but doesn't actually get things changed for the better.
http://dayinwashington.com/?p=11

[Yong]

what's the deal with people that won't disclose the names of these places? grow an effin pair and tell people who live with it just as you do.

if there really is an issue with accessibility, wouldn't you want other wheelchair rollers to know about it?

shit...i know one...Georgia Perimeter College Dunwoody Campus...the building that does all the parking passes DOES NOT have any access points. It's like an island and has an 8" curb all around it without a ramp cut out.

[greybeard]

Yong, on Apr 22 2009, 04:38 AM, said:

what's the deal with people that won't disclose the names of these places? grow an effin pair and tell people who live with it just as you do.

if there really is an issue with accessibility, wouldn't you want other wheelchair rollers to know about it?

The OP is taking the action to force "a well known institution" to comply with the access law, for the benefit of all disabled people.

You have to understand that in the UK, she would jeopardise her chances of succeeding with the lawsuit if details were discussed before the case comes to court.

What would be the point of that?

You have to also understand that here, there is no authority to enforcement disabled access legislation. Ridiculous as it is, enforcement can only be applied by a court on the successful application of a disabled person who has been physically unable to enter a place because of the lack of wheelchair ramps etc. Crazy, but that's the way it is.

This post has been edited by greybeard: 22 April 2009 - 07:17 AM

[Yong]

greybeard, on Apr 22 2009, 03:09 AM, said:

Yong, on Apr 22 2009, 04:38 AM, said:

what's the deal with people that won't disclose the names of these places? grow an effin pair and tell people who live with it just as you do.

if there really is an issue with accessibility, wouldn't you want other wheelchair rollers to know about it?

The OP is taking the action to force "a well known institution" to comply with the access law, for the benefit of all disabled people.

You have to understand that in the UK, she would jeopardise her chances of succeeding with the lawsuit if details were discussed before the case comes to court.

Please explain further. How would allowing people to know that a certain place is not accessible be any hindrance in her lawsuit against this place? It certainly won't be libel if indeed the palace is not accessible.

I'm sure if the person wanted to seek monetary gain from the courts for the inconvenience the inaccessibility has caused him/her, it would not be wise to disclose specifics about the case. But if this is to get the courts to mandate the renovation of a building for accessibility to ALL people, it seems not only wise but imperative to allow the public know about it...to get EVERYONE to notice it.

[greybeard]

Yong, on Apr 22 2009, 02:23 PM, said:

Please explain further.

Perhaps. After the case is heard, and if the OP confides in me.

[jules]

Hi Luce

My Hubby Neil, is a chartered surveyor and has done alot of work with DDA compliance, I will ask him what the best course of action is, I'm not sure if he will know but I'll ask anyway.

x

[russ1]

As I understand it in the UK while there are rules about what should be provided the teeth of the law is very limited - your best bet (unless you can interest the disability commission - doubtful) is to take the company / institution to the small claims court for damages as hurt to your feelings. This won't force them to change their access arrangements but will cost them a few quid and be a huge embarrassment. Should just cost you £80 which you get back if you win i think and no opposition costs liability. You should be able to do the whole thing yourself. Of course if they they lose and don't change you can take them back to court the next time they hurt your feelings!

Russ

[ems]

I've done both, Ive taken a pub to the small claims court, he paid up and I got the newspaper to take some photos after the *event.., a few weeks later the matter wasnt resolved and there was no planning notice put up so I phone the council just to make sure.. they said nothing had been asked for.. so I did it through the DDA, got to the stage where the mediators have meetings with him and I, and embarressment won... he removed the steps and put a really nice ramp in, and it was.. lovely. I went back the week after it was done and spent the money I'd won in small calims there.. matter resolved and we were friends once again ;)

I started taking my local train station to court as I could only get a train in on direction, and couldnt come back on it.. letters flew past over 2 months, they told me they were to be finished our stage of the railway in 2010.... I phoned the paper.. wrote an article and the very next week I was going past the station and the builders were in ;) three days later it was finished and I had a letter stating what they had done the following week. I wrote back and thanked them

I've taken a train conductor to court too for not letting me off the train. He told me I was not allowed to leave the train at Brighton station without assistance. Btw I had got on without assistance, I told him that I used Brighton station alot, and have never needed any help. I did thank him for being helpful, and I told him if I did think I needed help I would most certainly ask. He told me there would be a 10 inch gap at the station between tyhe platform and the train. I told him that physics wouldnt allow me to get stuck in something that was smaller than my back wheel. So I sat by the door waiting to press the button, and he called the cops!! He told them I had physically stopped him from doing his job. I told the Cops that he had physically stopped me getting off the train and to watch the CCTV images. The police allowed me to get off the train by myself and I was taken into the the managers office where they told me they would be arresting me with some train offence which sounded like a joke. So I told them to bring it on!!! I was then told that there was policies in place for getting wheelchairs off trains.. and then the manager said something stupid .. he told me it was at the conductors discretion!!!

I got a letter in the post two weks after this event, and they told me that I had to appear at a hearing the next month.. I attended.. and when I got there, I was told it wouldnt be going any further, and as long as I didnt put anyone in danger by my * jumping* off the train, I could continue to do so. I came home with 6 months worth of free travel and £500 as a sorry ;)
The conductor wrote to me a few weeks after that and apologised, he said he had never seen anyone jump off the train in a wheelchair , not when the drop was quite hgh and the gap was quite big..and if he ever saw me again, he would apologise in person! I never did see him again though ;)


Take them to court, some ppl just dont learn without a kick up the arse!!!!

russ1, on Apr 23 2009, 02:29 PM, said:

As I understand it in the UK while there are rules about what should be provided the teeth of the law is very limited - your best bet (unless you can interest the disability commission - doubtful) is to take the company / institution to the small claims court for damages as hurt to your feelings. This won't force them to change their access arrangements but will cost them a few quid and be a huge embarrassment. Should just cost you £80 which you get back if you win i think and no opposition costs liability. You should be able to do the whole thing yourself. Of course if they they lose and don't change you can take them back to court the next time they hurt your feelings!

Russ

This post has been edited by ems: 23 April 2009 - 08:07 PM

[jules]

I spoke to my hubby last night, and he said the same thing as Russ, and Ems saying that Small claims court is the best way legally, but that negative publicity is generally the best way to get things sorted!

Hope this helps
xx

[edlee]

Ems,,, you are my hero!!!!!
ed

[JENB85]

Anyone in here in the Los Angeles area? I can definetly help you with any accessibility issue you may have encountered. Message me if interested!!!

[redryder49]

Not to overlook an easy solution. Have you ever talked to the place about it. Maybee it isnt something they haven't really considered, I know that they should of but didn't. Go talk to the place and talk to them. Be polite and considerate and maybee you will get some positive results

This post has been edited by redryder49: 03 June 2010 - 01:30 AM

[greybeard]

redryder49, on Jun 3 2010, 02:29 AM, said:

Not to overlook an easy solution. Have you ever talked to the place about it. Maybee it isnt something they haven't really considered, I know that they should of but didn't. Go talk to the place and talk to them. Be polite and considerate and maybee you will get some positive results

...........But then, you wouldn't get any money.

(Excuse me. My jaundiced view of humanity is getting the better of me.)

[Boozyuzi]

There's a guy up here in Scotland that was not happy about not having access to a toilet when he was in a local pub. He's started a campaign to force pub landlords and brewery chains to install ramps and improve toilet access in local pubs where it is reasonably possible.

His name is Mark Cooper and he was also a candidate for Orkney & Shetland in the recent general election. There is a Facebook campaign page + lots of info online if you do a search.

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100...4167&v=info

Well done Mark...

This post has been edited by Boozyuzi: 03 June 2010 - 03:09 PM

[Tinbasher]

The DDA (Disability Discrimination Act UK) and the ADA (Americans with Disabiliies Act USA) are quite different in key respects. As Greybeard says the UK act can only be used by disabled individuals against services to which they personally have been denied reasonable access. The test of reasonableness depends on the size of the institution its resources and if it is a historical building the reasonableness of the adaptations. To discuss this in a public place risks giving the institution a heads up to the issues in hand.