17 replies to this topic

[fastwheels]

one of the care workers who works for the company i use said a races remark i was so angry about this i report it to the care company, they said i was a mistake this person said i wasn’t here happy with the answer they give me so i report it to the local council with they are under contract with them the council where investigating them due to this person said the care company phoned me up at 17.30 this Friday gone & said they are not doing my calls now because ive put a complaint about them this means i had no care worker to do my calls over the weekend

how can i get this company band from the area which they work


fastweels

[edlee]

The first thing you do is lodge another complaint about their leaving you high and dry. If the racism doesn't get results, the negligence certainly should.

Did you happen to make the person who made the remark, aware of your feelings about racism? You will never, as long as you aren't hiring you own carers, be able to avoid racists,, they are everywhere, but you can avoid hearing their venom by making them aware of you feelings in that regard.

Is it that you want this person fired because of their feelings about another race? Or just because they showed their feelings in a private setting. I'm sure that that person would not have said what they did if they thought it would offend you. You won't change their mind by getting them fired,, simply give them something else to hate.

Was there something else about the carer or the company that you were displeased with? Were they less than professional with you other than the one remark?

There is a saying about frying pans and fire,,, keep it in mind.
ed

[E-DOG]

Interesting.
Before anything can I ask...if I may,
How old are you?
What race are you?
and
What was the remark? Just to get an idea how nasty it was.

As you can see, complaints to a C/G service could turn around and bite you on the ass.
Squeek enough times and you'll get a reputation as a complainer and no one will want to work for you. Even if you're right.
Right, wrong, good or bad, a company will very often take the side of an employee in a case like this. In public they'll be protective of "their own" and
maybe more vituperative back at the office. Could be difficult to find employees willing to do that type of work where you're at. Who knows.

Of course any racist remark either said in front of, or directed at a patient is offensive to say the least, depending on the circumstances and shameful, demeaning and threatening in some cases. But you need to know when to pick your battles.

If you truly believe the remark was that horrible, offensive, threatening to your well being, then talk to a social worker or a lawyer. Maybe you've got a civil suit on your hands.

Getting the entire company banned from your area, or perhaps put out of business based on your complaint alone is gonna be a tough one.
The way things are, and the way things should be can be very diverging concepts indeed. Sometimes we gotta shut up an' bite the bullet when folks say something stupid. They are, after all just words coming out of someone's mouth. By themselves they can't hurt you, no matter how awful they are.
Unless you let them.

E

[a la carte]

E-DOG, on Apr 26 2009, 09:05 PM, said:

Interesting.
Before anything can I ask...if I may,
How old are you?
What race are you?
and
What was the remark? Just to get an idea how nasty it was.

As you can see, complaints to a C/G service could turn around and bite you on the ass.
Squeek enough times and you'll get a reputation as a complainer and no one will want to work for you. Even if you're right.
Right, wrong, good or bad, a company will very often take the side of an employee in a case like this. In public they'll be protective of "their own" and
maybe more vituperative back at the office. Could be difficult to find employees willing to do that type of work where you're at. Who knows.

Of course any racist remark either said in front of, or directed at a patient is offensive to say the least, depending on the circumstances and shameful, demeaning and threatening in some cases. But you need to know when to pick your battles.

If you truly believe the remark was that horrible, offensive, threatening to your well being, then talk to a social worker or a lawyer. Maybe you've got a civil suit on your hands.

Getting the entire company banned from your area, or perhaps put out of business based on your complaint alone is gonna be a tough one.
The way things are, and the way things should be can be very diverging concepts indeed. Sometimes we gotta shut up an' bite the bullet when folks say something stupid. They are, after all just words coming out of someone's mouth. By themselves they can't hurt you, no matter how awful they are.
Unless you let them.

E

Well said.

[Slowlegs]

fastwheels, on Apr 26 2009, 11:09 PM, said:

one of the care workers who works for the company i use said a races remark i was so angry about this i report it to the care company, they said i was a mistake this person said i wasn’t here happy with the answer they give me so i report it to the local council with they are under contract with them the council where investigating them due to this person said the care company phoned me up at 17.30 this Friday gone & said they are not doing my calls now because ive put a complaint about them this means i had no care worker to do my calls over the weekend

how can i get this company band from the area which they work


fastweels

Hi Fastwheels, it may be company or council policy for them to not send anyone if a complaint is made as there could perceivably be safety issues for you or the carer if there are unresolved issues. It doesn't mean they are doing it because they are trying to be malicious. I agree with E-dog, nobody should take racist, sexist or other such comments. Doesn't mean we shouldn't bite our tongues sometimes too though, no matter how hard that is.

[fastwheels]

the care worker said chink & my wife is chinese so i take this very offensive this care worker said it in front of my wife


fastwheels

Edited by fastwheels, 27 April 2009 - 06:20 PM.

[JT80]

abreviations for country of origin are a tricky one - there seems to be no hard and fast rule as to what is acceptable. i am british, if someone calls me a brit/pommy etc i don't find it offensive and other abreviations like aussie, yank, jock, paddy, kiwi, taff, frog, iti etc seem to be 'fairly acceptable' but others such as paki and chink etc are deemed more offensive although are only shortened forms of the country of origin.
if anything you hear is offensive, then say so to the offending party. if repeated then maybe its a little different but on a one of maybe chill out a bit.

[E-DOG]

1. Is there another C/G company in the area you can use. If so, call 'em, use 'em, and forget what they said. Just LET IT GO.

2. If that's the only company that you can use you better call them, make nice, try to get them back, and make sure they don't send the same person
because you have "personal issues" with that particular C/G.

3. The last thing you should do is cut off your nose to spite your face. In principal, what the C/G said was wrong, obviously. In practice, if you continue
to complain you're gonna end up without the care you need.

Sit back for a minute and think about it. Consider the ramifications. In a week or two you and the wife can sit back and laugh at this whole thing. Joke with yourselves about what complete ASSHOLES some C/G's are, maybe take a piss in his lunchtime soda-pop before you hand it to them.

No point in winning a battle just to loose the war.
Or go out and get a shot gun, LEAVE NO MAN STANDING. When you're done turn it on yourself. That'll show the suckers who's boss by gum!
'Course it'll leave quite the mess for your wife to clean up, but what the hell, you WILL have made your point.

E-dog

[Tim13]

I suppose "Chink" is one of those words like the "N" word that's "Ok if we say it"? Was it prefaced by "kill the" or something else threatening? Is your wife as hurt by this word as you? Personally, I doubt it but if she is, she should be the one to launch the complaint
With all due respect, you have too much time on your hands if you're allowing a word to bother you so much.

[qbounce]

I've run across a few bad caregivers in the short time I've been injured. Most weren't that attentive. Some even complained to me about THEIR lives and problems, while I'm the one in the chair. No matter, I just called the office and asked that they not send those undesirable carers back my way, and give them the reason/s why.

I figure, pretty soon the office will either run out of places to send 'em, or they'll streighten up and grab some good common sense and actually do their job. Either way, I wouldn't have to worry about it anymore. I actually ended up with some pretty good carers that way . . . . enough to marry one!

My fiance's Asian too. And, although I know it would certainly upset me, I'm not sure you have a leg to stand on (so to speak) by accusing an entire company of racism for one bigoted individual's slur?

[aussie_rachel]

Tim13, on Apr 28 2009, 06:41 AM, said:

With all due respect, you have too much time on your hands if you're allowing a word to bother you so much.

It's not "just" a word. Every word in the dictionary is "just" a word. I find your disrespect to this guy's distress just a little rude. I have almost no spare time on my hands and things people say still bother me every now and again. So in this case a little empathy wouldn't go astray.

[E-DOG]

aussie_rachel, on May 3 2009, 05:45 AM, said:

Tim13, on Apr 28 2009, 06:41 AM, said:

With all due respect, you have too much time on your hands if you're allowing a word to bother you so much.

I have almost no spare time on my hands and things people say still bother me every now and again.

My dear, those things people say that bother you?
They bother you because you make the decision (conscious or otherwise) to let them bother you.

Thoughts, feelings, behavior. Mine are my responsibility.
Yours are?

E

[bantughost]

We very often sanitise this by calling it “racism”. It seems that this term has a somewhat softer ring to it. The more appropriate term for it is “hate speech.” I doubt if anyone seriously believes people who use any of the words alluded to above use them because they are just trying to abbreviate or shorten certain nouns, or defer to these words as terms of endearment. If it’s meant to be hateful, you know what it is even before you say it, and you know what it is as soon as you hear it, choice or decision has nothing to do with it. It’s that pure and simple if you’ve ever been on the receiving end; racist, sexist or any other “ists,” you would know. There should be zero tolerance for it.

Sir, if indeed that care giver in question did call your wife what you are alleging they did, I am pretty sure it wasn’t said in kindness. You know it, I know it, most people here know it and so did the person who uttered the words. You did the right thing to report the incident and, in my opinion, you should follow it through to its logical conclusion. Quite what that is in the legal sense depends on you and your legal counsel. You may want an apology from the caregiver and the company, or to have the individual fired, I don’t know? I am not familiar with how these things work, but if care workers are licensed professionals, then maybe you might want to look into the individual’s licence being suspended or revoked, I’m not sure about that either? You seem - as you have every right to be - very angry about the incident still. I suggest you set out clearly thought out goals and objectives on what you want from this before you proceed any further.

That said, the agency should take responsibility for the people it hires and their conduct on the job. They are providing a service a service and they should be held to a certain standard because, whether it’s coming directly from your own pocket or from the taxpayers’, someone is paying for the service they are providing. “There’s no such thing as a fee lunch.” Maybe the caregiver felt they are doing you a favour (giving you a “free lunch” so to speak) by providing you with a care?

Do you think if a waiter/waitress, a receptionist, nurse, doctor or any other service sector worker, for example, slurred someone in a work environment that they would be allowed to get away with it? If not, why shouldn’t this person be held to the same standard? By the way, I may have missed it, but I don’t think you were explicit enough about this, does the caregiver accept that they used the word but deny that it was meant as a “racist” slur or has this turned into one of those “Their word against yours” type things? If it’s a case of the latter, and they deny they said it completely, then things definitely are much more complicated to prove obviously.

That aside, I don’t agree that these are just mere words. For those people they are directed towards they carry the weight of a history as well as a potential of ill intent and possible violence. One can’t simply “decide” not to let the words affect them. The hateful vocabulary often precedes some form violence down the line as far as these things are concerned in certain instances. Take for instance a man who calls his wife or girlfriend what is usually construed as a dirty word. Depending on context, it could be taken as a kinky term of endearment in a sexual setting, right? But let’s be serious, “Come here you dirty little “%&*$#@” and give me some of your sugar” is quite obviously different from the more hateful and threatening vocabulary, albeit using the same nouns, which are common in a chronic abusive relationships. Depending on context, we can always tell when love or hate is implied when certain words are used, but I don’t think there is any context under which hate speech can be acceptable in a work setting. It is vile and inexcusable.

We frequently hear news stories of care givers who physically and/or psychologically abuse defenceless clients in nursing homes, private homes and other similar environs. What do you think the odds are that the signs are there before any of these things happen? Fortunately such abusive caregivers are in the minority, but the way I see it, if a person can be abusive on the basis of race, what’s to say they don’t have potential to be abusive to… hmm? I don’t know… off the top of my head? Let’s say towards some “crippled guy” in a wheelchair? What’s to say this guy will stop at being “just” being verbally abusive?

Thanks.

Ps

This last part is definitely not meant to be alarmist. You can disregard completely if it appears too over the top for you in the context of this discussion. I added it just as a “by the way” reference to highlight why these are never just words. Just try to peruse through the article if you can. You see even in the case of large scale mass murders like genocide, the words play a key role in the process. They are “stop” sign posts by the side of a road leading down a slippery slope. They shouldn’t be ignored off headedly or taken lightly.

[edlee]

While I'm sure there are verbal signposts, but any time I hear the term " zero tolerance" it makes me wonder just how tolerant that would be.

Words can be hurtful,,, always could,, the saying about sticks and stones is an old one. I can empathize with someone who is hurt by such an attack,,, if it was an attack.

The degree of reprisal should be tempered by the intent. To do otherwise would be akin to setting an example,,, an idea I find appalling. How do you feel about severing a limb because of theft?

I've never been good with analogies.
ed

[a la carte]

bantughost, on May 3 2009, 12:54 PM, said:

One can't simply "decide" not to let the words affect them.

Wrong.

[greybeard]

a la carte, on May 4 2009, 03:00 AM, said:

bantughost, on May 3 2009, 12:54 PM, said:

One can't simply "decide" not to let the words affect them.

Wrong.

Not just wrong. Foolish and wrong!

Edited by greybeard, 04 May 2009 - 07:16 AM.

[bantughost]

edlee, on May 4 2009, 04:13 AM, said:

While I'm sure there are verbal signposts, but any time I hear the term " zero tolerance" it makes me wonder just how tolerant that would be.

Words can be hurtful,,, always could,, the saying about sticks and stones is an old one. I can empathize with someone who is hurt by such an attack,,, if it was an attack.

The degree of reprisal should be tempered by the intent. To do otherwise would be akin to setting an example,,, an idea I find appalling. How do you feel about severing a limb because of theft?

I've never been good with analogies.
ed

Hi Ed,

Apart perhaps from our different interpretations of the term “Zero tolerance,” I am not quite sure where else we disagree here? My understanding of “Zero tolerance” is that we don’t just let incidents like the one “alleged” in this case go without taking some form of action. How tolerant should “Zero tolerance” be? As an analogy, let’s say as tolerant as “zero tolerance” for reckless driving under the influence for instance. My second grade teacher also had a “Zero tolerance” for people talking in class when they were supposed to be doing their sums and used to make those of us who couldn’t shut up stand in the corner for two minutes when ever she caught us yapping away. I know; totally different issue. I rubbish with analogies too.

Allow me to recap quickly. Fastwheels posted a topic to share an incident that he experienced. People were offering their advice and opinions and, based on the information at hand, I offered my own opinion and said: “You (fastwheels) did the right thing to report the incident and, in my opinion, you should follow it through to its logical conclusion. Quite what that is in the legal sense depends on you and your legal counsel. You may want an apology from the caregiver and the company, or to have the individual fired, I don’t know? I am not familiar with how these things work, but if care workers are licensed professionals, then maybe you might want to look into the individual’s licence being suspended or revoked, I’m not sure about that either? You seem - as you have every right to be - very angry about the incident still. I suggest you set out clearly thought out goals and objectives on what you want from this before you proceed any further.” I added this paragraph because I felt looking to get the whole company banned from the area was a bit much.

I didn’t mean any harm by offering my advice. Maybe I failed to express myself clearly enough the first time, this not being my first language and all? Please allow me to try again? What I merely meant to say the first time was that, “in my opinion,” (right, wrong or foolish - which ever the case may be) he “did the right thing to report the incident.” If because he did report the incident, someone’s limbs could end up chopped of as retribution for the alleged crime, then that’s just wrong. I am not for such archaic, brutal “Old Testament” archaic forms of punishment also; regardless of the person or what he/she said or did. I too believe “the degree of reprisal should be tempered by intent,” as well as by a show of remorse by the perpetrator and other similar reasons too numerous to mention here.

Yes, I clearly stated that fastwheels should follow the case through to its logical conclusion, but note that I also said I was not quite sure what that meant to him exactly in his situation. I ended that part by saying, “I suggest you (fastwheels) set out clearly thought out goals and objectives on what you want from this before you proceed any further.” I only had “two cents” to give and I gave it, that’s all.

As for the rest of what I said; most of it just went to stress “my” belief that, in the alleged situation, it was not just about hurtful words being said. It was not about one person calling another person’s way of thinking “foolish” because they disagreed over a matter of opinion, for example. Such words don’t bother me either, not really. Not for long anyways. I “decide” not to let them affect me. Like I said before, “If it’s meant to be hateful, you know what it is even before you say it, and you know what it is as soon as you hear it, choice or decision has nothing to do with it. It’s that pure and simple if you’ve ever been on the receiving end; racist, sexist or any other “ists,” you would know” intuitively what it is when you hear it. You also know when it isn’t any of these things, of course… “sticks and stones” and all and all.

"a la carte,” I’m sorry you only picked out that one phrase from all my rambling. I feel I went to great lengths to explain what I meant by, “One can’t simply “decide” not to let the words affect them.” I tried to put that phrase in the broader context of the particular topic at hand, and to highlight where certain words can be taken as “just words.” I further attempted to differentiate this scenario from situations where “I think” words are more than just words, based on my own personal beliefs and experiences. If I was not clear at all on that account, then I am afraid I can’t do much better.

I am not going to deny that I could be “wrong,” I am not infallible. However, I do NOT believe that I am wrong now in the context in which I laboured to put things. This is not because I think I am always right or being wrong or saying and doing wrong or “foolish” is beyond me for that matter, Greybeard, but… well thank you for sharing your opinions. I have learned much from them. Peace. Let’s just agree to disagree on this one and

[a la carte]

There are certainly times and situations where we might choose not to ignore them (especially hard, at times, with close loved ones, for example), but it really is a choice we make.