20 replies to this topic

[musical-poet]

Just so you know my font choice is an intentional thing.

Background of what happened and where i sit now...

I had decided to leave a girlfriend of 2 years for good and was scheduled to be on a ship for 8months. I figured that i'm not happy with the risks involved in one night stands so felt like a quick goodbye before setting sail.

I was happily "free" from this girl, lady i should say, in the hospital. My family helped keep her at bay, their help was needed as she had followed me rather disconcertingly on a previous break up.
I even managed to find myself a woman of my current dreams at that time. Then the dark matter hit the fan.

A couple of weeks out the hospital and about 2 months into a relationship with my dream the first lady called me and said she was pregnant.

No worries i thought, it had been about 5months since we were last together, pregnancy shows way before that.
I still cared and do care for her but was not in a mood to resume previous closeness.

My next step was that of sitting on the wire.
I talked too much with mom to be(with zero certainty it was mine) and didn't give proper commitment and advancement to the dream.
Eventually it got to birth, i was dumb/smart enough to be there and help support with delivery.
We then did dna tests and he was my son.

Now comes the hard part.

The mother said if i continued to date the dream she would make sure i would never see my son.

I'm a dumb boy for the next move.

I couldn't dump my dream so i acted all the boyfriend nightmares so she would dump me. Yes i should have explained all this to the dream and she since then has said she understands the whys.
Every move i tried to get further from the mother and everytime i said i wanted to see my son without her she keeps using subtle wording with the message that if i don't bow to her will i will lose my son.
I'd like to say (expletive deleted) you, you can't, the problem is i can't work enough to pay maintainence just yet so i won't be able to do the legal claim thing.
I tried to arrange to see a mediator but was told that it's "not needed, things are fine as they are" for 4months solid.

I don't want to be with this mother and i don't want to be where a friend is, four years since he's seen his daughter even though he does pay a monthly contribution to her upkeep.

I would love to know a legal way to leave the mother and still see my son. Any help or just random comments woulds make me feel better.

[twisted_ophelia]

Do you guys have joint custody in your country? It's very common for couples to share custody of a kid, even if you can't pay the child support money, I'm sure there are ways for you to legally see your son and not have anything to do with the mother. Best advice I think myself or anyone can give to you is to get yourself a lawyer and some legal advice from a professional who's on your side. Good luck.

[Slowlegs]

twisted_ophelia, on May 2 2009, 06:32 PM, said:

Do you guys have joint custody in your country? It's very common for couples to share custody of a kid, even if you can't pay the child support money, I'm sure there are ways for you to legally see your son and not have anything to do with the mother. Best advice I think myself or anyone can give to you is to get yourself a lawyer and some legal advice from a professional who's on your side. Good luck.

I agree although I am not sure about the lawyer just yet for anything but advice. They may have some community lawyers you can talk to. Perhaps try the family court and try for visits if you can't talk her round. Sounds like you already broke up with "the dream" for her, what more does she want from you. You mentioned she was bad news but she sounds like she is either a control freak or she is trying to punish you. I'd stay just as friends and if you can't get any sort of visitation or custody - go to court then and consider taking a lawyer with you.

Edited by Slowlegs, 03 May 2009 - 07:19 AM.

[Jax]

Sounds like the mother is a bit to the right of the median on the Hot-Crazy Scale...You said she's trouble, and from the story, I can gather that she's not only trouble, she's nuts. I don't mean to offend you by these statements. You can't help how she acts. Only she is responsible for her actions, whether she admits that responsibility or not.

I don't know the laws in your country, but I do know that you are going to have to fight dirty to deal with this one. I'm not talking about anything violent. I'm saying you are going to most likely have to get some legal advice from an attorney.

First you have to be sure not to let her know you are getting that advice. Do not tell her ANYTHING about it. Never mention that you are seeing a lawyer. Do not let her think for even a second that you might be trying to get any kind of custody, not even joint custody. You are probably going to have to do this the sneaky way. If you don't, the problem could get much worse really fast..

If you give her any kind of clue that you are even thinking about fighting for your right to see your child, she is going to have a lawyer before that day is over. By the next business day, she will have a restraining order (or your country's equivalent) served to you, and she will file the custody suit (for full custody) within 24hrs of that. Also, if/when you meet with an attorney, make sure you tell him about her craziness. That could be a huge help in the courtroom.

Now, I may be wrong, and I'm not saying all these things are absolute. I'm just giving you the basics of a possible "worst-case scenario." I was raised to prepare for the worst and hope for the best. And I do hope for the best for you.

I just don't think it would be right of me to read your post and not do something to help you prepare for what your problem could turn into.

Best wishes,
JAX

[musical-poet]

today's the first day ever that she's let me look after him instead of nondirect links, ie her best friend or her mom.

It's been a good day thus far, he's having a nap. Going to play him a private gig when if awakes, it's been a while.

I've managed to get her to agree to drawing up a life plan levi.
I've been to a lawyer and he gave the basic route and told me the order the courts would handle the situation in.
Also spoke to a friend who had a similar problem from her son's arrangements and got some good insight and tips.

Doing the draft plan for the next 2hours, provided my fingers don't fall asleep.

You guys have really made it easier to deal with the problems. Thankyou.

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[doublelibra]

What an adorable baby!!! I'm happy for you.

[edlee]

He's a doll,,,, how old is he.

I've got a seven week old grandson that I can do everything but the diaper change for. Probably that, too, but gramma never gives me the chance.

It is kind of tricky at times, but definitely doable.

Sounds like you are getting your ducks in a row,,,, but,,, she's not living with you, is she? It would , obviously, be nice to see your boy all the time,,, but not if you have to live with someone you'ld rather not.

Best of luck.
ed

[twisted_ophelia]

Awwww what a cute little guy!!

[musical-poet]

ok i've got the life plan signed and sorted. Now for the next step. Slowly backing away without hurting her to the point where the problems of hers get transfered to levi.
It's all going to plan.

I'm just really glad we have a good life plan for levi.
One of the best clauses in his plan is that his mom and i must not allow any of our fights to mean time away from either parent.

[musical-poet]

we're a week on and my plans are going to plan.
Tomorrow i'm looking after him again. Yay.

I'm typing out an explaination of why i did all the things i did and choices i made.
Stating how much the love is there and why it is no longer of the romantic sort and i shall be posting this on my facebook and i'll be giving a more detailed version to her so hopefully she understands where she went wrong as well as the important bits of where I went wrong and then she will find a better person to be with.

And on a callous note, i will then be able to persue my current interest with an open soul.

[gordonr]

Hi Poet,

I want to be sure that I have the story line right. Please confirm or correct:

1. You got your soon-to-be-ex pregnant.
2. You injured yourself. (how? how badly?)
3. You met someone new (congrats)
4. You found out you are a father (double congrats)
5. You are a year and a half into your rcovery and you are already able to care for baby (hats off)

Is this the way the story goes ?

Best Regards,

Gordon

P.S. I have just emerged from ten years plus intensive early childcare. Four kids. The youngest is now at school (grade two) and the eldest is in highschool (majoring in boys). I didn't send my kids to fulltime daycare or pre-school because I thought that, being available, I owed it to myself and them to be with them more. I always found sports and activity groups to provide peer interaction, and I did a lot of babysitting for the neighbors because that provided natural playmates for my own. These were very challenging, but a the same time the most enjoyable and enriching years of my life.

[musical-poet]

well it's yes, and rather large yeses to all but the number 3.
I've met a saxophonist who is my current idea of devine. She plays very well to my off beat style which adds to the attraction. As does her sms of yesterday.
I don't mind being alone for awhile because after the last 3years of relationship mayhem i'm rather apprehensive of getting seriously involved.

Tomorrow i tell the world where my head's at. And if i'm lucky i'll be able to get a little closer to the saxephone. ;-)

[musical-poet]

it's becoming a big comedy now, provided you look at from an outside perspective.

I told her today that we were over. Admittedly not the best way. She kept asking on a chat program if we were still happily married. After the 6th time i asked her if she wanted what was on my mind public or private and she opted for private. I then proceeded to tell her we were no longer engaged and i love her in the position of being my sons mother.

I was very certain with asking over the last little while to be sure that we stay friends if not together. She answered no every time and in counter point said she would commit suicide if we split and asked me if i would care for our son if she died.

I answered with full confidence that i would make sure i gave him all he would need.

She hasn't to my knowledge left life yet and hopefully she'll be smart enough to not kill herself. She has however started doing the things that motivated me to make it overly public.

I have people calling me and saying i should take more time and put more effort in. I tell them all the reason. I was only going along with the relationship, how ever heavy it got, for the sole reason of access to my son.

My folks and therapists and and and and don't seem to understand or believe what i say.

Either way i've now vented on that front to you all next part of the "joke" the punch line.

The mother of my son says it will be awhile before i see him again. I have the papers signed and will get nasty in about 2 months time, his first birthday. But for now i'll just let the dust settle and take a seat while she comes to grips with the situation.

More updates when the story continues.

[gordonr]

Poet,

You are a charming guy, and it looks like you are going to need all of it. Women, when it comes to reproductive issues. definitely are holding the big end of the stick. She could make it very difficult for you. Of course one day the boy will be of age, and assuming you have provided some support he will have an ideal image of you which can be transformed into a relationship. But that would be a long time to wait.

I suggest you approach the mother with feminin logic. Tell her you appreciate her, that you admire her, and that you like her very much, but that you believe she deserves more than that. Tell her that for reasons that are a complete mystery even to you, you can not offer her the unconditional passionate transcendant love that she deserves. On the other hand, you are fully committed to her as your partner in raising your son. Be nice to her. Be best friends.

(note key words: she DESERVES x, y and z. you, poor chump are incapable of OFFERRING her what she DESERVES, not because she is not loveable, but because of some bizarre flaw in you or in FATE... it would be TOO EASY for you to TAKE ADVANTAGE of her FEELINGS. You simply DON`T FEEL RIGHT about being UNFAIR to HER.. she DESERVES BETTER.. etc)

This will not be easy. Do not push her away, but do not give her any grounds for one day saying you led her on. Do not under any circumstances forget what you are doing and accidentally wake up beside her. If you do, the whole thing will start over again.

I am approaching this in a humerous vein, but the advice is genuine. It will ultimately be in her interest to cooperate, because your help in raising the boy should be very valuable to her. So if you flatter her enough, she will eventually forgive your emotional incompetence, and even feel extra affection for your sorry self. After all, you just weren`t good enough. It`s not your fault.

Best of luck,

Gordon

P.S. I forgot to say that it is a very good idea to ask her explicitly to forgive you. Cry if you have to. It is all your fault. etc. Once she forgives you, you can move on. But she will be a permanent fixture in your life for many years. You don`t have to love her, but you do have to interact with her on a very primal level. In the end, if you are lucky, she will find someone else and take a little distance from you in order to spare that person the pangs of jealousy. She will feel bad about hurting you that way, but she will feel she has to do it. You will then score brownie points for telling her that, hurt as you are, you understand.

I do hope this all works out.

Edited by gordonr, 13 May 2009 - 03:35 AM.

[HiltonP]

Gotta say the one I feel for is the little guy in the photo above, cause he’s got a real pair for a set of parents! He’s in nappies and you’re already playing ping pong with him. What a start to life. You have a “life plan”? That’s just words on paper. The real plan should involve taking responsibility for your actions, providing a secure income stream, creating a loving and nurturing environment . . . not playing mind games with his mother.

Whilst I feel for your new found position as a disabled person I think you need to step (wheel) back for a second, and view your present position WITHOUT the disability bit. Unmarried young boy knocks up young girl. Boy dumps girl and picks up another girl. Boy wants role in child’s life, but cannot provide a home or pay expenses but is starting a second relationship with another young girl (hope you keep your pecker well covered this time).

If you indeed want to be a responsible parent the first thing you need to accept and agree to is that your life is now secondary. Your first consideration in terms of time, energy, emotion and finances should be your son. That’s the price you pay for bringing a child into this world.

If all this sounds harsh and brutal it’s because I have had the misfortune of seeing the after effects of parents putting their own well being ahead of that of their kids.

[gordonr]

HiltonP, on May 13 2009, 12:30 PM, said:

Gotta say the one I feel for is the little guy in the photo above, cause he’s got a real pair for a set of parents! He’s in nappies and you’re already playing ping pong with him. What a start to life. You have a “life plan”? That’s just words on paper. The real plan should involve taking responsibility for your actions, providing a secure income stream, creating a loving and nurturing environment . . . not playing mind games with his mother.

Whilst I feel for your new found position as a disabled person I think you need to step (wheel) back for a second, and view your present position WITHOUT the disability bit. Unmarried young boy knocks up young girl. Boy dumps girl and picks up another girl. Boy wants role in child’s life, but cannot provide a home or pay expenses but is starting a second relationship with another young girl (hope you keep your pecker well covered this time).

If you indeed want to be a responsible parent the first thing you need to accept and agree to is that your life is now secondary. Your first consideration in terms of time, energy, emotion and finances should be your son. That’s the price you pay for bringing a child into this world.

If all this sounds harsh and brutal it’s because I have had the misfortune of seeing the after effects of parents putting their own well being ahead of that of their kids.

Dear Hilton,

I fully understand where these feelings are coming from, however, I would say that in the Poet's case they are misplaced.

The first thing a parent must do is interact with their child. This is a given with no regard to financial circumstances or physical ability. Just because someone is broke does not mean he or she is a bad person. Similarly, just because someone is paralysed does not make them a bad person. So if we give Musical-Poet the benefit of the doubt (he is not a bad person), then let us just ask the fundamental question: Is his boy better with a penniless father (and we don't know about this but will stipulate for the sake of discussion) or no father at all? Likewise, is the boy better off with a wheelchir dad or no dad at all?

I would say most people will agree that a child is better with a penniless wheelchair dad than no dad at all.

Next let us admit that many men (because we are dealing with real life here, and not ideals of what people "should" be) in the Poet's case would simply shrug and say "Money? Forget it !... I am disabled on the dole" and perhaps say also "Diapers? Forget that too! I do not even do my OWN diapers..."

And yet here we have Musical-Poet who is strongly motivated to play the father role, and the depth and quality of his involvement will likely imporve as he experiences the parental life. He will likely find a way to provide increasing support as that becomes increasingly important to him.

As for mind games, we are people. That is what people do. They interact, negotiate, compromise. The Poet is not trying to cheat or abuse his ex. On the contrary, he is trying to spell out on what terms her child can have a father.

Therefore, I think support and congratulations are in order, and that is my intent. If things go south later, that will be unfortunate. But there is no point in forejudging that conclusion.

Best Regards,

Gordon

[HiltonP]

I don't recall mentioning the word "bad" at all.

I do recall using the word "responsible", which usually involves puting the needs of others ahead of oneself.

I'm saying the mind games, the lawyers, the life plan paperwork, the hostility, the to-ing and fro-ing, the new
relationship when the old one's not sorted, etc is a dangerous road to go down . . . not for the poet, or his "ex",
but for the little guy.

The poet asked for comments, these are mine . . . sadly from personal experience.
No offence intended.

Edited by HiltonP, 13 May 2009 - 05:15 PM.

[bobm]

This is very difficult, Poet, because we are talking about three, [plus?], lives with lord knows what legal complexities, and we readers don't know, directly, what the other parties are thinking.

The legal context in SA is surely unknown to most of this readership, but on the assumption that it is anything like what I understand it to be in the UK and in North America the life plan you mention will be similar to the parenting plan discussed in this document;

http://www.cafcass.g...=...&version=-1

The point to note is that if Mother doesn't agree with your plans, and you can't come to a mutual agreement, you are likely to end up in court......which may not do any harm but is unlikely to do any good.

So if you can possibly meet Mother [half-way, wherever] you may save yourself and others a lot of grief.

[musical-poet]

i've not been clear enough it would seem.

I am very interested in the new girl. I am however making no moves. I am being sure to do all that is needed for my son. I like her and interpret alot of what she says in that stereotypical grass is greener on the otherside way but i'm mature enough to do nothing further untill levi is secure.

Next point.
Part of my reasoning behind leaving the mother is the fact of her unwilling attitude towards my career. I was still studying when we met. I was final year of cheffing studies. Now she wants me to in do a call centre job. As good as that work can be i am still very decided on being a chef. I've been having talks with some of my favourite head chefs on working for them now.
All my previouse employers are happy to have me back.
I give everyone some play time vibes and am organised enough to never run out of stock in the middle of service.

The mother wants me to do anything but cheffing. I know to be sure to make the hours a big part of any new contract to be sure that i'll have time with my son. The chair does help sway the odds abit in my favoure. Plus i am looking more at bakeries. Every one i've worked in i've enjoyed and i prefer the goods.
Making dessert is great but breads and eclairs just thrill me more.

I already at this point bake bread on order and have supplied the eats for a couple of birthdays.

So i am doing my best for my son, i don't give a stuff about my state beyond it's relevance to ensuring his state.

[musical-poet]

this is how i plan to keep my son supplied. I am just sorting a standing and then i'll be back in the professional kitchens.

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[musical-poet]

i'm having levi over today for the first time since the split.

His mother didn't take it happily but that was expected today i'll see how she is and try be there for her.
I don't think she'll let me play the friend role. Already some of our 'common' friends are refusing to remain my friends. No worries, i expected those people to cut ties.

I'm just getting her things together then ready for the trip there and then 4 hours of levi time.
Yay!