26 replies to this topic

[greybeard]

The Most Important Image Ever Taken


Enjoy.

[greybeard]

.........and in case you missed it in the Word Association Game, have a listen to the late, great Carl Sagan as he talks about a pale blue dot we call Earth.

[Scott_C4-5]

In the matter of actual size, we are so small that if for some unknown reason our planet completely disappeared it would not affect anything outside our solar system. But the average person does not view the world they live in, in this way. I love science and astronomy and love the pictures we have received through various telescopes, but beyond that most manned space missions are fairly useless unless they are performing experiments dealing with medicine and the like. We went to the moon which cost an enormous amount of money and aside from beating the Soviet Union in getting their first all we really discovered was that the moon is slowly moving away from our planet and that most likely the moon was created when another planet crashed into Earth several billion years ago. I love the thought of mankind living on the moon or even Mars, but I think it is an enormous waste of money to be spent until we have created a better Earth. The scientists, physicists and mathematicians who explore how the universe was created could serve us much better if they and our governments focused on dealing with the problems we have today. Personally, I would love to travel into space and do the things astronauts do, but wanting to do something and needing to do something are completely different things. We are very important to one another, otherwise we would not cry when we lose a loved one or feel joy at the birth of a new child. The fact that Earth looks so much smaller the further away we view it from; it should make us feel more important. We may feel that people on the other side of our planet are not as important as our neighbor, and to some degree that may be true, perhaps we should start try to connect with the people on this planet more before we venture out to other ones. When there is no more poverty, famine or war then we have deserved the right to spend the time and money we do today on such things as how the universe began or how it will end.

I don't wish to sound pessimistic or angry, but how does discovering exactly when the Big Bang occurred help put food on plates of the hungry or medicine into the sick. I consider myself a realist and an optimist, but we cannot keep living the way we do now and expect a better world tomorrow.

Sorry if I turned this post into something deeper than it was intended, but I felt the need to ramble... :-)

[StillFingers]

Excellent GB pretty vague also...and as Scott has done, I'll throw my neck out onto the Apparelyzed chopping block to see if my head gets lopped off.



Scott, without exploring, would we even be here or would the earth still be flat

I'm not attempting to trivialize your wonderful thoughts; your points regarding concentrating on care of home are well taken and certainly applauded loudly . Living with peaceful loving hearts, helping/supporting our fellow human beings; in our own backyards/communities is the place to start, kind of like what we do here on Apparelyzed.

However, without examining, looking around, challenging the unknown, how can we even hope to advance our knowledge/understanding; some balance between down here and out there is perhaps the answer. I don't know exactly what kind of medical and/or scientific knowledge we have gained from the experiments we've accomplished and are continuing to do in space, but I'll hazard a guess they are, will be, quite significant. And, abandoning exploration of space is not an option for me; our looking beyond our earth gives me hope that there is something greater than our petty squabbles.

Concentrate on the world's ills...create perfect harmony...it won't happen; not in our lives, not while greed/power are the driving force in our world. Can any of us actually see those in power giving up their position/control. I hope they do, but I feel it very unlikely. If this did happen tho, imagine the current military and security budgets shifted to the greater good, while not abandoning our space exploration.

Hmmmmm, there's that word, IMAGINE, as mentioned before on this site, a long haired Englishman put it best in song. John Lennon gave us a glimpse of what could be, if we choose to CHANGE. But, how many of us have listened, how many of us care enough to strip away our prejudices, how many of us have simply dismissed his gift to us as wishful thinking?



At times insignificant yet magnificent. I am but a spec in the greater scheme and yet I can also be love.

Jerry

I need a drink, this is getting way to deep, anyone want to share a spot of tea?

Edited by StillFingers, 25 May 2009 - 10:27 PM.

[fatdave]

GB,Scott, Jerry Thank you for the very thought provoking post.

I have nothing to add to this conversation other than my Dearest Thanks.

Dave.

[Kev-O]

I cant see the video whats the name of it so i can youtube it an check it out.

[StillFingers]

Kev-O, on May 24 2009, 08:01 PM, said:

I cant see the video whats the name of it so i can youtube it an check it out.

The Hubble Deep Field: The Most Important Image Ever Taken


Carl Sagan - Pale Blue Dot


Imagine - John Lennon



Hope those help kev.

Jerry

[Kev-O]

Thanks alot stillfingers. This stuff is simply amazing an mind blowing. Nothing better in this world then to sit outside on a clear night an look up an take in everything

[StillFingers]

Kev,

When I was a kid the top of a willow tree in our backyard was my perch on many a clear night. As an adult...okay, stop snickering...I still turn my eyes/thoughts to the night's sky, wondering who else might be looking at me asking the same questions I ponder. Thinking how small I must be given the uncountable stars scattered across the tinny bit of sky within my view, let alone the universe.

The unknown has always fascinated me. Wither the darkest depths of our oceans and the creatures that inhabit those strange places; the vastness of space and its amazing planets. stars and formations; the artifacts and creatures of past civilizations buried within the layers of our earth or the deep recesses of heart/soul, exploring, examining, understanding the complexities of life are a constant hunger and a continuing source of wonder for me.

As I continue my journey, keeping that wonder is my deepest hope.

Be well bro,

Jerry

[greybeard]

I agree with and applaud all the sentiment expressed by you guys, but it ain't going to happen for the reasons StillFingers gave - Power and Greed.

I would like to see all the world leaders and business moguls being forced to watch these three videos every day of their lives in order to keep in the forefront of their minds just how insignificant they and their grand power-grabbing, and money-making, plans are in the great scheme of things.

But perhaps all of us, not just those who decide policy, need to be reminded from time to time that we are no more than unimportant specks of matter that originated from the stars, and that one day these specks will be recycled to fuel the birth of a new star. I find that kind of comforting.

[E-DOG]

Scott_C4-5, on May 24 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

I don't wish to sound pessimistic or angry, but how does discovering exactly when the Big Bang occurred help put food on plates of the hungry or medicine into the sick. I consider myself a realist and an optimist, but we cannot keep living the way we do now and expect a better world tomorrow.

Sorry if I turned this post into something deeper than it was intended, but I felt the need to ramble... :-)

If nothing else, discovering the when and how of the "Big Bang" will hopefully discredit the Bible to such an extent that we can permanently remove Judeo Christian religious dogma from our schools and government and from those who make the laws I must abide by.

As far as expecting a better world tomorrow.

Most people have nothing to gain from a better tomorrow. They'll get up in arms and righteously indignant when someone throws trash on the ground. They'll put on a long face and act concerned when National Geographic writes about some inconsequential bug becoming extinct. But the second Spielberg releases another block buster on DVD their attention will immediately refocus on where to rent it.

Feed the hungry? Ya mean the people all the way over there? I don't know those people, why should I worry about them? Could you pass me that plate of cookies please?

So our planet's choking to death on the emissions from our automobiles, becoming inundated with recyclable trash. Who cares? The damage we cause now ain't gonna effect me, my children, or my children's children (as far as I can tell) so who gives a shit?

The consequences caused our myopic view of the future are too abstract to understand well enough to prevent. The self centered attitude all of us are born with is too difficult a hurdle for most of us to overcome in order to make the sacrifices necessary for a better tomorrow.

Maybe I sound a bit cynical but hey! Take a close look.

Some old man in a wheelchair gets attacked by teenaged hoodlums. Whoa dude, bummer, maybe they should.......
Thousands slowly starve to death daily, all around the world. Man, if I could just get one more slice of pie I could........
Horrible injustice surrounds us all the time. Hey, I'm kinda busy right now, let's talk about this later. Or tomorrow. O tues.........

And those who do care? Really care?
Few and far between.

And I'm not making any judgments here, just observations.
And if I'm wrong, tell me! I'd love to be wrong. About this anyway.

We really are nothing more than a tiny bit of flotsam on a dark sea in a vast universe. But hey, we're all we've got.

E

Edited by E-DOG, 26 May 2009 - 01:34 AM.

[edlee]

Wisdom I will never have,,,,, a sense of wonder, i hope to never lose,,,,,,


I'd like to hold on to a sense of humor, too,,,, looking around, at the things people ( myself included) do and say,,,,I'll need it.
ed

[greybeard]

E-DOG, on May 26 2009, 02:27 AM, said:

Scott_C4-5, on May 24 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

I don't wish to sound pessimistic or angry, but how does discovering exactly when the Big Bang occurred help put food on plates of the hungry or medicine into the sick. I consider myself a realist and an optimist, but we cannot keep living the way we do now and expect a better world tomorrow.

Sorry if I turned this post into something deeper than it was intended, but I felt the need to ramble... :-)

If nothing else, discovering the when and how of the "Big Bang" will hopefully discredit the Bible to such an extent that we can permanently remove Judeo Christian religious dogma from our schools and government and from those who make the laws I must abide by.

As far as expecting a better world tomorrow.

Most people have nothing to gain from a better tomorrow. They'll get up in arms and righteously indignant when someone throws trash on the ground. They'll put on a long face and act concerned when National Geographic writes about some inconsequential bug becoming extinct. But the second Spielberg releases another block buster on DVD their attention will immediately refocus on where to rent it.

Feed the hungry? Ya mean the people all the way over there? I don't know those people, why should I worry about them? Could you pass me that plate of cookies please?

So our planet's choking to death on the emissions from our automobiles, becoming inundated with recyclable trash. Who cares? The damage we cause now ain't gonna effect me, my children, or my children's children (as far as I can tell) so who gives a shit?

The consequences caused our myopic view of the future are too abstract to understand well enough to prevent. The self centered attitude all of us are born with is too difficult a hurdle for most of us to overcome in order to make the sacrifices necessary for a better tomorrow.

Maybe I sound a bit cynical but hey! Take a close look.

Some old man in a wheelchair gets attacked by teenaged hoodlums. Whoa dude, bummer, maybe they should.......
Thousands slowly starve to death daily, all around the world. Man, if I could just get one more slice of pie I could........
Horrible injustice surrounds us all the time. Hey, I'm kinda busy right now, let's talk about this later. Or tomorrow. O tues.........

And those who do care? Really care?
Few and far between.

And I'm not making any judgments here, just observations.
And if I'm wrong, tell me! I'd love to be wrong. About this anyway.

We really are nothing more than a tiny bit of flotsam on a dark sea in a vast universe. But hey, we're all we've got.

E

I don't think you're wrong E. You hit the nail on the head when you wrote "The self centered attitude all of us are born with is too difficult a hurdle for most of us to overcome" (We'll overlook the incorrect spelling of "centred" as you're a pal )

The human organism's instinct for self preservation is primal. It's even stronger than the urge to procreate, and any fella will attest to how strong that is. The over-riding instinct will always be to put self before others. It's in the genes and is not likely to be bred out any time soon.

Despite that, I am fairly optimistic for mankind's future. I suspect that when the situation becomes dire enough, and humans realise that the very existence of the human species is imminently threatened, this instinct for personal survival will kick in and they will finally accept that the instinct will only be best served by working together. It won't be pretty to watch us get to that point though and I'm glad I will be history by then, but that realisation is starting to tickle the grey matter of a few already. It is just a matter of time.

Let's just hope that some gungho leader of some rogue state doesn't decide to open Pandora's Box before the message dawns on the majority.

[fatdave]

Maybe it will take some rouge state unleashing "pandora's box" to set humanity on the right track.

Don't mind me, I've been drinking.

Dave.

[greybeard]

fatdave, on May 26 2009, 11:34 PM, said:

Maybe it will take some rouge state unleashing "pandora's box" to set humanity on the right track.

Don't mind me, I've been drinking.

Dave.

I can't even use the excuse of drink to explain why I'm churning out all this guff. Rush of blood to the head I expect.

You could be right, Dave. I don't think the process will be very pretty.

Like E, I really hope I'm wrong about all that but I was born a natural Cynic - with a capitol C. Most of what I've seen, heard, or read about human behaviour has done little to tempt me to be anything else.

But I still think it will all come right in the end. If I'm wrong? Well - it won't be the first time!

[Scott_C4-5]

message deleted

Edited by Scott_C4-5, 27 May 2009 - 06:19 PM.

[StillFingers]

Scott, prior to your above last post did anyone call anyone else an asshole, I did not see it. Unless I missed something, the dawg was just expanding on my original post regarding the reality in which we currently find ourselves.

Greed/power are the driving factors at most levels of people in our world...even you and I to some degree are of this nature, in our previous and everyday choices; maybe I'm wrong on this point; I have no doubt that I fall into this category, the dawg's observations are crystal clear and not off mark in my humble opinion.

The possibility for change may indeed be impossible given our still primal nature...my cynical side. Then again we might wake up and share our individual gains...my optimistic side; I still have hope...

In the grander scheme of things, perhaps we can acknowledge our dissagreements without cutting each other in half...given we are here for/to support.

Best wishes,

Jerry

edlee, on May 26 2009, 01:16 PM, said:

Wisdom I will never have,,,,, a sense of wonder, i hope to never lose,,,,,,


I'd like to hold on to a sense of humor, too,,,, looking around, at the things people ( myself included) do and say,,,,I'll need it.
ed

Yes, HUMOR, so important to living a happier life...bravo Ed

BTW, What do you call an ex surfer quadriplegic, born in the USA, with a part German heritage that lives in sunny Southern California...Jerry.

Have a good one

List of terms used for Germans
http://en.wikipedia....sed_for_Germans

Edited by StillFingers, 27 May 2009 - 01:45 AM.

[E-DOG]

Scott_C4-5, on May 26 2009, 05:02 PM, said:

I would consider myself a Christian in that I believe in following the words of Jesus, not the corruption of those words by particular Christian sects and churches.

Now let me address E-Dog's reply to my post...

I used to read your replies to people's posts and thought they were merely the words of a smartass, which I must confess I am quite a bit, but after reading what you wrote I think I should remove the smart portion. You don't care about the pollution from coal powered energy plants and automobiles, but you come off as the kind of person who would shoot someone if they threw a paper cup onto your lawn. You don't care about the hungry, whether they are halfway across the world or down the street, but I'm sure if your children or grandchildren were starving you would not hesitate to do whatever was needed in order for them to eat.

Your comments sound like the same kind of shit I would expect to hear from those hoodlums that you mentioned. but at least my view doesn't make me sound like an ignorant uncaring asshole.

I'm not sure if what I just wrote has the potential to get my account banned,

Scotty!
Looks like I may have hit a nerve there buddy boy. OOPS! My bad. Call me irresponsible, again, for 4,70238th time. This year.

If you choose to follow the word of jesus there young scotty, be my guest! Enjoy yourself. But don't make me follow the word of jesus. I think there's a possibility he might be fibbing when he says he's the son of god. And if he's B-S-ing me about that, he could be B-S-ing me about other stuff as well. Can you dig it?

I knew that you could.

I don't care about pollution? Scott, wake up and put your nose over the coffee cup. NO ONE cares about the damage caused by the pollution we create. At least not enough to DO anything about it. And there aren't enough of those who do care enough to make a difference. The damage we create now WILL NOT effect us so why SHOULD we care? But you're right. Someone throws so much as a cigarette butt on my lawn and Ajax, my 250 pound attack trained pitbull with a crack habit WILL be let off the chain.

Do you understand why scotty?

The damage caused by the cigarette butt WILL effect us. Or at least it will effect me.
Because the effects are immediate kiddo. The butt makes my lawn look like shit. I don't like it when my lawn looks like shit. Right or wrong, good or bad. So I do something about it. Simple enough.

Like almost EVERYONE else in the world, you're right, I don't really care about those who are starving all the way over there in Ethiopia or where ever it is they are starving at. Almost NO ONE does. I mean, shit, there big guy, when was the last time you did more than put a few table scraps in an envelope, seal it, stamp it, and send it to a third world country hoping it got into the right hands?

But you're right.

If I thought my kids were hungry enough, I'd shoplift a few candy bars from the nearest 7-11. Could you blame me?
The effects from the lack of food for my kids is immediate. I'll have to sit there and watch them stave to death. I don't need that scotty.
The friggin' paperwork would be colossal to say the least. So I do something about it. Simple enough.

As far as my sounding like a hoodlum goes, well scotty, I AM a hoodlum. Hope you don't have too big a problem with that.
And the "ignorant, uncaring asshole" comment? I am NOT ignorant and I am NOT uncaring. So I guess you can welcome me to the club.

Hope this helps a bit,

E-dog / now is someone gonna pass them dang cookies or not?

[greybeard]

Scott_C4-5, on May 27 2009, 01:02 AM, said:

I believe in following the words of Jesus,

Sounds to me Scott, that you've been following a little too closely. You shouldn't let your religious prejudices cloud your views.

You just read the words and ignored the meaning. You failed to recognise the cynicism that E-dog used to demonstrate the failings of his fellow man, that unfortunately were all too accurate, and because of that you totally misunderstood his message.

........So then of course, you did the charitable, Christian thing - and attacked him.

Bravo.

Edited by greybeard, 27 May 2009 - 07:37 AM.

[dom]

yes that was just 'dang' crazy [using e dogs writing style] i always read posts three times before i disagree with a poster he was obviously being cynical [which i am about a million things] i am just so pessimistic about this human race of ours,mind you i was when i was sixteen!

[Scott_C4-5]

I said I was a Christian, not a good Christian. I haven't been to church on a regular basis since I was 7-8 years old.

I came to this site a couple of years ago and when I read a post that I thought I could contribute to, I did so in a helpful manner. I don't remember ever reading a post/reply from E-Dog that wasn't just a chance to make a smartass remark. Maybe I'm wrong and only read a few particular posts, if so, my apologies.

Anyhow, I'm still going to try and help anyone who posts a question I might have an answer to, but this is my last post regarding anything that is going to spark debate.

[fatdave]

I have to say as smartassed as edogs post are, they have a great air of truth within them. Many times he has posted things that have made me think and laugh.

I once had a very wise person tell me "You have to be smart to be a smart ass"

Its all in how you take that persons post, even if one was to post in a negative, mean spirited manner.

Dave

[E-DOG]

Scott_C4-5, on May 27 2009, 11:53 AM, said:

I don't remember ever reading a post/reply from E-Dog that wasn't just a chance to make a smartass remark. Maybe I'm wrong and only read a few particular posts, if so, my apologies.

Anyhow, I'm still going to try and help anyone who posts a question I might have an answer to, but this is my last post regarding anything that is going to spark debate.

Scott.
There's a reason most of my replies are of a "smartass" nature. You will notice I don't often reply to a post if it's about a serious health care problem. I don't know enough about such things, so I keep my mouth shut.

When the post is about something that some people take seriously and others don't, ie. religion, stem cells, or spitting lugies high in the air and then catching them in your mouth when they come back down hoping it will make you walk again, I gotta say something. Sorry pal. It's just my nature.

Said it before, and I'll say it again. You wanna believe in god? Stem cells? Or catching spit before it lands on the top of your head, GO FOR IT! Enjoy yerself. It's your right. And I'll stand beside you to help you defend that right. But when we're done fighting off those who want to remove those rights I'm gonna make fun of them.

It's therapeutic for me, and it amuses others. Some of my replies are just plain silly. To the point of making me look like some kinda clown on LSD. With others I'm just being incredibly opinionated, loud mouthed, boorish and as the Brits might say, "ugh, way too American." And I agree with 'em! Funny lil' tea drinkin' folks that they are, ya gotta love 'em!

Don't take this shit so seriously scotty wotty doodle all da day, I don't mean ya no harm. In fact I'm on your side, there boo boo.
You see, my legs don't work any better than yours do.

E

[Scribbler]

Greybeard, you spelt impotent wrong!

[CR_L1]

Scribbler, on Jun 19 2009, 05:53 PM, said:

Greybeard, you spelt impotent wrong!

Very good my man, very good

[Yasko]

greybeard, on May 27 2009, 12:35 AM, said:

Scott_C4-5, on May 27 2009, 01:02 AM, said:

I believe in following the words of Jesus,

Sounds to me Scott, that you've been following a little too closely. You shouldn't let your religious prejudices cloud your views.

You just read the words and ignored the meaning. You failed to recognise the cynicism that E-dog used to demonstrate the failings of his fellow man, that unfortunately were all too accurate, and because of that you totally misunderstood his message.

........So then of course, you did the charitable, Christian thing - and attacked him.

Bravo.

Here is to you Greybeard
At least somebody gets it!

[greybeard]

Scribbler, on Jun 19 2009, 05:53 PM, said:

Greybeard, you spelt impotent wrong!