4 replies to this topic

[McCann]

As most may or may not already know some of these things should prove to be helpful in many ways. Whatever you may do, a few things are important/crucial to progression, to say the very least, for whatever potential positive outcome. A disciplined, structred/routined, healthy habit of nutrition and workout is very important in helping the body heal, maintain or progress (many of you probably know this already whether SCI or not).
My view of therapy was as a form or time where I took what the therapist said or saw, to assess my current status. I would do so by asking questions, once I felt or made myself comfortable with the therapist. When that level of comfort and rapport was built, it allowed me to further my advancement for information and to better advocate for myself.
I also used therapy to figure out what is necessary to do in my non-therapy time so I could press forward. Especially knowing that my therapy schedule by no means came close to or had comparison with that of the amount of repititions performed by a fully non-injured person. Therapy maybe covered 5 to 10% of what they would do on a daily level of simple mundane duties/activities.
I used my "down-time" outside of therapy to research various muscles in the anatomy. Sure there were other things I could have spent my time on or doing but this was my priority, other "events" followed. This was necessary to me to correct or overcome the challenge I faced.
My therapists and other research showed that it was important to develop and enhance gross motor skills/movements first. Now, to get that ability was proving to be very difficult/unfruitful when first attempted due to atrophy, edema, and inactive muscle fibers to generalize the concept/idea. How is this accomplished without the ability to even contract muscles?
I understand that time is important in helping heal the body, but so to was trying to treat the cause, not the symptom. I along with many of us believe in cause and effect, and with my oldest sister, father, mother, and fiance's aid the information quest began (my father and mother playing the largest roles because they both worked in the healthcare field doing either private nursing or working at a nursing home). Thus familiarity with things such as bed sores and so forth was known of and avoided. They gave greatly of themselves in many ways to assist.
Many of the methods of treatments we may or may not use tend to address or deal with the symptoms, but what is the possible cause? Well we know that hypothermia in many ways acts as a neuroprotectant. Yes, true indeed, each individual has their own individual recovery schedule (based on if the habits developed are positive or negative/deter) but could there be a pattern of recovery? We know that edema and disuse atrophy are two problems that have similarities that quite possibly relate to axons. And if hypothermia is used to help prevent or control inflammation, there seems to be a relation between axonal injury and inflammation.
Axons that are undamaged have myelin that protects the electrical signal and keeps the pathway clear through its sheath or canal. A clear pathway allows for signal to travel from the Central Nervous System to the body's various extremities. So when demyelination occurs, the sheath gets damaged because it becomes permeable to fluids causing disruption to the clarity of the signal's traveling pathway. And if that is so, could the possibility of paralysis be related to the amount/degree of permeation?
Once again sorry to end here but sleep awaits me. Hopefully this writing isn't too long and it is read to logically make sense. After all, every subject studied by/or in school follows philosophy of some sort; mostly/hopefully logic.

[edlee]

Your posts seem to emphasize "disuse atrophy" in all your posts, as a cause. I'm afraid that I have to disagree. I see it as a result, and something that can be overcome in many ways,,, if,, and only if, signals thru the cord can be achieved. Not the other way around.

As for staying healthy and exercising as much as one is able, I couldn't agree more.

Edema,, swelling,, is well known as a problem in acute injuries, and if applied early enough, icing may help prevent some of the demyelination of the axons that occurrs due to this condition. The use of corticosteroids at this stage,, first 8 hours,, is an even better solution. Clinical tests have proven the latter,,, no clinical tests have ever been done to prove the former.

In fact there have been tests done to ascertain the efficacy of using icing as a therapy for later stage SCI. These tests were limited in scope and never reached the level of clinical trials,,, largely because the tests showed no general improvement.

There are reasons why doctors don't expect much improvement after the first year shows none,,, and it isn't because of the lack of study, work, or positive thinking on the part of the patients. It's the law of averages. There will always be a few,,, like you,,, who are exceptions,,, and we all applaud them,,, and yes,, envy them.

As for the remyelination,,, there are clinical studies ongoing, using several different modalities. Some are even showing a bit of promise. Perhaps the "golden fleece" won't have anything to do with stem cells.

I appreciate your continuing dialogue.
ed

[McCann]

edlee, on Jun 25 2009, 08:59 PM, said:

Your posts seem to emphasize "disuse atrophy" in all your posts, as a cause. I'm afraid that I have to disagree. I see it as a result, and something that can be overcome in many ways,,, if,, and only if, signals thru the cord can be achieved. Not the other way around.

As for staying healthy and exercising as much as one is able, I couldn't agree more.

Edema,, swelling,, is well known as a problem in acute injuries, and if applied early enough, icing may help prevent some of the demyelination of the axons that occurrs due to this condition. The use of corticosteroids at this stage,, first 8 hours,, is an even better solution. Clinical tests have proven the latter,,, no clinical tests have ever been done to prove the former.

In fact there have been tests done to ascertain the efficacy of using icing as a therapy for later stage SCI. These tests were limited in scope and never reached the level of clinical trials,,, largely because the tests showed no general improvement.

There are reasons why doctors don't expect much improvement after the first year shows none,,, and it isn't because of the lack of study, work, or positive thinking on the part of the patients. It's the law of averages. There will always be a few,,, like you,,, who are exceptions,,, and we all applaud them,,, and yes,, envy them.

As for the remyelination,,, there are clinical studies ongoing, using several different modalities. Some are even showing a bit of promise. Perhaps the "golden fleece" won't have anything to do with stem cells.

I appreciate your continuing dialogue.
ed

Disuse atrophy isnt what i state as the cause. I stated,"We know that edema and disuse atrophy are two problems(symptoms to make it have better clarity) that have similarities that quite possibly relate to axons." Therefore if we see that relation, it also allows for other logical theories. None of which has to do with the law of 'averages.' To put it on a more general scale. When cut, most of us heal, unless one has some major deficiency that allows one to continue bleeding. Another way to view it is would someone put ice on a broken bone? The difference is that these bones are a bit different in that they work in conjunction with your CNS and neurologic factors. Demyelination is the "breakdown" of the signal traveling to the extremity, more importantly through damage of the sheath. The myelin acts as an insulator around axons. So those the cause would have to deal with axons. Don't worry, I'll be back, later. I will have time to further illustrate what I speak of with better clarity. Internet connection is in and out cause of weather.

Edited by McCann, 27 June 2009 - 02:45 AM.

[edlee]

I get a lot of that too, using a 3G connection is sometimes weather limited.

Submitting that the healing of bones and the healing of nerves is in any way similar seems odd of someone who has done a lot of research. Mine tells me that although nerve regroth is, in fact, possible,, it is extremely slow. Even in periferal nerves under perfect conditions, it is seldom faster than a millimeter a month. In the spinal cord it is even slower,, if residual scarring, clotting, srinxes (sp) allow it at all,, which all clinical studies, to date, deny.

Periferal nerve transplanting and/or regeneration has/have been attempted, but no actual clinical studies have proved either to be viable. The few anecdotal successes have been in acute cases (under one year) where recovery could as easily have been ascribed to natural healing as to any process used.

You mentioned your going to birthing classes,,, when's the due date? I just got my first grandchild in March. If this is your first, let me just say,, enjoy every minute of the process. I'm enjoying watching my daughter's reactions,, and remembering my own.
ed

[McCann]

edlee, on Jun 26 2009, 11:23 PM, said:

I get a lot of that too, using a 3G connection is sometimes weather limited.

Submitting that the healing of bones and the healing of nerves is in any way similar seems odd of someone who has done a lot of research. Mine tells me that although nerve regroth is, in fact, possible,, it is extremely slow. Even in periferal nerves under perfect conditions, it is seldom faster than a millimeter a month. In the spinal cord it is even slower,, if residual scarring, clotting, srinxes (sp) allow it at all,, which all clinical studies, to date, deny.

Periferal nerve transplanting and/or regeneration has/have been attempted, but no actual clinical studies have proved either to be viable. The few anecdotal successes have been in acute cases (under one year) where recovery could as easily have been ascribed to natural healing as to any process used.

You mentioned your going to birthing classes,,, when's the due date? I just got my first grandchild in March. If this is your first, let me just say,, enjoy every minute of the process. I'm enjoying watching my daughter's reactions,, and remembering my own.
ed

Okay you know things are bad when the strip with the mall including street traffic lights are out because we had a tornado watch and weather strong enough to have electricity out for that long. My first daughter is due to be born on Aug22nd (around the corner). And thanks for the advice to remember. I will enjoy and treasure it because time isnt guaranteed for anyone (as we know). As I am not at my house computer the furthering of my topic will not be able to continue for several hours. But what I intend to post next is along the subject of demyelination and the sheath and its repair and/or maintenance to carry signals properly to various extremities. To be continued.