32 replies to this topic

[purple_faeries]

hi there

I was wondering if all you knowedgeable folk would be able to help me, I am just learning how to do independant transfers (with a sliding board at the moment but hopefully not for long), but my physio is useless, all she said is just slide down the board to the bed/chair etc.

But when I try to slide nothing happens so I am completely stuck. Can you help me?

I am roughly a T6/8

Thank you in advance

Hannah

[Angela250153]

Sounds like a very incompetent physio. Can you ask for someone else?

Otherwise have you tried to lift yourself up with your hands and then use your arm to pull you in the direction you want to go and push with the other? Make sure that your feet are underneath you.

My injury is lower and I got some strength in my legs but I found the sliding board cumbersome and ditched it pretty quick to just to just swing myself from chair to bed or car.

If possible you might want to do some weights to increase the strength in you arms.

Edited by Angela250153, 13 July 2009 - 12:04 PM.

[edlee]

I answered a similar post, earlier. This one is not a lot diferent. First learn balance, then how to lift your butt with your arms, you will need that for weight shifts.

Once you can easily do weight shifts, the idea of moving in the direction you want to go, using the same technique will be more clear.

Every small thing you learn is built on something smaller you learned. One step at a time,,, but you are in charge of how quickly you take those steps.

I hope I've been of some help.
ed

[gordonr]

edlee, on Jul 13 2009, 06:48 PM, said:

I answered a similar post, earlier. This one is not a lot diferent. First learn balance, then how to lift your butt with your arms, you will need that for weight shifts.

Once you can easily do weight shifts, the idea of moving in the direction you want to go, using the same technique will be more clear.

Every small thing you learn is built on something smaller you learned. One step at a time,,, but you are in charge of how quickly you take those steps.

I hope I've been of some help.
ed

Folks,

I bet all of this has been extensively discussed in the past.

I know that a lot of paras sit up on the side of the bed with their feet on the floor and then transfer as though they were moving from chair to chair. And when they transfer the other way, they end up sitting on the bed again, with the requirement of lifting up their legs without falling over.

I have good balance, but I find this unnessecary. I sit on the bed with my feet straight out in front of me, transfer my ass, and then put my feet down on the footrests. The other way, I lift my feet onto the bed, and then shift my butt on to the bed.

I have always found this the easiest transfer. And I also use it to get into my van. I transfer onto the floor throught the side door, pull up my chair, slide up between the two seats, and transfer up onto the drivers seat. But getting in is just like bed: come up paralell, lift up my legs and then shift my butt.

I even do this now to get on the toilet. I have built a toilet seat which sticks out three feet in front, so my legs are straight, not bent. I have never seen anybody else do this, but here are the benefits:

1. you are not perched like a parrot on the front edge of the toilet seat.

2. There are no balance issues at all while you do your routine.

3. You don't have to do a flying pivot from chair to toilet.

4. The seat is wide and deep and square and very easy to get onto and off of using the feet first up and feet last down method described.

I would be intersested in high-para/active quad feedback on this. It took me twenty-five years to figure out the toilet seat. And it was a broken leg with a full length cast (majing it impossible for me to sit with my knees bent), that accidentally provided this solution. And I never had the slightest desire to go back to the regular toilet position.

Best Regards,

Gordon

[qbounce]

Something that helped me realize how to get to my destination was, that your body moves in the opposite direction that you throw your head. As I use my head to balance, that's given me perspective on how my butt slides toward the chair (from the bed), while my head leans away from the chair.

Go to You Tube and look up QUAD TRANSFERS for visual direction.

[gordonr]

qbounce, on Jul 13 2009, 08:37 PM, said:

Something that helped me realize how to get to my destination was, that your body moves in the opposite direction that you throw your head. As I use my head to balance, that's given me perspective on how my butt slides toward the chair (from the bed), while my head leans away from the chair.

Go to You Tube and look up QUAD TRANSFERS for visual direction.

Q,

I like that. Opposite and equal reaction. Quad transfer meets rocket propulsion theory!

What do you think of my toilet bench idea with your legs straight out in front of you? Mine is about two feet (60 cm) wide. You transfer on like a bed. You are perfectly stable, and you can't possibly fall off. I have a large bolster/pillow over my thighs to lean my body onto while doing the routine.

Best Regards,

Gordon

[Lol Hare]

I'm a C6/C7 Quad and the biggest thing i learned about transfers after a couple of years was to alway lean your head forward then you're just lifting your ass because if you're sitting more upright then you're trying to lift the weight of your head and torso plus its harder to balance,funny enough no physios taught this which is strange
As i got stronger i also left both legs on the bed when getting into my chair because i had the strength to clear the wheel,but before i used to do 1 leg on the floor and leave 1 on the bed to make a kind of tripod,to go from chair to bed/sofa/toilet etc i,like most i guess put both legs off the front of the chair and just shift myself across,hope this helps

[ETW Grumpy]

I'm a C8/T1 "high functioning" quad and I use a sliding board to transfer, although I'm trying to wean myself off of it. My PT taught me the "move your head the opposite of the direction you're going" rule. If you need to transfer to the right, while sitting still lean your head to the left and you will notice your right butt cheek start to lift a little. It's a matter of lifting your body up and pushing with your left hand (moving to the right). It does take some tricep strength. Edlee is right, start with a small thing and build on it. I can't believe your PT hasn't taught you this. How far post injury are you? If he/she doesn't improve, you should request a new PT. Hope this is reasonably coherent and helpful.

[gordonr]

Lol Hare, on Jul 13 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

As i got stronger i also left both legs on the bed when getting into my chair because i had the strength to clear the wheel,but before i used to do 1 leg on the floor...

I don't go over the wheel. I always slide a little bit forward in my chair (going into the bed). That way, I am ahead of the higher part of the wheel. Coming the other way, I leave my feet on the bed, but I position my chair so that the transfer will leave me on the front edge. Then, once my feet are down, I finish by shifting back in the chair.

-g

[qbounce]

Gordon,
Although I know exactly what your talking about by transfering your body first onto the chair, and then lifting your legs off the bed, I just wasn't taught that way. There are other instructional You Tube videos that show how to use your method as well. For a ballance issue, I could see it helping, only for those who can do their own care. I mean, would there be enough room for a carer to get in there to dig stem? And, although the toilet bench works, you have to take into consideration the space needed. My bathroom is just large enough for one of those smaller toilets. . . . . that's it. I'm on a wheel yourself in commode/ shower chair.

I'm sure others have learned it that way because the method is out there, and as you've stated, it works! For you to have figured it out on your own is pretty impressive, only because whatever I was taught in therapy I still apply as the golden rule. But there must be a zillion ways to do the same or similar functions that get the same result.

[E-DOG]

There are lots and lots of ways to arrive at the same results, your ass where you need it to be.
A little analytical thought, perhaps some deductive reasoning and good old American, English, etc know how and bang zoom, the job gets done.
If one sits there and looks closely at the problem, then in their mind applies the method already taught to them, looking for variations here and there along with a little experamentation they will very often find a more viable solution.

Think outside the box. Push the envelope of creativity. If you fall on your face, straighten your nose, call the fire dept. to send out some guys to pick you up and get you back into the chair and try it again.

[fredspike]

Here is a video of me doing a transfer and explaining it. it is on you tube and there are plenty more on there like it



using a sliding board is more of a bridge if you cannot make the full leap but you should life and shift across it rather than just sliding

[gordonr]

qbounce, on Jul 14 2009, 12:58 AM, said:

Gordon,
Although I know exactly what your talking about by transfering your body first onto the chair, and then lifting your legs off the bed, I just wasn't taught that way. There are other instructional You Tube videos that show how to use your method as well. For a ballance issue, I could see it helping, only for those who can do their own care. I mean, would there be enough room for a carer to get in there to dig stem? And, although the toilet bench works, you have to take into consideration the space needed. My bathroom is just large enough for one of those smaller toilets. . . . . that's it. I'm on a wheel yourself in commode/ shower chair.

I'm sure others have learned it that way because the method is out there, and as you've stated, it works! For you to have figured it out on your own is pretty impressive, only because whatever I was taught in therapy I still apply as the golden rule. But there must be a zillion ways to do the same or similar functions that get the same result.

Q,

Let me be sure I understand. Do you transfer with your feet down and do the pivot onto the chair?

Do you transfer alone, or assited?

I can see how pivot could be easier if you are assisted, because the feet take some of the weight and the assistant needn't be as strong.

At the hospital the orderly just got behind me and shifted me across to the chair with my feet still on the bed. And I started doing the same thing. Then I went to rehab, and the first day, the orderly saw me make my move.

He said, "That's a quad transfer man. You're a para." And told me I would be better transferring onto the side of the bed like a chair.

I did that ok (I already knew how to transfer onto chairs) but when I tried to lift up my leg... OOPS, I fell back over the bed, one leg up, one leg down and I had my hips slipping over the edge, when the guy caught me and muscled me back up on the bed.

"Uh, I guess you better do it your way ", he said, and that was that. I never looked back.

I have a lot of admiration for any quad who is doing transfers.

Not only are we gimps, but we have to be like circus performers as well:)

Best Regards,

Gordon

[LeahC]

How long have you been injured?? It says here you joined in February 2008 so what have you been doing for the last 17 months? In the UK they have extensive rehab centres and they don't let you out until you can dress yourself, transfer and do your toilet stuff.

EDIT

Just read all your previous posts, a guy I know who had Cauda Equina syndrome actually got referred to a spinal rehab centre by his doctor, I think you should push to get proper rehab xx

Edited by LeahCaprice, 14 July 2009 - 03:54 PM.

[qbounce]

gordonr, on Jul 13 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

qbounce, on Jul 14 2009, 12:58 AM, said:

Gordon,
Although I know exactly what your talking about by transfering your body first onto the chair, and then lifting your legs off the bed, I just wasn't taught that way. There are other instructional You Tube videos that show how to use your method as well. For a ballance issue, I could see it helping, only for those who can do their own care. I mean, would there be enough room for a carer to get in there to dig stem? And, although the toilet bench works, you have to take into consideration the space needed. My bathroom is just large enough for one of those smaller toilets. . . . . that's it. I'm on a wheel yourself in commode/ shower chair.

I'm sure others have learned it that way because the method is out there, and as you've stated, it works! For you to have figured it out on your own is pretty impressive, only because whatever I was taught in therapy I still apply as the golden rule. But there must be a zillion ways to do the same or similar functions that get the same result.

Q,

Let me be sure I understand. Do you transfer with your feet down and do the pivot onto the chair?

Do you transfer alone, or assited?

I can see how pivot could be easier if you are assisted, because the feet take some of the weight and the assistant needn't be as strong.

At the hospital the orderly just got behind me and shifted me across to the chair with my feet still on the bed. And I started doing the same thing. Then I went to rehab, and the first day, the orderly saw me make my move.

He said, "That's a quad transfer man. You're a para." And told me I would be better transferring onto the side of the bed like a chair.

I did that ok (I already knew how to transfer onto chairs) but when I tried to lift up my leg... OOPS, I fell back over the bed, one leg up, one leg down and I had my hips slipping over the edge, when the guy caught me and muscled me back up on the bed.

"Uh, I guess you better do it your way ", he said, and that was that. I never looked back.

I have a lot of admiration for any quad who is doing transfers.

Not only are we gimps, but we have to be like circus performers as well:)

Best Regards,

Gordon

I guess I do a "para" transfer then, unassisted. I'm a higher level quad, so I do have both bicep and tricep functions, just not complete. I use a slide board to get in/ out of cars, and I'll never be able to get off the floor unassisted, but all other transfers I do on my own.

[gordonr]

qbounce, on Jul 14 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

gordonr, on Jul 13 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

qbounce, on Jul 14 2009, 12:58 AM, said:

Gordon,
Although I know exactly what your talking about by transfering your body first onto the chair, and then lifting your legs off the bed, I just wasn't taught that way. There are other instructional You Tube videos that show how to use your method as well. For a ballance issue, I could see it helping, only for those who can do their own care. I mean, would there be enough room for a carer to get in there to dig stem? And, although the toilet bench works, you have to take into consideration the space needed. My bathroom is just large enough for one of those smaller toilets. . . . . that's it. I'm on a wheel yourself in commode/ shower chair.

I'm sure others have learned it that way because the method is out there, and as you've stated, it works! For you to have figured it out on your own is pretty impressive, only because whatever I was taught in therapy I still apply as the golden rule. But there must be a zillion ways to do the same or similar functions that get the same result.

Q,

Let me be sure I understand. Do you transfer with your feet down and do the pivot onto the chair?

Do you transfer alone, or assited?

I can see how pivot could be easier if you are assisted, because the feet take some of the weight and the assistant needn't be as strong.

At the hospital the orderly just got behind me and shifted me across to the chair with my feet still on the bed. And I started doing the same thing. Then I went to rehab, and the first day, the orderly saw me make my move.

He said, "That's a quad transfer man. You're a para." And told me I would be better transferring onto the side of the bed like a chair.

I did that ok (I already knew how to transfer onto chairs) but when I tried to lift up my leg... OOPS, I fell back over the bed, one leg up, one leg down and I had my hips slipping over the edge, when the guy caught me and muscled me back up on the bed.

"Uh, I guess you better do it your way ", he said, and that was that. I never looked back.

I have a lot of admiration for any quad who is doing transfers.

Not only are we gimps, but we have to be like circus performers as well:)

Best Regards,

Gordon

I guess I do a "para" transfer then, unassisted. I'm a higher level quad, so I do have both bicep and tricep functions, just not complete. I use a slide board to get in/ out of cars, and I'll never be able to get off the floor unassisted, but all other transfers I do on my own.

Q,

That is very interesting, and I am impressed with your independant transfers.

Reading your original post again, are you sayng that you have heard/seen of others doing their bowel routine on a bench tyoe seat with their legs straight? I'd be curious to see links or pictures. In my case, as I said, it came from the neccesity to take a dump with my leg in a full length cast. Pure freaking accident. (Which has often brought great inventions)

Best Regards,

Gordon

[megatrig]

ok this might sound silly but it isn't and it is very relevant!

How long are your arms??!!

As in are they long enough so that when you are sitting on a bed you can lift yourself up clear of the bed?

This is a crucial point in being able to transfer.

Its all about levers and so on.

more anon

[qbounce]

gordonr, on Jul 14 2009, 07:49 PM, said:

qbounce, on Jul 14 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

gordonr, on Jul 13 2009, 07:32 PM, said:

qbounce, on Jul 14 2009, 12:58 AM, said:

Gordon,
Although I know exactly what your talking about by transfering your body first onto the chair, and then lifting your legs off the bed, I just wasn't taught that way. There are other instructional You Tube videos that show how to use your method as well. For a ballance issue, I could see it helping, only for those who can do their own care. I mean, would there be enough room for a carer to get in there to dig stem? And, although the toilet bench works, you have to take into consideration the space needed. My bathroom is just large enough for one of those smaller toilets. . . . . that's it. I'm on a wheel yourself in commode/ shower chair.

I'm sure others have learned it that way because the method is out there, and as you've stated, it works! For you to have figured it out on your own is pretty impressive, only because whatever I was taught in therapy I still apply as the golden rule. But there must be a zillion ways to do the same or similar functions that get the same result.

Q,

Let me be sure I understand. Do you transfer with your feet down and do the pivot onto the chair?

Do you transfer alone, or assited?

I can see how pivot could be easier if you are assisted, because the feet take some of the weight and the assistant needn't be as strong.

At the hospital the orderly just got behind me and shifted me across to the chair with my feet still on the bed. And I started doing the same thing. Then I went to rehab, and the first day, the orderly saw me make my move.

He said, "That's a quad transfer man. You're a para." And told me I would be better transferring onto the side of the bed like a chair.

I did that ok (I already knew how to transfer onto chairs) but when I tried to lift up my leg... OOPS, I fell back over the bed, one leg up, one leg down and I had my hips slipping over the edge, when the guy caught me and muscled me back up on the bed.

"Uh, I guess you better do it your way ", he said, and that was that. I never looked back.

I have a lot of admiration for any quad who is doing transfers.

Not only are we gimps, but we have to be like circus performers as well:)

Best Regards,

Gordon

I guess I do a "para" transfer then, unassisted. I'm a higher level quad, so I do have both bicep and tricep functions, just not complete. I use a slide board to get in/ out of cars, and I'll never be able to get off the floor unassisted, but all other transfers I do on my own.

Q,

That is very interesting, and I am impressed with your independant transfers.

Reading your original post again, are you sayng that you have heard/seen of others doing their bowel routine on a bench tyoe seat with their legs straight? I'd be curious to see links or pictures. In my case, as I said, it came from the neccesity to take a dump with my leg in a full length cast. Pure freaking accident. (Which has often brought great inventions)

Best Regards,

Gordon

Gordon,
Let's first disspell any notion that my transfer abilities are above normal for my level. Believe me, they're not. I've seen another quad at my level who's driving a mini van, and he actually gets up into the drivers seat from the w/c on the ground. He can also get from the ground into his chair. That's an achievment for any paralyzed person, let alone a quad.

And, sorry I wasn't clear regarding your new found invention. I don't know anyone who has a toilet commode like the one you described. I was merely refering to the TRANSFER METHOD used.

[gordonr]

qbounce, on Jul 15 2009, 07:04 PM, said:

Gordon,
Let's first disspell any notion that my transfer abilities are above normal for my level. Believe me, they're not. I've seen another quad at my level who's driving a mini van, and he actually gets up into the drivers seat from the w/c on the ground. He can also get from the ground into his chair. That's an achievment for any paralyzed person, let alone a quad.

And, sorry I wasn't clear regarding your new found invention. I don't know anyone who has a toilet commode like the one you described. I was merely refering to the TRANSFER METHOD used.

Q,

Don't be so modest. You ae obviously elite, along wih most of the other regulars around here.

I used to be able to transfer up from the ground, but can no longer do it. I think it is mostly because I am heavier, although not obese. When I do find myself on the ground (which happens to the best of us from time to time), I look out for an intermediate level to get on first. For instance I send the littlest kid to get the stool he uses to wash his hands at the sink. Once I am up on that, getting in the chair is ok.

I prefer a minivan seat to a car seat. But neither is "just right". The car is too low, the minivan is too high. I drive a full size van, and the floor is at wheelchair/bed height, and thus the same old easy transfer. Getting up into the drivers seat is not hard, as car seats are not very high off the floor.

It is interesting that you have not seen a commode/seat like mine. Believe me, it is a heck of lot more stable and comfortable if you are the one doing the stimulation.


Best Regards,

Gordon

[In The Wind]

Transfering without the board is easy, but it does take some practice. The key is in the lean. Part forward lean and part moving your head and shoulders in the opposite direction. I looked but didn't really see any videos of a proper trnsfer on YT. Guess I'll have to do that...

[megatrig]

In The Wind, on Jul 16 2009, 04:21 PM, said:

Transfering without the board is easy, but it does take some practice. The key is in the lean. Part forward lean and part moving your head and shoulders in the opposite direction. I looked but didn't really see any videos of a proper trnsfer on YT. Guess I'll have to do that...

practice practice .... etc lol

frustrating I know but you do get there honestly|1

[Lol Hare]

gordonr, on Jul 14 2009, 01:48 AM, said:

Lol Hare, on Jul 13 2009, 10:35 PM, said:

As i got stronger i also left both legs on the bed when getting into my chair because i had the strength to clear the wheel,but before i used to do 1 leg on the floor...

I don't go over the wheel. I always slide a little bit forward in my chair (going into the bed). That way, I am ahead of the higher part of the wheel. Coming the other way, I leave my feet on the bed, but I position my chair so that the transfer will leave me on the front edge. Then, once my feet are down, I finish by shifting back in the chair.

-g

Yeah sure,I know exactly what you mean,I used to do the same but like i say,as Im now stronger I can just lift over and not bother shuffling to the front of the chair/bed first

Also like Megatrig says,it's all about levers too,When I do floor to chair,I sit on the floor sideways on to my chair and knees up to my chest then one fist on the chair and one on the floor next to my butt and push up but my head goes all the way forward so it makes my but much lighter and easier to lift up and over onto my chair,then when i'm on i use the floor/castor legs of the chair to push back then push myself upright,sorry I know it's a transfer that's a bit further along but just an example of hoe technique and leverage/weight all work

Edited by Lol Hare, 20 July 2009 - 09:19 PM.

[Ches]

Damn new chair.. I had my first Complete failed transfer attempt in it finally..

I got used to the old 17in rear to front cushion, now Im on a 15.. it makes a world of difference.. Either my ass is sitting on the wheel or I'm falling off the edge.. I'm trying to learn to jump over the wheel but f*@k that takes some clearance and long arms!

[knightrider]

Here's a tip for ya Ches and everyone infact, this is the way i do all my transfers. When you set yourself up for a transfer, put your chair at an angle with the front of the chair pointing inwards, but your still sort of side on if you know what i mean, then get forward and sit on the end of your cushion, take both feet off the footplate and transfer, like a swinging action. That way you won't land or catch the wheel on your chair.

It's the same for car transfers, put the chair at an angle, get on the end of the cushion, put both feet in, then put your right hand on the roof of the car if your in UK (left hand elsewhere) and swing in.

Hope it helps, plus you won't have to worry about knocking yourself on your wheels and having the worry of sores etc.

Edited by knightrider, 20 July 2009 - 10:18 PM.

[knightrider]

Oh and another tip lol, for getting back into your chair, say your sitting on the couch,bed or whatever and depending which side, say the right.... get yourself to the edge of whatever your sitting on, have your chair at that angle i explained before, put your right foot on the foot plate, but make sure it's facing forwards and not going to get caught when you transfer, then put your right hand on the far side of the cushion or grab the chair frame on the far side, push up and swing onto the chair. By putting your foot on the foot plate it helps with elevation and won't need to lean as far forward as a normal transfer to get the height you need.

But if you don't like it that way, just remember the further you lean forward the higher your ass will go lol.

Edited by knightrider, 20 July 2009 - 10:13 PM.

[LeahC]

knightrider, on Jul 20 2009, 11:12 PM, said:

Oh and another tip lol, for getting back into your chair, say your sitting on the couch,bed or whatever and depending which side, say the right.... get yourself to the edge of whatever your sitting on, have your chair at that angle i explained before, put your right foot on the foot plate, but make sure it's facing forwards and not going to get caught when you transfer, then put your right hand on the far side of the cushion or grab the chair frame on the far side, push up and swing onto the chair. By putting your foot on the foot plate it helps with elevation and won't need to lean as far forward as a normal transfer to get the height you need.

But if you don't like it that way, just remember the further you lean forward the higher your ass will go lol.

I did that once getting out of bed and was a bit too enthusiastic haha! I went arse over tit and ended up on the floor on my back, my legs in the air against my wardrobe shouting 'ahhh!' lol!

[knightrider]

Lmao, so you lifted too high? I done that once and went....oooops, face plant haha, i proper shit my load, not literally tho lol, but was scary First thing in the morning my balance is shot to shit, so i'm all over the place and thats when i done that magical transfer lol.
Hope you were ok.

Edited by knightrider, 21 July 2009 - 12:51 AM.

[Ches]

Haha poor Leah!

I get what you're saying Knight.. I pretty much transfer like that already, just having to adjust to the new chair is all..

I will say this.. I CANT transfer with both feet on the ground, one has to be on the footplate.. I got too much leg and not enough arm,. I need all the lift I can get!

[knightrider]

I get ya. Well say your tranferring to the left on the bed, say. Do like i said with the chair on the angle and just leave the right foot on the foot plate. There's so many ways to put your hands, what i normally do is make a fist, once i'm already on the edge of the cushion, and lean to the left, put it sort of under me, lean forward push up and swing my body weight to the left and it's done. It's all about practice really, the more you do it the easier it becomes.

And once you've mastered it, you'll probably have your own way of doing it, just like me and every one else. You'll get there, just remember to lean forwards and take your time. Getting used to a new chair will prob be tricky, but shouldn't take too long to adjust to, just keep at it

I just wish the way i now do transfers is the way everyone is taught in rehab, it's so much easier.

Edited by knightrider, 21 July 2009 - 02:47 AM.

[axl from down under]

Hi

I'm a T8 para, the best advice I can give is to actually watch transfers to get an idea where to postion your hands and when to lift etc.

below are some actual footage of wheelchair transfers



http://www.spinalist...to-bed-601.html

http://www.spinalist...transfer-6.html

this website has heaps of tips for people with spinal injuries, may help with other things you need help with

http://www.spinalist...categories.html

Good luck with it, it does take time, buth then becomes second nature- as they say practice makes perfect

Tanya