57 replies to this topic

[love&hate]

Can anybody confirm this is not just another scam. If this is true it can change my life. I move around with cane just because of my drop foot. God, I'm so excited. I hope this is true.
Anybody can provide any more information pls. =D

I wonder how its gonna interact with possible spasms.

Edited by love&hate, 11 August 2009 - 06:12 AM.

[Slowlegs]

McCann, on Aug 11 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

The article states, "NICE has produced this guidance because the procedure is quite new. This means that there is not a lot of information yet about how well it works, how safe it is and which patients will benefit most from it.
This leaflet is written to help people who have been offered this procedure to decide whether to agree (consent) to it or not. It does not describe drop foot or the procedure in detail – a member of your healthcare team should also give you full information and advice about these. The leaflet includes some questions you may want to ask your doctor to help you reach a decision."


Dropfoot (aka plantar flexion) can be helped through several methods, but first a brief on how it works within one's body in easier terms. The body has many push/pull muscles like the bicep and tricep (most known). Regarding drop foot the problem area is the gastroc or calf muscle (3areas-inner, outer, and soleus/middle) is tight or "cramped" causing plantar flexion (analogy is as wearing high heels so ability to walk heel toe doesn't happen). Think of it as the "push" muscle.

The "pull" muscle would be your anterior tibialis. One well known/understood method is patients with drop foot get injected in the gastroc/calf (usually all 3areas of the calf) with botox (and not to make your calf look younger,lol). The biggest myth is that botox weakens the muscle and would make walking much harder/difficult, Wrong. Botox relaxes the tightness or "cramp" in your gastroc/calf and when that happens, one gets an increase in range of motion that would allow for dorsi flexion (heel toe). The problem is that your anterior tibialis has been out of function (atrophied) for so long, you don't have the strength to dorsi flex repetitively and properly as you walk.

Two good ways to check your dorsi flexion strength are to:
!) sit and attempt to tap your foot repetitively (as playing bass drum or tapping your foot to a fast beat of a song)
2) stand and try to walk on your heels.

Okay, how do you build strength in your anterior tibialis. As in the phases of ProjectWalk the first phase involves reactivating/activating your anterior tibialis to produce proper dorsi flexion. If you have slight anterior tibialis strength and can lift off the floor/surface do strengthening exercises or try FES. The problem with typical DC current FES machines is that they only work the percentage of muscle fibers already active. In other words if only 20% is active then that's the percentage the FES uses and fatigues. The other 80% will stay inactive not to mention the skin and nerve damage from prolonged use of it.

If you don't use an AC current NMES then a helpful strategy is doing the dorsi flexion exercises in water, on land placing ankle weights (progress from light to heavy) on top of your foot, foot reflexology, and calf massages.

Retrain your CNS by breaking down larger movements to smaller ones.

Hi McCann.
I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion. Drop foot is caused by the fact that the foot is unable to be held up by the anterior tibialis and a foot drop doesn't necessarily mean that the calf muscle is too tight.

A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles. In such a case, no amount of use by a FES or NMES machine will do anything more than perhaps help prevent some of the wasting of the muscles which will never be of help to the spinally injured whose spinal cords are permanently damaged. The spinal cord has to be able to repair itself.

The NMES or FES machines alone are unable to help this and are in no way a miracle cure for a spinal injury. The walk aid is totally different and comparing a standard NMES or FES machine is about as logical as comparing an engine to a motor vehicle. Difference is the walk aid is smart technology that responds to the needs of the person using it to assist walking whereas standard NMES and FES machines are just "dumb" (as in they don't think for themselves or supply varied power signals as required to assist walking) technology that just put out a constant (whether AC or DC or high or low voltage) signal.

They're like chalk and cheese and comparing them in order to attempt to "spread the news" about your "Amway" cure is as far as I am concerned both callous and opportunistic. I hope the "signals" I and the others are trying to send you on this are clear. We are discussing the walk aid. Not the items you seem so frantically to be peddling here. Perhaps if you'd like to push them further you could start up your own website.

I do agree with you on one thing though Mc Cann in that it won't necessarily work for everyone, especially with atriophied muscles. If I were you Love & Hate I would probably get medical advice and perhaps try to arrange a trial period. If your muscles are atrophied then a standard tens machine will help to build up the muscles, as will using the walk aid over a longer period. Like anything with relation to muscle strengthening you will find it takes a lot of hard work and time too.

Edited by Slowlegs, 11 August 2009 - 07:47 PM.

[greybeard]

Slowlegs, on Aug 11 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

Hi McCann.
I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion. Drop foot is caused by the fact that the foot is unable to be held up by the anterior tibialis and a foot drop doesn't necessarily mean that the calf muscle is too tight.

A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles. In such a case, no amount of use by a FES or NMES machine will do anything more than perhaps help prevent some of the wasting of the muscles which will never be of help to the spinally injured whose spinal cords are permanently damaged. The spinal cord has to be able to repair itself.

I can attest to the truth of that. There is absolutely no tightening of my calf muscles, so that could not be said to be the cause of my foot drop. It is caused by impairment of the motor nerves within the spine.

Slowlegs, on Aug 11 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

They're like chalk and cheese and comparing them in order to attempt to "spread the news" about your "Amway" cure is as far as I am concerned both callous and opportunistic. I hope the "signals" I and the others are trying to send you on this are clear. We are discussing the walk aid. Not the items you seem so frantically to be peddling here. Perhaps if you'd like to push them further you could start up your own website.

Here here!
I did earlier describe McCann's sales pitch as "relentless". He certainly never misses an opportunity!

.....and to set the record straight McCann, when I said in another thread that I didn't believe you, I was referring to your denials that you are trying to sell these machines. I don't doubt you have recovered some function. Good for you. Some people do. Whether your recovery was because of your wonder cure is very much in doubt as you ought, by now, to have gathered from the responses here.

Why not do as Slowlegs suggests and set up your own website. You'll probably make more commission that way.

[love&hate]

hey guys

Walkaid .. Its very clever and interesting device but is it really a solution to drop foot problem? I'm not so sure about it. I read everything they have on the website and after an hour of research I

have more questions then answers.

I was very excited about it when I first saw the video on you tube. I was even dreaming about it last night. No joke =p. I got my hopes up very quickly.

It can be really life changing for me. Some of you guys know my story. Basically my injury was Brown-Séquard syndrome http://en.wikipedia....©quard_syndrome.

It means I was able to recover most of movement on 1 side. This is exactly why this device is so significant in my case. It can help me get rid of my chair once and for all.

I'm not gonna lie it looks VERY promising but part of me is still skeptical. I just dont trust everything I see on TV or You Tube in this case. Obviously.

My main concern are spasm. It is a major problem in my case. After some time walking my leg can lock up or start spasming. I cant control it. I used botox few times already and it never had a

significant effect on my muscles.

Anyway, I trust our community on this forums and would love to hear/read from somebody that experienced this device already. Since 5000$ is a lot money for me I will hold on with my purchase until i get a positive feedback from somebody trustworthy. I really hope this device is what they wrote it is. Not another useless gadget. Bart.

[McCann]

Slowlegs, on Aug 11 2009, 06:42 AM, said:

McCann, on Aug 11 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

The article states, "NICE has produced this guidance because the procedure is quite new. This means that there is not a lot of information yet about how well it works, how safe it is and which patients will benefit most from it.
This leaflet is written to help people who have been offered this procedure to decide whether to agree (consent) to it or not. It does not describe drop foot or the procedure in detail – a member of your healthcare team should also give you full information and advice about these. The leaflet includes some questions you may want to ask your doctor to help you reach a decision."


Dropfoot (aka plantar flexion) can be helped through several methods, but first a brief on how it works within one's body in easier terms. The body has many push/pull muscles like the bicep and tricep (most known). Regarding drop foot the problem area is the gastroc or calf muscle (3areas-inner, outer, and soleus/middle) is tight or "cramped" causing plantar flexion (analogy is as wearing high heels so ability to walk heel toe doesn't happen). Think of it as the "push" muscle.

The "pull" muscle would be your anterior tibialis. One well known/understood method is patients with drop foot get injected in the gastroc/calf (usually all 3areas of the calf) with botox (and not to make your calf look younger,lol). The biggest myth is that botox weakens the muscle and would make walking much harder/difficult, Wrong. Botox relaxes the tightness or "cramp" in your gastroc/calf and when that happens, one gets an increase in range of motion that would allow for dorsi flexion (heel toe). The problem is that your anterior tibialis has been out of function (atrophied) for so long, you don't have the strength to dorsi flex repetitively and properly as you walk.

Two good ways to check your dorsi flexion strength are to:
!) sit and attempt to tap your foot repetitively (as playing bass drum or tapping your foot to a fast beat of a song)
2) stand and try to walk on your heels.

Okay, how do you build strength in your anterior tibialis. As in the phases of ProjectWalk the first phase involves reactivating/activating your anterior tibialis to produce proper dorsi flexion. If you have slight anterior tibialis strength and can lift off the floor/surface do strengthening exercises or try FES. The problem with typical DC current FES machines is that they only work the percentage of muscle fibers already active. In other words if only 20% is active then that's the percentage the FES uses and fatigues. The other 80% will stay inactive not to mention the skin and nerve damage from prolonged use of it.

If you don't use an AC current NMES then a helpful strategy is doing the dorsi flexion exercises in water, on land placing ankle weights (progress from light to heavy) on top of your foot, foot reflexology, and calf massages.

Retrain your CNS by breaking down larger movements to smaller ones.

Hi McCann.
I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion. Drop foot is caused by the fact that the foot is unable to be held up by the anterior tibialis and a foot drop doesn't necessarily mean that the calf muscle is too tight.

A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles. In such a case, no amount of use by a FES or NMES machine will do anything more than perhaps help prevent some of the wasting of the muscles which will never be of help to the spinally injured whose spinal cords are permanently damaged. The spinal cord has to be able to repair itself.

The NMES or FES machines alone are unable to help this and are in no way a miracle cure for a spinal injury. The walk aid is totally different and comparing a standard NMES or FES machine is about as logical as comparing an engine to a motor vehicle. Difference is the walk aid is smart technology that responds to the needs of the person using it to assist walking whereas standard NMES and FES machines are just "dumb" (as in they don't think for themselves or supply varied power signals as required to assist walking) technology that just put out a constant (whether AC or DC or high or low voltage) signal.

They're like chalk and cheese and comparing them in order to attempt to "spread the news" about your "Amway" cure is as far as I am concerned both callous and opportunistic. I hope the "signals" I and the others are trying to send you on this are clear. We are discussing the walk aid. Not the items you seem so frantically to be peddling here. Perhaps if you'd like to push them further you could start up your own website.

I do agree with you on one thing though Mc Cann in that it won't necessarily work for everyone, especially with atriophied muscles. If I were you Love & Hate I would probably get medical advice and perhaps try to arrange a trial period. If your muscles are atrophied then a standard tens machine will help to build up the muscles, as will using the walk aid over a longer period. Like anything with relation to muscle strengthening you will find it takes a lot of hard work and time too.

Ahhh nice to have a challenge of thought with you again.

1) You wrote, "I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion." Correct you are and the mistake I made was stating of the VOLUNTARY (concentric for technical term) use via strength of dorsi flexion. True you are about having full range for the problem is strength.

2) You wrote, "A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles." Ok, if it's severed then as I stated the first time that is obviously different in situation.

3) You wrote, "using it to assist walking whereas standard NMES and FES machines are just "dumb" (as in they don't think for themselves or supply varied power signals as required to assist walking) technology that just put out a constant (whether AC or DC or high or low voltage) signal." I know someone who got this product and used it. It has worked sporatically because unless the voltage was increased or she stretched extensively prior to her using it to walk, it didn't work as effectively, always.

Something you should think about is the idea of the time length of disuse it takes for a muscle to become atrophied?

Edited by McCann, 11 August 2009 - 10:21 PM.

[McCann]

greybeard, on Aug 11 2009, 10:25 AM, said:

Slowlegs, on Aug 11 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

Hi McCann.
I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion. Drop foot is caused by the fact that the foot is unable to be held up by the anterior tibialis and a foot drop doesn't necessarily mean that the calf muscle is too tight.

A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles. In such a case, no amount of use by a FES or NMES machine will do anything more than perhaps help prevent some of the wasting of the muscles which will never be of help to the spinally injured whose spinal cords are permanently damaged. The spinal cord has to be able to repair itself.

I can attest to the truth of that. There is absolutely no tightening of my calf muscles, so that could not be said to be the cause of my foot drop. It is caused by impairment of the motor nerves within the spine.

Slowlegs, on Aug 11 2009, 11:42 AM, said:

They're like chalk and cheese and comparing them in order to attempt to "spread the news" about your "Amway" cure is as far as I am concerned both callous and opportunistic. I hope the "signals" I and the others are trying to send you on this are clear. We are discussing the walk aid. Not the items you seem so frantically to be peddling here. Perhaps if you'd like to push them further you could start up your own website.

Here here!
I did earlier describe McCann's sales pitch as "relentless". He certainly never misses an opportunity!

.....and to set the record straight McCann, when I said in another thread that I didn't believe you, I was referring to your denials that you are trying to sell these machines. I don't doubt you have recovered some function. Good for you. Some people do. Whether your recovery was because of your wonder cure is very much in doubt as you ought, by now, to have gathered from the responses here.

Why not do as Slowlegs suggests and set up your own website. You'll probably make more commission that way.

And Mr. Greybeard, actually if you took time to research and care about drop foot you would better understand the process I speak of.

You would know and understand the way I briefed the calf muscle's involvement so as to not get overly anatomical. The muscles I spoke of are the primary ones involved in the process. However, there are two types. Those of superficial and that of deeper. But truly the nerves are from the sacral spinal cord roots S1 and S2 which are addressed with the NMES but not the walk-aide. And I realized that my password optimist was accidently erased for those that have been interested in viewing my status from past to present. I put it back in my about me portion of my profile.

I do attribute a large part of my recovery process to the NMES unit but it's not as though it's the only strategy I used. That combined with proper nutrition, aquatic, weights, and cardio. But the NMES made it possible for me to get to those levels of activity (strategies).

My hands are necessary in the raising of my daughter to be soon and my ability to have grip and pinch strength I do attribute largely ot my use of the NMES.

Edited by McCann, 11 August 2009 - 10:14 PM.

[Slowlegs]

McCann, on Aug 11 2009, 09:22 PM, said:

Slowlegs, on Aug 11 2009, 06:42 AM, said:

McCann, on Aug 11 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

The article states, "NICE has produced this guidance because the procedure is quite new. This means that there is not a lot of information yet about how well it works, how safe it is and which patients will benefit most from it.
This leaflet is written to help people who have been offered this procedure to decide whether to agree (consent) to it or not. It does not describe drop foot or the procedure in detail – a member of your healthcare team should also give you full information and advice about these. The leaflet includes some questions you may want to ask your doctor to help you reach a decision."


Dropfoot (aka plantar flexion) can be helped through several methods, but first a brief on how it works within one's body in easier terms. The body has many push/pull muscles like the bicep and tricep (most known). Regarding drop foot the problem area is the gastroc or calf muscle (3areas-inner, outer, and soleus/middle) is tight or "cramped" causing plantar flexion (analogy is as wearing high heels so ability to walk heel toe doesn't happen). Think of it as the "push" muscle.

The "pull" muscle would be your anterior tibialis. One well known/understood method is patients with drop foot get injected in the gastroc/calf (usually all 3areas of the calf) with botox (and not to make your calf look younger,lol). The biggest myth is that botox weakens the muscle and would make walking much harder/difficult, Wrong. Botox relaxes the tightness or "cramp" in your gastroc/calf and when that happens, one gets an increase in range of motion that would allow for dorsi flexion (heel toe). The problem is that your anterior tibialis has been out of function (atrophied) for so long, you don't have the strength to dorsi flex repetitively and properly as you walk.

Two good ways to check your dorsi flexion strength are to:
!) sit and attempt to tap your foot repetitively (as playing bass drum or tapping your foot to a fast beat of a song)
2) stand and try to walk on your heels.

Okay, how do you build strength in your anterior tibialis. As in the phases of ProjectWalk the first phase involves reactivating/activating your anterior tibialis to produce proper dorsi flexion. If you have slight anterior tibialis strength and can lift off the floor/surface do strengthening exercises or try FES. The problem with typical DC current FES machines is that they only work the percentage of muscle fibers already active. In other words if only 20% is active then that's the percentage the FES uses and fatigues. The other 80% will stay inactive not to mention the skin and nerve damage from prolonged use of it.

If you don't use an AC current NMES then a helpful strategy is doing the dorsi flexion exercises in water, on land placing ankle weights (progress from light to heavy) on top of your foot, foot reflexology, and calf massages.

Retrain your CNS by breaking down larger movements to smaller ones.

Hi McCann.
I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion. Drop foot is caused by the fact that the foot is unable to be held up by the anterior tibialis and a foot drop doesn't necessarily mean that the calf muscle is too tight.

A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles. In such a case, no amount of use by a FES or NMES machine will do anything more than perhaps help prevent some of the wasting of the muscles which will never be of help to the spinally injured whose spinal cords are permanently damaged. The spinal cord has to be able to repair itself.

The NMES or FES machines alone are unable to help this and are in no way a miracle cure for a spinal injury. The walk aid is totally different and comparing a standard NMES or FES machine is about as logical as comparing an engine to a motor vehicle. Difference is the walk aid is smart technology that responds to the needs of the person using it to assist walking whereas standard NMES and FES machines are just "dumb" (as in they don't think for themselves or supply varied power signals as required to assist walking) technology that just put out a constant (whether AC or DC or high or low voltage) signal.

They're like chalk and cheese and comparing them in order to attempt to "spread the news" about your "Amway" cure is as far as I am concerned both callous and opportunistic. I hope the "signals" I and the others are trying to send you on this are clear. We are discussing the walk aid. Not the items you seem so frantically to be peddling here. Perhaps if you'd like to push them further you could start up your own website.

I do agree with you on one thing though Mc Cann in that it won't necessarily work for everyone, especially with atriophied muscles. If I were you Love & Hate I would probably get medical advice and perhaps try to arrange a trial period. If your muscles are atrophied then a standard tens machine will help to build up the muscles, as will using the walk aid over a longer period. Like anything with relation to muscle strengthening you will find it takes a lot of hard work and time too.

Ahhh nice to have a challenge of thought with you again.

1) You wrote, "I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion." Correct you are and the mistake I made was stating of the VOLUNTARY (concentric for technical term) use via strength of dorsi flexion. True you are about having full range for the problem is strength.

2) You wrote, "A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles." Ok, if it's severed then as I stated the first time that is obviously different in situation.

3) You wrote, "using it to assist walking whereas standard NMES and FES machines are just "dumb" (as in they don't think for themselves or supply varied power signals as required to assist walking) technology that just put out a constant (whether AC or DC or high or low voltage) signal." I know someone who got this product and used it. It has worked sporatically because unless the voltage was increased or she stretched extensively prior to her using it to walk, it didn't work as effectively, always.

Something you should think about is the idea of the time length of disuse it takes for a muscle to become atrophied?

I am not sure if the last comment was for me or for LoveandHate. I agree that the FES or NMES machines could help one to build up the muscles that hold the foot up. Unlike the walk aid though, they are unable to send out demand sensitive signals to assist the foot to lift itself intermittently and as required to walk. If someone is able to walk with a foot drop, chances are the walk aid will be a help to their mobility from what I can see. Unfortunately if the nerve signals don't get from the brain to the muscle then there is no reason to have muscles when they can't be used and no amount of FES or NMES machines will help as well as the walk aid. It's like taking the chain off a pushbike. You will sit there spinning the crank all day (wanting to walk) but get nowhere because there is a connection missing.

Take for instance Christopher Reeves. He put thousands of hours and countless dollars into physio in an attempt to get himself walking again. In the end no amount of physio, FES or NMES would help him because the nerves didn't regenerate. I used a large NMES type machine back in 1985 and it looked at least 20 years old then. Strapping machines all over himself and jolting himself with electricity wouldn't have done a thing other than retain some muscle tone for Mr Reeves.

It's the same old thing - the signals wouldn't get through. The walk aid would also have been useless in his case. I think it is criminally wrong for anyone to attempt to sell anything to people who have severed or severely impaired spinal cords without letting them know the possible side effects and letting them know the reality it may not work for them. To me it is about informed choice. You have done well McCann but just because you were lucky enough to have had nerves which regenerated and had the guts and determination as well to make a good recovery as I did too, please don't give others on this site false hope with your NMES machine ideas because you may just open yourself up for a few lawsuits. Chances are it helped you on your way but that is all it did and I am sure you would have walked again without it as would everyone else on this site if it were physically possible.

Shout out please those who wouldn't be walking again if it were humanly possible for them to.

Edited by Slowlegs, 12 August 2009 - 07:51 PM.

[McCann]

Slowlegs, on Aug 12 2009, 03:24 AM, said:

McCann, on Aug 11 2009, 09:22 PM, said:

Slowlegs, on Aug 11 2009, 06:42 AM, said:

McCann, on Aug 11 2009, 04:14 AM, said:

The article states, "NICE has produced this guidance because the procedure is quite new. This means that there is not a lot of information yet about how well it works, how safe it is and which patients will benefit most from it.
This leaflet is written to help people who have been offered this procedure to decide whether to agree (consent) to it or not. It does not describe drop foot or the procedure in detail – a member of your healthcare team should also give you full information and advice about these. The leaflet includes some questions you may want to ask your doctor to help you reach a decision."


Dropfoot (aka plantar flexion) can be helped through several methods, but first a brief on how it works within one's body in easier terms. The body has many push/pull muscles like the bicep and tricep (most known). Regarding drop foot the problem area is the gastroc or calf muscle (3areas-inner, outer, and soleus/middle) is tight or "cramped" causing plantar flexion (analogy is as wearing high heels so ability to walk heel toe doesn't happen). Think of it as the "push" muscle.

The "pull" muscle would be your anterior tibialis. One well known/understood method is patients with drop foot get injected in the gastroc/calf (usually all 3areas of the calf) with botox (and not to make your calf look younger,lol). The biggest myth is that botox weakens the muscle and would make walking much harder/difficult, Wrong. Botox relaxes the tightness or "cramp" in your gastroc/calf and when that happens, one gets an increase in range of motion that would allow for dorsi flexion (heel toe). The problem is that your anterior tibialis has been out of function (atrophied) for so long, you don't have the strength to dorsi flex repetitively and properly as you walk.

Two good ways to check your dorsi flexion strength are to:
!) sit and attempt to tap your foot repetitively (as playing bass drum or tapping your foot to a fast beat of a song)
2) stand and try to walk on your heels.

Okay, how do you build strength in your anterior tibialis. As in the phases of ProjectWalk the first phase involves reactivating/activating your anterior tibialis to produce proper dorsi flexion. If you have slight anterior tibialis strength and can lift off the floor/surface do strengthening exercises or try FES. The problem with typical DC current FES machines is that they only work the percentage of muscle fibers already active. In other words if only 20% is active then that's the percentage the FES uses and fatigues. The other 80% will stay inactive not to mention the skin and nerve damage from prolonged use of it.

If you don't use an AC current NMES then a helpful strategy is doing the dorsi flexion exercises in water, on land placing ankle weights (progress from light to heavy) on top of your foot, foot reflexology, and calf massages.

Retrain your CNS by breaking down larger movements to smaller ones.

Hi McCann.
I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion. Drop foot is caused by the fact that the foot is unable to be held up by the anterior tibialis and a foot drop doesn't necessarily mean that the calf muscle is too tight.

A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles. In such a case, no amount of use by a FES or NMES machine will do anything more than perhaps help prevent some of the wasting of the muscles which will never be of help to the spinally injured whose spinal cords are permanently damaged. The spinal cord has to be able to repair itself.

The NMES or FES machines alone are unable to help this and are in no way a miracle cure for a spinal injury. The walk aid is totally different and comparing a standard NMES or FES machine is about as logical as comparing an engine to a motor vehicle. Difference is the walk aid is smart technology that responds to the needs of the person using it to assist walking whereas standard NMES and FES machines are just "dumb" (as in they don't think for themselves or supply varied power signals as required to assist walking) technology that just put out a constant (whether AC or DC or high or low voltage) signal.

They're like chalk and cheese and comparing them in order to attempt to "spread the news" about your "Amway" cure is as far as I am concerned both callous and opportunistic. I hope the "signals" I and the others are trying to send you on this are clear. We are discussing the walk aid. Not the items you seem so frantically to be peddling here. Perhaps if you'd like to push them further you could start up your own website.

I do agree with you on one thing though Mc Cann in that it won't necessarily work for everyone, especially with atriophied muscles. If I were you Love & Hate I would probably get medical advice and perhaps try to arrange a trial period. If your muscles are atrophied then a standard tens machine will help to build up the muscles, as will using the walk aid over a longer period. Like anything with relation to muscle strengthening you will find it takes a lot of hard work and time too.

Ahhh nice to have a challenge of thought with you again.

1) You wrote, "I am afraid that having a tight calf muscle is not the sole cause of drop foot but does come about as a secondary result of it. A patient can present with foot drop who has full range of plantar and dorsy flexion." Correct you are and the mistake I made was stating of the VOLUNTARY (concentric for technical term) use via strength of dorsi flexion. True you are about having full range for the problem is strength.

2) You wrote, "A person who has their spinal cord severed will instantly have a foot drop and the muscles won't be atrophied nor will the calf muscle be tight. The signal doesn't get through the nerves to operate the muscles." Ok, if it's severed then as I stated the first time that is obviously different in situation.

3) You wrote, "using it to assist walking whereas standard NMES and FES machines are just "dumb" (as in they don't think for themselves or supply varied power signals as required to assist walking) technology that just put out a constant (whether AC or DC or high or low voltage) signal." I know someone who got this product and used it. It has worked sporatically because unless the voltage was increased or she stretched extensively prior to her using it to walk, it didn't work as effectively, always.

Something you should think about is the idea of the time length of disuse it takes for a muscle to become atrophied?

I am not sure if the last comment was for me or for LoveandHate. I agree that the FES or NMES machines could help one to build up the muscles that hold the foot up. Unlike the walk aid though, they are unable to send out demand sensitive signals to assist the foot to lift itself intermittently and as required to walk. If someone is able to walk with a foot drop, chances are the walk aid will be a help to their mobility from what I can see. Unfortunately if the nerve signals don't get from the brain to the muscle then there is no reason to have muscles when they can't be used and no amount of FES or NMES machines will help as well as the walk aid. It's like taking the chain off a pushbike. You will sit there spinning the crank all day (wanting to walk) but get nowhere because there is a connection missing.

Take for instance Christopher Reeves. He put thousands of hours and countless dollars into physio in an attempt to get himself walking again. In the end no amount of physio, FES or NMES would help him because the nerves didn't regenerate. I used a large NMES type machine back in 1985 and it looked at least 20 years old then. Strapping machines all over himself and jolting himself with electricity wouldn't have done a thing other than retain some muscle tone for Mr Reeves.

It's the same old thing - the signals wouldn't get through. The walk aid would also have been useless in his case. I think it is criminally wrong for anyone to attempt to sell anything to people who have severed or severely impaired spinal cords without letting them know the possible side effects and letting them know the reality it may not work for them. To me it is about informed choice. You have done well McCann but just because you were lucky enough to have had nerves which regenerated and had the guts and determination as well to make a good recovery as I did too, please don't give others on this site false hope with your NMES machine ideas because you may just open yourself up for a few lawsuits. Chances are it helped you on your way but that is all it did and I am sure you would have walked again without it as would everyone else on this site if it were physically possible.

Shout out please those who wouldn't be walking again if it were humanly possible for them to.

Ok, the question regarding atrophy was to you. Not all FES machines are capable of building muscle. Now you are causing me to venture over to the technical side, but I'll try to keep it basic/understandable and brief/to the point.

1) Firstly, the important factor to keep in mind is that the NMES I speak of/refer to is FDA approved since 1993 (not a simple task to do) for several uses, unlike other gadgets and devices.

2) Secondly, if one does not truly address the causes for drop foot then what are you suggesting? Do you suggest that one walk with the walke-aide for what length of time? Without the "device" on, will you walk properly? Does it build strength in the correct muscle?

3) Thirdly, I am not a superhuman being whose "nerves regenerated." You are mixing up the idea of nerve impingement and/or nerve compression with signals that travel along axons to go through the CNS and are sent to appropriate extremities.

You seem to hold much interest in how this process works within the body but seem to know a slight basic idea of things and an incorrect understanding as it goes further in depth.

Please read this line: Now this is not written to be offensive towards you, so kindly don't misinterpret my writings to you that way.

I can attest that I wouldn't have walked along with many other things (hands, bladder and bowel control, impregnating my fiance to have a daughter, etc) without the NMES for numerous reasons. But never have I claimed it to be as a microwave-like cure or a one-and-only strategy that fixes all problems.

You are the one that seems to be quite intrigued in this NMES and probably wonder if and how it helps those with severed connections, but have no positive civil ways to discuss this with me. Is this your best attempt at a rebuttal for my reply about the dropfoot process and what it entails? (because my detailed answers are correct?)

Why do you feel the need to single me out for correctly identifying and informing of the subject matter?

Also, please refrain from trying to use threats and scare tatics of "lawsuits" towards me.

Stop wasting people's attention with this public display of your dislike to me and send me emails or something. Or you just ignore my writings.

And lastly, nowhere have I ever made it a point to have focus on only walking, but it seems like you do. My writings of the body is as the bike chain (you attempted to copy me on). Each link is important in its function of moving the bike purposefully forward.

Please, I will only respond to you if/when you ask appropriate questions to me regarding something I wrote. Why do I detect such bitterness from you towards me? Whatever the reason its okay and I hold my view of you with no malice. Enjoy your day.

Edited by McCann, 13 August 2009 - 02:36 AM.

[Slowlegs]

Aah, what twisted words you weave McCann, to paraphrase.

Firstly, just because something is "FDA approved for several uses" doesn't mean it necessarily will allow someone who has irrepairable nerve damage to walk again as it could have been approved as safe for use, not a guaranteed cure for all those with SCI.

Secondly, if a person is able to walk, albeit with a foot drop and the walk aide helps, eventually the muscles will strengthen. I didn't actually suggest it be completely used on its own without some other help by a qualified specialists. The difference in our posts being in that I don't like to see people ripped off buying things which won't work whilst yours seem mainly about selling your favourite brand of NMES machine through cutting and pasting and smoke and mirrors and without any scientific proof. Bogus studies paid for by companies selling the same product are not necessarily scientific proof.

Thirdly, I feel you are far from superhuman and I feel that although you insist that your recovery was down to the NMES machine, a lot of the time it's just the luck of the draw followed by an awful lot of hard work. Most who have recovered function from any form of SCI will attest to this I am sure.

As far as me mentioning the bike chain analogy, I don't recall seeing any mention of any chain in the messages I replied to. I don't scrutinise your every post to the minutest of degrees (I find your constant vague ravings about the NMES machines to be rather mind numbingly boring in fact) but please feel free to correct me if you feel I am wrong. Please also remember that the bike is a very common piece of equipment and bike analogies have been probably used since they were first invented. Accusing someone of copying you without proof after all amounts to libel so you may want to refrain from such accusations.

You seem to unfortunately be a master of cut and paste Mc Cann but I won't stop posting replies to your outrageous posts which seem to go out of their way to extoll the virtues of the NMES machine you used in an almost envangeligical fanaticism. You have attempted to turn the topic this post was started about to your advantage and now it isn't going your way I should shut up because I disagree with your methods? Unfortunately you can't expect a site that wasn't expressly created to advertise what you are pushing to work that way. As you started a new post after my last one about foot drop by pasting more NMES drivel perhaps you should concentrate on that one.

Please note that I wasn't threatening you with a lawsuit, thankfully I live on the opposite side of the planet from the worlds mist litigious society. I was merely trying to say that by posting all you do in your blind faith of the NMES machine you could perhaps open yourself up to the very real risk of being sued, especially if you are making anything from the sale of said NMES machines which I feel you may be in some way or another as commission.

Lastly because the rest isn't something I'd ever really bother replying to, please refrain from your personal digs and personal attacks via private message in your thinly veiled attempts to have all bad press about the NMES machines removed to a private arena or you will be blocked from sending any more private messages to me. Quite why Simon hasn't revoked your membership by now I will never know.

I do wholeheartedly apologize to all of the others who are reading this post to try and find out about the walk aid but I feel extremely strongly about people offering miracle cures to others, having been ripped off because of my own desperation for a supposed miracle cure blinded me in the past into parting with hundreds of dollars of my own hard earned cash.



Now, please let's talk more about the walk aid. If you want to know more about NMES, please visit the foot drop post that McCann has so kindly set up to inform you about his favourite NMES machines.

Edited by Slowlegs, 13 August 2009 - 10:32 AM.

[Yasko]

E-DOG, on Aug 6 2009, 10:51 PM, said:

fatdave, on Aug 4 2009, 03:28 PM, said:

This would be perfect for me. The price is out of reach at the moment, and getting the state to pay for it would be like convincing them I need breast implants. I wonder if it would allow me to drive a car with a proper manual again....or even better go back to work driving.

Who cares if you ever drive a manual again!
I wanna see you with some big ol' knockers!

E

[Fisher_Girl]

Hi everyone.

I am new to this site and just have a quick question which I am sure someone can answer, is this device for paraplegics only, I understand all outcomes of sci's are different but i'm just curious if quadriplegics would be able to use this depending on there upper body strength and what not??

Thanks

[Slowlegs]

Fisher_Girl, on Aug 13 2009, 07:50 PM, said:

Hi everyone.

I am new to this site and just have a quick question which I am sure someone can answer, is this device for paraplegics only, I understand all outcomes of sci's are different but i'm just curious if quadriplegics would be able to use this depending on there upper body strength and what not??

Thanks

Hi Fisher Girl, as far as I can see it works to assist the foot to lift using the muscles by electric current, it has a tilt sensor that applies current on or just before the forward swing of the leg. It could as far as I can see quite possibly help both paras and quads alike as long as they are walking but I feel they must probably be able to bend at the knee while walking although I am not entirely sure. On their website www.walkaide.com I found this: "WalkAide is a neuroprosthetics device that channels electrical stimulation to the leg and foot in order to restore typical nerve-to-muscle signals, effectively lifting the foot at the appropriate time. WalkAide is among the most celebrated and highly regarded neuroprosthetics innovations available today because many people experience immediate and substantial improvement in their walking ability." Hope this helps. I am quite interested in this myself and I am sure the price may eventually come down once they start making money. On their websites they also refer to these helping stroke victims.

Edited by Slowlegs, 13 August 2009 - 08:00 PM.

[McCann]

For those that do not know anyone that has the walkaide and only gets information from those that assume, guess, and have an idea of "it" but no credible experience or source, kindly read. Read then determine for self what your choice is to be of this device. This info is provided to let you know that products don't haphazardly appear to the public both nationally and internationally, at least legally.

The question asked wasn't about possibly curing of "irrepairable nerve damage," but "for safe use." Well I encourage many to view the work of experts or "qualified specialists" in what they do, ensuring things are safe for public use and what they are/make claims to do.

Now this knowledge is viewable to the public eye as is this information copy pasted from this link: http://www.accessdat...FOI__ID=1146184

"Event Date 07/28/2008
Event Type Injury Patient Outcome Other;

Event Description
This patient uses the walkaide device from innovative neurotronics which is a device that uses skin surface electrodes to treat drop foot. Patient's father e-mailed on 08/27/2008 stating that the patient had developed sores on her leg at the electrode sites, which took approximately one month to heal. Patient has not been wearing the walkaide since the sores developed. I have not seen the patient since the sores developed. We are currently trying to schedule for follow up.

Dates of use: 2008.
Diagnosis or reason for use: drop foot, traumatic brain injury.
Event abated after use stopped or dose reduced: yes.

The walkaide was delivered to the patient in 2008. I do not know when the device was discontinued, however, the father stated in his e-mail that the patient stopped using the device about one month prior to sending the 08/27/2008 e-mail notifying me that the patient had developed sores.”

Now below this article has more info, if interested, one should go to the link above and read.
If ever one questions the “authenticity” of a device and its uses then look it up in the FDA website and that should say or tell why it is not available in the UK or other places. After all, that info is open to public view. It also states both who and where else the product has accreditation.

Thanks, I take the idea of being called a "master of cut and paste" as a compliment because it means that I know where and how to find TRUTHFULL, credible information.

I am sure that 2 individuals will namely post something of absolute irrelevance to the topic/subject matter, but direct it towards me/my persona, but continue to read with carefull discernment. If the FDA isn't considered credible it only proves their ideas to be completely unsupported opinions, ideas, and ASSumptions.

Edited by McCann, 15 August 2009 - 04:41 AM.

[greybeard]

McCann, on Aug 14 2009, 10:45 PM, said:

Thanks, I take the idea of being called a "master of cut and paste" as a compliment because it means that I know where and how to find TRUTHFULL, credible information.

Thanks, I take the idea of being called a "master of cut and paste" as a compliment because it means that I know where and how to find TRUTHFULL, ANYTHING THAT SUPPORTS MY ARGUMENT, credible information.

[Slowlegs]

McCann, on Aug 14 2009, 10:45 PM, said:

...

Event Description
This patient uses the walkaide device from innovative neurotronics which is a device that uses skin surface electrodes to treat drop foot. Patient's father e-mailed on 08/27/2008 stating that the patient had developed sores on her leg at the electrode sites, which took approximately one month to heal. Patient has not been wearing the walkaide since the sores developed. I have not seen the patient since the sores developed. We are currently trying to schedule for follow up.

Dates of use: 2008.
Diagnosis or reason for use: drop foot, traumatic brain injury.
Event abated after use stopped or dose reduced: yes.

The walkaide was delivered to the patient in 2008. I do not know when the device was discontinued, however, the father stated in his e-mail that the patient stopped using the device about one month prior to sending the 08/27/2008 e-mail notifying me that the patient had developed sores.”

Now below this article has more info, if interested, one should go to the link above and read.
If ever one questions the “authenticity” of a device and its uses then look it up in the FDA website and that should say or tell why it is not available in the UK or other places. After all, that info is open to public view. It also states both who and where else the product has accreditation.

Thanks, I take the idea of being called a "master of cut and paste" as a compliment because it means that I know where and how to find TRUTHFULL, credible information.

The sores are mentioned on their website and as you so kindly cut and paste for us, healed up once the machine used was discontinued. We don't know from that whether or not the patient continued use because no follow up visit was recorded. Nice try but no cigar this time unfortunately. Please post a link to the company who manufactures and sells your preferred options so we can also find the "truth" about your favourite device and their sales methods so we can search out our own version of the "truth" McCann.

[chickadee]

Aaaaaanyways... does anyone know if insurance (etc) is covering this in the USA? I know that my particular insurance company is full of crap (arguing for 6 months for an AFO is not my idea of fun fun fun), but maybe it's covered elsewhere? I can't afford $5k this year (it's been an expensive one for me), but it might be something worth saving up for. A device (or similar device) like this might help me out a bit.

[Slowlegs]

chickadee, on Aug 15 2009, 06:02 AM, said:

Aaaaaanyways... does anyone know if insurance (etc) is covering this in the USA? I know that my particular insurance company is full of crap (arguing for 6 months for an AFO is not my idea of fun fun fun), but maybe it's covered elsewhere? I can't afford $5k this year (it's been an expensive one for me), but it might be something worth saving up for. A device (or similar device) like this might help me out a bit.

Hi, I would imagine if it took six months to get a simple orthotic then they would be even less inclined to pay out for a walk aide. I looked on their site (I don't offer to be an expert on this as I have only just heard of it myself) and they have a contact on a reimbursements page. They may know if it is generally paid for by insurance companies or not. I live in a country where we don't have to purchase private medical insurance so sorry that is all the help I can offer. They also seem to have a free DVD which may answer some of your questions. I have my eye on a nice convertible at the moment so that will be my priority at the moment but who knows, they may eventually come down in price. There is also some FAQ info on there which may help also.

[qbounce]

It looks promising, but still new, technologically speaking. In light of McCann's FDA info, I took it upon myself to look up the Walkaide website. They sell their device with NO WARRENTY. It's an "AS IS" sale, and anything that goes wrong with the merchandise must be covered by the buyer.

It appears that things do work, but not for very long. I'm guessing they need to build a few more prototypes before getting it right for mass production. Just read the bottom of the main page in BOLD TYPE.

[StillFingers]

McCann, how many folks with SCI do you think understand the basics of muscle groups, the connection between nerve damage and atrophy, the necessity for continued ROM throughout life?

Do you not think anyone here went thru rehab, continues to be inquisitive, and that some of us have actually read and digested the information that can be found on the many pages that can be accessed via this site's home page. You might give it a look see, instead of duplicating material and wasting this sites's bandwidth.

It's not necessarily your entire posts, their content and possible benefits that people take issue with. It's your apparent lack of research that is available on this site, your duplication of information and your arrogance to think we have not done our homework.

Peer Support...what is it that you don't get about those two words

I understand that you are new to this SCI dance/life and that you want to share, but do you think you could include a bit of you in your posts, your personal feelings, struggles, triumphs, give us some context through which we can better understand your excitement, progress, reasons for sharing...let us get to know you a bit, trying to sell us doesn't help.

And lastly, this is peer support not kindergarten, I don't need a sales pitch and I sure as hell don''t need a sermon.

Be well,

Jerry

PS. Apologies to all for thread-jacking, the device in question does look very cool, given my quadieness, if it could work to give me better arm, wrist and finger movement, sign me up ASAP meanwhile I'll continue refining my quadjitzu skills

Edited by StillFingers, 17 August 2009 - 02:26 AM.

[McCann]

[quote name='StillFingers' date='Aug 16 2009, 10:15 PM' post='124693']
McCann, how many folks with SCI do you think understand the basics of muscle groups, the connection between nerve damage and atrophy, the necessity for continued ROM throughout life?

Do you not think anyone here went thru rehab, continues to be inquisitive, and that some of us have actually read and digested the information that can be found on the many pages that can be accessed via this site's home page. You might give it a look see, instead of duplicating material and wasting this sites's bandwidth.

It's not necessarily your entire posts, their content and possible benefits that people take issue with. It's your apparent lack of research that is available on this site, your duplication of information and your arrogance to think we have not done our homework.

Peer Support...what is it that you don't get about those two words

I understand that you are new to this SCI dance/life and that you want to share, but do you think you could include a bit of you in your posts, your personal feelings, struggles, triumphs, give us some context through which we can better understand your excitement, progress, reasons for sharing...let us get to know you a bit, trying to sell us doesn't help.

And lastly, this is peer support not kindergarten, I don't need a sales pitch and I sure as hell don''t need a sermon.

Be well,

Jerry

PS. Apologies to all for thread-jacking, the device in question does look very cool, given my quadieness, if it could work to give me better arm, wrist and finger movement, sign me up ASAP meanwhile I'll continue refining my quadjitzu skills
[/quot

Dear Stillfingers (Jerry
I noticed your comments are for me again which I say you are welcomed to write me individually or wait for more "personal" info that you are so "intent/curious" on getting.

You accuse me of duplicating info, etc. My posts are neutral, logical, informative and experienced based. When my personal opinion is given, I tend to state so and support as to why. I only attempt to offer/give peer support by giving credible and appropriate informative writings, be it cut and paste or personal writings. The decision remains to the reader what they do with my or any posts read.

Feel free to read the info I posted but kindly save your slandering/bickering (for that is truly childlike when off topic but directed towards my persona) towards/at me for PM's, so as to not waste our peer's time and energy with your duplicated slanders/ideas of me. It was read the first time so no need to repeat after my every informative post. You speak and push for a device you have not seen or know anyone that used it, firsthand. I simply offer credible information, but it is still up to the reader's decision.

Back to the topic at hand...

My earlier posts should illustrate the quality systems violations and the warning letter (time sensitive documents) regarding corrective actions and such. The decision is always ultimately, up to the individual. Good point/fact about there being "no warranty." Add all the pieces together to make your own opinion.

Edited by McCann, 17 August 2009 - 06:05 AM.

[Slowlegs]

qbounce, on Aug 17 2009, 01:12 AM, said:

It looks promising, but still new, technologically speaking. In light of McCann's FDA info, I took it upon myself to look up the Walkaide website. They sell their device with NO WARRENTY. It's an "AS IS" sale, and anything that goes wrong with the merchandise must be covered by the buyer.

It appears that things do work, but not for very long. I'm guessing they need to build a few more prototypes before getting it right for mass production. Just read the bottom of the main page in BOLD TYPE.

Wow, that was a concern to me but when I checked it out the warranty disclaimer seems to mention the site material, not the walkaide itself. I am usually pretty good deciphering legal speak so if anyone else wants to check it out, please read it at http://www.walkaide.com/legal.html .Don't they say you've got to eat a lot of lemons to find an orange or something like that? That would certainly put me off for sure if it were about the product itself but to me it doesn't look like it is. I may be wrong which is why I have posted the link so others can perhaps take a look and give their opinion on it. Personally I would love to see a device similar to this to deal with plantar strength (pushing down) because I suffer this on my opposite foot. That way jogging (one other on my recovery wish list) may just be possible.

[Jax]

Slowlegs, on Aug 12 2009, 02:24 AM, said:

Shout out please those who wouldn't be walking again if it were humanly possible for them to.

Me. I'm too freaking lazy now to walk. That and the girls like sitting in my lap. Like I've said before, I'd settle for being able to feel my d!ck.

[StillFingers]

Fair enough McCann...personal comments finished, good luck, be well. Jerry

Edited by StillFingers, 17 August 2009 - 04:01 PM.

[qbounce]

Slowlegs, on Aug 17 2009, 12:19 AM, said:

qbounce, on Aug 17 2009, 01:12 AM, said:

It looks promising, but still new, technologically speaking. In light of McCann's FDA info, I took it upon myself to look up the Walkaide website. They sell their device with NO WARRENTY. It's an "AS IS" sale, and anything that goes wrong with the merchandise must be covered by the buyer.

It appears that things do work, but not for very long. I'm guessing they need to build a few more prototypes before getting it right for mass production. Just read the bottom of the main page in BOLD TYPE.

Wow, that was a concern to me but when I checked it out the warranty disclaimer seems to mention the site material, not the walkaide itself. I am usually pretty good deciphering legal speak so if anyone else wants to check it out, please read it at http://www.walkaide.com/legal.html .Don't they say you've got to eat a lot of lemons to find an orange or something like that? That would certainly put me off for sure if it were about the product itself but to me it doesn't look like it is. I may be wrong which is why I have posted the link so others can perhaps take a look and give their opinion on it. Personally I would love to see a device similar to this to deal with plantar strength (pushing down) because I suffer this on my opposite foot. That way jogging (one other on my recovery wish list) may just be possible.

Snap!!! Slowleggs,
I'd like to think that I know of what I speak, but you are ABSOLUTELY right about the companies disclaimer for THIRD PARTY WARRANTIES. I absolutely misread that one. Sorry about that!!

Hey Jerry,
Most of us have had it with the Salesman's schtick, but he'll probably bury himself, eventually.

Edited by qbounce, 17 August 2009 - 07:13 PM.

[Slowlegs]

Jax, on Aug 17 2009, 08:10 AM, said:

Slowlegs, on Aug 12 2009, 02:24 AM, said:

Shout out please those who wouldn't be walking again if it were humanly possible for them to.

Me. I'm too freaking lazy now to walk. That and the girls like sitting in my lap. Like I've said before, I'd settle for being able to feel my d!ck.

Amen to that brother, wishlist number 1 for me too. LOL

[McCann]

As per needed and your request Jerry B.

Actually if the link is properly followed you will get to the spot mentioned. If you do not get there directly the FDA may have moved it.

I am not putting down the product simply stating where and how people should and can find credible information.

I have no personal problems with the company or product. What I state is my supported opinion by documents, research, experiences and perspectives of mine and others("users") and only want people to know where to see and/or find information. Problem is the deadline dates given for corrective actions to take place; some meet them while others don't/fail.

Try this link to go view the FDA's warning letter and quality system violations (view the date also):

http://www.fda.gov/I.../ucm1048075.htm

Also, regarding what Qbounce stated about third party references is correct but please remember to read all fine print. It also states regarding the use of and the results of the walkaide prior to speaking of the third parties. Follow the link Qbounce posted and read it carefully. Thanks for the find/post. And as for me "burying myself" as your statement my response is,

I'm not afraid of dieing but more so of not trying!

[Slowlegs]

Actually McCann, if you read the material again the "materials" mentioned are about the website and its' contents, not the materials available from the website. Materials being of course being the intellectual property, information available on the website. Maintenance and repair being the maintenance and repair required to fix any server, computer or other electronic componently damaged or altered as a result of using the website (howsoever caused), not the walk aide. After years of reading memorandi of lease, mortgage documents and writing clauses for my company to preclude us from liability I am pretty sure I am right. I have included some of the info from the site.

PLEASE READ THESE LEGAL POLICIES CAREFULLY.
By using this site, you agree to these Terms and Conditions of Use, as well as the Privacy Policies contained therein (collectively referred to as the "Terms of Use"). IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO THESE TERMS OF USE, YOU MAY NOT USE THIS SITE.

RESTRICTIONS ON USE OF MATERIALS
No materials from any website owned, operated, licensed or controlled by Innovative Neurotronics (or any of its related, affiliated companies, including, without limitation, ininc.us, innovativeneurotronics.com, and walkaide.com) (the " Innovative Neurotronics Material")

Note to apparelyzed users: As far as I can tell, "No materials from", not "No materials from or available through or from"

LIMITATIONS OF LIABILITY
Under no circumstances, including, but not limited to, negligence, shall Innovative Neurotronics or any of its related, affiliated companies be liable for any direct, indirect, incidental, special, consequential or punitive damages that result from the use of, or the inability to use the Innovative Neurotronics Material. You specifically acknowledge and agree that Innovative Neurotronics is not liable for any defamatory, offensive or illegal conduct of any user. If you are dissatisfied with any of the Innovative Neurotronics Material, or with any of Innovative Neurotronics’ terms and conditions, your sole and exclusive remedy is to discontinue using
this site.
DISCLAIMER
INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS MAKES NO WARRANTIES OR REPRESENTATIONS AS TO THE ACCURACY OF THE CONTENT ON THIS SITE AND INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS ASSUMES NO LIABILITY OR RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY ERRORS OR OMISSIONS IN THE CONTENT ON THE SITE.

Note to apparelyzed users: The way I read it, materials contained in this website for the purpose of this document will be called "the innovative neurotronics material"[/i] In other words, any time you see the words "the Innovative Neurotronics Material" they seem to me to refer to the contents of this website, not the walk aide.

THE INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS MATERIAL IS PROVIDED "AS IS" AND WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. FURTHER, INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE FUNCTIONS CONTAINED IN THE INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS MATERIALS WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR-FREE, THAT DEFECTS WILL BE CORRECTED, OR THAT THIS SITE OR THE SERVER THAT MAKES IT AVAILABLE ARE FREE OF VIRUSES, WORMS, TROJAN HORSES, OR OTHER HARMFUL COMPONENTS. INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS DOES NOT WARRANT OR MAKE ANY REPRESENTATIONS REGARDING THE USE OF, OR THE RESULTS OF THE USE OF, THE [i]INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS MATERIALS ON THIS SITE IN TERMS OF THEIR CORRECTNESS, ACCURACY, TIMELINESS, RELIABILITY OR OTHERWISE. YOU (AND NOT INNOVATIVE NEUROTRONICS) ASSUME THE ENTIRE COST OF ALL NECESSARY MAINTENANCE, REPAIR OR CORRECTION



Sorry to everyone who finds this boring but in my opinion it is the difference between there being no warranty on materials on this website as opposed to no warranty on items on the physical product this website refers to. One indicates a company covering its butt with regard to viruses and accuracy of information (remember all the technical info you probably didn't read when signing up to Facebook or MSN?) and the other referring of course to there being no warranty on physical objects (ie the walkaide) available through this website. There is a fundamental difference between the two I believe and I believe most people who are reading this thread with a genuine interest in finding out about the walkaide should be concerned with warranties on the walkaide (which it does seem have either been having some issues with faults with their product or problems documenting quality control and resolution of faults in their products). This doesn't necessarily mean the Walk aide does or doesn't work or has quality or safety issues. Who knows though, someone may still spontaneously combust while filling their car at the gas station? New products almost undoubtedly have some safety or teething issues.

For the others who missed it, the full other post McCann started which sort of relates to the walk aide is at http://www.apparelyz...h...561&hl=Ptii

Edited by Slowlegs, 19 August 2009 - 06:12 PM.

[gaza.mccann]

Evening All,

Pretty new to all this forum business.

July 2007 - RTA - C4-C6 Incomplete Brown Sequard Loss of function on my left side and loss of sensation on my right side from my chest down.

I thought I'd share my views on the devices mentioned in this thread.

Following my accident I spent several months on bed rest with very little signs of movement. Scans suggested I had a slight lesion on the spinal cord, however as the swelling began to diminish I began to regain suttle movements.

February 2008 I was out of hospital on two elbow crutches Apart from the obviious bowel and bladder complications etc. my main difficulty has been drop foot on my left side.

I was provided with odstock's ODFS which consists of two pads, a foot switch, and the machine itself.
I found this equipment's good result's were very intermittent, especially with the placement of the PAD's resulting in different results everyday - trying to get them positioned correctly every morning became near on impossible (even when drawing around the pads the evening before). Over time I have lost faith in this solution and rarely use it when I'm walking.

Over the past months, much like yourselves have seen the walkaide and bioness advertised. Keen to explore these new opportunities.

I first trialed the Walkaide at the begin of september. Much to my dissapointment, although the concept being fantastic, I felt it lacked in many areas.

-Inability to pause the device when sitting down or bending down
-Tiltometer often triggered for no reason or before lifting the heel. (this could be solved using the foot switch however removes the idea of wireless use)
-With very little hand function on my left I found it near on impossible putting this on with one hand, without moving the placement as i pulled the velcro strap tight.

Very close to being great and eliminating many of the flaws with existing equipment but yet so far.

Rather than giving up, i am currently trialing the bioness L300.

My 2nd day with the device - So far So good

All the flaws of the others are non existent and I'm gutted that in a weeks time I'm going to have to hand it back.

It's training facility has left me with a very tired and achey leg LOL probably been a little over enthusiastic with the remote
I'm thinking and hoping this is a good sign that my muscle is just not used to working as hard as it has been.
I'm fully aware I'm very lucky this bit of kit is wiorking for myself and everybody's case is different but I would recommend thus far.

I was just wondering if anybody else, has had similar experiences? And if anyone has managed to secure funding through the NHS here in the UK?

Kind Regards
Gary