[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

I am a C4/5 married tetra, who has decided to market these after I had to search the net and find a decent reliable emptier. I do not need to ask carers or the wife to empty my bag and i have realised after 16 years in a chair how much freedom i actually have being able to empty my own bag. They will change your life.
www.legbagemptier.co.uk
Check the video out on the front page of my site
paul

[Scribbler]

paul@legbagemptier.co.uk, on Aug 26 2009, 02:38 PM, said:

I am a C4/5 married tetra, who has decided to market these after I had to search the net and find a decent reliable emptier. I do not need to ask carers or the wife to empty my bag and i have realised after 16 years in a chair how much freedom i actually have being able to empty my own bag. They will change your life.
www.legbagemptier.co.uk
Check the video out on the front page of my site
paul

A good idea if you're out in the country for the day on your own but as I was injured over 50 years ago when there weren't disabled loos. I have given up peeing in drain holes, behind bushes, corners of back alleys in London, and certainly not in my back garden. (I realise that was for demonstration purposes; well I hope it was)

You might be paranoid about drinking but I'm paranoid about having a tube show below my trousers. I hate seeing someone with the tap of their leg bag showing.
Its just my personal opinion, but what's the point of having a carer, if they cant empty your leg bag in a sanitary and hygienic area?

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

Scribbler, your missing the point, you dont need care hence saving cash but if you want a carer with you most of the time then maybe this aint for you ! and if you see my tube when i have my jeans down then there is a few issues which arent discussed on here that you need to address.

[Scribbler]

paul@legbagemptier.co.uk, on Aug 26 2009, 03:36 PM, said:

Scribbler, your missing the point, you dont need care hence saving cash but if you want a carer with you most of the time then maybe this aint for you ! and if you see my tube when i have my jeans down then there is a few issues which arent discussed on here that you need to address.

The point is, you're marketing something so want to advertise it to your advantage. I see nothing wrong in the actual product or even the concept; I actually started my post by saying its a good idea.

I do however see a problem with hygiene and mostly legal issues, re; urinating in a public place. I'm not suggesting that you'll empty your leg bag in a shop doorway, but we all know the law is an ass.

I'm probably more independent than most 64/5's my age and injured the length of time I have; Its just a matter of choice.
I'd prefer to use a disabled loo when I'm out with my carer, plus we are all different, so I have my leg bag emptied at set times of the day.
Having a self emptying leg bag wouldn't save me cash; my circumstances are different to yours so I need a live in carer.

20 years ago when I was younger, fitter and went off in the country on my own, it would have been handy, but if I need someone to boil a kettle and make me a coffee, then that same person can empty my leg bag.

I'm sure many members will like your product, so good luck.

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

I am hoping to sell lots of things that help people in my situation, that includes touch button kettles so you can make your own coffee. But as you explained you have done half a century so you have done well. Thanks for your comments and this venture is new and i am just trying to spread the word!

[CR_L1]

Hi,
Forgetting the earlier posts & how some people will feel about using such a device I think (in principle) the idea is good.
But having said that why such a high price for a device which is basically a solenoid valve & battery pack?

The one thing that gets my goat is how anything to do with disabled carries an over inflated price tag & as a disabled person yourself should know what I’m saying, PLEASE explain?

[greybeard]

I hadn't bothered with the price because the product is of no interest to me, CR. Your post prompted me to look. WoW!!!!!! These things look hideously overpriced for what they are.

All I can say to the OP is Good Luck, mate.

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

I fully agree, and if i could sell them for any less i would. I was bought one after the local council i was on work placement refused to empty my bag due to health and safety. I had to import one from abroad and fortunately the firm said they would pay for it. I have already cancelled the postage cost and took it out of my supposedly profit margin. If i can get them for any less i will accordingly adjust the price. Thanks for your positive comments.

[CR_L1]

Hi,
Do yourself a favour & start making them yourself, why import from another company when you can make this device yourself for as little as £100 if not less, the valves being used are very cheap to buy & potting boxes or enclosures & switchgear is a matter of a few pounds.

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

i wish!

[ClaraTaylor]

Do you have any large photographs of the systems - I struggled to identify the valves and set up you are using.

[Lucydog]

For £s read $s. Why is everything so expensive in this country?

[Tinbasher]

paul@legbagemptier.co.uk, on Aug 26 2009, 05:55 PM, said:

I was bought one after the local council i was on work placement refused to empty my bag due to health and safety.

Now don't get me wrong its an interesting product that has its place but at work isn't one of them. Why on earth did you accept a "health and safety" assessment that didn't emphasise your RIGHT to access a proper toilet, with assistance and hygene. Instead your pissing down a drain somewhere at work! I am sure my collegues would have something to say if I or anyone else didn't use the toilet and peed down the drain. In fact the cleaning staff would quite rightly have a health and safety issue of their own!

I don't think it's a replacement for proper assistance and actually puts you in quite a demeaning position.

Tin

[Ironside]

This is just such a typical response from a paraplegic. You're able to do things for your self, tetraplegics like us are completely stuffed without these sorts of gadgets. I have got one of these gadgets that empties my bag, it's not the same make as Paul is selling but it is the same principle. I think this cost me around £200 , worth every single penny. It means I can live on my own, I don't need someone to come and empty my bag every half an hour. And as for health and safety, if I need to empty my bag in the high street, I will find a drain and empty it, God help anyone ever tries to stop me. Having said that, I always do my best to do it away from the general public.

Quote

Do yourself a favour & start making them yourself

Oh Please , these kind of stupid statements he doesn't need. For Christ sake, we are tetraplegic, we can't move our fingers. If you need to pay someone to do it for you, you might as well not bother.

Quote

The one thing that gets my goat is how anything to do with disabled carries an over inflated price tag & as a disabled person yourself should know what I’m saying, PLEASE explain?

Use your loaf mate? Why is everything for disabled people expensive? Because it's a niche market and to make any money, you've got to charge a lot. I don't suppose you would complain about spending 600 quid on a computer. A computer won't give me independence, my legbagemptier does.

[Tinbasher]

Thats such a typical Tetra reply! (I couldn't find a tongue in cheek emoticon)

Read what I said a few times. I am not getting at the OP I was making the point that telling a disabled employee to piss down the drain at work is nothing short of discrimination. This is the UK for gods sake not some undeveloped backwater. My comment was about the employer not the product.

What he or you do in private is your own business but frankly I dont want to be wheeling though your little puddles in the street or anywhere else.

I get so fed up with the hierarchical BS that surfaces here too often. I doesn't matter what level or completeness our injuries are they are probably the the most devastating life altering things that have happened to each of us.

Our physical abilities might be different but we are equally affected by employers who use H & S to avoid their legal duty to help disabled employees.

[CR_L1]

Hi Ironside,

I understand you are trying to fight your mates corner for him, (link from his site to you suggest a friendship) but the arguments you put forward don’t stand.
Before you start quoting how the disabled market is a niche market you should do some market research.
I know of many people that have gained independence simply by using a PC.(That was a stupid statement on your part)

“To Quote”
Oh Please , these kind of stupid statements he doesn't need. For Christ sake, we are tetraplegic, we can't move our fingers. If you need to pay someone to do it for you, you might as well not bother.
“Quote”

If this device is being purchased from another company & then being sold on, is that not still paying someone to make it for you?

You paid around £200 for your device, the set your mate Paul is selling could be sold for that sort of price with a very good profit.

P.S.
Anybody looking for a legbagemptier should search the net before spending £500 because Ironside has already stated you can get a similar device for £200.

[turbotet]

I am the same level as Paul and I do not need anyone to empty my bag as i can do it myself, it is easy. I have been injured 17+ years so maybe my generation were a bit more determined to do as much as we could for ourselves. As for the price tag........

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

turbotet, on Aug 27 2009, 11:06 AM, said:

I am the same level as Paul and I do not need anyone to empty my bag as i can do it myself, it is easy. I have been injured 17+ years so maybe my generation were a bit more determined to do as much as we could for ourselves. As for the price tag........

what an idiot! how can you be the same level when you have both wrist extensions and when you say about being more determined ask at the OT and they will tell you that your injury aint the same as mine. Its good looking at 4 walls aint it.
I cant believe the negative reviews on this.

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

CR_L1, on Aug 27 2009, 10:38 AM, said:

Hi Ironside,

I understand you are trying to fight your mates corner for him, (link from his site to you suggest a friendship) but the arguments you put forward don’t stand.
Before you start quoting how the disabled market is a niche market you should do some market research.
I know of many people that have gained independence simply by using a PC.(That was a stupid statement on your part)

“To Quote”
Oh Please , these kind of stupid statements he doesn't need. For Christ sake, we are tetraplegic, we can't move our fingers. If you need to pay someone to do it for you, you might as well not bother.
“Quote”

If this device is being purchased from another company & then being sold on, is that not still paying someone to make it for you?

You paid around £200 for your device, the set your mate Paul is selling could be sold for that sort of price with a very good profit.

P.S.
Anybody looking for a legbagemptier should search the net before spending £500 because Ironside has already stated you can get a similar device for £200.

Hi Cr
I have just been to work, so i could not reply but yes Ironside is someone who I know but I would not ask him to fight my corner. I did this for something to make available to people who did not want to buy from abroad, personally if your happy with being dependant on care and happy at monitioring what you drink and when you drink then just forget the site and topic.
Maybe we should all sit in our house and wait for the end!

This post has been edited by paul@legbagemptier.co.uk: 27 August 2009 - 04:02 PM

[Ironside]

turbotet, on Aug 27 2009, 11:06 AM, said:

I am the same level as Paul and I do not need anyone to empty my bag as i can do it myself, it is easy. I have been injured 17+ years so maybe my generation were a bit more determined to do as much as we could for ourselves. As for the price tag........

I'd love to see you empty your bag with a fishing rod strapped to your arm. I've been injured 23 years & I have plenty of determination. Just because I choose not to empty my bag by myself, doesn't make me any less determined than you.

Quote

know of many people that have gained independence simply by using a PC.(That was a stupid statement on your part)

When I was talking about independence, I meant being able to spend the whole day on your without any outside help. I can't see how a computer can do this for you, I should know, I spend the whole day on mine and it's never offered to put the kettle on for me. Don't get me wrong I'd rather cut my left arm off rather than give up my computer, but there is any so much it can do.

Sometimes using a drain is the only way you can empty your bag. And quite frankly, it's a damn site lot easier than having to lift a leg over a toilet, and then attempt to flush it.

At the end of the day, this is a great product which many of you will not appreciate because you don't need one. Criticizing for whatever reason was unnecessary and uncalled for.

[ClaraTaylor]

paul@legbagemptier.co.uk, on Aug 27 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

I cant believe the negative reviews on this.

Sir no matter what business you are in you will receive criticism. Your rudeness to "potential" customers (even if they do not buy the goods themselves they may mention it to a friend who might be interested) shows a complete lack of salesmanship and reflects badly not only on your business but on you as well.
Stop taking this personally and accept it that people have their own opinions on things - they don't need you trying to force your own attitude on them or belittle their own disabilities. A cripple is a cripple - that's all that matters.

It feels to me that you came to this website - not for the reasons many people came here for (i.e. information, support, friendship...) but to make money. The people on this forum are very protective of other members, it is a reassuring place around here when you feel comfortable. The cold wall you are facing - well you'll just have to deal with it. Either stick around and join in on some non-contriversal posts, make friends, have a laugh... or make your sales pitch and leave.

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

Can all C4/5 Complete Tetra's who can empty there own bag unaided please reply to this. for someone who cannot wet shave himself he is pretty good at emptying his bag

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

ClaraTaylor, on Aug 27 2009, 05:04 PM, said:

paul@legbagemptier.co.uk, on Aug 27 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

I cant believe the negative reviews on this.

Sir no matter what business you are in you will receive criticism. Your rudeness to "potential" customers (even if they do not buy the goods themselves they may mention it to a friend who might be interested) shows a complete lack of salesmanship and reflects badly not only on your business but on you as well.
Stop taking this personally and accept it that people have their own opinions on things - they don't need you trying to force your own attitude on them or belittle their own disabilities. A cripple is a cripple - that's all that matters.

It feels to me that you came to this website - not for the reasons many people came here for (i.e. information, support, friendship...) but to make money. The people on this forum are very protective of other members, it is a reassuring place around here when you feel comfortable. The cold wall you are facing - well you'll just have to deal with it. Either stick around and join in on some non-contriversal posts, make friends, have a laugh... or make your sales pitch and leave.

no clara, i am not being rude..If you look at my response to Sailor I thanked him for his comments although they were a bit negative. I just wanted to get the site known and listen to peoples comments. Good site this aint it!

[Apparelyzed]

Amazing how such a simple post can turn into one great big barfight!

Personal insults aside, I think the product being discussed does have very useful applications, and when you are home alone, and can't empty your own leg bag, this product can be of help, afterall, it's your garden!

I think there were three main issues being discussed here, and getting mixed together.

1. Accessibility assessments for work which do not take into account personal toileting needs.

2. Costs of product being discussed.

3. Abilities of others with same complete injury (c4/5 - no wrist extensors or tendon transfers)

Constructive criticism is good, but it can sometimes get taken out of context. Try to keep the thread civil guys.

Just for interest sake, I have wrist extensors (C5/6), but it took me 2 years before I could empty my leg bag. It may be there are c4/5's out there who can do this, but they will be in a minority.

Regards

Simon.

[CR_L1]

If anyone is intrested in this type of device you should check this out as well:

http://www.jb-3.com/

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

Apparelyzed, on Aug 27 2009, 05:37 PM, said:

Amazing how such a simple post can turn into one great big barfight!

Personal insults aside, I think the product being discussed does have very useful applications, and when you are home alone, and can't empty your own leg bag, this product can be of help, afterall, it's your garden!

I think there were three main issues being discussed here, and getting mixed together.

1. Accessibility assessments for work which do not take into account personal toileting needs.

2. Costs of product being discussed.

3. Abilities of others with same complete injury (c4/5 - no wrist extensors)

Constructive criticism is good, but it can sometimes get taken out of context. Try to keep the thread civil guys.

Just for interest sake, I have wrist extensors (C5/6), but it took me 2 years before I could empty my leg bag. It may be there are c4/5's out there who can do this, but they will be in a minority.

Regards

Simon.

To everyone, I agree to the cost of this emptier and I was fortunate to have 1 bought for me, maybe if i had not been bought one i would not have warranted the cost and never of bought this piece of equipment. But now after using one for the past 8 months i would never be without one. I thought after discussing with a nurse who looked after some of the GB team in the olympics that this was an issue and some of them (cannot say who they were) could not do their bag and this was a big issue for them, that importing the emptiers was a good thing so i contacted the manufacturer who said he had a tetra agent in the USA so i asked him if i could be his UK agent which he agreed, so here i am!
I have no sales experience so Clara your comments are heard.
I have been to work for 8 hrs today I left the house at 7.45 and caught the train which the journey took 45minutes, i drank a bottle of water on my journey an got to work where i had numerous cups of tea and chilled water I emptied my bag 3 times and not having to wait for someone to do it in a certain place at a certain time was worth every penny.
These may not be for everyone, just as sitting in a powerchair is not to everyone's liking but i believe life is for living and i want to be as independent as possible and go to lots of places and not rely on people because of my disability.
Thanks anyway.

[turbotet]

paul@legbagemptier.co.uk, on Aug 27 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

turbotet, on Aug 27 2009, 11:06 AM, said:

I am the same level as Paul and I do not need anyone to empty my bag as i can do it myself, it is easy. I have been injured 17+ years so maybe my generation were a bit more determined to do as much as we could for ourselves. As for the price tag........

what an idiot! how can you be the same level when you have both wrist extensions and when you say about being more determined ask at the OT and they will tell you that your injury aint the same as mine. Its good looking at 4 walls aint it.
I cant believe the negative reviews on this.

A idiot eh...... cheers, I can empty my own bag also i can wetshave myself thanks, in fact you and me were both in the same spinal unit, Mr Sett did my tendon transplants as he did yours, I used to talk to you when you were 1st injured and stuck in bed, I even used to go to weld rd..... Idiot i may be, but an idiot who can empty my own bag mate cheers!

[paul@legbagemptier.co.uk]

turbotet, on Aug 27 2009, 10:42 PM, said:

paul@legbagemptier.co.uk, on Aug 27 2009, 04:46 PM, said:

turbotet, on Aug 27 2009, 11:06 AM, said:

I am the same level as Paul and I do not need anyone to empty my bag as i can do it myself, it is easy. I have been injured 17+ years so maybe my generation were a bit more determined to do as much as we could for ourselves. As for the price tag........

what an idiot! how can you be the same level when you have both wrist extensions and when you say about being more determined ask at the OT and they will tell you that your injury aint the same as mine. Its good looking at 4 walls aint it.
I cant believe the negative reviews on this.

A idiot eh...... cheers, I can empty my own bag also i can wetshave myself thanks, in fact you and me were both in the same spinal unit, Mr Sett did my tendon transplants as he did yours, I used to talk to you when you were 1st injured and stuck in bed, I even used to go to weld rd..... Idiot i may be, but an idiot who can empty my own bag mate cheers!

Tony, I know who you are, last time i heard you were a C5? anyway I still want to know more C4/5 complete tetras who can independently empty there bag since some C4/5 who I know can barely move there arms never mind have wrist extenders who empty there bag! MAYBE WE ARE ALL DIFFERENT AND NO INJURY IS THE SAME. Mate.

[Tinbasher]

Listen to us!

C4, C5, C6, T12, R2 Fekkin D2

Tin (Spinal cord injured human being)

[edlee]

Paul,,, I think you really need to reread Clara's post. If you truly want to succeed at sales,, you are going to have to deal with negative feedback a little more creatively. Read a few other threads and see who gets assailled.

Nobody here has said it didn't fulfill a need,,, the only doubts expressed were about the numbers with those needs. If you think you've been insulted,,,,, how should I phrase this,,,,,, tough. If anyone comes here asking for help, they get it. Same goes for asking for trouble.

Hope you do well with your enterprise.
ed