[ClaraTaylor]

The background... because you all know how much I waffle!!
I've been a proud [stubborn] walker / wobbler / tripper over / crawler along the carpet since my accident, refusing to accept help and shrugging off suggestions of getting a permanent chair for as long as possible by
a. hiding
b. putting my hands in my ears (I have big ears) and crying "laa laa laa laa laa..."
c. ignoring it
d. pretending that I don't miss what ever it was that I couldn't do because I couldn't walk across the car park to get there.

Unfortunately an inability to walk very far / well does not go well with the active life style I lead. Plus the epidural mess up has lead to an increased pain level and a decreased walking ability - my walking style is now labelled "comedy".

I went on holiday last week and spent the whole time in a "one size fits all backsides" chair. While the freedom the chair gave me (i.e. I wasn't left on benches or in the car any more while everyone else went off to explore the area) was a real eye opener and brilliant fun the chair itself was EVIL.

So I have been a grown up and stopped trying to ignore it and am now waiting for an appointment with my GP to request an assessment for a chair (the receptionist was meant to phone me back - I'm guessing at 22:56 she wont be calling tonight).

The questions
Can anyone explain what happens in the assessment? (Other than some person getting overly friendly with a tape measure) And indeed how the whole area of assessing works?

We considered that if there was a stupidly sized waiting list / delay / the doctor continues his "arse" routine / the chairs they offered weren't to our requirements that we'd go and buy a chair ourselves... but what should we be looking out for on a lightweight self propelled (for bad days only) chair? Are there any makes / models you'd recommend?

ALSO My partner is really tall (6ft 7" and still growing!) and so on the "one size fits all backsides" chair the handles were too low down for him - are they all that height or can you get ones that are higher up or should I be getting my welding kit out?

Thank you.

Much love, me.

[greybeard]

http://www.spinlife.com/en/Manual_wheelcha...uring_guide.cfm
Try that for size!

Then have a look here when you know what size ranges your are looking for.
http://tinyurl.com/lcmghv

These are all ex-display chairs. I bought one a few months back. Not a mark and about 1/3rd of full price.
They're titanium so you may have to brush up on your welding skills

[allister]

Hi Clara,
The waiting list for a NHS wheelchair services waiing list appointment is 6 - 9 weeks.
You'll see an OT who will ask why you need a chair, and whats it to be used for. )Pretty dum questions really)
He'll then offer what they class as "meets basic needs" Probably like they did for me, an Invacare Action 3.
Its heavy, uncomfortable, moves and handles with as much finess as a house brick!
If (as I know you will) decline it,they'll tell ou about the voucher scheme.
Basicly they'll give you a voucher for the value of the chair they offered, say £300.00 and in my local NHS trust,
they'll also put up half the cost of the chair you pick from their approved supplier.
However, they will not pay toward optional extra's on a chair like spinergy wheels, non standard paint finishes - upholstry-frog legs casters.

Example , the chair I'm in the process of ordering, a Topend Crossfire T6 topped the scales at £2995.00.
Nottinghamshire PHCT will cough up £300 + £1250. They won't give me half because of non standard fittings; frog legs and spinegy spox wheels. and retractable push handles.

Go along to Bromakins, and Peter will measure you if you want a GOOD chair custom build, or have alook at the "off the shelf" range with standard fit sizes.
They also carry a small range of Trade-ins , which you could easily make look new in half a day.

Al x

This post has been edited by allister: 14 September 2009 - 11:10 PM

[AndrewB]

Your in the UK get the new Quickie Helium.. Thats what i would get. it looks super cool and it only weighs 6.5 kilos.

http://www.heliummob...en_gb/index.asp

This post has been edited by AndrewB: 15 September 2009 - 02:35 AM

[Lucydog]

There are several members here from leics so they should be able to tell you exactly what to expect in your neck of the woods!
lets forget about the NHS for a minute and more on what you need. Do you really need super lightweight, ie, titanium and therefore the most expensive or something more realsitic. I have a kuschall K4 which I suppose must be the mid weight range of chairs, nice and sporty and if fine for my needs. If you are going to buy yourself once you know what you have in mind it might be better to buy 2nd hand for a while without the voucher, and then in a year or so use the voucher for what you really want.
For instance do you want a fixed frame of folder? You probably wont know until you have tried for a while. I have a folder as well which I only really use in the house becsue after I bought it I realised I couldnt open it on my own from the car!
There are quite a few places you can get ex demo chairs from and they will save you a fortune. Just shout and we can point you to a few.

[ClaraTaylor]

Lucydog, on Sep 15 2009, 10:59 AM, said:

There are several members here from leics so they should be able to tell you exactly what to expect in your neck of the woods!
lets forget about the NHS for a minute and more on what you need. Do you really need super lightweight, ie, titanium and therefore the most expensive or something more realsitic.

I think the extreme super light isn't really needed - my upper body strength is quite strong so as long as it wasn't too heavy to push around getting it in and out of the car wouldn't be a problem although because it's a "bad day only" [i.e. when I am at my weakest and most pathetic] kind of thing there is some concern about weight.

Quote

I have a kuschall K4 which I suppose must be the mid weight range of chairs, nice and sporty and if fine for my needs. If you are going to buy yourself once you know what you have in mind it might be better to buy 2nd hand for a while without the voucher, and then in a year or so use the voucher for what you really want.

We thought about this - our main concern isn't about getting a chair through the NHS since there seem to be so many places you can just go and buy one, we just needed to know how to work out what fits. Greybeard has sent a handy link which I will be demanding assistance with tonight to measure ourselves and see what we can find (for instance on ebay or where ever else the internet takes us!)

Quote

For instance do you want a fixed frame of folder? You probably wont know until you have tried for a while. I have a folder as well which I only really use in the house becsue after I bought it I realised I couldnt open it on my own from the car!
There are quite a few places you can get ex demo chairs from and they will save you a fortune. Just shout and we can point you to a few.

We're rather assumed folding - because of course the top right of me works and I managed fine with the one last week. Are there any advantages to a fixed frame?

Shout!

[greybeard]

ClaraTaylor, on Sep 15 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

Are there any advantages to a fixed frame?

Shout!

The main one for me was to be able to attach one of Patd's FreeWheel gizmos.
See here: http://gofreewheel.blogspot.com/
I tried converting a folding chair to take it but there was just too much flex to lift the casters. I still have a folder, but rarely use it.

Being able to remove the wheels and fold down the seat back, means that the rigid takes up no more space than the folder, and being in several bits - is lighter to man-handle.

This post has been edited by greybeard: 15 September 2009 - 01:00 PM

[Jax]

allister, on Sep 14 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

Hi Clara,
The waiting list for a NHS wheelchair services waiing list appointment is 6 - 9 weeks.
You'll see an OT who will ask why you need a chair, and whats it to be used for. )Pretty dum questions really)
He'll then offer what they class as "meets basic needs" Probably like they did for me, an Invacare Action 3.
Its heavy, uncomfortable, moves and handles with as much finess as a house brick!
If (as I know you will) decline it,they'll tell ou about the voucher scheme.
Basicly they'll give you a voucher for the value of the chair they offered, say £300.00 and in my local NHS trust,
they'll also put up half the cost of the chair you pick from their approved supplier.
However, they will not pay toward optional extra's on a chair like spinergy wheels, non standard paint finishes - upholstry-frog legs casters.

Example , the chair I'm in the process of ordering, a Topend Crossfire T6 topped the scales at £2995.00.
Nottinghamshire PHCT will cough up £300 + £1250. They won't give me half because of non standard fittings; frog legs and spinegy spox wheels. and retractable push handles.

Go along to Bromakins, and Peter will measure you if you want a GOOD chair custom build, or have alook at the "off the shelf" range with standard fit sizes.
They also carry a small range of Trade-ins , which you could easily make look new in half a day.

Al x

This "meets basic needs" crap is something that nobody who will use a chair 24-7 should ever consider. It's ludicrous. Those things are detrimental to your health (as if the SCI wasn't bad enough). Simply put, the more weight and bulk you have to push all day, the worse it is for your joints. The "basic needs" chairs are generally much heavier, and much more difficult to handle than a good chair. Also, NHS (UK), and the insurance companies here, fail to consider is that "meets basic needs" chairs do not meet basic needs of those who will use them 24-7. The "meets basic needs" chairs are not designed to be used and pushed 24-7 by the user. They are designed to be pushed and loaded by a caregiver most of the time. The differences in design are caused by differences in intended uses. Lighter chairs were developed for those of us who will use (propel and load/unload) them all the time. The heavier ones (now that we can make lighter ones) are left as cheap options for those who will have somebody pushing them. I think if you take a ride in one of the "meets basic needs" chairs for about 10 minutes, and then get into a chair meant for daily independent use, you will see and feel the difference for yourself quickly. Another piece of advice, NEVER skimp on your cushion. Get what you need. Don't let anyone talk you into anything short of the best for you. Avoiding pressure sores is worth it. As for height of the user, there are tons of options. Many of the chairs have somewhat adjustable backrest heights as well. I use a pretty short back, as I'm not in the chair except for going from couch to office chair, office chair to pickup, etc. If somebody spends more time in the wheelchair (using it as the primary chair for everything) then a higher setting back will usually be preferred. Of course, at 6'7", any backrest would likely be taller than mine...I'm only 5'9". lol


There's a 6-9 week wait to get a chair fitted and ordered?? And people wonder why I'm against the fed govt running healthcare. My state rehab agency, on the other hand, paid the whole price of my $5,800 (3,538 British pounds) QuickieGTi after only a 3 day wait to fit and order (once I let my agency counselor know I needed one). The thing is, the SPOX and the froglegs can be justified here (when the state is paying...not with medicare, and not with insurance either), especially for help with back pain and shoulder problems (shock absorption and light weight). "Non-standard" fitting is what having chairs like the Crossfire and the GTi is all about (In the US, standard sized are in 2-inch increments. 14inch, 16, 18, etc. Quickies, etc come in odd inch measurements that are considered "non-standard."). How about those "non-standard" upholsteries? Does that mean that if you need a J3 type of back, you have to buy it on your own? It's ridiculous to say "We're going to pay for the absolute basics, and if you need something different (for back support, back pain relief, spasm prevention, or just overall joint wear prevention), you're on your own." So can cushions not be justified for payment there, either? If one needs a Roho cushion, would it not be paid for by the healthcare system? And if froglegs aren't even paid for, how can you get custom-built chairs paid for? I'm probably missing something (or lots of somethings) here, so if you wouldn't mind filling me in, I'd appreciate it. Always happy to learn.

[ClaraTaylor]

Thanks for that information.

Just to give you all a giggle - my pain management doctor is not talking to her secretary and so the receptionist called me to cancel three appointments this week and she knew I was struggling to travel and said it was unfair for me to sit there when the doctor "did not show up for work", the rheumatologist will be sending me an appointment "soon" so my time was wasted talking to the uber efficient receptionist trying to speed things up, my GP [i.e. last resort but hey] thinks ANYONE (yes I asked if this included quads!) using mobility aids are weak willed as too many people become dependent on sticks and chairs rather than fighting to use their bodies and... is being replaced as soon as is possible!

I will be getting very familiar with ebay in the near future as I start selling off the stuff I no longer use (I guess my old bicycle might be a good start?!) to raise the funds ourselves.

[jules]

I used my voucher against non-standard chair parts, the PCT weren't worried about what the voucher went towards. There was a slight difference to make up but I ended up with a very light Titanium chair that was custom built and bespoke. As far as the PCT were concerned the voucher just went against the total cost of the chair. I also only had to wait 2 weeks to get in to see an OT for my voucher assessment and that was only because I had to get an appointment outside of work time. As far as cushions and backs are concerned even with the voucher scheme they are outside of it and are still provided free if you need them.

I know things vary from PCT to PCT but that is my experience with Gloucestershire PCT.

Hope this helps

Jules

[greybeard]

ClaraTaylor, on Sep 18 2009, 07:53 AM, said:

Thanks for that information.

Just to give you all a giggle - my pain management doctor is not talking to her secretary and so the receptionist called me to cancel three appointments this week and she knew I was struggling to travel and said it was unfair for me to sit there when the doctor "did not show up for work", the rheumatologist will be sending me an appointment "soon" so my time was wasted talking to the uber efficient receptionist trying to speed things up, my GP [i.e. last resort but hey] thinks ANYONE (yes I asked if this included quads!) using mobility aids are weak willed as too many people become dependent on sticks and chairs rather than fighting to use their bodies and... is being replaced as soon as is possible!

I will be getting very familiar with ebay in the near future as I start selling off the stuff I no longer use (I guess my old bicycle might be a good start?!) to raise the funds ourselves.

I found it too frustrating trying to deal with the wheelchair service here (East Dorset) as the guy I saw struggled to understand the differences between rigid and folding chairs, and couldn't see any reason why anyone should want wheels larger than 22".

That's why I gave up on them and bought my own. I suppose I should have persevered because I had to cover the full cost myself, but my notorious patience deficit once again took control of my judgement!

I have to say, I'm very satisfied with the ex-demo Tilite TR. I had to tweak it a bit with larger wheels and casters but now it suits me fine - as did the price!

Good luck with the hunt.

[Little Alex]

I try and walk as much as possible with my sticks and splints but I need my chair for long trips out (shopping) or on a bad day.

I had an NHS assessment 18 months ago and it all went ok.

I met at the local wheelchair centre with an OT and another guy and tried out 6 different chairs. From folding heavy monsters to rigid super light weight space ships!

They measured me and assessed my skills in the chairs and I had to pick from 2.

I opted for the Quickie Argon (rigid) over the folding option as I felt more secure in the rigid frame. It was a more comftable ride. The back rest still folds and the wheels come off so it still fits in the boot of the car ok.

I had to pick a colour and I opted for blue as I did not want a bright shocking colour but I also did not want black. I wish I had gone for the silver now but never mind.

I think I waited about 9 weeks for the chair to arrive. And the NHS paid for it all and some non standard bits such as a angle adjustable foot plate so I can sit comfy in it with ot without my splints, tension back rest and so on.

I like the chair its not too heavy and not too light. I have not been brave enough to remove the anti tip bars yet as well, I am not the most co-ordinated person in the world and don't fancy landing on my back.

Oh and as for the person pushing you being very tell, I got removable push handles which can be height adjustable so that works well.

Have a look at the Quickie Argon and see what you think. If you want folding I have been told the Quickie Neon is quite good.

[ClaraTaylor]

Little Alex, on Sep 23 2009, 07:05 PM, said:

I try and walk as much as possible with my sticks and splints but I need my chair for long trips out (shopping) or on a bad day.

I had an NHS assessment 18 months ago and it all went ok.

I met at the local wheelchair centre with an OT and another guy and tried out 6 different chairs. From folding heavy monsters to rigid super light weight space ships!

They measured me and assessed my skills in the chairs and I had to pick from 2.

I opted for the Quickie Argon (rigid) over the folding option as I felt more secure in the rigid frame. It was a more comftable ride. The back rest still folds and the wheels come off so it still fits in the boot of the car ok.

I had to pick a colour and I opted for blue as I did not want a bright shocking colour but I also did not want black. I wish I had gone for the silver now but never mind.

I think I waited about 9 weeks for the chair to arrive. And the NHS paid for it all and some non standard bits such as a angle adjustable foot plate so I can sit comfy in it with ot without my splints, tension back rest and so on.

I like the chair its not too heavy and not too light. I have not been brave enough to remove the anti tip bars yet as well, I am not the most co-ordinated person in the world and don't fancy landing on my back.

Oh and as for the person pushing you being very tell, I got removable push handles which can be height adjustable so that works well.

Have a look at the Quickie Argon and see what you think. If you want folding I have been told the Quickie Neon is quite good.

Cheers for this

[JohnnyO]

greybeard, on Sep 15 2009, 04:52 AM, said:

ClaraTaylor, on Sep 15 2009, 01:40 PM, said:

Are there any advantages to a fixed frame?

Shout!

The main one for me was to be able to attach one of Patd's FreeWheel gizmos.
See here: http://gofreewheel.blogspot.com/
I tried converting a folding chair to take it but there was just too much flex to lift the casters. I still have a folder, but rarely use it.

Being able to remove the wheels and fold down the seat back, means that the rigid takes up no more space than the folder, and being in several bits - is lighter to man-handle.

Greybeard - what are your thoughts on the FreeWheel device? I saw this for the first time 2 weeks ago and thought it may actually work out when I'm getting around outside in the grass, curbs, camping, etc.

I would be interested in hearing your feedback.

Thanks for any info.

JO

[greybeard]

JohnnyO, on Sep 24 2009, 10:45 PM, said:

Greybeard - what are your thoughts on the FreeWheel device? I saw this for the first time 2 weeks ago and thought it may actually work out when I'm getting around outside in the grass, curbs, camping, etc.

I would be interested in hearing your feedback.

Thanks for any info.

JO

Hi JO,

I'm really pleased I bought one. It makes fairly light work of rougher ground by effectively replacing the casters with a wider, larger, single wheel. Large stones or even dense clumps of grass tend to make the wheel want to veer off to the side, but you wouldn't even get that far without the FreeWheel so it's a relatively small price to pay. I'm going to contact Patd again (he'll be sick of getting messages from me) to see if the self centering can be stiffened up a bit because of this.

I use mine most of the time as the pavement and road surfaces around here are not great. Being a novice chair user, I would have difficulty getting around without it.

The attachment is robustly made and well finished with good attention to detail. Patd (who is a member here) is a friendly, helpful guy ( I should also add PATIENT in big letters )who has gone way out of his way to sort the problems I originally had - not with the FreeWheel, but with the chair I was trying to attach it to. I recommend him as, a supplier, and his product. There are other members who have also bought FreeWheels and I've never read any bad comments about them. No doubt a few of these will add their recommendations as well.

[Patd]

greybeard, on Sep 24 2009, 03:08 PM, said:

JohnnyO, on Sep 24 2009, 10:45 PM, said:

Greybeard - what are your thoughts on the FreeWheel device? I saw this for the first time 2 weeks ago and thought it may actually work out when I'm getting around outside in the grass, curbs, camping, etc.

I would be interested in hearing your feedback.

Thanks for any info.

JO

Hi JO,

I'm really pleased I bought one. It makes fairly light work of rougher ground by effectively replacing the casters with a wider, larger, single wheel. Large stones or even dense clumps of grass tend to make the wheel want to veer off to the side, but you wouldn't even get that far without the FreeWheel so it's a relatively small price to pay. I'm going to contact Patd again (he'll be sick of getting messages from me) to see if the self centering can be stiffened up a bit because of this.

I use mine most of the time as the pavement and road surfaces around here are not great. Being a novice chair user, I would have difficulty getting around without it.

The attachment is robustly made and well finished with good attention to detail. Patd (who is a member here) is a friendly, helpful guy ( I should also add PATIENT in big letters )who has gone way out of his way to sort the problems I originally had - not with the FreeWheel, but with the chair I was trying to attach it to. I recommend him as, a supplier, and his product. There are other members who have also bought FreeWheels and I've never read any bad comments about them. No doubt a few of these will add their recommendations as well.

This was just aired last night on NBC.

http://www.ktvb.com/...tml?nvid=402469

Pat

[greybeard]

Nice clip, Pat.

[wheelywendy]

hi jo
i'm too a freewheeler, i love mine it gets me across grass fields, camp sites, gravel, tracks etc places i'd not been able to get in my manual chair until i brought my freewheel from pat, i too find the slightly irriatting that it tends to want to veer to the side when you hit dense clumps or stones, but mine was one of the first ones made and i think i'm right in saying that pat has addressed this problem in his later models, i'm sure i read that somewhere. i use mine most days even if its only across my rather rugged rear garden with the dogs, contact pat hes a very honest and helpful guy
wendy

greybeard, on Sep 24 2009, 11:08 PM, said:

JohnnyO, on Sep 24 2009, 10:45 PM, said:

Greybeard - what are your thoughts on the FreeWheel device? I saw this for the first time 2 weeks ago and thought it may actually work out when I'm getting around outside in the grass, curbs, camping, etc.

I would be interested in hearing your feedback.

Thanks for any info.

JO

Hi JO,

I'm really pleased I bought one. It makes fairly light work of rougher ground by effectively replacing the casters with a wider, larger, single wheel. Large stones or even dense clumps of grass tend to make the wheel want to veer off to the side, but you wouldn't even get that far without the FreeWheel so it's a relatively small price to pay. I'm going to contact Patd again (he'll be sick of getting messages from me) to see if the self centering can be stiffened up a bit because of this.

I use mine most of the time as the pavement and road surfaces around here are not great. Being a novice chair user, I would have difficulty getting around without it.

The attachment is robustly made and well finished with good attention to detail. Patd (who is a member here) is a friendly, helpful guy ( I should also add PATIENT in big letters )who has gone way out of his way to sort the problems I originally had - not with the FreeWheel, but with the chair I was trying to attach it to. I recommend him as, a supplier, and his product. There are other members who have also bought FreeWheels and I've never read any bad comments about them. No doubt a few of these will add their recommendations as well.

[ClaraTaylor]

Wonder if I can get a free wheeler attached to my office chair to prevent my arse appearing over the horizon when I mis judge the edge of the mat?

Been to see a very nice chap at Bromkin http://www.bromakin.co.uk/ who has been amazingly helpful and I can't thank him enough.

I shall now be checking down the backs of sofas /neglected piggy banks / rainy day funds / dipping into the car funds *gasp* / etc to save up the £1500 (I think that's right) for a very nice rigid beastie.

Soon freedom will be mine once more!!

[Wicket]

Duplicate post, sorry, see below.

This post has been edited by Wicket: 15 October 2009 - 02:03 AM

[Wicket]

The Quickie GT is very lightweight, 20 lbs even with an open, simple aluminum frame. (For a great price also as wheelchairs go.) Fixed frame is not as prone to general wear and tear because there is less to maintain.

This post has been edited by Wicket: 15 October 2009 - 01:38 AM