28 replies to this topic

[girlracer]

While I was on vacation in the UK I got a Parking Fine for having parked on a disabled space.
We were borrowing my brother's UK reg car and I had put my Italian Disabled Badge on display, but it was not 'accepted' as it's not Blue!
Here in Italy we only have these Orange ones, similar to the one below...

The Council I have been in contact with is insisting on me supplying a 'European Blue Badge', which here in Italy we just don't have/get!

It's not so much for the money that I want to get this fixed, but I know it won't be the last time I visit the UK. It is mainly that I have every right as a tetraplegic to park in that disabled space, and I do it because I need the wider parking space to do the transfers in/out of the car!

Does anybody have any advice as to what I could do next? Do I need to go as far as calling the Italian Embassy in the UK?
Thanx

[DaveP]

This is a common problem in every country - there doesn't seem to be a solution for disabled holidaymakers.

Why not send an email to the UK Tourist board and ask them what the solutuion is? Rather than "attack", write a mature letter outlining the problem and asking what they suggest as a solution. I'm sure they'll resolve this issue for you, but doubt they'll offer a long-term solution.

Please let us know how you get on as this is a problem that needs a solution.

[Lucydog]

You have 14 days to lodge an official appeal so I would do that to start with. If you do that the fine wont increase. You then have the option of taking it to tribunal. Also when you lodge your appeal as them for a copy of THE TRAFFIC REGULATION ORDER for the street you were fined in. Most councils dont like giving out such copies.

Yes please please contact the Italian Embassy to clarify this matter. I used to work in parking and have NEVER seen one of these badges before and I doubt many people have. It a widespread belief that EVERYONE within the EU has a blue badge who needs it. So it is not surprising you got a ticket.
You really do need to find out what the situation is for Italian residents because these orange badges are certainly not recognised in this country.
I mean you could have just knocked this up on the computer, and believe me people will go to extraordinary lengths.

Edited by Lucydog, 29 September 2009 - 12:43 PM.

[Scribbler]

I think the others are correct, first make an appeal against the fine in writing, but keep it polite and factual.

I got a parking fine due to my Blue Badge being out of date. I appealed and wrote that I know its my duty to check my Badge hasn't expired but I explained my wife had recently died, so I had other things on my mind and hadn't noticed the date on my badge.

They were understanding and waved the fine, which in most cases they do. Even if AB people appeal against parking fines a lot of them have their fines waved.

Good luck

Mike

[dangerousdave]

Sorry to hear of your trouble...but here in the UK we have no rights. Not even the EU ones.
All you can do is persist with the paper work all the way to the adjudicator.
Some councils don't go that far because of the cost.
Now if you could process all this paperwork from Italy it would increase the council costs.
I always tke my tickets to the adjudicator.....and I still havn'been fined.
But then I am bloody minded.

[girlracer]

DaveP, on Sep 29 2009, 12:40 PM, said:

This is a common problem in every country - there doesn't seem to be a solution for disabled holidaymakers.

Why not send an email to the UK Tourist board and ask them what the solutuion is? Rather than "attack", write a mature letter outlining the problem and asking what they suggest as a solution. I'm sure they'll resolve this issue for you, but doubt they'll offer a long-term solution.

Please let us know how you get on as this is a problem that needs a solution.

Thank you for your advice...
I looked on enjoyengland.com to find an eMail address to write to and found myself writing to the exact Council that has refused to understand the problem. This Council is the one that my brother (owner of the car) had to contest the fine in writing to within 14 days. As it has been my brother who has been in contact with them for the fine, I decided I could still write their tourist office (probably different people) a 'general inquiry' eMail asking what I should do when I visit the UK and only have my Orange Disabled Badge to display.
It's been sent, so I'll let you know if/what they reply!

Lucydog, on Sep 29 2009, 12:55 PM, said:

You have 14 days to lodge an official appeal so I would do that to start with. If you do that the fine wont increase. You then have the option of taking it to tribunal. Also when you lodge your appeal as them for a copy of THE TRAFFIC REGULATION ORDER for the street you were fined in. Most councils dont like giving out such copies.

Yes please please contact the Italian Embassy to clarify this matter. I used to work in parking and have NEVER seen one of these badges before and I doubt many people have. It a widespread belief that EVERYONE within the EU has a blue badge who needs it. So it is not surprising you got a ticket.
You really do need to find out what the situation is for Italian residents because these orange badges are certainly not recognised in this country.
I mean you could have just knocked this up on the computer, and believe me people will go to extraordinary lengths.

Thank you for your advice...
This Parking Fine was actually done/made in July, and my brother did contest the fine in writing within 14 days. But yesterday he let me know that he has given-up trying to make this Council understand the problem, and paid the fine. This does not solve my problem as I will be visiting the UK several times a year now that my first niece is born!
I'll be posting what the Italian Embassy replies...

Edited by girlracer, 29 September 2009 - 03:38 PM.

[Scribbler]

dangerousdave, on Sep 29 2009, 01:38 PM, said:

Sorry to hear of your trouble...but here in the UK we have no rights. Not even the EU ones.
All you can do is persist with the paper work all the way to the adjudicator.
Some councils don't go that far because of the cost.
Now if you could process all this paperwork from Italy it would increase the council costs.
I always tke my tickets to the adjudicator.....and I still havn'been fined.
But then I am bloody minded.

That's why he's called dangerousdave...

[HiltonP]

We picked up a $325 fine (a shitload of money in my country!) for parking is a disabled bay outside the San Diego Zoo. I've been permanently in a wheelchair for over 30 years, and we were using our SA blue disabled parking disc, while all the local obese people were parking around us to shorten their waddle to the gate. It seems fat folks are allowed to park un-hindered, but genuinely disabled people not ;)

We had a similar problem in Switzerland, where they wouldn't offer me the mandatory concession "because you don't have a government card saying you're disabled". If you could see me physically you would understand just how ridiculous that statement really is!

It's a problem for disabled travellers. More so if one is using a rental car, since any fines/charges are sent to the car rental company, who have your credit card info, and if you choose to fight they blacklist your card. We now avoid disabled parking bays, and pay our way as able-bods. It's just not worth the hassle of trying to sort these kind of issues out long distance.

[Tinbasher]

<quote>Sorry to hear of your trouble...but here in the UK we have no rights. Not even the EU ones.</quote>

Steady on Dave we do actually have a few rights

[dangerousdave]

Steady on Dave we do actually have a few rights
Says Tinbasher

Well heres a new one
Phoned transport at Bolsover Street to book my outpatient appointment as per usual.
The usual hospital ambulance. (sorry guys, tis is the UK, other sountries are differant I know)
Was told that as I had a blue parking badge I would be denied transport. This is a new policy.
They gave me a phone # to contact and contest their transport denial.
So the appointment was missed and I am still trying the unabtainable phone #.

Effectivaly I am being denied hospital treatment at the point of access because I can't access a major London hos[ital that has no parking fascilities whatsoever. Let alone the fatique issues I have to deal with.
The blue badge is a aid - not a cure.
RNOH Bolsover Street here in the UK is a major spinal clinic. With good public transport access for those not in wheelchairs.

[jacques]

Not sure if this of any help but we used to have orange parking badges in the U K for many years (I had one) and then had to renew for a Blue Badge (complete with photograph). Why? To conform with E U regulations!!!!!

I do not, however, think you would be able to obtain a U K (unless there's a special E U concession!!) as you have to prove (for my local authority, anyway, entitlement to Disability Living Allowance or exemption from U K road fund tax.

I think the embassy would be your best bet (careful about telephoning one in the U K as some charge £ 1 per minute here) but why not raise the matter the British Consul in your area? Or, if you really wish to pursue the matter a Disability Equality representative within the E U Commission.

If nothing else it'll give the bureaucrats something useful to do.

I'm not being completely frivolous as it took me quite some time to find the right bureaucrat in the U K to issue the correct forms for seat belt exemption. Believe it or not there is an office dedicated to that task and it is completely separate to the office dealing with all maters vehicular - the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency in Swansea. Even my doctor, who had to sign the certificate, didn't know where to obtain them!!

O, the joys of disability!!!

[DaveP]

The parking badge problem is the same for anyone travelling out of their own country. Girlracer is Italian and the UK wouldn't accept her Italian badge - the same would apply in Italy for a Brit using a UK blue parking badge, and so on.

With all the fraudulant parking badges out there, I don't see this being an easy one to resolve.

For a more serious response to this issue, in Europe, maybe the EU tourism department should be presented with this. But that would still leave the problem of what to do when American, Canadians, Aussies and other nationalities wordwide trael, and vice-versa.

We are issued international driving licences that allow us to drive all over the world, so why not an equivalent parking badge?

[girlracer]

I thought I'd just put a quick update here...

The eMail I wrote to the Council has of course not gotten a reply... surprise surprise!

I called the Italian Embassy but they said I had to call the Italian Consulate, so I did!
I talked to the Social Service office there and got a very short reply...

The Italian badge is not valid outside of Italy, and there is nothing they or I can do about my problem or fine (or any future fine, apparently).
She suggested I visit the TFL website as there should be some sort of useful information there...

So now, I'm finding the phone number to the Council I had tried to eMail!


I am aware that there probably is no solution to my problem at the moment, but I'm in the mood for trying to make one!

[Ratticis]

So your parking badge isn't valid outside your country but you can't get one that is because you're not a resident of that country? Makes sence.
So does that mean if I go to a different country I'm no longer disabled? Sweet!

[girlracer]

Just got off the phone with the Town Council, that forwarded me to the Borough Council, that forwarded me to the County Council, that wanted to forward (or backward) me to the Borough Council...
So the County Council said that if I was to stay for several months at a time they might find a way to issue me some 'piece of paper' with a special permit, but they were not guaranteeing it.
They suggested I go to the office that issued my Italian badge and try get something in writing from them. So now I have to write to the Mayor of my town again, as they have yet to install an elevator in the building where the 'Disabled Badge Office' is on the second floor!

Just out of curiosity they looked at what a UK Blue Badge holder would need to do if visiting Italy, and the UK Blue Badge is recognized and valid here.
You might find this document useful > blue_badge_abroad.pdf

Ratticis, on Oct 6 2009, 01:10 PM, said:

So your parking badge isn't valid outside your country but you can't get one that is because you're not a resident of that country? Makes sence.
So does that mean if I go to a different country I'm no longer disabled? Sweet!

Yep... seems like it!
I think you should modify your signature image a bit after this discovery!

Edited by girlracer, 06 October 2009 - 11:46 AM.

[Ratticis]

Lol, ya I might hafta change it to add "as long as I stay home!"

[Avocado Baby]

I just thought I'd tell you my story while we're on the subject.

This week, I got clamped in my own parking space in the residents' car park, while displaying a resident's parking permit and their reason was that I wasn't displaying a blue badge!!

Well, for a start, I would've thought by the huge Chair hoist on the top of my car and the hand controls, it was obvious I was a disabled driver and secondly, it's a private car park, with a parking space allocated to me!! I am not required to display a blue badge and I've found evidence on the government site that the blue badge scheme doesn't apply in private car parks.

I had to pay £160.00 to get them to unclamp my car, but I'm going to write to them with all the evidence and expect my money back with compensation for the trouble caused or I'll be going to the press.

Sorry for hijacking. I'm just so angry!!

[greybeard]

AB, who awarded the contract to the clamping company? Whoever it was would be my first port of call as they must have given specific instructions that the clamping company should abide by. In addition to the press, try your local MP and local councillors as well, as I seem to recall something about these companies having to be licensed by the local authority now(but that could be wrong). Good luck, and don't give up.

[Avocado Baby]

greybeard, on Oct 10 2009, 03:13 PM, said:

AB, who awarded the contract to the clamping company? Whoever it was would be my first port of call as they must have given specific instructions that the clamping company should abide by. In addition to the press, try your local MP and local councillors as well, as I seem to recall something about these companies having to be licensed by the local authority now(but that could be wrong). Good luck, and don't give up.

Thanks,

I'm writing to both the housing association and the clamping company.

[Angela250153]

girlracer just an idea. Could you brother not apply for a badge on your behalf via his GP or if his GP agrees you apply to the local council giving your brother's address?

[Slowlegs]

I would have thought that living in the EU you would be able to use your badge in any EU country. Perhaps you could try petitioning them to use a universal system. If they can bring in regulations attempting to ban double decker buses and standardising nose rings and permissable ashtray colours I would have thought that a universal mobility parking card would be up there somewhere. My New Zealand badge isn't able to be used anywhere but here. I don't use it often, only when my pain makes it too difficult to walk or I am having severe bladder issues and mainly in winter. As I only travel to places where it is warm and sunny I don't need to use it because of pain but it would be nice that if I did need it while on holiday I could use it without facing a huge fine.

[dangerousdave]

What this problem has shown is -
When travelling do your research.
Never assume anything.
When in Rome - Do what the romans do
Fortunatly I still travel a bit, and if it's not a last minute thing, go on the web, write to the embassy.
When you reach your destination, walk into and talk to the local police. The info you can get from talking is huge. In one area I got rid of a handfull of parking tickets that way.

[Lucky]

First time I ever used my blue badge, a friend placed it on the dash but upside down.
I got a fine and it took best part of 3 months to get my refund.... the warden could see it was a simple mistake but had only half a brain cell.

[dangerousdave]

Simple question

Why did you pay?

You want monies out of me.....you gotta take me to court.

Edited by dangerousdave, 27 October 2009 - 12:44 PM.

[Avocado Baby]

dangerousdave, on Oct 27 2009, 01:43 PM, said:

Simple question

Why did you pay?

You want monies out of me.....you gotta take me to court.

I had to pay to get them to release my car and I needed my car to to work.

The local paper are writing a story on it. Revenge is sweet!

[dangerousdave]

A LEGAL QUESTION

Does anybody out there know anything about the EU Disability Discrimination Laws

I thought they made it illeagle to move or clamp a vehical used by a disabled person

[guido]

dangerousdave, on Oct 28 2009, 09:55 AM, said:

A LEGAL QUESTION

Does anybody out there know anything about the EU Disability Discrimination Laws

I thought they made it illeagle to move or clamp a vehical used by a disabled person

They cannot clamp or tow you if you are displaying a blue badge - unless the car is parked in a dangerous position that it has to be moved, and this also applies if you have an animal in the car.

I like to taunt the London traffic wardens a little - figure I've bought the right to that many times over!!

example: drive past a lorry, just lifting a car. I drive up and stop, and say: hold on fellas, that's my wife's car. They reply: well it's illegally parked. I say: I know i know do you know how often she does this, costs me a fortune. <<keep them talking about this a while longer>> then I say: well how long are you gonna be gone as I need to park and don't fancy paying, I won't be long. They say: but there are other lorries, you'll get towed. I say: don't worry about that, just tell me how long you are gonna be gone... <<been talking about 8 minutes at this point>>
at which point, I see in my wing mirror a bloke running up to the lorry. He says: wait, that's my car!
Wardens look at him, look at me, unsure. I say: okay it's not my wife's car, I don't even have a wife.
then turn to bloke and say: if you get in your car right now they cannot put you in the lorry because of health & safety.
wardens explode and I drive off laughing, the last parking ticket I just paid just seemed cheaper.

[dangerousdave]

Nice to know I'm not the only mad idiot out there

[kafouser]

[quote name='DaveP' date='Oct 4 2009, 11:45 AM' post='132819']
The parking badge problem is the same for anyone travelling out of their own country. Girlracer is Italian and the UK wouldn't accept her Italian badge - the same would apply in Italy for a Brit using a UK blue parking badge, and so on.

Sorry Dave, but the Blue UK one is valid in all EU countries, provided you obey their rules. Mine has been tested in Germany Spain and France and seems to work OK. Trying to find out what the rules are is something else entirely...