[wheeliebear75]

Earlier this month there was a shooting at Fort Hood military base in Texas. A gunman opened fire killing many & wounding countless others.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/11/05/texas.for...ings/index.html

Although the info on some of the stories varies somewhat all agree that many people lost their lives needlessly & that many more bear both physical & psychological scars because of this incident. When I heard that the man responsible for the atrocities is now paralyzed the 1st words that came out of my mouth were "Good! I hope he lives a nice long life of UTI's & complications!". So does that make me wrong for saying it? I mean normally I wouldn't wish this crap on my worst enemy.......but personally I kinda think this guy deserves that & more for the pain he inflicted on others. If he was having "issues" with the military than he should have handled it like normal people do by going through the proper channels or doing like many did to avoid the draft back in the 60's go AWOL (sp?) & go move to Canada. Not opening fire on people who were unarmed.....the soldiers were unarmed for the most part, they were just there doing mundane paperwork and expecting to be ambushed was the furthest thing from their minds.

[JesseB]

My brother is actually stationd in Ft. hood. Although he's still in iraq, my sister in law and my nephew were there...
what a scare that was... thank goodness they were okay.

I actually didnt know he ended up paralyzed, but not sorry he is.

[E-DOG]

Wheelie-bean!

In a civilized society some might consider it barbaric to punish a murderer by physically disabling him. It also creates a burden on society. Think of what it costs to rehab, feed, care for someone in his new found physical state.

Families mourn lost members. Friends grieve for those now gone. And some poor misbegotten fool in a brand new wheelchair that you and I paid for rolls on down the road, great big, idiotic grin slapped across his face.

Hard to say just what it is the guy deserves. Ever wonder what was on his mind? What caused him to snap like a dried twig?
Have you ever felt like doing what he did? I have. Never did it. Felt like it, but I didn't do it.
And yet oddly enough here I am in a wheel chair.

Hummmm....

[Tetracyclone]

Good things happen to bad people, bad things happen to good people- there is no human logic to it, but most of us do enjoy thoughts of vengeance. A ghandian heart allows peace, but that is not always the preferred emotion. You feel what you feel, until you don't feel it anymore.

[mcferguson]

E-DOG, on Nov 14 2009, 01:50 AM, said:

Wheelie-bean!

In a civilized society some might consider it barbaric to punish a murderer by physically disabling him. It also creates a burden on society. Think of what it costs to rehab, feed, care for someone in his new found physical state.

Families mourn lost members. Friends grieve for those now gone. And some poor misbegotten fool in a brand new wheelchair that you and I paid for rolls on down the road, great big, idiotic grin slapped across his face.

Hard to say just what it is the guy deserves. Ever wonder what was on his mind? What caused him to snap like a dried twig?
Have you ever felt like doing what he did? I have. Never did it. Felt like it, but I didn't do it.
And yet oddly enough here I am in a wheel chair.

Hummmm....

Good point about him being a burden on society. I am sure it would cost even more money being paralyzed in a prison b/c he would likely have to be protected from the other prisoners in addition to all the health issues.

I don't think anyone deserves paralysis and I would not wish this on anyone. However, I do think he deserves the needle after a trial where he has to face the music.

[Trinity]

I wouldn't wish paralysis on anyone, no matter what they had done, but it wasn't my friends and family being shot I may feel differently if it was.

Who knows what was going through his mind and we shall probably never really know why he chose to go on the rampage. Mental illness, if that was what it was, can manifest itself in the most bizarre ways. If it was a mental illness (and surely it must be) then I don't think he deserves anything he got. I just hope he gets the treatment he needs.

[edlee]

Give HIM treatment??? Hell, he was a military psychiatrist whose job it was to treat others,, and to evaluate their mental stability. Pretty ironic, don't you think.

He was also a practicing Muslim, who openly and often showed sympathy with the "enemy" of the moment. Or so it has been reported. He was, at the time of the incident, trying to keep from being deployed to the conflict area,,, with apparently much success.

Was his act the result of a deranged mind,, or the obvious course for a true believer? I guess you'll have to ask him.

I have been trying to read the qoran and to tell the truth,, it's mostly a bore. I have to keep reminding myself about the way it was written,,, as a series of songs that could be taught to a almost totally illiterate group of followers. Is it any wonder they have to pray five times a day,,, just to remember all this shlok.

So far,,, and I'm well over half way through it,, I've found only a couple verses that, loosely read/sung could suggest that the killing of nonbelievers,, and a much greater number demanding tolerance. I guess it's no different from any other religious text,,, people will pull from it what they need to do what they wanted to do in the first place.

As for this dickhead,,, better crippled and in jail than the needle and the easy way out. I'm against the death penalty, not because it's cruel, but because it isn't cruel enough
ed

[dom]

i also would'nt wish paralysis on anyone and as the saying goes 'he without sin cast the first stone' [not that i'm religious or anything]as we know in this world the people who deserve good things often don't get them and vice versa so as far as i'm concerned i prefer the stoic viewpoint,at least that way worldy things don't affect my actions/reactions

[too much]

[Mac na Ceardadh]

Does he deserve paralysis? Do you?? No, IMHO, he does not deserve paralysis but he does deserve a severe punishment. I do not believe in the death penalty..killing this fool will just make him a martyr.


Put him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life. Allow him no contact with other prisoners or anyone else. Leave him alone, in isolation and in silence. Let him rot in the silence of his mind and finally die, untreated, alone.

That is punishment.

[Ratticis]

I wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. And I do fear that since he's now para;yzed even more people will look at others in chairs with an attitude that "they must have done something to deserve it!" I got this attitude most of my stay in the hospital, even to the point where I nearly started to believe it. I don't look at it like "good, he deserves it", but i certiently don't look at it like "o that poor dear" either. BUT, I will most certinly be outraged if his day in court comes and he gets a lesser sentance because "he's suffered enough"!

[wheeliebear75]

I never meant that I would wish for someone to be paralyzed.....more like what ed said about he would have become a martyr if he had been killed....alive he will have to face his day in court. BUT since he did end up being paralyzed he'll have a harder time than if he was AB & I highly doubt that he's going to get the really good equipment or supplies & although yes he'll probably not be in general population.......HE wouldn't have been in general population even if he were still an AB. He was a mental health professional who chose to open fire in the building where last paperwork before deployment are finished AND when guys come back they're sent there to recoup & desensitize from the fighting "you're safe now the war & fighting is over THERE & you're over HERE. Back to normal life soldier.".......& then THIS! No not that I wish FOR anyone to become paralyzed but I am all for making criminals suffer.

[topperf]

- Suffering and justice rarely go hand in hand, and punishment in it's basic sense isn't satisfactory when you really think about it - isolation and confinement is truly crippling, but not comparable to the state of being paralyzed to the instinct of being 100% dependable of others. The worst that could happen to this man is to grasp what he has done to the victims loved ones.
I think he has already wished himself dead a thousand times, maybe even before his misdeed - he is being punished alright.

[greybeard]

topperf, on Nov 15 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

I think he has already wished himself dead a thousand times, maybe even before his misdeed - he is being punished alright.

If he has, it was probably because he thinks he has earned his ticket to paradise. Prolonging his life to deny him martyr status, is probably the most fitting punishment of all.

[topperf]

greybeard, on Nov 15 2009, 05:12 PM, said:

topperf, on Nov 15 2009, 02:18 PM, said:

I think he has already wished himself dead a thousand times, maybe even before his misdeed - he is being punished alright.

If he has, it was probably because he thinks he has earned his ticket to paradise. Prolonging his life to deny him martyr status, is probably the most fitting punishment of all.

- ''Prolonging his life to deny him martyr status, is probably the most fitting punishment of all.'' This is what I don't understand. I mean, does it make you feel better if this is the case? Your sense of justice?
Does it really make you feel better, if he suffers harder? longer?

[edlee]

I'm afraid it does, topper. But , to me,, it's not about revenge,, revenge would be to find all the people he loves or are or ever were important to him,, bring them all to his hospital room,, then shoot them all in the head, in front of him.

Certainly not something any sane person or sane government would do.

Punishment, on the other hand, would be to force him to understand exactly what he has done,,, and give him a long time to dwell on it. Pictures of those he murdered, attached to the walls of his cell,, maybe the pictures of their children, as well.

But that would, in this country, be considered cruel and unusual punishment,, and so , not allowed. Confinement is all we have.

Maybe , someday,, he will realize the atrosity he has committed,,,,, one can only hope.
ed

[Kwag_Myers]

This is why I support capital punishment. There is no place in our society for this person. Let him be a martyr, I don't care. If I had to pick this guy's punishment, I think I'd pick cancer over SCI.

[greybeard]

topperf, on Nov 15 2009, 06:47 PM, said:

Does it really make you feel better, if he suffers harder? longer?

Yep.

But then I'm not the forgiving type.

[allis53ca]

capital punishment should not be death, should be, sever cord at c-3 and lay in a bed for 30 years

[StillFingers]

I would not wish SCI on anyone. Nor would I deny this murderer the harshest punishment within our laws; SCI, insane or not. Do I care what happens to him, no, except possibly help him realized what he has done. For those murdered, wounded, their families, friends, soldiers in arms, express our compassion, honor their service and give them whatever they need to help them live with, through this horror.

This post has been edited by StillFingers: 16 November 2009 - 04:03 AM

[Ches]

I'm honestly surprised he wasn't killed during the entire ordeal, kinda disappoints me.

I don't want to pay for his medical care or living expenses. Period.

The Texan in me says make an example out of him. The humane side of me wishes this wasn't another Muslim attempting to kill people here in Texas, the south really is a racist place.. (might I add we arent ALL that way) between this guy and the one trying to bomb a skyrise in Dallas last month Im not sure that Muslims are ever going to fit in with the majority down here. But all that aside I still don't want to pay for his living expenses. Period.

[MxDisasterGrl]

edlee, on Nov 15 2009, 02:56 PM, said:

I'm afraid it does, topper. But , to me,, it's not about revenge,, revenge would be to find all the people he loves or are or ever were important to him,, bring them all to his hospital room,, then shoot them all in the head, in front of him.

Certainly not something any sane person or sane government would do.

Punishment, on the other hand, would be to force him to understand exactly what he has done,,, and give him a long time to dwell on it. Pictures of those he murdered, attached to the walls of his cell,, maybe the pictures of their children, as well.

But that would, in this country, be considered cruel and unusual punishment,, and so , not allowed. Confinement is all we have.

Maybe , someday,, he will realize the atrosity he has committed,,,,, one can only hope.
ed

I agree w/ this....i'm completely torn in two w/ deciding what exactly i would do w/ him. I'm down for an eye for an eye. I would want him to suffer to the fullest extint possible. Being paralyzed is definitely a great start. I believe in the death sentence, but also think that it's the easy way out sometimes.... All these SOBs making us live in fear. I'm terrified for my children to go on field trips, worried about strangers looking at them the wrong way. I live right next to (i think) the biggest Army training base for the troops going overseas. As a matter of fact, over here, just a few miles from my own house there are thousands of Iraqis being trained by the USA how to fight. But the bad truth today is that it doesn't have to be a "terrorist". It can be ANYONE!

Actually the last two times that i've gone on base to watch some mothocross riding, my license hasn't scanned. Each time the men soldiers would just look at me and say, "well you don't look like a threat to me..." LMAO, the last guy who said it i just looked at him like, hmmm...you don't think so??? lol, as i was driving off, you could see the hamster in his head running 'round and 'round, wondering if he had just made a HUGE mistake. It's cracks like that that i believe this guy fell through.

E-dog, i know, i've thought about doing crazy things, but i probably just watch too much television...and think i'm rambo!!! But that's the difference between sane and insane. I would never hurt a fl...well i kill flys nevermind....i'm just not dangerous i'll say...lol...anyways...he deserves whatever god favors for him to have. God forgives and being a muslim, he knows that. Sometimes that makes me mad to know. There should be some limitations as to what can be forgiven. I don't know what i would do if i actually made it to the "glory land" and saw this guy walking around!!

It's all in God's plan. I didn't "deserve" this wheelchair, but there's a bigger picture out there. Maybe the chair was god's way of his punishment, and that's how he mysteriously made it out alive. Maybe i was going to die a horrible death, but my accident ACTUALLY kept me from whatever it was i was going to do. Who knows? But who are we to judge?

that's what i think

[Ratticis]

Old friend of my dad had a theory;

Get a couple of those planes they used to deliver supplies and stuff in the war, the ones that the ass end opens up. Then put a big hydralic plunger at the frount. Load all those murderers and rapests and other assholes in the abck, fly way out into the ocean and open the bacl door and kick in the plunger and push 'em all out into the ocean. If they manage to survive and swim to some island or something they can stay there, otherwise f*@k 'em!

[wheeliebear75]

As for this particular shooter he was a psychiatrist for the army......he had clearance & then some.....and unlike a civilian he was able to have firearms on his person. Taking his friends & family to his hospital room & watching them be shot would be "an eye for an eye" but we do not punish the parents of murderers for not having raised their children better & punishing the friends and/or family of the guy who turned Fort Hood into a shooting gallery is WAY off what I or most human beings would consider "OK".

I don't think criminals really get "punished"; many of them especially the career criminals going to jail or prison is like going to a really rough summer camp.....no big deal. Arizona has prisoners out in tents.....that must be fun in the summer heat & in the mid winter. SCI can happen due to injuries......gun shots being one of them......Cancer is something different.....unless we injected Cancer cells into someone then it's just luck of the draw & lets face it Caucasians are much more likely to get Cancer than someone of Middle Eastern decent.

He can die.....but just not until he has lost his notoriety for the shooting. Perfect punishment let him suffer in prison in solitary confinement with nothing to look at but photos of the injured & their loved ones.....when he wants to see his own family or talk with them.......go through the list of dead who will never speak to or embrace their loved ones again & tell him to ask them for mercy & forgiveness from the children who will grow up without parents to the parents who buried children.

I don't think that having a SCI is something that we should cause OR wish for, but I'm sure that the injured survivors have a lifetime to live with their injuries......so why should we feel for him? I'm glad that the courts allow "victim impact statements" & I hope that when this scum has his day in court that it takes more than just one day....and I'm sure just in the staggering numbers of victims that it will take some time to get through them all.

I do not think that Muslims on the whole are all out to blow us up or gun us down......but unfortunately those Muslims who are "innocent" will end up suffering a lot of hatred for the actions of a few. I knew someone who was Muslim & actually she was horrified by the actions of 9/11. She said that according to the Quran even in war only an armed man is to be fought & buildings are not supposed to be destroyed. She was offended that someone would take the teachings which she saw as loving & peaceful teachings & tainting them to/for the world.

[edlee]

Just as in the bible,, what's written in the quran is subject to the interpretation of the one reading it.

This guy is going to be tried in a military court,,, subject to different rules than a civilian one. I doubt that there will be any sentence other than death. There are different rules concerning appeals, also. None are automatic, as on the civilian side,, and not many are allowed.

Having become a member of the military, he would have agreed to being subject to the military code of justice, and have no place to appeal that. Since the lack of appeals takes away one of my main oppositions to capital punishment,, and because I doubt that this guy will suffer greatly from either remorse or confinement,, maybe if they use a firing squad,, I would go along with it.
ed

This post has been edited by edlee: 16 November 2009 - 08:36 PM

[wheeliebear75]

I have NO problem with religion itself......my only problem with it......with ANY religion is the way PEOPLE twist scriptures/teachings to fit their own agendas.

I hope they still have victim impact statements allowed in military court. Although HE may not give a rat's ass about how much pain he caused their families should have the chance to make their statements & to if nothing else let the courts know their pain.

The only differences I knew of were the lack of appealing any decisions made by the court & that unlike where in civilian trials you can have a hung jury where it gets retried with another set of jurors military court only requires a majority vote of guilt. I doubt any military personnel would grant one iota of leniency.

[edlee]

I think you might be right about letting the victoms/families speak in court,,,, we all know how much having a venue for our own rants, can take a bit of the pressure off. Losing a loved one is tough enough,, they should , at least, be allowed to yell at the one responsible.

As for religion,,,, that's another thread.
ed