[wheelywendy]

http://uk.news.yahoo.com/5/20091119/tuk-gu...te-45dbed5.html

guide dog attacked by out of control terrier type dog Cricklewood station, in north-west London. anyone with assistance dogs in this area please be aware, come to that anyone with any dog in this area,
this is shocking and must have been even more scary for the blind owner being unable to see what was happening
but i bet the police brush this attack aside , that dog was her carer and the attack should be treated as such but i bet its not, i once had a druggie try to steal my assistance dog whilst out shopping in a busy shoping centre but all the police did was to remove him from the area they didnt even bother to take a statement!! heres hoping they find this dog and its owner and take apropriate action before it happens again!!

[greybeard]

This was horrible. Poor woman. I hope the police do find the owner and take some action against him but to a great extent they are limited as to what they can do.

My involvement with the law was a long time ago and things may have changed since then, but dogs were not considered to be "property" and therefore could not be "stolen" under the laws dealing with theft etc. Ridiculous as it sounds, anyone caught stealing a dog, can only be charged with stealing the collar the dog was wearing. Unlike the dog, the collar does fit the definition of "property".

This may explain why the police reacted the way they did in your case. There is rarely any correlation between the "law" and "justice".

[qbounce]

Okay GB,
On which side of the bars did your involvement of the law reside?-haha

[guido]

greybeard, on Nov 20 2009, 03:44 AM, said:

My involvement with the law was a long time ago and things may have changed since then, but dogs were not considered to be "property" and therefore could not be "stolen" under the laws dealing with theft etc.

I believe that a dog IS property these days - whereas a cat is not. And so for example if your dog causes an accident you can be deemed responsible.

The guy deserves a severe kicking - or even putting in a locked room with some other idiots out of control dog - and the dog should be humanely destroyed. And he should never be allowed another dog.

Rough justice served harshly.

This post has been edited by guido: 20 November 2009 - 07:20 PM

[twisted_ophelia]

That is absolutely horrible

[wheelywendy]

thought i'd update this posting as just found out they caught the dog owner that was responsible for the attack see attatched http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100224/tuk-m...ck-6323e80.html

[guido]

wheelywendy, on Feb 24 2010, 05:49 PM, said:

thought i'd update this posting as just found out they caught the dog owner that was responsible for the attack see attatched http://uk.news.yahoo.com/21/20100224/tuk-m...ck-6323e80.html

thanks for the link. Always good to get a follow up.

[wheeliebear75]

OMG!!!

MY Mother uses a black lab/golden retriever cross from a guide dog school a train ride away. My mom is not completely blind but she has had trouble with pet dogs coming after her dogs......to the point she still carries her cane with her so that should another dog start attacking HER dog she can try & fend off the other dog. The police & animal control officers are generally of little to no help. They wont do anything until her dog is wounded.

I'm glad that the dog owner was "punished" but I'm guessing that unless he is checked in on a regular basis & at unexpected times by the authorities.......sadly he will have more dogs & they too will act as this other dog did. It's NOT the dog it's the OWNER that dictates a dog's behavior. I have seen pit-bull terriers which have a nasty reputation but were the sweetest most lovable family dogs you'd ever meet. Even seen them lick kittens.......as in to clean them not to eat them. ;) Hence why I say it is not so much what kind of dog it is but how it was treated & how it was socialized.

[bobm]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qy...Do_You_Hate_Me/

See this for a grim account of police indifference to disability hate crime in South Wales..

One hopes that the resolve to do better in future is genuine.

[bobm]

bobm, on Feb 25 2010, 11:50 AM, said:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qy...Do_You_Hate_Me/

See this for a grim account of police indifference to disability hate crime in South Wales..

One hopes that the resolve to do better in future is genuine.

Apologies! I have just seen the original thread on this...

[edlee]

Quote

Hence why I say it is not so much what kind of dog it is but how it was treated & how it was socialized

I can't agree with that, I'm afraid. Statistics show that certain breeds are far more likely to be involved in aggressive and dangerous behavior. Anyone who owns such animals must be aware of this,, and take adequate precautions,,, no matter how many kittens it licks. The part I do agree with is it's not the dogs fault but the owners. Particularly those who keep telling everyone how "gentle" their dog is,,, even after it's bitten someones face off.

The licensing shouldn't be of the dogs,, but of the owners.

KEEP'EM ON A LEASH.

( Might be a good idea for some of the children I've seen lately)
ed

[alwyen]

edlee, on 25 February 2010 - 05:41 PM, said:

Quote

Hence why I say it is not so much what kind of dog it is but how it was treated & how it was socialized

I can't agree with that, I'm afraid. Statistics show that certain breeds are far more likely to be involved in aggressive and dangerous behavior. Anyone who owns such animals must be aware of this,, and take adequate precautions,,, no matter how many kittens it licks. The part I do agree with is it's not the dogs fault but the owners. Particularly those who keep telling everyone how "gentle" their dog is,,, even after it's bitten someones face off.

The licensing shouldn't be of the dogs,, but of the owners.

KEEP'EM ON A LEASH.

( Might be a good idea for some of the children I've seen lately)
ed

i know this is getting off topic but i am firmly in the camp of deed not breed thats the problem i've seen what pitbulls and other bull breeds go through to make them human agressive and what these crual twats call game and i've seen labradors after the same treatment and the labs became agressive after a few weeks the bull breeds it took in most cases over a year i know of this only because a friend of my dads would take on recues mostly bull breeds why do people think for centuries the bull breeds had the nickname nanny dogs my own dog who i couldn't live on my own without was attacked at the begining of augaust her breed bullmastiff cross english bull terrier the attacking dogs breed labrador my dog didn't retaliate at all just layed there i know in the wrong hands they can cause some nasty injurys and even kill but any dog can attack any dog even a pomiranian can kill

[edlee]

I hear this type of argument all the time,,, and always from owners of these "infamous" dogs. Of course invironment and training has a great influence on a dogs normal behavior,, any dog's. But blaming training as a guard dog,, or having been mistreated as the reasons behind the majority of severe dog attacks is simply not supported by statistics.

Certain breeds of dogs are statistically more dangerous than others. Dogsbite.org shows 88 deaths from dog attacks in the US between 2006 and 2008. Pit bulls and their mixes accounted for 52 of them,, that's 59%. When you add in the rottweilers it brings the total up to 73%. Pomeranians accounted for none.

My point is that if you choose to own one of these breeds and refuse to admit to yourself that regardless of training, they are still dangerous,,, you are a fool,,, and should be held criminally responsible for anything your animal does. It is morally imperative that one take responsibility for their actions,,, or inactions in such cases.

Don't misunderstand me,,, I love animals,, dogs especially. What I don't care for are irresponsible owners.
ed

[greybeard]

edlee, on 10 November 2010 - 08:33 PM, said:

I hear this type of argument all the time,,, and always from owners of these "infamous" dogs. Of course invironment and training has a great influence on a dogs normal behavior,, any dog's. But blaming training as a guard dog,, or having been mistreated as the reasons behind the majority of severe dog attacks is simply not supported by statistics.

Certain breeds of dogs are statistically more dangerous than others. Dogsbite.org shows 88 deaths from dog attacks in the US between 2006 and 2008. Pit bulls and their mixes accounted for 52 of them,, that's 59%. When you add in the rottweilers it brings the total up to 73%. Pomeranians accounted for none.

My point is that if you choose to own one of these breeds and refuse to admit to yourself that regardless of training, they are still dangerous,,, you are a fool,,, and should be held criminally responsible for anything your animal does. It is morally imperative that one take responsibility for their actions,,, or inactions in such cases.

Don't misunderstand me,,, I love animals,, dogs especially. What I don't care for are irresponsible owners.
ed

It's nice to quote statistics when they can be relied upon but, as for 59% of all killer dogs being Pit Bulls, perhaps 59% of folks own this breed. Perhaps hardly any people own Pomeranians. I don't know. Do you? In any event it seems to me to be self evident that a larger breed is likely to do more damage than a miniature so your comparison is hardly valid.

Don't misunderstand me either. I agree that whatever a dog does is the responsibility of the owner. I do not agree that some breed are inherently dangerous to people. Other dogs, cats and small furry things maybe, but not humans. Size, power and the strength of bite are all factors that determine how much damage a dog will do if provoked and not controlled properly by the owner/handler. The exceptions are dogs that have been deliberately trained to attack humans. In which case they should rehabilitated if possible - - - after they have been allowed to bite lumps out of the owner/trainers.

Incidentally I don't consider myself to be a fool for holding these opinions or because I own a rescued dog that looks like a Pit Bull and has similar power. It is in fact believed to be a cross between a Staffordshire Bull Terrier and Rhodesian Ridgeback. A more good-natured animal you would not meet, but never the less, it is always on a leash in public. Not because I fear it would attack anyone, but because I don't want to lose it.

[chrisarnold6]

As the attacking dog was not one of the "fighting" types, which should be muzzled for walks, the final answer must lie with the owner. This was a horrible and deeply worrying situation. Policing has almost turned into a postcode lottery; some complaints are treated very carefully in some areas, but given a lower priority in others. In London the Met has more than most in violent crime quota, but if you are not happy, the chief constable or borough commander is one choice, failing that your MP should be informed.