14 replies to this topic

[guido]

Here's a good one (links to Yahoo news feature)

Having had an almighty row with customs officers in Toulouse airport myself over this issue, maybe I was weak and should have taken this chaps attitude rather than finally accepting their chair.

Good that it makes a splash and embarrasses the airlines into reviewing policy.

Every little helps....!

[russ1]

I've had the same problem on arrival at Heathrow with a friend in a chair - got £400 each out of British Airways when we complained after. We didn't find out until after we were off the plane. Now I refuse to leave the plane until I know my own wheelchair is waiting at the plane door.

[edlee]

There were a number of comments to the article, at the link you gave us. I have to say, I'm in the middle here. But, in the end,, he did come across more as a petulant child than the crusader for disabled rights.

I took his behavior as,, in some way,, an insult to any disabled person who ever accepts help, from anyone. Not understanding that space is at a premium in the passenger area of any aircraft,, and that the "special" chair was designed to fit in it's own niche while in flight,,seems a bit short sighted.

Did he think that his chair would be available to him throughout the flight? Would it have fit down the aisles or into the toilets? That part was left out of the article.

Should all the planes be built bigger to accommodate us,, or should we do a little to accommodate them? If I go to a restaurant and am confronted by a curb I can't negotiate,,, I could sit outside and decry their lack of accessibility,, or I could accept the aid which they freely offer,, go inside and enjoy a good meal.

That's the choice WE make every day. Some battles need to be fought,,, others,,, well,, that's why we have free choice. You pick your own and let the rest of the world decide who the asshole was.
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[russ1]

The point is he was asked (told) he had to check in his chair as hold luggage - it wasn't the short trip down the aisle once at the plane door but the whole journey (2 hours plus) between check in and boarding that is in question here. So I'm totally with him here - I wouldn't spend 2 hours in an airport chair that I couldn't push myself without making a huge fuss. His treatment was unnecessary and degrading.

[edlee]

I must agree, Russ,,, that if he was expected to wait in that chair for a long period, it would be offensive. That's the problem with news articles,,, many of the points needed to make a good accessment are left out in favor of those that will give rise to emotions.

Won't know the real facts unless you ask those involved,,,, not much chance of that.
ed

[Skrads]

I am from Australia and those in wheelchairs have a very close community. I have met Kurt, and from what I have been told from those who spoke to him yesterday is that he was asked to hand his wheelchair in as baggage at the check-in. He checked-in about 2-3 hours before the flight was due to leave. He didn't rant and rave about the problem, but felt that it was unacceptable as it is the first time it had ever happened. Every other airport allows you to use you chair until you are boarding the plane or, if your chair is small enough, let your take your wheelchair onto the plane. Once you transfer to the plane seat, the wheelchair is placed where it is still accessible from inside the plane. The problem in the article was that the check-in staff were inexperienced and had not delt with this situation before.

[edlee]

Did they tell you how he got OFF the plane? I have to admit,, him crawling about the airport and onto the plane should certainly have sent a message. Hope it was heard.
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[guido]

Really it's just another story about the demise of our old friends "Common Sense" and "If you don't have the answer, ask someone"

The thing about this guy putting himself out (I mean THINK about crawling about on a airport floor) is that it was not possible for any person to ignore the problem or brush it aside. Someone HAD to take responsibility for this event and ensure that the commercial enterprises involved were not publicly embarrassed in this way again. This is in a way the best of what capitalism has to offer, and highlights the pressure that can be brought to bear to achieve good ends.

BRAVO the maverick. I salute you!

[Ratticis]

No, he shouldn't have to use the airport chair from check in till he boards the plane, but he carried on like a spoiled child!

[graphic]

I'm with Kurt on this one. I have no problem transferring into a narrow chair at the door of the plane but I always confirm with the airline on booking that I'll be able to use my own chair up until boarding the plane. I also carry a letter from my doctor stating that I need both my chair and my cushion. I've experienced a nine hour delay (on top of the standard 3 hour wait for long haul flights) and there's no way would I like to spend twelve hours in a cumbersome airline chair which always seem made to fit the biggest person one could imagine. If I was faced with his problem at check in I don't think I'd have the courage to crawl across the airport floor....but I'm glad he did!

[Bill Forrester]

We can argue about tactics all day it worth clarifying the facts. Brisbane airport is fairly large with long fingers. The check in desk is just inside the terminal from the road, with then a long distance out to the gates. Kurt was asked to check his chair in at check in and was offered an aisle chair for the transit to the gate lounge and for the waiting period. It wasn't at the gate but at check in. The issue is not one of local complaints but of a greater cultural issue within Jetstar. At the risk od stirring up the argument further here is a piece I wrote this morning and it includes a response from a Flight Attendant that to me further indicates a fundamental flaw in the customer service culture. Sometimes dramatic action is justified to grab the attention of company directors and senior management who are the only people who can change the fundamental attitude across an entire company.
There has been a lot of talk in the press over this incident with Kurt Fearnley and Jetstars response of looking at their procedures. Looking at or changing the procedures is only part of the issue. It is clear from Jetstars attitude it is still all about the"chair" and how to handle it and what is convenient. There is still a gap between the person and the piece of equipment as opposite to viewing the chair as an integral part of the person. It is not viewed as something that is critical to a persons mobility and independence. This has nothing to do with procedures but everything to do with how the organisation's culture views people with disabilities and until the Qantas board take a social inclusive stance then no manner of procedures will change the fundamental attitude of the front line staff. Remember also that being a cheap airline does not absolve any organisation of its obligations under the law, nor does its terms and conditions afford it protection under those same laws. Globally social inclusion is gaining momentum and if this was the United States Jetstar would have been forced to accommodate the wheelchair within cabin storage and have the chair available at the aerobridge on deplaning.
The following has been extracted from public responses in this mornings press and it is telling.
"As airline crew I assist people using wheelchairs all the time. Some airlines allow gate checking, some do not. It's not stated at what time Mr Fearnley checked in, this could have been a factor if he was checking in close to the flight closure time, the chair might have been taken at check-in so it could go right to the hold. Policies like this are clearly laid out and it's a reality in this day and age that low-cost airlines often provide a very simple service- if having your own chair is important to you up until the last minute then it might be a good idea to book with an airline that allows this (Such as Qantas) 99% of the passengers I assist have no problem with using the airport chair. Jetstar were only offering what they offer everyone else & if Mr Fearnley wanted to decline it then that is his choice. If using the bathroom is an issue, communicating this to the staff is a good idea. Many times we take the person to the bathroom, park the chair securely and they transfer to the toilet and back then let us know when to come back in to push them to the gate. I do think there has been a bit of a fuss over this, Jetstar can't change the rules for one person and not others."

I dont blame the staff for the above but it is an example of a culture that simply regards PWD"s as a problem. As such it is fine to take away their dignity and treat them as "an item" for the sake of operational efficiency. It is just not acceptable to treat human beings in such a fashion and is a total indictment of the Board and senior management team at Qantas.

[allister]

I have suffered this only once, and it wasn't a good start to holiday. It was insult to injury when my chair was delivered back to me at destination on the baggage carousel with a heavy case on top of it, and my cushion missing! Never did get the cushion back, and thats 5 yrs ago!
I've never parted with it since till I'm on the plane, and don't leave the plane without it.

[Skrads]

Bill Forrester, on Nov 25 2009, 12:20 PM, said:

We can argue about tactics all day it worth clarifying the facts. Brisbane airport is fairly large with long fingers. The check in desk is just inside the terminal from the road, with then a long distance out to the gates. Kurt was asked to check his chair in at check in and was offered an aisle chair for the transit to the gate lounge and for the waiting period. It wasn't at the gate but at check in. The issue is not one of local complaints but of a greater cultural issue within Jetstar. At the risk od stirring up the argument further here is a piece I wrote this morning and it includes a response from a Flight Attendant that to me further indicates a fundamental flaw in the customer service culture. Sometimes dramatic action is justified to grab the attention of company directors and senior management who are the only people who can change the fundamental attitude across an entire company.
There has been a lot of talk in the press over this incident with Kurt Fearnley and Jetstars response of looking at their procedures. Looking at or changing the procedures is only part of the issue. It is clear from Jetstars attitude it is still all about the"chair" and how to handle it and what is convenient. There is still a gap between the person and the piece of equipment as opposite to viewing the chair as an integral part of the person. It is not viewed as something that is critical to a persons mobility and independence. This has nothing to do with procedures but everything to do with how the organisation's culture views people with disabilities and until the Qantas board take a social inclusive stance then no manner of procedures will change the fundamental attitude of the front line staff. Remember also that being a cheap airline does not absolve any organisation of its obligations under the law, nor does its terms and conditions afford it protection under those same laws. Globally social inclusion is gaining momentum and if this was the United States Jetstar would have been forced to accommodate the wheelchair within cabin storage and have the chair available at the aerobridge on deplaning.
The following has been extracted from public responses in this mornings press and it is telling.
"As airline crew I assist people using wheelchairs all the time. Some airlines allow gate checking, some do not. It's not stated at what time Mr Fearnley checked in, this could have been a factor if he was checking in close to the flight closure time, the chair might have been taken at check-in so it could go right to the hold. Policies like this are clearly laid out and it's a reality in this day and age that low-cost airlines often provide a very simple service- if having your own chair is important to you up until the last minute then it might be a good idea to book with an airline that allows this (Such as Qantas) 99% of the passengers I assist have no problem with using the airport chair. Jetstar were only offering what they offer everyone else & if Mr Fearnley wanted to decline it then that is his choice. If using the bathroom is an issue, communicating this to the staff is a good idea. Many times we take the person to the bathroom, park the chair securely and they transfer to the toilet and back then let us know when to come back in to push them to the gate. I do think there has been a bit of a fuss over this, Jetstar can't change the rules for one person and not others."

I dont blame the staff for the above but it is an example of a culture that simply regards PWD"s as a problem. As such it is fine to take away their dignity and treat them as "an item" for the sake of operational efficiency. It is just not acceptable to treat human beings in such a fashion and is a total indictment of the Board and senior management team at Qantas.

I support you 100% on this and it is not only a problem with airlines but public access everywhere in Australia. For example, before the Sydney Olympics in 2000 there was only on train station in the Sydney CBD with wheelchair access, that was at Central Station, and required using service elevators and tunnels. Now there are only 3 train stations out of 6 or 7 in the Sydney CBD that have wheelchair access. Although this has fixed a major problem, a city the size of Sydney should still have access at all its train stations from the CBD to the outer suburbs, not every 5 odd stations. The same can be said about the amount of wheelchair accessible buses.

With Australia's small population, there aren't as many people requiring disabled access as in other countries, but with a fast rising population, the amount of people with disabilities is going to increase with it. Also, with technology improving all the time, there are going to be a lot more disabled people becoming independant. Therefore, companies like Jetstar are going to have to re-evalute their policies to accommodate this.

I think the way Kurt addressed the problem was very professional. He did not get aggressive towards the employees of Jetstar, and instead did something that grabbed the attention of the public to demonstrate how policies, laws, etc need to be changed dramatically in Australia.

[dangerousdave]

Having travlled over many years to many lands on many airlines
Never had I been told to vacate my chair befor reaching the planes door
I was asked once what I would prefer
The need for a cramped fusalage and special narrow chair is understandable
Yes accomidation should be designed into airframes by now .. but alas
I don't mind first on last off .. so long as my chair is at the door.
You the passenger have the international right to depart the door in your chair (grieveous bodily harm) and the planes captain is not officialy allowed to leave the plane when there is a passenger aboard (international law)
So you can kick up a almighty stink just by staying seated
Yes I have entered planes via the scissor lift when the plane wasn't "docked"
Several times when booking a flight I've been requesed to ring a accessability penpusher so that both me the passenger and provider the airline discuss any issues either may have about the travel arrangements.

My chair is my legs .. nobody has the right to remove them
I can relate many travel happenings
So forgive me if I am not understanding this thread

[edlee]

I think this might be getting out of hand. How about they charge extra for the trouble we cause? But wait,,, they do,, but they spread it around so that the ABs have to help us pay for it.

How about the fat people who need two seats to accomodate their girth?? Do they have to pay extra? It's obviously a handicap, too,, as they all seem to have the parking tags just like us.

Personally,, I appreciate it when someone or some buisness tries to accomodate my needs,, and I go out of my way to use those who do, and avoid those who don't. Sometimes the odor of entitlement is a bit overwhelming in some of these threads.
ed