10 replies to this topic

[CrazyLucky]

Hello Everyone,

I have an incomplete injury and I'm looking for a better understanding of the differences between a complete and incomplete injury. My symptoms seem to be very inconsistent. I wake up one day and all (with cymbalta and lyrica) is fine. Other days, spasms, crazy neuro sensations, greater than usual unilateral foot drop, etc.

I am curious if these inconsistencies are typical of an incomplete injury or if it is common throughout all/most SCIs. Thanks to any responses. I'm just trying to dig a little deeper with my understanding of SCIs as they seem to be so different from case to case.

[Susi]

Hi there CrazyLucky
I am not to sure what you can/cannot do, as my injury is different to yours.
But throughout these past 6 years I have gone from total paralysis (3 months post injury) to partial paralysis. I can move independently, albeit not walking yet without assistance. I am improving almost on a daily basis especially the last 2 years.
I sometimes have bad days with spasms but nothing debilitating and impeding. they mostly come at night when relaxing with feet up and mainly in right leg, which is the weaker of the two, and I also have drop foot here. However I have been assured that when the achilles heel is strengthened this should improve as well as other muscles needed to improve drop foot.
I sometimes have spasms in left and right shoulder which affect the arms but again nothing impeding and mostly at night.
I would say (imo) that those symptons are consistent with an incomplete injury.
I have been able to control mine though through exercises.
Good Luck
Susi

[Angela250153]

crazylucky I am a T10/T11 incomplete due to a herniated disc damaging my spinal cord. I have patchy sensation from just below the waist down. I also have damage to the sciatic nerve due to a herniated disc at L5/S1. I can walk short distances with crutches.

I find that weather has a great influence on how well I can move around. Damp ie rainy weather and strong winds cause more tightening of the muscles, more spasms and pins and needles in my feet. Temperature is also a big factor. I do much better in Summer.

I am on 1200mg per day gabapentin, 50mg ametrypilin and in summer 50-60mg baclofen which I have to increase to 80-90mg in winter.

I have found that even the medical profession sometimes have a problem understanding incomplete paras/quads in particular the ones who are mobile. LOL

[CrazyLucky]

That's an interesting comment about the weather. It has gotten colder here over the past few weeks, and it has sucked!

[Tetracyclone]

Hi all.

I too suffer a lot with wet or cold weather. I have had to increase my baclofen 33% this winter and am really glad to hear from Angela that she can decrease again in the summer. Well documented in our threads is the fact that intestinal or bladder problems can cause a lot of spasticity.


I exersize on a bike and the longer I go the tighter my muscles become until after 20 to 30 minutes it is really difficult to move. Muscle tightness is what limits my movement and stamina. When I am in a good period I too seem to improve every week. It is exciting to hear from Susi that she continues to improve.

I walk short distances with canes or a walker, I can get up and down from the floor, and I love to work out on my floor mats. Strdtching is heavenly.

[Ches]

I dont think spasm can be sorted into complete vs incomplete catagories.

Lots of reading and logic tells me this.. spasms are just as unique as everyone's injury. Although you may think yours are worse it may simple be because you are incomplete and those muscles are still being worked, which makes them stronger, which keeps up the tone and with that your spasm seems much stronger. I know after a few days of therapy my legs are strong enough to throw me out of the chair but the frequency isnt any difference. Making sense?

The burning is pretty consistent for everyone too, whether complete or incomplete.. once again it seems to be other factors that influence the sensation.. from exercise to humid weather=swollen feet,.. from taking meds to coming off meds.. it all can be taking into consideration..

Unfortunately theres isn't a magic fix no matter what your injury. Its nerve damage, plain and simple. Only your body can decide if and when its going to heal or fix the problem.

I know a few non-sci's who have suffered other forms of trauma and they too have been left with permanent nerve damage, never to be the same again..

Good Luck!

[StillFingers]

Hey CrazyLucky,

Not sure I can add much to the discussion that hasn't already been said...your symptoms are all consistent with an incomplete SCI. After more than 3 decades of this SCI dance I still can't predict when/where or how long pain, stinging and spasms will occur.

I have found my intense...kick you out of bed...spasms less frequent in the last ten years and as Ches has said, spasms seem to increase after vigorous workouts; in the past, I've also noticed an increase in spasms and stinging after a long day at work... especially when putting in ten plus hour days. As others have noted, winter/cold weather sucks.

Some days are still pretty tough, most days get easier as time passes...you get use to the uncomfortableness, but it doesn't go away, enjoy the days you can, say , scream or cry when you need to...

Best wishes, hope things ease up for you.

Jerry

Edited by StillFingers, 27 November 2009 - 07:26 PM.

[rue2you]

I was wondering about this too because I have not had a dr. or anyone tell me if I am complete or incomplete. My therapist tells me I am more near a complete but not all the way - sounds silly doesn't it? From what I have read on here, I believe I am incomplete. I don't even know who in the medical field is even supposed to "classify" you! Anyway, although, I have no feeling and very little movement (after 2 months of therapy, I can move my right leg about 3 inches when there is no gravity working against it and my left leg even less). I can move my toes downward though and have been able to since day 1. But the pain level in my legs and lower back seems to change whenever it wants too!. I am miserable in cold weather. I don't know if it is because of poor circulation or what. Too me, it feels like when you have played in the snow and your hands get so cold they hurt real deep. That's how my legs and back feel. Oh well, who knows.

[Ches]

Yeah Rue it kinda reminds me of the way your feet feel going from cold tile into a hot bath, that initial thawing out feeling..

[knightrider]

Well if you can move your leg...simple you're incomplete. Most sci's are actually incomplete unless they've got a totally severed cord. Every injury is unique, and different to the next person who is injured at the same level etc.
Like me the first 3 months i couldn't feel a damn thing but as the months went by and into years i can now feel knocks and know where it is, on certain parts of my legs i can feel touch but not very strong, but it's patchy. I'm classed T6 complete but i have achieved up to T9 motor function on left side but T8 on the other. If i have got a bag of frozon peas for example on my legs i can feel it after a bit. But they class complete by ya asshole lol, if it don't wink, you're complete, thats how they class it, simple....pathetic....and damn right phuckin stupid but thats how they do it. So even tho i could be and should be incomplete and many of us are, well were not coz of our brown eyes hah.

Edited by knightrider, 27 November 2009 - 09:39 PM.

[CrazyLucky]

Thanks all. Just trying to make sense of all this as quickly as possible. Not opposed to learning from others. Why reinvent the wheel and all...

Long story short, I'm a clinician that works in open heart and ended up doing some cardiac education on a rehab unit that also housed the SCI patients rehabbing from their injuries. I asked the charge nurse if I could join one of their support groups to let newly injured patients know what it was like for me and possibly what to expect. I thought what she said was very interesting. She actually asked me to talk with her staff as well. She said that the hardest thing for the staff is that they truly want to understand what the patient is going through, but that there is simply no way that they can understand since they haven't been injured. I think this is something we could all relate to as recently as the day before injury.

I'm a clinician and I had NO idea this is what an SCI patient went through. I thought it was either you had feeling or you didn't and that was it. So I'm hopeful I can become a bit of translator between patients and clinicians since I've walked (pun intended I suppose) both sides of the fence.

It may seem amazing that clinicians seem baffled by this stuff, but the neurological system is so complicated and so little of it is truly understood that inevitably most of the clinicians involved are going to do their best to understand, but it may be a frustrating situation for both sides. Just something to keep in mind that really surprised me along the way.