18 replies to this topic

[SoliK]

I've posted on and off as a young woman who recently started a relationship with a T6 man. I know that every relationship is different and that any relationship regardless of what the circumstances are will have issues. Let me explain a bit of what's going on..Things were going so well at first...very romantic..very sweet...we connected on a very deep and spiritual level.. He was amazing. This past month however things have gotten stressful...

I think I mentioned once that he's had issues due to his ex leaving him for an abled bodied man and with our age difference. He got very distant this month and rarely called or talked with me. This broke my heart because I really like this man and want to keep dating him. He finally opened up and told me that he's afraid that because I'm young and abled bodied that I'm not going to be able to handle the issues that are present in a serious relationship with a person with SCI. I told him that I care so much about him that I don't care but he told that is what his ex told him and she left. He can't get past that pain and is convinced that I'm going to leave him, like she did. I kept telling him..I'm not her! But he said she was so unhappy in the marriage because of his SCI and doesn't want to go through that pain of losing someone he loves again. He doesn't want me to wake up one morning and regret being with him like his ex wife did. It's like he's already made up his mind that I'm going to do the same and nothing I say or do will change that.

He is also afraid that I'm going to become his caregiver someday and I'll resent him for that...he's afraid that I'm going to get disgusted with some of the things he has to do (bladder/bowel management) and of course there is the issue of intimacy (aside from some amazing kisses we have not gotten there yet). And then he also added that because he's older (he's in his early 50's..I'm in my late 30's) that he will have other health issues that come with age...oh and add "quirks" like moodiness. It felt like he just kept giving me one excuse after another. I told him to give me a little credit here! He says he likes me so much that he can't put me through all of this.. What he doesn't realize is how much he's breaking my heart by pushing me away.

I think someone in my earlier post (G-Bounce?) mentioned that this is not a wheelchair issue...it's something that is going on in his head. I agree. He does have a lot of self pity and he just can't let go of the pain that his ex put him through. But someone else told me he has to be willing to let go of the pain and move on... It's been 12 years since his divorce and he still can't let it go. She by the way...is now happily re-married. It's not his paralysis that is going to drive me away..it's his pessimistic attitude. I finally suggested maybe we should be friends for now but he didn't seem to like that idea and seemed really disappointed that I brought it up. What does he want?!
He wants so much to be loved but is so afraid. To make matters worse...I get a message yesterday that he's in the hospital with a horrible infection... So now I'm so worried about that. I don't know what to do.. At this point I want to be friends...but I still have that hope that things will work out. I guess I want to know if anyone else has experienced that fear or pessimism that is holding him back from finding happiness and gotten through it..? I still want that "happy ending" that I thought I was going to get when we first met. I don't know where that "confident," caring, risk taking man who asked me out in September went.

[Tetracyclone]

Solik,

I cant type today so short. Classic fear of intimacy. Probably drove away #1 and he concluded problem was SCI. He only had so much sweetness in the tank before you hit big time drama. most probable truth. Why not talk to the ex?

luck

[qbounce]

All's I can recommend at this juncture is to be there for him during this new problem. Visit him often at the hopsital and show him how this set back in his life isn't going to deter you from caring for and loving him.

If he STILL doesn't get it after this problematic pressure sore, then he never will and you should move on. But, this last chance just might be the ticket he needs to see how strong-willed you are, and how much you want to be with him!!!

Good luck.

[gordonr]

Pwuff, on Dec 4 2009, 06:57 PM, said:

I cant type today so short. Classic fear of intimacy. Probably drove away #1 and he concluded problem was SCI.

What I find somewhat bizarre, is that he waited 12 years. That is a long time to harbor a grudge.

Perhaps he was getting over it by sheer boredom with the theme, but as he started to get close to someone new, he woke up again and retreated onto his familiar terrain of abandonment and betrayal.

At least he has a comfort zone.

OK. Dr. G says: If he was going to get into another relation he would have done it 11 1/2 years ago.

Solik: He probably IS too old and beaten up for you. You can do better with a younger model. You are not running away from reality in doing this, because nobody knows what will happen to a young AB guy over the next fifty years or so. The statistical odds are that you will still get your chance to stand by your man (or to have your man stand by you) and unequivocally, you will definitely get the chance to stand by each other.

You obviously have a lot of love to share. You deserve better.

-Gordon

[lolapt2684]

Well My husband and I had very similar problems when we were dating. Things would be going great, then he would push me away. This happened more cycles than I would have liked, but I stood by him. I let him have a moment to have some self pity, then I would tell him that things wouldn't change unless he made the decision to do so. I think that through it all he saw how much I loved him. I was firm, but also very patient. This was not an easy issue for him to finally have to deal with after he had been injured for 10-12 years. And lets face it folks, dating is hard enough when you are "able bodied", but throw in a shy SCI and I can only imagine how hard it is. Give him some time. Stand by him, even if it is only as friends right now. Good luck!

[Maltese Cat]

Hi,

This may sound harsh, but bear with me here - i hope what i am saying makes sense by the end!

All relationships are a huge risk. It is impossible to say what you, or he, will feel about each other down the line. He needs to realise this though, because otherwise you run risks of making promises you are unable to keep. All you can really do now is say that you love him and want to be with him now. But you cannot necessarily guarantee that this will always be the case. Neither can he. And most importantly neither can anyone else. SCI is a huge thing for a sufferer to get used to, and it is also a huge thing for a partner to cope with.
As is a long distance relationship, falling in love with a penniless artist who can never afford the rent, dating someone who already has kids, dating someone in the forces and away at war, being called Juliet and falling in love with Romeo etc etc.

But just because all relationships have their difficulties does not mean that you should downplay the significance of SCI. Only by facing up to it, and all its ugliness can you properly accept it and come to terms with it. I started dating my boyfriend after his accident (although I had known him for a long time before it). I come from a medical background (I am a veterinary surgeon), so I thought I had a vague idea of what I was getting myself into. Of course, I had absolutely no idea. I was stunningly naive, and every day I realise there is more I did not know about. SCI is disgusting at times. It can make you, as a partner, feel inadequate, helpless, alone, exhausted, frustrated, angry. Quite early on in my relationship (about 6 months in, once the honeymoon period had worn off, and the first pressure sore had appeared), I found myself often panicking about whether I would be able to cope with it long term. I knew absolutely that I loved my boyfriend and wanted to be with him right now, but I would look into the future and see all the health issues, all the time alone, not being able to go off and do something that was impossible for him to join in on, or feeling guilty if I did, all the extra planning, and organisation, and complications that go with trying to go anywhere, or visit anyone, and I would think, why have I been so naive? Why have I made it harder for myself? What was I thinking? Will I be able to handle this years down the line? Will I have to leave him because I cannot handle SCI, and how would I ever get over the guilt of doing that if I did? These are all the thoughts that you will at some stage have thought or will think, and have to understand. They are the things that YOU need to come to terms with.

What I eventually realised was that all the negative factors related to SCI, (and I realise I have only give the negative ones here - there are still several positive ones, even if all you can think of at times is the parking!) once identified and understood, are irrelevant to the actual relationship. I am lucky enough to be with a man who understands me better than anyone I have ever met. He is able to tell what I'm thinking before I have even realised it myself, and knows how to cheer me up when i'm down and get excited by my successes. He looks after me, and protects me, and cares for me, and I love him completely. There are still the worries in the future. There are the pressure sores and UTIs that are yet to come, and there is the fear that as he is also older than me, that we will age at different rates. But there is also the future joy, the excitement when there are changes or improvements in his legs, the shared experiences to come, the getting to know each other more completely (and with every difficulty SCI throws up, we get to know each other a little better). There are all these things to look forward to. SCI is best taken one day at a time. If you spend you time with one foot in the future and one in the past, then you will end up weeing all over the present.

I was at my sister's wedding the other day, and the minister who took the service looked at my sister and her husband (both able-bodied) and told them that they were both completely mad. Mad to be committing themselves to each other for an entire lifetime. He went on to say that he looked back on the 40 years he had been married to his own wife, and how naive and mad they had both been when they got married. How mad, but how right they were, because in solitude lies safety, but in togetherness you actually risk joy. This is something for your boyfriend to get his head around. The relationship between him and you may one day come to an end. And that may be because of his SCI, or it may be because of the fact that he cannot get over your habit of picking your nose (sorry, just a random example!), or if he allows it to be, it may be because of his attitude, and insecurity, and inability to take that risk. That will be the same risk with anyone he, or anyone else, tries to date. It is up to him whether he wants to take that risk. It may all end in disaster, or he may risk actual joy. That is what HE needs to come to terms with.

I am sorry this has been something of an essay. What i wanted to say really is that yes, I really believe it is possible to find that happy ending, but there is no avoiding taking a huge risk. Hope this may help a little.

[SoliK]

Hello-
Thank you all for your responses. They have been helpful and will just take this one step at a time. Maltese Cat-that was not harsh at all. Thank you for sharing your experiences and insights. I found it very thought provoking and heart felt. They are things I have thought a lot about. I can read all about SCI and the issues that arise but I know that to actually experience it is another thing. I can say now that I would be fine dealing with the bladder/bowel management, pressure sores, and horrible muscle spasms that I know he gets...but I know that to experience it first hand will be eye opening. But I also know that I care so much about him...and I want to take that chance. I know there are no guarantees in life. This week, I found out that one of my friend's sons-who was healthy, successful, vibrant, happily married with 2 kids has a stage 4 brain tumor and suffered a stroke which has paralyzed him. He is only in his 30's..and his wife is now his primary caregiver, plus raise the kids. He's not expected to live long. We just never know what life throws at at us and we need to be prepared. I'm a spiritual person, so I've praying a lot about this and offering it up. As far as talking to his ex..I don't think that would be a good idea. For one, she is someone I used to work with (This was before I even met him...small world...I know) and to be honest, I didn't care for her much. At work she was cold and unapproachable and was not all that hospitable to me like my other co-workers.. I don't know why. So I think reaching out to her would not go over well. To tell you the truth, when I found out she was his ex, I was surprised. I just couldn't see it. He still talks to her on an a consistent because they have a child together. I know that interaction is not easy for him,
I know that I can't change him or take his fears away no matter who much I want to. If he can't get past his fear then there is no point in pursuing it at least in the romantic nature. The last thing I want to do is become overwhelming to him. I won't beg.. I shouldn't have to. He means the world to me, and I so much want him to find happiness..I can see it in his eyes. I won't rush him...and if he needs space and time then I'll give it to him..and if I'm meant to be just a good friend that he can talk to then I'll be that.
He is doing better. He's home now but he won't tell me the details of his infection... only that it's under control. I guess that is what is important.
Thanks again for the insights and advice...I appreciate it so much. Only time will tell I guess.
SoliK

Edited by SoliK, 06 December 2009 - 04:36 PM.

[Tetracyclone]

Maltese Cat,

Welcome and we are so lucky to have you. So much wisdom in one so young.

Takes me back to the I-Ching- "Great risk
great opportunity."

[gordonr]

Maltese Cat, on Dec 6 2009, 02:35 PM, said:

Hi,

All relationships are a huge risk. It is impossible to say what you, or he, will feel about each other down the line. He needs to realise this though, because otherwise you run risks of making promises you are unable to keep. All you can really do now is say that you love him and want to be with him now. But you cannot necessarily guarantee....

Hi Cat,

I beg to differ. I believe in true committment as the greatest creative and personal affirmation of self.

I tell my children that I will NEVER abandon them.

And I have made the same promess to my spouse.

In my view, we human beings are not merely leaves blowing in the wind. We have the capacity to positively say, "Yes, one year from today I will be in X-Y-Z or you will find my bones upon the way."

No ifs, ands or buts.

And I highly recommend this method of functionning because it makes the concentration and focus so much better. Instead of dithering and second guessing and pannicking at every little thing, you have, through your irrevocable choice, gained a clarity permitting you to put all of your energy towards taking care of business.

There are, of course, certain circumstances like cheating or addiction which make it very difficult to continue. But as long as neither partner IS cheating, then the rest is just the accidents of the road. A partner with SCI? So what. Almost everybody's life is going to involve as bad or worse begfore E-dog's fat lady finally staggers out on stage to sing.

Solik: I am intrigued. If your friend has a son in his thirties... just how old are YOU?

Best Regards,

Gordon

[Maltese Cat]

gordonr, on Dec 6 2009, 09:59 PM, said:

Maltese Cat, on Dec 6 2009, 02:35 PM, said:

Hi,

All relationships are a huge risk. It is impossible to say what you, or he, will feel about each other down the line. He needs to realise this though, because otherwise you run risks of making promises you are unable to keep. All you can really do now is say that you love him and want to be with him now. But you cannot necessarily guarantee....

Hi Cat,

I beg to differ. I believe in true committment as the greatest creative and personal affirmation of self.

I tell my children that I will NEVER abandon them.

And I have made the same promess to my spouse.

In my view, we human beings are not merely leaves blowing in the wind. We have the capacity to positively say, "Yes, one year from today I will be in X-Y-Z or you will find my bones upon the way."

No ifs, ands or buts.

And I highly recommend this method of functioning because it makes the concentration and focus so much better. Instead of dithering and second guessing and panicking at every little thing, you have, through your irrevocable choice, gained a clarity permitting you to put all of your energy towards taking care of business.

I totally agree with you Gordon, about the huge importance of commitment, to spouses, and most especially to children. However, Solik has only recently started this relationship. She and her new man are still in the getting to know each other stage, and her problems as I understand are related to whether she is going to be able to continue this relationship as she would like to.
Commitment is something that needs to be carefully considered before it can be entered into. If you make commitments without having had the opportunity to properly explore the significance of that commitment, then you risk breaking your promise and thus cheapening future ones. For some people it takes very little time to reach the stage when you know you are ready to make such a commitment, for others it takes longer.
I feel that Solik should not have to feel that she needs to be totally committed at this stage if she does not feel ready for it. It should be completely up to her when and if she decides she wants to commit to never leaving him, and she should not be made to feel guilty if she is still in the 'getting to know' stage, and he should not demand it of her. (i'm not trying to make assumptions, Solik, I do not know what kind of stage you are at, I'm just trying to explain myself!)
Much of the "my wife left me, so I am sure you will do the same" talk prompts an instinctive response of "of course I'm not going to do that." All that can acheive is empty promises that are more likely to be broken, and so of little use to anyone. It can effectively come accross as negative blackmail, as the more a person pushes someone away, telling them that they are sure to leave them eventually anyway, the more the pushed person wants to reassure the one pushing that that will not be the case, and so goes further in their promises to stay than they might otherwise feel comfortable with (Again, not trying to second guess what is going on for you S).
Hope that makes sense for you G?

[SoliK]

Gordon to answer your question....His son is a teenager...My bf is in his early 50's..I'm in my late 30's. His ex is his age.. They were 39 when their child was born. They broke up not long after. Very sad situation.. He's a good kid regardless of the situation..very sweet and loving.

gordonr, on Dec 6 2009, 09:59 PM, said:

Solik: I am intrigued. If your friend has a son in his thirties... just how old are YOU?

Best Regards,

Gordon

[gordonr]

SoliK, on Dec 7 2009, 12:12 AM, said:

Gordon to answer your question....His son is a teenager...My bf is in his early 50's..I'm in my late 30's. His ex is his age.. They were 39 when their child was born. They broke up not long after. Very sad situation.. He's a good kid regardless of the situation..very sweet and loving.

Solik,

That clarifies a lot. The age difference isn't all that great. And you are definitely old enough to know what you are up to.

One question I might ask is whether it is important to you to have your own kids?

Then you have to ask whether he is ready and willing to start with the diapers again. His SCI should not be an issue here, because if worst comes to worst, you can always adopt or do donor sperm. My point is, you only live once, and if you are going to have a family, and if you are going to be with him, then he has to be on side with the program.

In my own case, having the kids made some of the insecurity go away, because we were committing to more than just each other. Twenty years ago I was more worried about dying and leaving her alone, so with the kids, I felt better, saying to myself that she would not be alone, she would always have them.

Actually thats a good idea for anybody to get on with the babies. Although we don't like to think about it, somebody is always going to die, and the bigger the family the better you all can accept the loss of one.

Hope it works out as you want.

Gordon

[gordonr]

Cat,

I think the most important thing is to be honest with yourself about whether you are the kind of person who WANTS to commit. After all, many do not.

Once you know that, you can speak honestly with people about how they see life, and just cross off the ones who don't seem to be ready or willing.

But I believe in love at first sight, and all of this can go very quickly.

When there is a fit. There is a fit.

But however the timeframe, when you are telling each other how much you love each other and planning for a future, then it is time to talk about committment. And committment is not fashionable.

Perhaps that is because the fashionable people don't do it?

Also, especially for a woman it is essential to know whether or not the guy is willing to have kids. It is amazing how often a relationship drags on for a few years without getting around to definitely talking about this, and then when the woman's patience is exhausted, she does talk, and then finds out that the guy has no intention at all of satisfying her. What a waste of time and energy and emotional chaos.

In my case, about one year in, my wife just looked at me one day and said "Where are the kids".

And that was it. The gauntlet was laid down. A make or break moment. Got me off my ass and into the family way. And I never regretted a moment of it.

She perhaps regretted losing me as a party animal, but that is another story. Domestication is domestication. One kid in the house and your world is forever changed.

For the better.

Best Regards,

Gordon

[guido]

Gordon, you ol' romantic! You're the same as a good friend of mine who is convinced that marriage and kids are the best way and is always hinting that we should all do what he did! It has made him very happy indeed.

But if ANY girl got stuck in to me early on about kids and commitment I'd kick her out and make her pay for her own taxi!!! Agree with what you say about waste of time, but that's just the way it is. I've had my time wasted and I've doubtless wasted others time. But not believing that kids and family are the be all and end all, I don't consider any of my past fancies a waste of time.

But that doesn't meant I'll fight it forever, it just means I don't want to start out something with a contractual noose around my neck. I could make promises of kids, "waste" 2 years and then decide that there's no way in hell that i'd have a family with that one! Better to let a relationship grow between the 2 people and then see how it goes.

Don't watch the vid if you are easily offended: Eddie Murphy on Carson Divorce settlement. Very funny!!!

Edited by guido, 07 December 2009 - 06:28 PM.

[gordonr]

guido, on Dec 7 2009, 06:26 PM, said:

Better to let a relationship grow between the 2 people and then see how it goes.

Guido,

You are obviously a smart guy with some experience, so I can speak frankly to you.

(others reading this, of course, do so at their own risk: a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...)

Most people (I don't dare put a percentage on it, but they are the majority, and you know who they are) have no choice but to operate that way. That's just the way things are. Before you know it stuff is just happenning, and you spend most of your life responding to it. And with a little bit of luck everything will just work out. After all, we are the result of millions of years of evolution, and we wouldn't be here if there was some kind of big glitch in the reproduction algorithm, right?

However....

Over the last fifty years, way too short a time for evolution to catch up, we moved the goal posts with technology, and what was evolutionarily BOUND to happen to our grandparents, is not happenning to our children today. At least not in the same way.

Yes, you guessed it. Birth Control.

In the old days, boys and girls WOULD eventually slip beyond their parents power. They WOULD have "relations". The girls WOULD get pregnant. Most of social organization was designed to deal with these contingencies. Everybody knew what was the right thing to do, and there were severe penalties to not doing it. Essentially, if a girl was appropriately matched with a boy of her own social class and backgruond, and if that boy did not make an honest woman of her, his name would be mud for the rest of his life, and he would be lucky not to get shot. If a girl, on the other hand, had more than one boy, or tried to climb out of her class, she became disgraced and fair game for any sort of abuse. Period.

This was the Golden Age of sexual auto pilot. People just got hit: First with the hormones, then with the first kid, got married somewhere on the way, and that was that. Not a lot of deep thought.

But today, people do not get pregnant if they are paying attention, and if they do, they can (or at least the female can...beware the unilateral pregnancy, lads!) derail the default train of events with an abortion.

What an amaing change! That means, that young people are essentially like young dogs who have had their leashes removed. They can now run around wherever they want. Old social rules have become inapplicable, and the new and appropriate ones that will surely evolve are hidden now in the morass of trial and error.

Of course MOST people, do not do all that much running around even with the leash slipped. They are well mannered puppies who will behave pretty much the way a good dog should, even without the physical restraint. However, there is a smaller percentage, possibly the same deviant percentage who have ALWAYS flouted the old rules, who have quickly become aware of a whole new scope and a whole new veil of legitimacy which can be invoked to justify their activity. In other words, the little doggies who like to run, could run and run, come babies, hell, or high water. And in the new ethical nebula surrounding sexual experimentation, they could pretty well count on escaping the shotgun, the alter or the noose.

Now I hazard to guess, friend Guido (and I hasten to say this without prejudice, for after all, it does take one to know one) that you are prehaps one of those very doggies who love to run free, without the leash of convention, through the fields of sexual delight?

In this case, personal, in default of public, ethics, require that you take some heed of the simpler motivations and more limited understanding of the majority of those who in the natural course of things, will present themselves (literally falling accross your path as it were) as your potential playmates.

Apparently, even with birth control and abortion, something like ninety percent of the females in this generation wil eventually have at least one child. That bespeaks a powerful motivation. And it pretty well guarantees that the AVERAGE girl, if she starts in steady with you, will unconsciously expect you to knock her up and care for the offspring with her. And, she will be, over the course of a couple of years, increasingly nervous about that not happenning, EVEN IF she is not clearly aware of what the problem is.

Therefore, my advice is to keep your love affairs relatively brief. Don't stay with the comfortable ones too long just because they are comfortable. That is the kind which will suffer the most. Be brave. Enjoy with gusto. What is better than Pussy? Why NEW Pussy of course!

At least that was my motto.

A little later I will tell you af my moment of epiphanie when I had the glorious realization that what I needed was a real life, but that will have to wait, because, right now, those cute little waitresses dressed up in the nurse costumes are passing out the strained spinach and the jello. Duty calls.

Woof! Woof!

(sorry E, I hope that is not a copyright infraction)

Best,

Gordon

[SoliK]

Wow..my post has inspired some interesting conversation! Anyway thanks again.. I'm just taking it one day at a time and not rush him into anything. Last night I met a 93 year old man with Parkinsons..who is married to a 77 year old woman. (they've been married for years...how they met is so romantic and kind of reminds me of how I met my guy..) It's his second marriage and even though it's not always easy with his Parkinsons they are so much in love..and she said she's standing by him in sickness and health.. I told him my story and even though his speech is very soft he told me that nothing is impossible in true love...and that my guy would be a fool to let me go. It was so sweet.. I told him they gave me hope. Anyway, only time will tell.... If it's meant to be then it will happen..not matter what.. Thanks again for your thoughts and advice. SoliK

Edited by SoliK, 08 December 2009 - 04:29 PM.

[guido]

Hi SoliK - Good to hear you come back with upbeat news. Yes, time tells us most things!

Gordon - Hear what you're saying, though I think things are a little more complicated than that. In the end, it's about personality types and one can't generalise across them. Life just got more complicated and now people don't always know what they want or want what they know. On a personal level, I hear about my past fancies and their marriages, pregnancies, etc.. so I don't think I wrecked anyone else's life, and on a general level with greater choice (generally seen to be a good thing) came a whole load of unexpected difficulties and new issues.

Half of life is chance no matter how we tackle life love and relationships. I have lots of views on the matter and they mostly conflict. That said, I'm a lucky boy with a lovely girl and have been for some time now.

[gordonr]

guido, on Dec 8 2009, 04:56 PM, said:

Life just got more complicated and now people don't always know what they want or want what they know.

Guido, that's right. And they don't always want to know either.

Quote

On a personal level, I hear about my past fancies and their marriages, pregnancies, etc..

So, do you like check up on them during the day while their husbands are a work? Or just accidently run into them once every couple of years?

Quote

so I don't think I wrecked anyone else's life

Of course not. First of all, their children are better looking than their husbands have a right to expect. And as I recently heard it said in a movie, "The husband is better off having the wilfe in his bed moaning YOUR name, than in your bed moaning HIS".

Please. I am just kidding.

(But I bet you did put the high score on a lot of those machines out there.)

Not a bad thing. Gives the husband something to strive for.

It's a joke Guido. You are a nice guy.

Best Gordon

[guido]

gordonr, on Dec 10 2009, 04:31 PM, said:

Quote

On a personal level, I hear about my past fancies and their marriages, pregnancies, etc..

So, do you like check up on them during the day while their husbands are a work? Or just accidently run into them once every couple of years?

But I bet you did put the high score on a lot of those machines out there.

Haha, no serial stalking here: I mean, goddammit I'm not even on Facebook and that is DESIGNED for stalking!!

As for the rest, think I'd do best to take the compliments and say no more....