[sydneywheels]

Hello

I watched a short documentary last night on a New Zealand tv program for disabled people who are "inspiring".

The lady featured was about to become a Mum for the first time and was paralysed from the waist down. She also had both her legs amputated above the knee voluntarily within a year of her car accident...so she didn't have to "lumber her dead legs" around with her.

I recently broke my ankle pretty badly and have been stumbling around with my new sci injury and have pondered the additional difficulties of movement with dead legs.

I wouldn't be too fussed about losing them as it would seem to make life a hell of a lot easier!

My gf is against it because she says one day there may be a cure...I'm not so optimistic and aesthetically despite all muscle mass ameliorated since my injury, she likes the idea of me still having legs and feet...even if they are not functional.

Has anyone considered this? Would you consider losing your legs and feet for greater functionality?

Cheers

[guido]

Listen to your girl. She's no fool.

[Maltese Cat]

if you want to see what research is being done, take a look at the Miami project. or look up Professor Geoff Raisman. He thinks he's about a decade off making his research usable for SCI.

[mcferguson]

No way would I voluntarily amputate my legs!

[allis53ca]

i had bi-lateral above knee amp, voluntarily in february......for many reasons, the two main were mobility and circulation.......i've had NO regrets....my mobility improved to total independence and my circ improved too......i believe there will be sci treatments soon, but for new injuries not existing injuries, and not complete injuries.....

i did not ask the opinion of anyone able bodied for sure, nor anyone with an incomplete or low injury.........NO OFFENSE to your girlfriend, but as with most peeps their opinion is usually based more on aesthetics than function....i personally would not encourage anyone to do it, simply debate the pros/cons from my personal experience...i would however encourage you to NOT let other's (especially ab's) opinions influence your decision, no one else has to live in your body

[Tinbasher]

My legs are a bit like my family. I have lost touch with most of them but I'm still quite attached to them !

I do know paras who have had elective amputation but always for medical complications such as long term skin breakdown or suchlike.

Tin

[sydneywheels]

allis53ca, on Dec 9 2009, 11:09 PM, said:

i had bi-lateral above knee amp, voluntarily in february......for many reasons, the two main were mobility and circulation.......i've had NO regrets....my mobility improved to total independence and my circ improved too......i believe there will be sci treatments soon, but for new injuries not existing injuries, and not complete injuries.....

i did not ask the opinion of anyone able bodied for sure, nor anyone with an incomplete or low injury.........NO OFFENSE to your girlfriend, but as with most peeps their opinion is usually based more on aesthetics than function....i personally would not encourage anyone to do it, simply debate the pros/cons from my personal experience...i would however encourage you to NOT let other's (especially ab's) opinions influence your decision, no one else has to live in your body

Thanks Allis

Good to get your perspective. I'm going to give it some serious thought.

[JesseB]

Wouldn't amputation of the legs make it harder to transfer?

I rely on my legs alot for balence, even though they dont work. Just a thought..

[Trinity]

JesseB, on Dec 10 2009, 08:01 PM, said:

Wouldn't amputation of the legs make it harder to transfer?

I rely on my legs alot for balence, even though they dont work. Just a thought..

I'm with Jesse on this one, I would have thought that it would cause a lot of balance issues, I would be interested to hear if this is the case.

[FROG]

I would only consider amputation for health reasons (circulation, infection etc.) Though my legs may not work, they provide ballast and anchor for a pivot point when transfering. I would think they also help with balance issues. Also,this might sound like vanity, but I already struggle enough with my self image being in the chair and with all of the other junk that comes with SCI. I see amputation as another obstacle in my struggle toward building more self confidence as I interface with a culture that seeks physical perfection and sees disability as weakness and less than adequate . I wouldn't even think about amputation unless it would have promise of increasing my chance at having a healthier and longer life.

This post has been edited by FROG: 11 December 2009 - 12:21 AM

[allis53ca]

no..it improved my balance by putting my cg below me...especially for transfers...and left less to transfer....instead of side trans to bed/couch/car/etc, i now pull up to whatever head on...then i can turn 180 in my chair and scoot backwards onto surface, w/o legs to catch, twist, tangle or trip person helping me if i need it...i can turn 360 on a couch or in a chair or bed....sans legrests, my chair turn radius was reduced greatly and ground clearnce improved also ...i can get closer to doors, counters, etc also.........accessibility is better across the board (FOR ME)

[gordonr]

very interesting

[MrBump]

liposuction on my gut.....................
maybe cut off my balls too !

[allis53ca]

do you have a point ?

[Ratticis]

So the "inspiring" part was that retarded people can have kids too? No offence, but for me that would be a horrible idea. I use my legs, maybe not to walk, but definitly for balance. Besides, with my luck, a week after they lopped them off there would be some miricle breakthrough. If you do decide to do it though, save the legs and sell them on e-bay. Or make a lamp!

[Tetracyclone]

allis53ca, on Dec 13 2009, 12:01 AM, said:

do you have a point ?

bumps point is surely that things would be better if his balls were cut off.
Perhaps if you knew him it would all make sense.

[wheeels]

I'm an incomplete so I would not do it, but I think that if I was complete I would seriously consider it.

The loss of the dead weight and the improved mobility would be a huge plus, I have a Friend that is a bilateral above the knee amp and watching him move around is very impressive.

The negatives would be the recovery time and the unknown risks of having it done with a SCI.

Heck I know one guy that was an barely an incomplete and due to extreme spasms and other issues opted to become a complete with surgery and has not regretted it.

[allis53ca]

i could see where recovery could be a prob if you had some current health issues...i did mine when i was in good shape and had an easy go...i was in hosp 52 hours, my neighbors didn't even realize i'd left town and had sutures out and was released by doc 21 days later...i was lucky, i had surg friday a.m. and ate dinner at home sun nite..was groc shopping monday nite...i'd hate to have done it while fighting other health issues, or if i'd had to stay in hosp for week or two..that'd not been fun or easy

[allis53ca]

i didn't keep my legs (tempting but freezer too small) however i did donate them to vascular dept at med school since 99% of what they get is cadaver and mine were "fresh meat"

[kim wright]

i am t12 and short. 4ft 11

i would never choose to lose my legs .
they are a pain sometimes dragging them to transfer , they do not reach the floor . but would not like to lose them .

[Merrill]

Last month my right foot slipped off the wheelchair without my knowing, 3,000 yards latter still on the road surface someone brought it to my attention. At the emergency ward it was decided to amputate two toes. From what had happened I should have lost the whole foot. Sure I do not miss the use of the toes but they ARE missed when I look at my foot.

This post has been edited by Merrill: 15 December 2009 - 02:03 AM

[qbounce]

I met a guy in the flap surgery ward at a well known SCI rehab hospital. He was in his 60's, and the nurses all affectionately called him Papa, because he was so well known there due to his multiple surgeries from pressure sores.

To make a long story short, he used the skin and muscle from his legs to help cover what was ultimately a pretty torn up bottom. He said he drank and smoked to much when he was younger, so had paid the price with his legs.

Something else to consider keeping them for. You never know when they might come in handy.

[Ratticis]

Never know when you could end up stranded somewhere and hafta eat them!

[pistol_pete]

Too true Ratticis.
And think of the practical uses, like using them as a handy knife block, or somewhere to safely store other sharp objects.

[TjTheQuad]

How could a quad do this? the ankles/feet create a re-enforcement when in chairs. if your legs are missing by the knee (figurely speaking) then what counter balances will you gain if leant to far forward.

[allis53ca]

Tj, you make a good point...and although it was one of my concerns before surgery, it hasn't been an issue..i think mostly because, with an sci, we've already adapted in so many ways that it becomes second nature...my biggest cg issue has actually been leaning "back"...my pc and mc both tilt back easier now, so i put a counter weight under the front of my seats

[McTavish]

Where I go my legs go with me, thanks very much, anyway I have a thing for shoes.

[ctextucker]

I have seen this site before when researching other topics and while doing same today felt like actually joining and making comment. I have been doing allot of thinking about this lately, after 34 years in wheelchair have been considering it after recent issues with sores on bottom of feet. Dr suggested I give it some thought especially after a fall 5 years ago broke L knee and it does not completely straighten. I have all most all of the feelings stated above...

Especially dealing with others "perceptions" already, fighting my way in a typical corporate world, I already deal with issues and think it is one more perception issue to fight. I am definitely not "newbie" to chair - I have always had attitude I am the same just have to sometimes get from A to B a different way. Extremely tough decision to make the "step" toward being dramatically different in eyes of my kids, wife, friends and coworkers.

This discussion certainly helps me feel not alone in that decision.

I would like to applaud everyone straight forward comments!

[qbounce]

ctextucker, on Jan 17 2010, 12:41 PM, said:

I have seen this site before when researching other topics and while doing same today felt like actually joining and making comment. I have been doing allot of thinking about this lately, after 34 years in wheelchair have been considering it after recent issues with sores on bottom of feet. Dr suggested I give it some thought especially after a fall 5 years ago broke L knee and it does not completely straighten. I have all most all of the feelings stated above...

Especially dealing with others "perceptions" already, fighting my way in a typical corporate world, I already deal with issues and think it is one more perception issue to fight. I am definitely not "newbie" to chair - I have always had attitude I am the same just have to sometimes get from A to B a different way. Extremely tough decision to make the "step" toward being dramatically different in eyes of my kids, wife, friends and coworkers.

This discussion certainly helps me feel not alone in that decision.

I would like to applaud everyone straight forward comments!

Hi ctetucker, and thanks for finally joining in the discusions.

Regarding the sores on the bottom of your feet: if they're located on the balls of your feet, before lopping off your legs, you could look into cutting your achiles tendons. This alleviates your foot drop and allows the pressure to rest evenly on the foot plate. Something the owner of this wonderful site, Simon had done. And now, I'm contemplating the same procedure some time in the future.

[hooplady]

As usual, whatever questions I have are usually already answered for me somewhere on this site!

My b/f is struggling with this issue right now. He's almost 2 yrs post-injury and has had constant skin/wound issues with his feet and ankles. He gave up on shoes, or even soft slippers, a long time ago...most of the time he's just wearing bandages and a soft wrap. If he stays in bed, he gets them on his heels. If he wears the foam boots to protect the heels, he gets them where the straps cross. If he's in his chair, one ankle rolls into the frame and presses; the other foot twists, in spite of the newly prescribed brace, and he has one continuously on the metatarsal. And all this is in addition to the normal bumps and scrapes he gets just moving around.

A couple of the older injuries have finally gotten infected, so at the very least he's going to lose a couple of toes. He consulted today with a surgeon who advised him to consider bilateral amputation mid-shin.

I must admit, for some reason having things lopped off does freak me out. I don't know why exactly, because we've adjusted to so much already. I mean, what's a couple pounds of meat and bone really, if it will improve the overall quality of his life?

I believe he may pursue the tendon-cutting option first and see if that alleviates one or two of the problem spots.

Again, I'm so grateful that there are people who have already gone through this and are willing to share their experiences and opinions.