[Martha]

I don't know if this is the right place for me to post. Here is my story...

My husband collapsed in our bathroom in October. I was away at the time. He layed on the floor for 4 days with an injury to his neck at C5 and 6. When my sister found him, he was miraculously lucid. The doctors could not explain how he had survived for 4 days in the position he was in. Mostly because clots never travelled and because they didnt think he should have had lung function. He had always told me that if what happened to Christopher Reeve happened to him that he would not want to live. How ironic that he ended up with the exact same injury. He was intubated at the hospital, so when I finally got to see him I couldnt talk to him. About 3 days later they decided to pull the tube because he was breathing well. He was off for a day. That day he told me that he didnt want to live. I struggled terribly with that. I couldnt accept it. The next day he was back on the tube. Something very profound happened to him when he was laying on the floor for 4 days. He believed he was going to die, and had accepted it. He was in the hospital for a week and a half in the trauma unit. His wishes were to have the tube removed and no extraordinary measures continue to be taken. After the tube was removed he died 45 minutes later with me by his side.

I have dreams that he can move, and he can stand. I know it was his decision, and I know that he would not have had the attitude to work to gain the minimal control that they thought he would have a small chance at. I miss him terribly, but I feel blessed for the time we had together. I just wanted to share my story... the shock and pain of realizing that he would be a quadriplegic for like was excruciating. He died peacefully. He was 40. Thank you for reading.

[ClaraTaylor]

Thank you for telling us your story. I hope you find this place of use.

[Martha]

I was reading over my post and realizing how 'matter of fact' I sound. That's not how I feel. I remember the day in the hospital when I saw him for the first time. I told the nurse that I thought he was freaking out because he thinks he is paralyzed. She looked at me like "well, duh! he is!" The pain of that realization staring us in the face was unbearable. Pure emotional anguish. I don't know if he saved us both from a lifetime of pain and anguish, or if he robbed us of something beautiful. I guess Im here to read what its like for people who have struggled to live through this.

[DaveP]

Martha - you're story is special. I totally understand and respect, and even admire what your husband did. He made his decision for his own reasons and that's what's important. He lived his life, and made his decision when it was enough.

Many will disagree, but each to their own and each must live with their own decision.

For you, all I can say is remember and honour the guy with happy thoughts. When you're feeling down, ask youself what he would say. No doubt, he'd give you a kick up the arse and tell you to stop crying, so honour and respect him by doing what he would expect you to do in these times. That's the rules I've applied when my loved ones died - what would they expect me to do, then do it, no questions asked.

It won't be long and you won't remember much about these sad and times. Your brain will filter out all this shit and you'll only have the happy, funny, mad times to left in your memory bank.

A big pat on your back for telling your story, so honestly and bluntly.

This post has been edited by DaveP: 13 December 2009 - 11:38 PM

[Martha]

Good advice Dave. I don't know how it will be viewed by people here.... I know that I was willing to devote our lives to fighting. Maybe its naive, but I thought through love and God we could do it. My family struggled with my acceptance of his wishes, but ultimately what it came down to was that I thought about what I would want if I was put in a helpless situation without use of my hands and legs. I would want the one person who knew me best to understand and listen to me and do for me what I couldnt do for myself. My family and our friends support the decision.

I should add another piece to this story.... he was on our bathroom floor for 4 days. During that time he was completely aware and he fought like crazy to live. This is a man who was very rational and believed in only things that he saw for himself. He told me that he saw God and that God touched him and told him that he was to stay alive for us so he could tell me himself that he wasnt afraid to die... and he wasn't. He said that he was close and that it was so beautiful, and that if I saw what he saw I would never be afraid.

I hope this is ok to post here. Everyone has their own journey... this is just mine.

[Dovepetal+Oskar]

Martha, on Dec 14 2009, 12:55 AM, said:

Good advice Dave. I don't know how it will be viewed by people here.... I know that I was willing to devote our lives to fighting. Maybe its naive, but I thought through love and God we could do it. My family struggled with my acceptance of his wishes, but ultimately what it came down to was that I thought about what I would want if I was put in a helpless situation without use of my hands and legs. I would want the one person who knew me best to understand and listen to me and do for me what I couldnt do for myself. My family and our friends support the decision.

I should add another piece to this story.... he was on our bathroom floor for 4 days. During that time he was completely aware and he fought like crazy to live. This is a man who was very rational and believed in only things that he saw for himself. He told me that he saw God and that God touched him and told him that he was to stay alive for us so he could tell me himself that he wasnt afraid to die... and he wasn't. He said that he was close and that it was so beautiful, and that if I saw what he saw I would never be afraid.

I hope this is ok to post here. Everyone has their own journey... this is just mine.

Thank you for telling your heart-tearing story Martha. Sending you a big hug.
He is eternal love.

[Tetracyclone]

you and your husband have given us all a gift.

[Martha]

I wish that I could contribute further to a lot of these posts on here, but I realize that this lace is probably not the right place for me. It makes me question and I cannot question the decision that was made because, ultimately as a friend reminded me today, the decision was not mine to make. I guess I just wish that he was still here. Maybe it's selfish, maybe not, but the answers aren't here.

I can say that I really do wish that he had given it a shot. I wonder if everyone goes through the phase of not wanting to live, and if everyone gets over that phase. Knowing my husband, it would have taken him a long time to get over the "I don't want to live this way" phase. I respect and love him no matter his decision, but I do want to say to anyone who is just beginning this process that from a carer's perspective.... please don't make that decision for the person willing to care for you. It is likely that they would pay whatever price there is to have you in their lives for as long as medicine will allow. I would have been there because I loved him so much. I wish Joe was with me, and all the work and suffering that would have come with it would have been worth it just to have him here to share a little more life with me.

[DaveP]

Martha, on Dec 16 2009, 02:51 AM, said:

I wish that I could contribute further to a lot of these posts on here, but I realize that this lace is probably not the right place for me. It makes me question and I cannot question the decision that was made because, ultimately as a friend reminded me today, the decision was not mine to make. I guess I just wish that he was still here. Maybe it's selfish, maybe not, but the answers aren't here.

I can say that I really do wish that he had given it a shot. I wonder if everyone goes through the phase of not wanting to live, and if everyone gets over that phase. Knowing my husband, it would have taken him a long time to get over the "I don't want to live this way" phase. I respect and love him no matter his decision, but I do want to say to anyone who is just beginning this process that from a carer's perspective.... please don't make that decision for the person willing to care for you. It is likely that they would pay whatever price there is to have you in their lives for as long as medicine will allow. I would have been there because I loved him so much. I wish Joe was with me, and all the work and suffering that would have come with it would have been worth it just to have him here to share a little more life with me.

Remember - when you're having these low moments and questioning things, ask yourself what your Joe would say to you... And that's the answer to your questions. Simple as that.

Remember all the good times and don't let the very few and short bad times overtake the good memories. Laugh and smile at the things you guys did together and feel good for it - not guilty.

[Tetracyclone]

Martha.

I cannot type well enough right now, but in a few weeks I will PM you.

[qbounce]

Wow, what a story. I hasten to say how many others here felt the same as your husband felt when, at that crossroad, they chose to live instead.

4 days laying on the floor alone in your newly paralyzed, lifeless body is enough to make anyone feel the way he did. It is to bad though, that you'll never know what the outcome could have been had he chosen the other path.

Thank you for sharing.

[Amyxr22]

Hi Martha,

I am so very sorry for your loss and am not sure if anything I have to say wil help, but I sure hope so.... I am a relatively new spinal cord injured person...I'm 48, a single mom, and (was) a police officer. When my accident happened, all I could think about was what was going to happen to my son..how can I be a proper mom to him? How can I support us? I was so scared...like never before in my life. When I got home from the hospital and was able to walk, thing should have been better in my head...but they weren't. I was drawn into a place I wish to never go again. I would lay in bed, worried about everything, all alone, and contemplate how I could kill myself. Realizing that my son would be lost without me, I then thought of killing him, then me, then setting the house on fire so someone would find us. Discusting, right??? I realized I had to live...for him. With the help of my therapist and a group of great friends, today I am ok.

But that was MY decision. I feel I still have something to offer to the people I love and who love me. Ok, so I walk funny and may someday need a chair, can't do the things that I use to....there are still things I can do....there is still HOPE. I imagine your husband contemplated so many issues as he lay on the floor. I imagine he was a rather proud man. That's important...I can imagine he felt he had nothing to offer, I imagine he thought of the burden his condition would place on you. HE LOVED YOU. His decision was one that would offer freedom to you both....you are still so young. Like DaveP said, honor him with rememberance of all the good times. Be very proud of him...his decision wasn't made without great consideration, that I guarantee.

I hope this helps a bit and I know that with time, things will be easier for you.

Hugs,
Amy

[Martha]

Amy, Thank you so much for sharing your very personal and painful TRUE feelings. Life changing events like what you and my husband went through can only truly be felt fully by you and those who love you. I appreciate you reaching out to tell your story. Thank you... and yes everything you said helps.

Qbounce, when my sister found my husband lying on the floor, he must have been dreaming or something. He said to her: "Katie, what am I hanging from?" It breaks my heart to think about that every time because what he went through is just unimaginable to me.

Pwuff, I look forward to hearing from you when you can respond... thanks.

[Amyxr22]

It's ok Martha...I'm really glad it helps a bit. I guess everyone goes through things differently and it's important to hear from others. I lost my dad 3 years ago and it was the most horrible day of my life. He was my best friend, and my son's best "buddy". We got through it. I think of him each and every day, sometimes I dream about him and honestly...I love those dreams. I cry when I need to, but find that laughter is the best medicine--besides, he hated it when I cried, it made him sad. He wll always be with me, and Joe will always be with you...but that doesn't mean you get stuck in what has happened....you move forward, without guilt, without a heavy heart......at your own pace....do that for you and for Joe and know that there are people who care about you

Very Sincerely,

Amy

[gordonr]

I feel tht this exchange highlights the fact that survivors struggle more with loss in case of suicde than they do when the loved one is unambiguously taken.

Far from unburdenning a loved one, suicide weighs the loved one down with doubt. Myself, on those days when I feel that I might have had enough, I think of the effect on my children and spouse. And the mood passes.

Martha, I wish you all he best in coming to terms with your loss. It is not something that YOU chose, it is something that events and your husband forced upon you. You are blameless. Just allow the time to pass and your heart to heal. It will. And it will.

By all means stick around with us for a while. You will see that hard times can be beaten. I encourage you to make exactly the opposite choice to that of your husand: Have faith that life is worth living, and have the patience to reap the fruit of your faith.

All the Best,

Gordon

Amyxr22, on Dec 16 2009, 05:40 PM, said:

Hi Martha,

I am so very sorry for your loss and am not sure if anything I have to say wil help, but I sure hope so.... I am a relatively new spinal cord injured person...I'm 48, a single mom, and (was) a police officer. When my accident happened, all I could think about was what was going to happen to my son..how can I be a proper mom to him? How can I support us? I was so scared...like never before in my life. When I got home from the hospital and was able to walk, thing should have been better in my head...but they weren't. I was drawn into a place I wish to never go again. I would lay in bed, worried about everything, all alone, and contemplate how I could kill myself. Realizing that my son would be lost without me, I then thought of killing him, then me, then setting the house on fire so someone would find us. Discusting, right??? I realized I had to live...for him. With the help of my therapist and a group of great friends, today I am ok.

But that was MY decision. I feel I still have something to offer to the people I love and who love me. Ok, so I walk funny and may someday need a chair, can't do the things that I use to....there are still things I can do....there is still HOPE. I imagine your husband contemplated so many issues as he lay on the floor. I imagine he was a rather proud man. That's important...I can imagine he felt he had nothing to offer, I imagine he thought of the burden his condition would place on you. HE LOVED YOU. His decision was one that would offer freedom to you both....you are still so young. Like DaveP said, honor him with rememberance of all the good times. Be very proud of him...his decision wasn't made without great consideration, that I guarantee.

I hope this helps a bit and I know that with time, things will be easier for you.

Hugs,
Amy

Amy,

I'm sure you realize now, that only the most outrageous egotism could convince a parent that one of their children would be better off dead rather than left without you. So, if it comes to that, if someone is going to kill themselves, at least they should have the humilty to kill only themselves.

But I think it is also obvious that any suicide kills a part of all of those who are left behind.

So it's really great that you were able to pull through those dark days.

-G

[Amyxr22]

Hi Gordon....

I agree with a lot of the things you've said, but maybe I need to clarify (like I said, everyone's experiences are different and reactions to those are too I guess). My dad committed suicide after dealing with a long illness. I am a crisis/hostage negotiator for our department...well I was...I dealt with suicidal people several times a year, couldn't stop my dad. ok, so let's move on cause s*** happens.

As I contemplated my own life/death, I realized that without me, my son has nobody and that I would have totally screwed him up if I left him behind....believe it or not, at that time, I really thought by taking him first I would be helping him.....I GOT HELP!!!! because I know that it isn't the right way to think....honestly, I wasn't trying to be egotistical or selfish....that was the last thing on my mind at the time. I know that many people feel that suicide is a selfish cop-out.....my training and my personal experience tell me that isn't always so.

Take care,

Amy

[gordonr]

Amyxr22, on Dec 18 2009, 01:15 AM, said:

As I contemplated my own life/death, I realized that without me, my son has nobody and that I would have totally screwed him up if I left him behind
I GOT HELP!!!! because I know that it isn't the right way to think....
honestly, I wasn't trying to be egotistical or selfish....

Amy,

I think egotistical is the wrong word. Sorry. But there is a problem with the boundry between oneself and the rest of the world.

We say, My house, my car, my family, my kids, my husband... as if these things were really part of ourselves, and in the worst case, just extensions of ourselves. In this view, if we are to die, why not kill everybody else and burn down the house? Ancient kings and noblemen did that sort of thing all the time.

Leaving someone behind may well screw them up, but at least it allows them to continue their independant existence.

Suicide, according to some, is a communicable disease. At least it certainly is the case that suicides tend to clump together.

Believe me. I do not judge you. On the contrary, I am impressed with the way that you are holding the line.

Best,

Gordon

[Amyxr22]

Thanks Gordon

Amy

by the way...I WAS gonna kill everybody and burn down the house!!! (just trying to lighten things up a bit)

This injury has really made me focus on what in my life is important to me....my son, my friends, and the fact that despite some challenges, I'm still me and grateful to be....it took me some time initially to "get" that....I guess that's all I was saying.

Have a really great night.

[snowqueeneh]

Hi Martha,

Your experience has really been on my mind a lot. When Pauls injury happend I wondered if he would have been better off dead. It's really a hard thing to deal with no matter what decisions are made.

I just wanted to say that I'm sure the fact that your husband was on the floor for 4 days had an impact on his final decision. Paul was rushed to the hospital and sedated... no time to think.

I'm sure your husband knew you would have done anything for him! Whether he realized it or not... I feel his decision was more about his sanity and mental state being altered and not so much the physical. As hard as the physical part is for my husband (Paul)... it's really the mind that matters. I truly believe your husband was satisfied enough with his life to let go. I think he knew that mentally he would not be the same and he wanted you to remember your love for eachother. He didn't want to see the two of you slowly grow apart. Sometimes it's better to burn out than to fade away.

I wish you all the best.

[gordonr]

snowqueeneh, on Dec 18 2009, 03:37 PM, said:

he knew that mentally he would not be the same and he wanted you to remember your love for eachother. He didn't want to see the two of you slowly grow apart. Sometimes it's better to burn out than to fade away.

Queen,

In the end, survival is not about human relationships. It has to do with a personal relationship, not to a wife/partner/child, but to the whole of existence. Personal relationships come and go, but life goes on.

Many of us have grown apart from the partners we had when we were hurt. In my case it took five years to grow definitively apart. And that was twenty five years ago. However compelling that relationship was at the time, and it was truly compelling, I now have little or no feeling one way or another for that past phase of my life. So, the survival of the person in ICU is not at all about his/her significant other.

What it comes down to is whether or not the person wants to live, without reference to anybody else. Some do, Some don't. Many don't to begin with, but learn to again, as time goes by.

And it may be a life without any connection to the people who are close to them now.

This is not to trivialize the loss of the significant other. But a little perspective may be in order.

At the risk of being a bit difficult, here, this reminds me of a conversation I had recently with a WWII vet. I mentionned the problems in my family resulting from the men we lost, particularly for my grandmother, and I made the usual observation that war was perhaps worst for those left behind. But my companion came back with a very lively denial. No, he said. Those families lost sons and brothers and husbands, true, but those young men lost their LIVES, and that, as he said, is the greater loss.

Best Regards,

Gordon

[SandieT]

Martha, on Dec 13 2009, 10:08 PM, said:

I don't know if this is the right place for me to post. Here is my story...

My husband collapsed in our bathroom in October. I was away at the time. He layed on the floor for 4 days with an injury to his neck at C5 and 6. When my sister found him, he was miraculously lucid. The doctors could not explain how he had survived for 4 days in the position he was in. Mostly because clots never travelled and because they didnt think he should have had lung function. He had always told me that if what happened to Christopher Reeve happened to him that he would not want to live. How ironic that he ended up with the exact same injury. He was intubated at the hospital, so when I finally got to see him I couldnt talk to him. About 3 days later they decided to pull the tube because he was breathing well. He was off for a day. That day he told me that he didnt want to live. I struggled terribly with that. I couldnt accept it. The next day he was back on the tube. Something very profound happened to him when he was laying on the floor for 4 days. He believed he was going to die, and had accepted it. He was in the hospital for a week and a half in the trauma unit. His wishes were to have the tube removed and no extraordinary measures continue to be taken. After the tube was removed he died 45 minutes later with me by his side.

I have dreams that he can move, and he can stand. I know it was his decision, and I know that he would not have had the attitude to work to gain the minimal control that they thought he would have a small chance at. I miss him terribly, but I feel blessed for the time we had together. I just wanted to share my story... the shock and pain of realizing that he would be a quadriplegic for like was excruciating. He died peacefully. He was 40. Thank you for reading.

Hi Martha
I have only recently come across this web site in the last week even though my son was injured nearly 2 years ago, and I kept coming back 'your story.' My heart goes out to you and you are in my thoughts, and thought I would share my story with you.
My son suffered horrific internal injuries, in an accident going to work and spent 6 weeks in ICU and 7 mths in hosp/rehab. (We were told it would be 9-18mths) - He is T5 complete. It was touch and go as to weather he pulled through in the first few weeks. Thankfully he did. During his time in ICU several times he told me he didn't want to carry on and couldn't see the point if this is how life was going to be (Im not actually sure if he remembers telling me this as he was very heavily sedated for most of this time.) I was shocked and horrified that he could think that, that was not my son and he also had a wonderful baby son who he adored.

Eventually he started to improve + transferred to rehab, the same week as arriving in rehab another young man arrived in the bed next to my son. They become friends, along with 2 other young men of similar age. The other 2 guys left rehab at the start of the month, and my son at the end of the month last summer. 3 weeks after my son got home his friend (I'll call him John (that wasn't his name) committed suicide whilst still in rehab. It was as if he couldn't carry on without the other 3, as he really had come along way in those 7 months. I was so upset, and I cannot imagine how my son feels, - he doesn't want to talk about it.
It haunted me for months afterwards, and when I knew that my son was home on his own if his girlfriend was out and his young son was staying with us. I would try and find excuses to phone or txt him, and if he didn't answer or reply it was as much as I could do to stop myself jumping in the car to see if he was ok.
What I am trying to say is everyone's stories are different. Some people decide to fight to stay alive and carry on regardless of their quality of life in the future, and others like your wonderful husband decide that is not for them. Your husband fought for 4 days to stay alive and was able to tell you his wishes, and as you say he died peacefully with you by his side. You respected his wishes, and that makes you an amazing wife and human being, just hang onto all the good times and wonderful memories of him.
I wish you well, and I think your story will stay with me forever.

Sandie