32 replies to this topic

[ClaraTaylor]

I used to go to London regularly but that was when I was on crutches and so able to use The Tube freely.

Now that my mobility has decreased (though from down here you do get a nice view of mens rumps) I'm guessing that London wont be so easy to navigate.

My chair is still on L plates and to be honest with you - I think I still need stabilisers (kerbs don't like me) or at least a grab handle for friends to retrieve me from ditches / hedges / pot holes. So I know it's going to be a struggle and I'll probably have to give up and retreat to the nearest pub for rests and drinks (oh the horrors) to rest.

Just how hard is London to get around? How easy are the buses to get on and off?

I want to go and see Avenue Q and visit the science museum.

[Lucydog]

Cant answer the question but I want to know the answer as well. Im planning to visit a friend once the weather improves and have to admit I have never used public transport since using a chair. A terrible admission I know!

[dangerousdave]

Having been born in the best city in the world and with many excelant memories as a bi-ped
Wouldn't go back there for all the monies in the world
It's not just the most unfriendless wheelie place
It's the most horrendous
The city just refuses point blank to accomidate us no matter what the disability act says
I'd much rather go to Dallas, San Fran, Barcelona, Swiss city on a lake, etc
To be in Frisco and jump on a train, tube or bus at any time
In London you have to set up a road block to get a bus, blow a hole in the ground to get on a tube, navigate steps and gaps to get on a train, put up with pubs that have no toilets, guest houses that have rooms plus a flight of stairs
I could go on .. so how do you wheelies live there .. you don't do you .. you exist there
Roll on April and the party sceen .. I'm feeling mad again

Edited by dangerousdave, 03 January 2010 - 04:23 PM.

[ClaraTaylor]

Oh

Poop.

[StillFingers]

ClaraTaylor, on Jan 3 2010, 08:34 AM, said:

Oh

Poop.

Ditto Clara. I'm hoping to visit the UK in 2012 or soon after and London is on my to do list...

[ClaraTaylor]

StillFingers, on Jan 3 2010, 04:49 PM, said:

ClaraTaylor, on Jan 3 2010, 08:34 AM, said:

Oh

Poop.

Ditto Clara. I'm hoping to visit the UK in 2012 or soon after and London is on my to do list...

I shall keep my fingers crossed that perhaps in 2012 what with Olympics and such like they might have improved a little for you!

[SandieT]

Had to do a brief overnight stay there back in August with my son and his girlfriend. Stayed in a travel lodge in Drury Lane + took a stroll up to Oxford Street + back, although we didn't use any public transport, everytime we came to cross a road junction/side street, whilst all the traffic whizzed past us a break neck speed. Every single black cab driver, stopped and called my son across. It didn't happen once or twice it must have happened at least a dozen times or more. So hurray + thank you all the London cabbies!

[ADP-10-08-63]

you have tfl journey planner website and this will show you by what means of transport you can use and how to get there
thanks

[Trinity]

ClaraTaylor, on Jan 3 2010, 03:33 PM, said:

I want to go and visit the science museum.

I believe the Trekinetic is available to hire at the Science museum..

[Bill Forrester]

The London Underground is the oldest system in the world, however I did some research and they have one of the best users guides and strategic plans for no step access of any system in the world. It isn't just the access to the platforms that is important but the access from the platforms into the trains. That is both the height difference and the gap between the platform and the train. I have pulled together the documents and planning guide here
Hope that helps

[dangerousdave]

You don't get it do you
I worked for London Transport way back when
I know how old, how accessable
Forget those guides .. forget those maps
Age is not a excuse .. Nothin will shange .. some of those lifts havn't been upgraded since they were put in
Yes some of the lines run deep .. but some are just below ground level, some on ground level ..they should have been made accesable yonks ago
UK is not USA where your transportation system was made accessable
Again I ask you Londoners for your experiances

Hows about it Trinity

And black cabbies always get my vote ... they are great

Don't forget to arrange a RADAR KEY for your visit as they open a majority of the disabled loos

Edited by dangerousdave, 04 January 2010 - 11:44 AM.

[guido]

HAPPY NEW YEAR all!

I head to London every week, mostly as a day tripper, and sometimes on an overnight stop. I really believe it's okay: though every year should always see more improvements, obviously.

It's an old city but with dynamic new stuff going on everywhere all the time. So some buildings will be inaccessible and others are fantastic.

Mostly there are drop kerbs making road crossing easier.

Can't say too much about buses and the tube, because I won't go on the Tube. Can't see anyone carrying me up the steps when something goes wrong!

I take advantage of NO Congestion Charge and drive around the City. Then there are Disabled Bays all over (and you can get a Pie Guide for details of where to park and the different road marking regulations for each Borough, as they ALL ARE DIFFERENT, so don't get caught out!)

When I have taken a taxi, I've just stayed in the chair, and they're pretty easy.

London beats Paris HANDS DOWN!

The other thing about London is the range of stuff you can do and mostly with a free companion. Worth the effort IMHO.

[Denny]

I have visited London few times, and travel led on Local transport. Not all places are wheelchair friendly, and many places Kerbs are not levelled correctly, but most are manageable by a paraplegic on wheelchair.

Tube/train: Most underground stations are not wheelchair accessible, Jubilee Line trains are wheelchair accessible from all the new stations between Westminster and Stratford – stations can be reached via lift. Travelling to London via train, make sure that you request boarding station to call up destination station so that they are ready with Ramp when you reach there.

Bus : As far as I know Bus travel in London is free for wheelchair users, trouble is getting in and out of one. There are ramps fitted on the busses, but many of the drivers do not come close enough to kerbs and extend ramp in almost vertical position. Without another person helping it will be difficult (if not impossible) for a wheelchair person to board on their own. Not all drivers are bad, some do help. Inside the bus, Wheelchair space is shared with pushchairs, though wheelchair users have priority, many of the drivers cannot be bothered and drives off. If any driver denies access saying pushchair’s are in place, ask him to move his holy arse and read sticker at wheelchair designated place. In short if you plan to travel by bus, expect some unpleasant experiences.

Driving : Need a Sat Nav for sure, one-way systems and lanes are nightmare, also traffic is bit rough compared to other cities in UK. Finding parking space will be biggest challenge. If driving in to London find a parking space in advance. On week ends, parking inside Hyde Park is free, and I found it ideal location to start exploring London. Park the car there and push to places or get taxi / bus to where you want to go.

Science museum is wheelchair accessible also the IMAX theatre. Most of the Natural History museum also wheelchair accessible. I really enjoyed pushing from Tower bridge to London Eye, use the path on other side of Tower bridge (same side as London eye.) else some area’s are not accessible, there are steps and bollards that are not wide enough for wheelchair.

[Trinity]

I use the buses mainly and have had relatively few problems the bus drivers are generally pretty good, the main problem is people with pushchairs who seem to think that using the wheelchair space is their right and they can be quite stroppy about having to move and (shock horror) fold their collapsible buggy and carry their little ray of sunshine.

Travel is free on buses for wheelchair users.

I haven't been on the tube since injury and the amount and location of the accessible tube stations means I am unlikely too. This is a shame coz some of my journey times could be literally cut in half if they were more accessible.

Cabs and cabbies get my vote too. They really make life easy!

Trains are no problem either. Most conductors inform me that they have rung ahead and informed them that I'm on the train and require assistance off.

If you are driving into the congestion zone you can apply for a small one off fee for free unlimited travel. From what I remember you need all the details plus a copy of your blue badge. There is an application form. I would agree that a sat nav certainly makes things easier but at the very least an up to date A-Z is essential!
Here is the congestion charging form
Here is a lot of info about accessibility on public transport.

[dangerousdave]

Ta lads
Thats what I am saying to you people planning a trip to our once proud capital
If you are thinking of using public transport and staying at a cheap gaf - give it a miss or do a lot of planing
It pains me to say this as it is such a wounderous city
Alas as a country - it still s**** on us SCI
If you want to go to the O2 ..great
Sorry to sound like a party pooper

A final comment
Travelling through France I sought a overnite stop and came to a very ancient hotel
Wheeled through the door and the guy behind the desk gave a small sigh, led me round the corner and pointed at a hole in the wall
They were obveously fitting a lift, gave him the thumbs up and a nod of the head
In UK we have laws that old buildings can use so they don't have to accomidate us wheelies
That old chatoue in France was modernising itself to accomidate us wheelies

As for gay Parieeeee
Never been there on my own .... but cars were parked in lockups at night to stop them disapearing, that was in the late 90's
The joys of travel and SCI


Trinity ---- How did your pub crawl go

Edited by dangerousdave, 04 January 2010 - 02:55 PM.

[Trinity]

dangerousdave, on Jan 4 2010, 02:47 PM, said:

Trinity ---- How did your pub crawl go

If it's the Monopoly one you're thinking about that's Simon not me! I don't venture out of my part of London very much, unless it's to go to Twickenham!

[dangerousdave]

I'm sorry

Simon -- how did that pub crawl go

Never did venture much around twicks
Peckham to Kings Cross and all between was my main stiomping ground of long ago
In fact it was so long ago that when I got up to go leave for work at 6am - you could actually use the motorbike if desired -- yes the traffic volume was low back then when we still had coal fired central heating and RT was a modern bus, RM was still being introduced on short bus routes. Tubes were seldomed delayed and you could actualy run between platforms without knocking people over
My bike engine needed petrol and oil -- and the police would chase me trying to find those documents as a apprentice I never could afford
but I digress

Edited by dangerousdave, 04 January 2010 - 03:52 PM.

[wheelywendy]

i've been to london a few times as a day tripper, i've always found the bus drivers very helpful, my biggest problem was working out which bus i needed to get from a to b, but never had any problem getting bith me and my assistance dog on board,
one bus driver went out of his way literally to help me, i was desperatly trying to get back to kingscross station in time to catch my train (having managed to sort of ge lost a little!) i asked him which bus i needed he said the one thats just gone, but then told me to get on, he then took a mini detour from his own route and dropped me at a stop saying get on the next bus at this stop and it'll take you straight to kings cross, i was very imopressed and got to my station in good time.

i also used the black cabs during the day and all were very helpful,
i also went on a river trip and the london eye both helpful and accessable.
i did find some areas you had to go out your way a little get to dropped kerbs, and some drops are a little uneven, but managable with care. a few buildings are not accessable but on the whole i got where i wanted.

i plan to go again once it warms up,and prob even stay overnight this time.
wendy

[HiltonP]

London has improved of late, both in levels of access, and in their attitude to access.

In the late 90's London had a really bad attitude w.r.t. access and how it related to supposedly historical buildings. In Westminster they refused to provide a wheelchair lift, yet were happy to allow Starbucks to erect a coffee stall ontop of the basement gravestones. The V&A's access was patchy to say the least. The Imperial War Museum provided no access through it's entrance, one could only enter/exit via a dirty side alley. No-one appeared to see the irony of that.

But by early 2000's things had changed. Someone, somewhere, had managed to change the mindset, and architects have found innovative ways of blending modern accessability with historical architecture. Their work all along the Southbank, and crossing over to St Pauls, is excellent.

The transformation in the city from 1998 to 2005 really showed me what can be achieved when one drops the narrow minded historical monument mindset, and adopts a "can do" let me find a solution approach.

One real issue I faced in 2005 was the lack of bus transport from Heathrow into Central London. The modern red buses which used to do this run has been discontinued, which made no sense at all. My impression was that the transport network needed to "catch up" with the innovations made on the architectural access front.

Edited by HiltonP, 05 January 2010 - 09:11 AM.

[Scribbler]

Is it just me, or does anyone else get the impression DangrousDave doesn't think much of access in London?

As a born and bred Londoner I know if from old, so I've experienced it from a wheelchair 50 years ago. (back in the 1950's)
No access. No loos, but it didn't stop us going on the tube, going in a Cinema and getting around.

When I went back last year I found Its certainly changed a lot; they even have dropped kerbs, but some were a bit too steep.....

I found people friendly; even van drivers stopped to let us cross roads; but it could have had something to do with my PA!!

I've always used Black Cabs and never paid more than £10 for a trip, which was great when you've limited time and want to get somewhere fast.

Like all places, you will get crime or rude people; that's just life, but my visits there were enjoyable. I even got upgraded to 1st class on the train home.

[dangerousdave]

Scribblers words say it all

I've always used Black Cabs and never paid more than £10 for a trip, which was great when you've limited time and want to get somewhere fast.

Londons public transport system is independantly unusable
As for the train service ..... my station is unaccessable .. so I can't go anywhere by train
I do not accept that I have to travel 2 stops down, get a taxi back, acceptable

Consider then .. San Franciscoe, Dallas, Miami .. Tubes ..Trains .. Trams .. Buses .. Cable Cars (you have to board unaided) are all accesable. Their tube systems arn't as old as Londons, but still had to design in wheelies after they were built

Switzerland have completely renewed their train fleet and have yellow ramps everywhere and that was 12 years ago at least.
That was a amusing incident .. Getting of the train .. porter comes running at me .. mind the gap .. I'm looking at 25mm if that .. pop the casters up .. wheel up to him on my rear wheels .. what gap

Admittingly .. when I've been in Europe it's been mostly on my bike, but when venturing out on tourist trips there have been no problems .. except Belgium .. dreadful

As a ex Londoner .. I love the place .. but as a wheelie
So again I ask for London Wheelies to say..........................

[jane]

I go to london oftenish - in fact i have been to london more since my sci than before. the buses are great - i don't pay and i have never had a problem getting on them. usually the ramp is ok, but if i am struggling and my friend is still paying (get on in the middle if you are in a chair) then someone usually gives me a push. in fact i have been on buses that the driver will not move until the pushchairs have been moved!

black cabs are good too, in fact most people are very helpful. Went with kids to science and national history museum which was great, and been to a couple of art galaries too - all accesable. i even managed a trip on the river with a boat that had a lift on so i could go ont he top deck. its nice that my carer gets free admission /ride on eye.

i usually travel down by train - virgin - they are brilliant. book my assistance and they look after me, both at my home station (nuneaton) and at euston.

finding hotels is a bit more tricky - some hotels idea of accesable and mine differ - in particular holiday inn where i had to get out my chair, remove a wheel, move round the bottom of the stairs and get back in to get to my room! but have found some nice hotels, park plaza was nice. trying novotel in a ocuple of weeks.

hope that helps

jane

[ClaraTaylor]

Thank you Jane.

At the moment I am thinking that I'm going to need a lot more practice in my chair before I go into the city. Perhaps by the time I am brave enough I will be able to launch myself down flights of stairs...


...or not.

[JT80]

i've lived in london for 10 years - its doesn't seem that bad to me.
wheelchair user or walker arriving in london will be a shock if you don't live in a city. its hectic, busy, over-crowded and expensive but surely you go there knowing that...
you can get around but it takes time to get used to the new ways.
dangerousdave likes london, discuss...

[dangerousdave]

I was born into the shady world of crime where police didn't venture unless they wanted a good physical workout. In the days when it was bad form to steal from your neighbour, so bad infact that to do so would result in a visit to the hospital or morgue.
Then of to Montreal where after 8 years my parents stole every cent they could to get us all back to blighty.
Schooled of the Old Kent Road and lived all over south London
Apprenticed in Acton by London Transport
In that short time (12 yrs) I was all over its museums, pubs, eateries, doss houses, clubs, music sceen (the days of YES-ELP-HENDRIX-RENNAISANCE-STONE THE CROWS-LINDISFARNE-DONOVAN-ETC.)
Until 1973 and white van man
Then worked around the world until 1993 when Mr WHEELCHAIR said "COME ERE"
Since 1995 in my new found transport I have found my once proud city to be laging so far behind in the access game, I no longer bother.
Once in Miami the bus ramp wouldn't work properly. The driver took the bus out of service when I got of. In London there have been many stories where they havn't even stopped. Out here in Basildon where some london drivers gravitate to - they have brought there bad habits with them.
Truly the Tube system will never be completely accessable. But 25-35% of stations could easily be made so. money
Dropped curbs are more abundant but I still managed to shock a few drivers by suddenly appearing in front of them. Yes accessable public buildings are becoming more available, but toilets in a pub?
I have embarrassed myself in other lands where I have searched to find a loo, only to discover we don't have seperate loos.
London still has a long way to go to match other lands in being wheelchair friendly
At the Valencia race track - they were so shocked at seeing a chair bound idiot from the UK that they gave me free tickets and a spot on TV

Still not a lot of comments from you Londoners except the obveous praise for black cabs - which they do deserve

[Travelling Blackbird]

London would get a C+ from me for accessibility. It's not awful, but there are issues. Up till 2009, I visited London three or four times a year, generally on my own, and could do everything I wanted to (visit a couple of street markets, spend an afternoon each in Hyde Park and Kew Gardens, wander through the National Gallery and the Tate, visit a couple of cinemas, eat stuff I can't get in Germany, go to the theatre). I don't think it's very challenging, with a bit of planning.

Public Transport:
The Underground only has a couple of stations with full accessibility within zones one and two, so you can forget about that.

The buses are accessible. I get around London almost exclusively by bus. I've never had problems getting on or off the bus using the ramp, and I've almost never had problems with drivers stopping appropriately. Once or twice due to roadworks or inconsiderate parking, they'll have to stop somewhere that it's awkward to get the ramp off, and there is a bit of messing around.

The Black Cabs are wheelchair accessible (wider door, ramp) and the drivers are required to assist wheelchair-using passengers in and out. However, I have come across drivers who didn't want to do this, saying they had a bad back or other health problems. I rarely use the cabs, but I have done, and they were fine with a manual chair. I can't imagine getting into one with a power chair.

Heathrow, Gatwick, and Stanstead are all doable, and getting to and from them with the trains is fine. Luton is a pain in the neck to get to. City is right in the city, so it's fine.

Pavements:
Every year I see more and more kerb cuts at crossings, and they've dropped a lot of the pedestrian traffic light buttons by a few inches, making them accessible. The pavements are uneven and often narrow though, and you will encounter cobblestones around many important sights.

Hotel accessibility:
Don't look at any of the converted house-type hotels. You need to look at the newer ones, the ones that are members of large chains. Those are the only ones that will have large enough elevators and no steps out front!

Major tourist attractions:
The Tate Modern, the British Museum, the National Gallery, the Victoria and Albert Museum: all fully accessible.
Harrods, Selfridges, etc: all fully accessible.
The old buildings like St Paul's Cathedral: not so much... but that's kind of par for the course in Europe. There's a balance that has to be struck between accessibility and ruining the architectural and historical value of the building. You can get into St Paul's, but not everywhere inside.
The Theatres: same issues. Some are accessible, some aren't.

Shopping and restaurants:
Hit and miss. There are enough fully accessible places to choose from that you'll still have plenty of choice, but there are many that don't have elevators or that have steps. However, in the shops, the shop assistants were always glad to help out, bringing stuff down from upstairs.

Attitude:
The attitude of Londoners is good. In my experience, they're helpful without being intrusive, supportive without showing pity or worry. Attitude is one of the most important aspects of accessibility, and London really gets points for this.




And, to everyone who's saying San Francisco is better than London: I wouldn't rate San Francisco any higher than London. The buses are equally accessible, but there are a lot more problems with drivers not letting passengers on and not stopping in the right place to let passengers off. The streetcars are only accessible at certain stations and stops - the N-Judah, for example, is accessible at the top of Irving and at 9th and Judah, but nowhere in between - there's 8 blocks between those stops, and it's quite a steep hill to both. The kerb cuts are a joke, and many restaurants don't comply with ADA regulations. And the taxis? There wasn't a chance of getting a taxi as soon as the wheelchair came into play. "I'm not insured to lift that thing"...

[johnsage]

I have been to London 3 times and have created a website with very detailed London accessibility information. It should have all the answers to your accessibility questions. If not, let me know and I will find out. You can find it here:

www.sagetraveling.com/London-Accessibility

This is without a doubt THE BEST SOURCE OF INFORMATION FOR LONDON ACCESSIBILITY that exists on the internet. Trust me, I spent dozens of hours before my trip searching the internet for accessibility information with minimal luck and that's why I created the website.

By the way, I've traveled all over Europe and London and Berlin are the most accessible tourist destinations. Still not as accessible as most American cities, but getting around in a wheelchair is very manageable.

John

[Rotarymotion]

Hi Clara,

Because you are in Leicester, I assume you will be travelling by East Midlands Trains to London St Pancras. If you are familiar with train travel, please ignore the following, but if not, it might be of some help.

I go to London regularly for meetings, usually at various hotels in Bloomsbury, or near Portland Place. I always used to drive (from Derby) and hadn't used the train since becoming a full-time wheelchair user. I kept putting it off because I was uncertain how easy it would be. What a mistake!

I first used the train to St Pancras a year ago, and the journey was so easy compared to driving (and often cheaper) that I bought a disabled travel card (one-third off all fares including cheap internet deals) and must have been to London on the train 7 or 8 times in the past year (also now using train for Birmingham and Manchester).

I normally get a black taxi at St Pancras; the staff who meet you take you to the front of the queue if you use a wheelchair and check you get in ok.

Much of London is flat, so I sometimes just wheel to my destination if it isn't raining.

Advance internet fares are sometimes very cheap and assistance is easy to book.

If you need more info my train travel tips East Midlands Trains, send me a pm.

[Apparelyzed]

Here's some information on Wheelchair Accessible Buses in London which may help.

http://www.tfl.gov.u...ility/1171.aspx

Below is a couple of pdf files of the wheelchair accessible bus routes around London.

Regards

Simon

Attached Files

•  central_london_bus_map.pdf   355.83K   35 downloads
•  Getting_around_London.pdf   1.87MB   35 downloads

[Apparelyzed]

Here's some information on Wheelchair Accessibility on the London Underground Train system which may help, also known as the London Tube Stations.

http://www.tfl.gov.u...ility/1169.aspx

Below is a couple of pdf files on Wheelchair Accessibility on the London Underground Stations.

Regards

Simon

Attached Files

•  step_free_tube_guide_map.pdf   201.77K   39 downloads
•  toilets_map.pdf   203.61K   45 downloads
•  tube_map_1008.pdf   274.04K   33 downloads