[McTavish]

I had my first session of acupuncture this morning and the therapist could not get over how cold my legs were. Her aim is to get the blood flowing and try and get some heat into them, she is also doing massage as well to try and repair nerve damage.

She was asking me what I wanted to gain from the acupuncture, well in an ideal world I would like to walk but any change or movement would be gratefully accepted. Have any of you had acupuncture and did you see any benefit no matter how small?

How many sessions should I have to give it a chance? I am not having it as pain relief, as I have no pain.

I will not be able to have it indefinately as it is €60 per session., albeit worth it if it works.

[greybeard]

Slightly different scenario. I had several months of acupuncture following knee replacement surgery, supposedly for pain relief, and to stimulate damaged nerves/blood flow etc. I had to listen to hours of crap about my "chi" but neither that, nor the needles, made the slightest difference to my physical condition.

I wish you better luck. I suspect the massage will be as much or more benefit for your circulation - and that fee does sound a little excessive. Most chiropractors, osteopaths and sports injury clinics around here (Southern England) usually charge an initial consultation fee of around £35/40, then subsequent treatment visits at around £30. At today's exchange rate €60 is £52.

This post has been edited by greybeard: 29 January 2010 - 05:18 PM

[McTavish]

Thanks for that GB I will keep you posted. Yes they do tend to rub it in here in Ireland with the prices they charge

[mcferguson]

I have been recieved twice-a-week accupuncture treatments since Jul 09 and I haven't noticed anything. Even if I am recieving some benefits, I don't know that I could tell. The therapist is doing this for free, otherwise I would have stopped a while ago.

[McTavish]

Dont give up yet McF it may take a while for you to see any benefit. Good Luck

[mcferguson]

McTavish, on Jan 29 2010, 12:04 PM, said:

Dont give up yet McF it may take a while for you to see any benefit. Good Luck

I'm going to keep going, probably till July anyway. Hope it works out for you.

[guido]

McTavish, on Jan 29 2010, 05:55 PM, said:

Thanks for that GB I will keep you posted. Yes they do tend to rub it in here in Ireland with the prices they charge

Hi McT.

There's a chap in France called Albert Bohbot who does "laserpuncture" (a non-invasive form of acupuncture using infra-red lasers). He's on his 3rd or 4th generation lasers (improving them all the time) and has the backing of the French Govt now. The theory is that given the right stimulation (he places the lasers on particular points) the body finds alternative pathways. It's a bit more complex than that but you can read his site or get in touch direct.

There are lots of Irish people who go there, so you could easily talk to some of them, I'm sure.

Or you can read what Laurance Johnston says.

[Tetracyclone]

I first tried acupuncture as AB when I had a bad shoulder problem from overuse. It had gone one for 5 months and I thought I would have to quit my job. Tried it- "what can I lose?" and was completely healed in 2 treatments. Now I drive 60K to see one guy and respond really well to treatments. ROM is much better. When I see the local lady i don't respond to her care at all. $40 to $50 USD, 20% paid by insurance.

[KeepTheFaith]

Have been doing acupuncture since being in acute rehab. A doctor on staff came to my room three times a week. I have continued acupuncture twice a week at Project Walk in combination with their exercise based recovery program. You need to find someone who knows how to do scalp acupuncture, electro-acupuncture, and other techniques that specifically help with CNS recovery. I think that acupuncture contributed to the return of my bladder. The research is strong on the benefits and many insurance companies do pay for it in the U.S.

http://www.neuroacupuncture.org/

[greybeard]

KeepTheFaith, on Jan 30 2010, 02:14 AM, said:

The research is strong on the benefits and many insurance companies do pay for it in the U.S.

Now I know I'm an old cynic, but given that the sole objective of all insurance companies is to make obscenely large profits, it is not surprising that many of them willingly pay for the cheaper option of acupuncture rather than for very expensive surgical procedures.

Acupuncture needles are undoubtedly capable of producing effects such as tingling or numbness that may or may not temporarily relive pain etc. Whether their long term effects are thanks to the "placebo effect" is not quantifiable.

Many patients, especially those with a distrust of conventional medicine will believe they have been helped by it.

We've all heard of patients being apparently anaesthetised by acupuncture rather than drugs, but how acupuncture is supposed to repair actual physical damage is somewhat harder to accept.

[Scribbler]

McTavish. I'll come and stick needles in you for free. I'm an old cynic like GB.
There's always someone out there claiming their treatment helps all sorts of things, as long as you pay for it.

GB is right to mention the Placebo affect. Many Medical studies have shown that the Placebo affect exists. If you believe you are benefiting from a treatment then your problem improves, but its usually short lived.

[dangerousdave]

Acupuncture is somin I havn't experianced
As the science of it involves nerves and magnetic/electrical stimulation
Well my nerves arn't connected
Massage though - that I have had on several occasions mainly when my muscels knot up - pardon the expression
That does work - longest period of sessions being 6 - shortest 2
Expence = benefit
Snake Oil = loss of income

[Tetracyclone]

It's a fact- Traditional Chinese medicine makes no sense to the framework of western medicine. The western mind rejects it. However it may be incorrect to resort to name-calling (snake oil), on the grounds that you cannot understand something, and you personally got no benefit.

Since belief is a well-documented influence (placebo effect), might it also be possible that disbelief can short-circuit a treatment and render it ineffective?

That said, GB gave it a fair trial and Acupuncture clearly did nothing for the symptoms he was concerned with. Is it fair then to conclude acupuncture helps no one?

[dangerousdave]

Sorry - don't misunderstand me
There is a science for acupuncture
But you need nerves for it to work - that is what it needs for the process to function
Our nerves are no longer connected - thus snake oil
I do have AB friends that believe it's helped them - but they have fully functionable nervous systems
It wasn't that long ago when chyropracters (bone movers) were considered snake oilers

[McTavish]

Guido thanks for that had a look at the video and looks interesting, although patients seemed to be in general 1 year post injury. Probably that would make a difference, but everything is worth looking into.

Scribbs: thats the best offer I've had in a long time, if my accapuncture does not work might take you up on it

[The Black Sheep]

I tried acupuncture about a year after I was paralyzed and got a little more bladder control over the coarse of 3-4 months. I went once a week for about 5 months total, and the doctor had promised me we'd go jogging after a few months of the therapy. Although I appreciate optimism, he was a little off. I don't think I got much relief with spasms or any more motor function, but I do remember I could hold my bladder longer after each session. I forgot my catheter one time, and I was so worried I'd never get back home without a problem, but he did some stomach punctures that day and I was able to sit through a whole 1-hour session, cupping AND make it home. I had to pee like a racehorse when I got there, but it was the most notable change I'd noticed throughout my entire therapy.

[Tetracyclone]

dangerousdave, on Jan 30 2010, 11:12 AM, said:

Sorry - don't misunderstand me
There is a science for acupuncture
But you need nerves for it to work - that is what it needs for the process to function
Our nerves are no longer connected - thus snake oil
I do have AB friends that believe it's helped them - but they have fully functionable nervous systems
It wasn't that long ago when chyropracters (bone movers) were considered snake oilers

Dave,

This is not correct. Acupuncture uses the energy pathways referred to in English as meridians (lines... duuh) which sometimes correspond to nerves for a ways but mostly do not. It is an system of energy pathways, NOT nerve pathways.

[Trinity]

I have never tried acupuncture myself but my cousin used to take her elderly dog for acupuncture sessions and the results were amazing, he was an old dog with a lot of joint problems but after each session he used to bounce around like a puppy again for a few days.

No one told the dog about the placebo effect as far as I know!

[KeepTheFaith]

FYI - Snake oil originally came from China. There, it was used as a remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions. Snake oil is still used as a pain reliever in China. Fats and oils from snakes are higher in eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) than other sources, so snake oil was actually a plausible remedy for joint pain, as these are thought to have inflammation-reducing properties. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.

[Tetracyclone]

KeepTheFaith, on Jan 30 2010, 04:25 PM, said:

FYI - Snake oil originally came from China. There, it was used as a remedy for inflammation and pain in rheumatoid arthritis, bursitis, and other similar conditions. Snake oil is still used as a pain reliever in China. Fats and oils from snakes are higher in eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) than other sources, so snake oil was actually a plausible remedy for joint pain, as these are thought to have inflammation-reducing properties. Snake oil is still sold in traditional Chinese pharmacy stores.

HEY, THAT IS FASCINATING.

[airart1]

i use my jacuzzi for circulation and warming my legs, helps alot, plus helps my spams and relaxation..........

[mcferguson]

I finished twice a week acupuncture treatments about a month ago b/c I ran out of sick time. I was treated for about 8 months and had no discernable benefit.

[McTavish]

Well I,ve had seven shots at acupuncture and the only difference I can notice is that my purse is a lot lighter. Next I am trying laser treatment, I know I am the eternal optimist, but I just can,t help myself.

[libertyrebekah]

I started going to acupuncture for my cancer and I have had relief from many of the symptoms. I also include in it the paralyzation and its effects such as uti's and the pain I get from my back (due only to the paralysis) and it helps for that and who knows what else relating to it. I cant say that it will actually cure you and youll be walking but it has done amazing things for my life.
If youre in the USA there is a network that is incredible and cares about YOU and only charges $15 -35 dollars no questions asked and the website if you'd like to look for your area I believe is thepeoplesacupuncture.com and sorry but Im lazy right now so if that doesnt work just yahoo it. Im sure there are other groups in other countrys, too.

[JimG]

Tetracyclone, on Jan 30 2010, 02:12 AM, said:

I first tried acupuncture as AB when I had a bad shoulder problem from overuse. It had gone one for 5 months and I thought I would have to quit my job. Tried it- "what can I lose?" and was completely healed in 2 treatments. Now I drive 60K to see one guy and respond really well to treatments. ROM is much better. When I see the local lady i don't respond to her care at all. $40 to $50 USD, 20% paid by insurance.

I tried out of desperation 8 years ago for shin splints (I was a 30 mi/week runner) that wouldn't go away.

Two sessions.....gone.

I tried it for tennis elbow from weight lifting......two sessions.....gone.

My wife gets tendonitis in her shoulder occasionally (weight lifting).....two sessions.....gone.

I tried it for pain management around the area of my chest tube incision/insertion area after my last surgery.....two sessions......down to tolerable levels.

Didn't work for my paralysis.

[Robertc]

For several years I received weekly sessions of reflexology , rolfing and deep tissue massage. This was combined with a rigorous workout. But the benefits from the whole massage program were amazing I had reduced spasms and better muscle control and balance. I started the whole massage program much later in my recovery, I strongly believe if I started immediately after my accident I would have recovered faster. I tried acupuncture, but found no benefit, I did the treatment for less then 3 months.
Good Luck,
Robertc

This post has been edited by Robertc: 28 May 2010 - 06:53 PM