[Apparelyzed]

Disability Hate Crime - Panorama - BBC

Imagine what it's like to be burnt out of your own home, to watch your car being wrecked and to face abuse in public just for being disabled.

Wheelchair user Simon Green secretly films what it is like to endure disability hate crime, and reveals that many such incidents are not properly identified or prosecuted.

Presented by Jeremy Vine.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00qy...Do_You_Hate_Me/

[greybeard]

Thanks for posting that Simon. It should be compulsory viewing in all schools.

[dangerousdave]

I hate to say it - but I'm one of those victims
No help from police - No help from social housing - Unhelpful neighbourhood who can't stand up to the yobish culture we had on that estate
So I became a yob until the social housing accepted that I could no longer live there
Now no-longer on that violent estate, I have a normal life

Society must change - must understand that the word disabled means no cure means a living death

Think I've grumped enough

[allis53ca]

dammit, i can't watch it...can one of you uk'ers post it differently so we can watch too ?

[Rockupandroll]

I thought it was an interesting programme and this guy has obviously had a tough time and suffered some terrible abuse. I must admit whilst I've had the usual comments to me with people thinking they are being funny it's normally nothing worse than someone telling me to do a wheelie. I was a bit disapointed that the programme only highlighted cases in Wales. I'd have been interested to see if it was as common in other parts of the UK. I live in London and must admit that by and large people are fairly understanding. Most are just curious as to why I'm in a chair and that's something I get asked often in lifts and I'll usually just politely decline and say I'm not comfortable talking about it.

Rockupandroll

[edlee]

It is only playable in the UK,, it says. Any of you computor nerds know how to fix that??? It would be appreciated.
ed

[guido]

edlee, on Feb 16 2010, 09:53 PM, said:

It is only playable in the UK,, it says. Any of you computor nerds know how to fix that??? It would be appreciated.
ed

I don't think you can fix it. It's on the BBC website and content isn't viewable outside the UK - guess it's all to do with copyright and distribution protection.

It's a wheelchair user who is bringing attention to disability hate crime (i.e. people being tormented and abused, often over long periods of time, just because they are disabled).

He highlights some really lowlife, scumbag behaviour, the very worst our culture & society have to offer, and also how it is poorly classified by police and authorities (thereby meaning they don't have to deal with it or take it seriously), and how poor the police response is (one woman called the police 60 times in 5 years - shows cctv footage of every window on her car being smashed, and talks about sustained aggression and criminal damage against her and her property).

Frankly, I'm not surprised. I've seen the Police lie about such small things (1st hand) in this country, that you just know that they are rotten, ineffective & corrupt all the way up. Was delighted to see Dezai get locked up, but know that there is no way he was acting alone - over such a long period. They have a lot of work to do to earn back trust in them and a reputation for integrity. Don't think they have the leadership or Will to do it. Too many vested interests, like everything these days.

[JT80]

i saw it and was pretty disappointed - it certainly didn't do what it described.
the guy presenting didn't get intimidated or abused by a member of the public. the guy saying he could walk had clearly not seen eye to eye with the presenter for years - they were at school together. it was an ongoing feud so we weren't to know what had gone before.
the car vandalism was not pleasant but no reason to suggest the lady was targeted because of her disability. it happens to people disabled or not.
i think the programme revealed more about unpleasant chavs with nothing better to do than hate crime.
i haven't encountered direct abuse from a stranger - in fact i reckon i got more pre-accident. most people tend to mind their own business.
a documentary trying to promote better access would be better.

[greybeard]

guido, on Feb 16 2010, 10:01 PM, said:

Police ........................ you just know that they are rotten, ineffective & corrupt all the way up. Was delighted to see Dezai get locked up, but know that there is no way he was acting alone - over such a long period. They have a lot of work to do to earn back trust in them and a reputation for integrity. Don't think they have the leadership or Will to do it. Too many vested interests, like everything these days.

Guido, if you've been on the receiving end of inappropriate behaviour, I can understand your anger. But you shouldn't tar them all with the same brush. Cops are just human beings and although theirs is a hugely different job than it was back in the 1960s when I was in the Met, efforts are still made to weed out the wronguns.

For your information, the overwhelming majority of cops were also hugely delighted when Dezai was convicted. Enormous resources had been spent trying to gain evidence against him for a number of years before, but he was a clever bugger who was good at covering his tracks. Cops have a philosophy that the bad'uns always come in the end. In his case it just took a little longer. Seeing his brief, Michael Mansfield, lose such a high profile case was almost as satisfying as seeing Dezai convicted.

[guido]

greybeard, on Feb 20 2010, 03:17 PM, said:

guido, on Feb 16 2010, 10:01 PM, said:

Police ........................ you just know that they are rotten, ineffective & corrupt all the way up. Was delighted to see Dezai get locked up, but know that there is no way he was acting alone - over such a long period. They have a lot of work to do to earn back trust in them and a reputation for integrity. Don't think they have the leadership or Will to do it. Too many vested interests, like everything these days.

Guido, if you've been on the receiving end of inappropriate behaviour, I can understand your anger. But you shouldn't tar them all with the same brush. Cops are just human beings and although theirs is a hugely different job than it was back in the 1960s when I was in the Met, efforts are still made to weed out the wronguns.

For your information, the overwhelming majority of cops were also hugely delighted when Dezai was convicted. Enormous resources had been spent trying to gain evidence against him for a number of years before, but he was a clever bugger who was good at covering his tracks. Cops have a philosophy that the bad'uns always come in the end. In his case it just took a little longer. Seeing his brief, Michael Mansfield, lose such a high profile case was almost as satisfying as seeing Dezai convicted.

I agree about stereotyping people. The problem is these buggers all conform to the stereotype!

I wish I could say that my bad experiences with the Police are isolated. But they're not, and they're not just my stories either. They're all my friends. And my friends come from all walks. In fact, in the last 7 years I can give you ONE good interaction story with the Police and that was in Surrey.

1. Sheffield - lazy copper, didn't follow procedure on sthg SO small, then they tried to cover it up with the investigating sgt even trying to delete email evidence. End result, we escalate it and 1 copper dismissed and one demoted. (This was over sthg TINY, but they lied and tried to cover up. We'd never have taken it so far if they'd come clean at the beginning and just said sorry.
2. Birmingham - mate's motor home nicked. Idle buggers do nothing, not even use the motorway cameras to find out where it was headed, saying noting they could do. When it was escalated a more senior copper asks why this didn't happen and tracks it. All too late, weeks after, and motorhome prob out of the country. Original copper gave all sorts of excuses which turned out to be lies.
3. London - Mark Saunders shot (I happened to know him and some of the details about this case). They're gun toting thugs. Wouldn't let his wife talk to him over the phone, and then fire 9 shots!! What Mark was doing was totally wrong, but an intelligent person assessing the situation could have made some very different decisions. He's be alive and banged up now, and probably getting counselling. NINE shots fired??? I mean that wasn't necessary. Guess what they want to do? Kill people.
4. Heathrow - another mate of mine is a Special. Sees two armed police push an old lady who'd gone up to them to ask a question, and they didn't feel like answering it. Long story short, he arrested them because he KNEW his rights. One sacked, one demoted. They had a history of thuggishness, but no-one prepared to do anything about it, except let them loose with guns.
5. London protests - don't get me started.
6. Fuel blockade protests - arrested people and cleared them out the way under ANTI-TERROR laws... !!!!!!????
7. I witness a drive-off at a petrol station, took down details and offer to act as witness. The copper who turned up was such a chippy, obnoxious TWAT (as was the garage owner actually) that I ended up asking him to leave. I mean it wasn't exactly encouraging me to do my civic duty.
8. What about the sanctimonious Chief Constable responsible for anti-speeding campaigns. What was he caught for??? And did he have a valid excuse???
9. God, I could go on, I have a LOT of stories.

The one good story is another friend who had his car nicked in Surrey - and police there were really good and ended up getting results.

I have another friend who is a copper in Birmingham, and after Xmas a few years back, 8 of us went out for a drink, hadn't seen each other in a while. We were all taking it in turns to rib each other (old friends, y'know) but when we got to our friend the copper, it turned quite serious, because all of us (ex-army/TA or fire service - the kind who should absolutely be supporters of the police) keep having bad experiences with them.

I understand your comment GB, but they make me RAGE. I hope you'll realise from my posts, I'm actually quite a reasonable guy, but they have consistently ABUSED their powers for SO LONG, that it's not up to us to cut them some slack. If the Police want to be the puppets of this awful administration (even though their own regs state that they don't HAVE to do anything they don't agree with) then they have got some SERIOUS work to do to regain our trust in their integrity.

And I don't think they have what it takes. Certainly the leadership is lacking. But if they don't sort themselves out, it tells me the top men have too much history which too many people know about, for them to take action. Someone will grass them up and they're too worried about their own careers.

Catching middle class petty crimes - and ignoring hardened pesistant crime - because it makes their targets look good doesn't impress me.

I'll give them a break when I believe they earn it.

[greybeard]

Bloody hell, Guido. That's quite a list.

Look, I'm not trying to defend the police. I don't even know any cops these days. I just think that to use phrases like "these buggers all conform to the stereotype!" is a little hysterical from one is as level headed as you appear from your posts.

It is often said that society gets the police force it deserves. Perhaps your experiences are evidence that this is true.

Peace.

[guido]

greybeard, on Feb 20 2010, 11:07 PM, said:

Bloody hell, Guido. That's quite a list.

Look, I'm not trying to defend the police. I don't even know any cops these days. I just think that to use phrases like "these buggers all conform to the stereotype!" is a little hysterical from one is as level headed as you appear from your posts.

It is often said that society gets the police force it deserves. Perhaps your experiences are evidence that this is true.

Peace.

Not heard that expression. And I suspect there are plenty of citizens of Police States that might disagree!

Yes! Peace.

[JT80]

incompetent policing yes. unfounded hate linked directly to disability, not really.

[Trinity]

There's another one coming up...
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/sticks-...ies-1/episode-1

[Kernowtetra]

JT80, on Feb 20 2010, 03:03 PM, said:

i saw it and was pretty disappointed - it certainly didn't do what it described.
the guy presenting didn't get intimidated or abused by a member of the public. the guy saying he could walk had clearly not seen eye to eye with the presenter for years - they were at school together. it was an ongoing feud so we weren't to know what had gone before.
the car vandalism was not pleasant but no reason to suggest the lady was targeted because of her disability. it happens to people disabled or not.
i think the programme revealed more about unpleasant chavs with nothing better to do than hate crime.
i haven't encountered direct abuse from a stranger - in fact i reckon i got more pre-accident. most people tend to mind their own business.
a documentary trying to promote better access would be better.

I agree it was disappointing and seemed to be more about an ongoing feud. Likewise, that it revolved around a load of chavs that you could probably find doing the same thing on numerous estates around the country. A women on an estate in a town not far away from where I live was burnt to death by someone putting a lighted newspaper through her letter box. It had nothing to do with disability or race and was an ongoing feud by someone who probably thought lets teach the person a lesson! Sadly, this is the world we live in now!! Similarly, I agree that it would have been better to do a programme on access. I have just spent over three years getting someone I have know for years pre and post SCI and considered a friend to provide access to one of their establishment having spent over 1/2 million pounds on extending the establishment some six years earlier. This was not easy to do and thankfully I had the support of the EHRC. Ironically, the person was what you could consider of an ethic minority. Yet if I had painted the establishment with racist words I would have been in court like a shot! However, not providing access seems acceptable to many and people are getting away with.

[Scribbler]

I watched the programme and felt sad for the elderly lady. I know nothing of the feud between the 2 guys but I noticed the pub was full of, what to me seemed like drunken louts; I wouldn't even go to such a place.
There are 3 pubs in my village, I can go in all of them and feel welcome. I've been injured over 50 years and NEVER experienced any abuse other than the usual curious question, which doesn't bother me.
I'm certainly aware that our so called Society has changed. People are more self orientated and unaware, or don't care that their actions cause suffering to others. I don't seek confrontation with those type of people so avoid them in the same way I avoid contact with drug addicts and smokers.
When I used to drive I was stopped by the Police and treated very politely. He explained that he'd stopped me for driving 28mph in a 30mph area; he explained that drink drivers do this and that's the only reason I was stopped.
I can only comment on my personal experiences; I'm sure others have different stories to tell.

Mike

[jules]

Going slightly off topic but still to do with the police, I was once pulled over when I was driving on my own, because I had my blue badges on display, I was advised that this could make me more vulnerable when driving around town. That had never occured to me before that.

My only other dealings with the police were when I was attacked whilst at University, and I cannot fault Merseyside Police, they were wonderful from the time we rang them to report the attack to the resulting court case 2 years later. I was looked after by a WPC and a PC initially and then a DS and a couple of DCs, they were actually far kinder and more supportive to me than several of the very hard faced nurses that I had the misfortune to encounter whilst I was in hospital. When I was taken in after being sexually assaulted the nurses questioned me as to exactly what had happened and when I got upset they kept on saying you'd better get used to this the police will be far worse we are only helping you!!!

This was not a disability crime I was just the victim and happened to be disabled.

Again this is only my experience.

Jules

[ajl338]

I'm so glad there are some people here who like me also didnt think the programme was great. I posted a post on the BBC Ouch disability board and got a lot of personal abuse, reported to the moderator and got kicked off of it and all i asked was:

The guy in the chair was going on about how on a night out he was regularly tipped out of his chair. I was confused who was doing the tipping out but if I was out for the night and my mates tipped me out they wouldnt be my mates for long (i'd get new ones that didnt tip me out as its not funny) If it wasnt his mates doing it but a stranger why didnt his mates do something about it, again time for new mates.

It just seemed to me that he isnt happy with who he is and cant accept himself in a chair. The whole thing about people looking when he goes in somewhere, actually everyone entering a door gets looked at (for about 5 seconds) and then people go back to what they were doing, people stare at fat people, thin people, tall people short people, people with differnt clothes on etc, being in a chair doenst make you imune from all of that.

He also needs to be a bit more understanding, it was obvious that the blokes in the pub werent of above average intellegence and the chair guy pointed out that he used to be able to walk, so when someone you last saw at school , walking comes through the door and you arent very clever and a bit drunk, its reasonable for you to assume they think you can still walk or could walk. They dont see why because you could do it then you cant do it now. So unless you want to share your complete medical history just accept it (why does he care what they think anyway?)

The other things were sad but i dont think disability related, it was just unlucky people living in rough places ( i dont see what a lot of them had to do with being disabled) I agree they are crimes to torch peoples houses etc but its just gangs against vunerable people.

[Trinity]

ajl338, on Feb 23 2010, 11:31 PM, said:

I'm so glad there are some people here who like me also didnt think the programme was great. I posted a post on the BBC Ouch disability board and got a lot of personal abuse, reported to the moderator and got kicked off of it and all i asked was:

The guy in the chair was going on about how on a night out he was regularly tipped out of his chair. I was confused who was doing the tipping out but if I was out for the night and my mates tipped me out they wouldnt be my mates for long (i'd get new ones that didnt tip me out as its not funny) If it wasnt his mates doing it but a stranger why didnt his mates do something about it, again time for new mates.

It just seemed to me that he isnt happy with who he is and cant accept himself in a chair. The whole thing about people looking when he goes in somewhere, actually everyone entering a door gets looked at (for about 5 seconds) and then people go back to what they were doing, people stare at fat people, thin people, tall people short people, people with differnt clothes on etc, being in a chair doenst make you imune from all of that.

He also needs to be a bit more understanding, it was obvious that the blokes in the pub werent of above average intellegence and the chair guy pointed out that he used to be able to walk, so when someone you last saw at school , walking comes through the door and you arent very clever and a bit drunk, its reasonable for you to assume they think you can still walk or could walk. They dont see why because you could do it then you cant do it now. So unless you want to share your complete medical history just accept it (why does he care what they think anyway?)

The other things were sad but i dont think disability related, it was just unlucky people living in rough places ( i dont see what a lot of them had to do with being disabled) I agree they are crimes to torch peoples houses etc but its just gangs against vunerable people.

All very valid points ajl. None of my friends would ever consider either doing that or allowing it to happen.
As for the Ouchers, they are an odd lot and ultra-sensitive (in a whole world is out to get me sense!)

[guido]

Seeing as some of us (ahem, me) moaned about the police, here's a cheerful story to warm the cockles...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/24/a...-assault-prison

Believe they call it rough justice!

[greybeard]

guido, on Feb 24 2010, 10:33 AM, said:

Seeing as some of us (ahem, me) moaned about the police, here's a cheerful story to warm the cockles...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/24/a...-assault-prison

Believe they call it rough justice!

Not that I'm biased in any way, you understand! But it's comforting to see that the inmates are making up for the shortcomings of the justice system.

This post has been edited by greybeard: 24 February 2010 - 01:06 PM

[Denny]

I agree with points made by Ajl. I did not think the abuse was totally due to disability. I think the program focused on negative side of incident in the pub, when the person realized their mistake they apologized and offered to buy him drink. Living in troubled area every one is going to have trouble, person who do not respond or unable to respond get picked more often. In the program itself they show neighbor having to fit CCTV to control vandalism.

I feel sorry for the police, they are so powerless. Most of the trouble makers are kids/teenagers and there are virtually untouchable, fully protected by law. Politicians are asking to punish no one so that the jails are not full and release criminals early to free up space! Most of the criminals are regular trouble makers, and police know them. Even if they catch them red handed they escape punishment or get very minor punishment and police may even get warning that he/she mistreated or breached human right of the criminal. Though I had a negative experience (my SLR camera was stolen and I saw it being sold on E-bay, despite informing police all they could do was to write to E-bay and receive no reply!) I think they are doing a good job with in the limitations they have in UK. We are ruled by money hungry, immoral criminal MP's, they would never want to improve law and order, if done they and their friends will be behind bars for very long time.

I went looking for friends and found few, I went to be a friend and found friends everywhere! Think same goes for trouble

[dangerousdave]

Society is so wrapped up in the now
We have forgotten the then
Times when juves were picked up of the streets , taken to the cells and given a beating
For just being Juves
That wasn't the 40's or 50's but 60's
We have unfortunatly gone from one extreme to another
The middle ground will take some finding

I was beaten up in the 60's and they were still chasing me in the 70's
Just because I was a member of bikers gangs
Violence never entered my life untile the cops grabbed me

There you go - I'm getting grumpy again

Walker in those days

This post has been edited by dangerousdave: 24 February 2010 - 03:20 PM

[Boggs52]

I HATE hate crime legislation. A crime gets commited, it's a crime period. I would not care or be helped if the perp is charged with a "hate crime" because govt. thinks they help by pidgeon holing me into a some special category