30 replies to this topic

[mcferguson]

Would anyone refuse treatment that involved embryonic stem cells?

My view is that life begins at fertilization and I couldn't in good conscience accept treatment, even if it were 100% effective, that involved the death of an embryo (or pre-embryo). No doubt I am in an extreme minority on this.

[Tetracyclone]

Would you refuse an organ transplant if you needed it on the grounds that it involved the death of the donor?

Fetuses or embryos find their way into stem cell lines in different ways. Much effort has gone into avoiding ethical challenges. Inquire before you refuse something, because you don't want to stand on principle where that principle does not apply.

[mcferguson]

Tetracyclone, on Mar 2 2010, 07:50 PM, said:

Would you refuse an organ transplant if you needed it on the grounds that it involved the death of the donor?

Fetuses or embryos find their way into stem cell lines in different ways. Much effort has gone into avoiding ethical challenges. Inquire before you refuse something, because you don't want to stand on principle where that principle does not apply.

As an organ donor myself I would not refuse such an organ transplant provided the donor wasn't killed just to provide me an organ.

I will definately vett a treatment before I agree to it. Hopefully, I won't have to make a principled stand as I want to be restored as much as any of us.

[Tetracyclone]

McFerg-

I think things will work out. Scientists are trying hard to make it work for everyone, and there are already several clinics that market to Christians. The one in Germany can be trusted but they stopped treating SCI (at last check). I suspect the results were minimal. The one in Central America I don't have reason to trust, as marketing specifically to Evangelicals may mean they are more interested in marketing than in treatment.

[allis53ca]

"provided the donor wasn't killed just to provide me an organ."....and, embryos arent harvested just to provide stemcells....and i also think alot of you who play hypotheticals about a treatment still not proven, would change your tune if it were a reality and all you had to do was go to hosp to get injection and start getting return or have a terminal disease cured

[topperf]

A pre-embryo is a blastocyst, and no, a blastocyst can't become a embryo, unless it's inserted into a human application.

The 8 years Bush jr. was in office, thousands and thousands blastocyst was discarded (thrown away) instead of being used scientific, due to his religious views.

Was that the right thing to do? - time to start thinking for one self.

[Soryfam]

I think each of us has to make that decision when the situation arises. Somethings are easy-- I doubt many of us would condone killing somebody for their body parts. OTOH, if someone is having an abortion, and we could benefit from the cells, I think I would do it. And scientists really are finding new ways to get stem cells without abortion being involved. This would probably make a really good topic for someone's thesis, LOL.

Sandy

[araitn]

allis53ca, on Mar 3 2010, 12:31 PM, said:

"provided the donor wasn't killed just to provide me an organ."....and, embryos arent harvested just to provide stemcells....and i also think alot of you who play hypotheticals about a treatment still not proven, would change your tune if it were a reality and all you had to do was go to hosp to get injection and start getting return or have a terminal disease cured

Agree

topperf, on Mar 3 2010, 01:09 PM, said:

A pre-embryo is a blastocyst, and no, a blastocyst can't become a embryo, unless it's inserted into a human application.

The 8 years Bush jr. was in office, thousands and thousands blastocyst was discarded (thrown away) instead of being used scientific, due to his religious views.

Was that the right thing to do? - time to start thinking for one self.

Amen, brother!

[E-DOG]

I have a quick question for any and all who would refuse a proven effective treatment (cure) for their paralysis if it involved something that went against or was not sanctioned by the bible, or their theistic belief system.

If you were to forgo an opportunity (one time offer, had to be done then) for a cure due to your theistic beliefs, and the very next day found out,
came to the realization, discovered, that there was in fact no god and what you had been believing in was a sham, how would you feel?

My point here is not to start a spiritual debate. I'm just curious.

E

[greybeard]

Quote

"how would you feel?

My point here is not to start a spiritual debate. I'm just curious."

Ain't going to happen, E.

They would just reject the evidence.


Addition : P'raps I should have added "Cos the evidence isn't contained in their books"

Edited by greybeard, 05 March 2010 - 02:11 PM.

[dangerousdave]

Don't think they would reject the evidence Ol Greybeard
Evidence has to be acknowlaged befor it's rejected
Nothin but the word of.......is ever acknowlaged

So E-Dog is in for a very long wait

Edited by dangerousdave, 05 March 2010 - 10:21 AM.

[graphic]

dangerousdave, on Mar 5 2010, 10:19 AM, said:

Don't think they would reject the evidence Ol Greybeard
Evidence has to be acknowlaged befor it's rejected
Nothin but the word of.......is ever acknowlaged

So E-Dog is in for a very long wait

Christianity, like every other religion, is based on faith. No one can prove God exists and no one can prove he doesn't. End of ... but probably not!

Edited by graphic, 05 March 2010 - 11:52 AM.

[mcferguson]

E-DOG, on Mar 4 2010, 08:45 PM, said:

I have a quick question for any and all who would refuse a proven effective treatment (cure) for their paralysis if it involved something that went against or was not sanctioned by the bible, or their theistic belief system.

If you were to forgo an opportunity (one time offer, had to be done then) for a cure due to your theistic beliefs, and the very next day found out,
came to the realization, discovered, that there was in fact no god and what you had been believing in was a sham, how would you feel?

My point here is not to start a spiritual debate. I'm just curious.

E

I would feel foolish.

[Tetracyclone]

All,

this link to the michael J Fox Foundation site has an interesting discussion of various stem cell sources and their effectiveness re parkinsons. The issues for SCI are different but analogous.

http://www.michaeljf...temCells101.cfm

I believe if we keep informed on the details of SC research we can avoid much of the heat that stem cell research attracts. It is not all that hard to understand.

After all, too many of us spending too much time on computers. Its a golden opportunity for brain exercise.

[mcferguson]

Tetracyclone, on Mar 5 2010, 10:55 AM, said:

All,

this link to the michael J Fox Foundation site has an interesting discussion of various stem cell sources and their effectiveness re parkinsons. The issues for SCI are different but analogous.

http://www.michaeljf...temCells101.cfm

I believe if we keep informed on the details of SC research we can avoid much of the heat that stem cell research attracts. It is not all that hard to understand.

After all, too many of us spending too much time on computers. Its a golden opportunity for brain exercise.

It makes me sad that in vitro labs are discarding blastocysts as medial waste. I see them as little, unformed people.

[E-DOG]

mcferguson, on Mar 5 2010, 05:49 AM, said:

E-DOG, on Mar 4 2010, 08:45 PM, said:

I have a quick question for any and all who would refuse a proven effective treatment (cure) for their paralysis if it involved something that went against or was not sanctioned by the bible, or their theistic belief system.

If you were to forgo an opportunity (one time offer, had to be done then) for a cure due to your theistic beliefs, and the very next day found out,
came to the realization, discovered, that there was in fact no god and what you had been believing in was a sham, how would you feel?

My point here is not to start a spiritual debate. I'm just curious.

E

I would feel foolish.

Thank you Mac.
I appreciate your honesty.
That's all I wanted to know.

It was a hypothetical question. I know there are no definitive answers at this point in time.

E

[edlee]

mcferguson, on Mar 5 2010, 12:05 PM, said:

Tetracyclone, on Mar 5 2010, 10:55 AM, said:

All,

this link to the michael J Fox Foundation site has an interesting discussion of various stem cell sources and their effectiveness re parkinsons. The issues for SCI are different but analogous.

http://www.michaeljf...temCells101.cfm

I believe if we keep informed on the details of SC research we can avoid much of the heat that stem cell research attracts. It is not all that hard to understand.

After all, too many of us spending too much time on computers. Its a golden opportunity for brain exercise.

It makes me sad that in vitro labs are discarding blastocysts as medial waste. I see them as little, unformed people.

So did the Octomom. It's all a matter of choice.
ed

[StillFingers]

I have a few big veins left, stick me, cure me...youngsters, new SCI's in line first, I'll be right behind you. As for those that must endure their SCI due to religious reasons...no pain, no gain, enjoy. After I've stem celled up, rehabbed this ole body, I'm goin surfin, dancin, then a nice long hot shower...seeya

Until then, get on with the

Edited by StillFingers, 07 March 2010 - 06:11 PM.

[skeaman]

YES I WOULD
can you honestly say when the doctor said to you about not walking and all that goes with it told you this is the quickest way but if you wait for 10 or 20 years some thing might come a long. for you ? as for the religion thing. it is a way to keep us line ? no matter what religion you believe in for every one thinks theirs is right ?
4 years past and would still do it this is the way i look at it

Edited by skeaman, 08 March 2010 - 07:14 PM.

[guido]

StillFingers, on Mar 7 2010, 06:10 PM, said:

I have a few big veins left, stick me, cure me...youngsters, new SCI's in line first, I'll be right behind you. As for those that must endure their SCI due to religious reasons...no pain, no gain, enjoy. After I've stem celled up, rehabbed this ole body, I'm goin surfin, dancin, then a nice long hot shower...seeya

Until then, get on with the

Spoken like a true gent!

[chellbell]

I was under the impression that if the blastocysts are not being used for research than they are thrown away. In my opinion only...if someone can find a cure of any kind by doing research than by all means keep looking. Maybe the cure can help sci or maybe it will be to cure childhood cancer. The thing with this kind of research is that you never know until you try. That being said without a human "host" these cells are just that...cells. I understand the debate religiously speaking but I have to believe that GOD gave the scientists the knowledge to do this research. Maybe HE would rather help improve a life rather than throw away the cells. After all a lot of the embryos come from reproductive clinics where in vitro is done. The cells are either implanted or discarded. Just throwing that out for thought.
I am 100% for research not only for sci but for other debilitating diseases.

[spacey]

I had a good friend go to Germany for stem cell treatment for his brain injury in February 2009. They used his own stem cells. He has experienced a little improvement, it is a very slow process. It was great no ethical situation for him however if it was the only option on the table and improvement for quality of life I think he would say yes. I would take the treatment in a heart beat and ask for forgiveness later
Great what if question!

[allis53ca]

i found it ironic today that the question was whether religious views would keep you from accepting treatment, when it occured to me that religious views are the reason these treatments haven't advanced...so, actually those religious views are already refusing treatment, for ANYONE

[mcferguson]

allis53ca, on Mar 11 2010, 01:11 AM, said:

i found it ironic today that the question was whether religious views would keep you from accepting treatment, when it occured to me that religious views are the reason these treatments haven't advanced...so, actually those religious views are already refusing treatment, for ANYONE

Is it a religous view that determines when people think life begins?

[dangerousdave]

I'm not religous
I don't know when life begins
Just as I know I can't remember being a bit of jelly in a womb
Or much else befor I was 5 - then only selected incidences until I was 7
Does that mean I'm a late developer
Or even mentaly retarded
In which case maybe there is nothin wrong with my chord
Oh sod it
Yes there is - I can't walk

Edited by dangerousdave, 11 March 2010 - 02:51 PM.

[allis53ca]

mcferguson, on Mar 11 2010, 03:25 PM, said:

allis53ca, on Mar 11 2010, 01:11 AM, said:

i found it ironic today that the question was whether religious views would keep you from accepting treatment, when it occured to me that religious views are the reason these treatments haven't advanced...so, actually those religious views are already refusing treatment, for ANYONE

Is it a religous view that determines when people think life begins?

religious views have blocked advances in escr (in america)...and i personally haven't met anyone life at conception minded who didn't base it on religious beliefs....i believe science will determine it, but religion or lack thereof forms the opinion

[McTavish]

I would refuse nothing that might get me back on my feet

[chellbell]

Ok now again just throwing ideas out there...what does determine when life begins? Technically speaking if we r really getting down 2 it then one could possibly say that every time a woman gets her period or a man blows his load then potential life is destroyed. Each egg and each sperm has the potential to produce a life.
Just to give perspective about pregnancy and "life" even when your pregnant some times your not. I had a misscarriage between my 1st n 2nd child. I was 7 weeks pregnant. Positive pregnancy tests n all the signs and symptoms of pregnancy. Turns out I had what is called a blighted ovum. It means that the sac grew but nothing grew into it. In my mind then and to this day I had a baby growing inside me. Medically speaking I didn't. Views about life is in the mind of the beholder.

[Beautiful]

E-DOG, on Mar 4 2010, 06:45 PM, said:

I have a quick question for any and all who would refuse a proven effective treatment (cure) for their paralysis if it involved something that went against or was not sanctioned by the bible, or their theistic belief system.

If you were to forgo an opportunity (one time offer, had to be done then) for a cure due to your theistic beliefs, and the very next day found out,
came to the realization, discovered, that there was in fact no god and what you had been believing in was a sham, how would you feel?

My point here is not to start a spiritual debate. I'm just curious.

E

greybeard, on Mar 5 2010, 12:31 AM, said:

Quote

"how would you feel?

My point here is not to start a spiritual debate. I'm just curious."

Ain't going to happen, E.

They would just reject the evidence.


Addition : P'raps I should have added "Cos the evidence isn't contained in their books"

GB: I think a lot of arguments start because of grouping, such as saying "they". Not all of "us" are the same. So, in an attempt to get rid of any future arguments, maybe use something else? :]

Doggy: IF that were to happen, I wouldn't care. Why? Because the way I live MY life is based on how I feel it should be. I don't judge others, I treat others how I want to be treated, I try to help out others, I don't smoke, drink, or do drugs. All of those things that I do/don't do is based on how I want to live. I just happen to be a Christian as well. So IF I found out there wasn't a God, I wouldn't react, because being a Christian doesn't define who I am and how I live. I still wouldn't judge others, drink, smoke, or do drugs. I would continue to try to help out other people and treat them as I would want to be treated. I guess I am not the same as most super-conservative Christians. I believe in gay rights, and I believe in women's rights as well. Because like I said, I don't judge :]

And just to answer the question, YES, I would take the embryonic stem cell treatment if it was guaranteed to work. My personal beliefs and the way I live can be separated. I don't feel as though I have to choose one over the other. Hopefully that answers your question, Dog :]

[allis53ca]

wow beaut....that was one of the most well thought and worded replies i've seen on the boards in a long time.