41 replies to this topic

[pistol_pete]

Ouch!! Poor bugger! Pretty stupid of the arena to not haave a barrier in the wheelchair section. Definite case of negligence.

My neck of the woods? Aaah, sorta but not really, same country but still about 5000 k's away.

[Travelling Blackbird]

gordonr, on Mar 12 2010, 03:07 AM, said:

Travelling Blackbird, on Mar 12 2010, 12:32 AM, said:

looking weaker means being a target to people who are looking for targets. They told me that I need to understand that because we can't heal society as a whole(emphasis added)

This is the logic of self-enabled defense including concealed carry, and of course, common sense as to when and where you present yourself.

However, a gimp is still a gimp, the frail and elderly are still frail and elderly, children are still children, and (Laura Croft not withstanding) females are still females. All of those groups are at risk { ... }

We now, perhaps for the first time in the history of the world have arrived at an understanding that the weak, SHOULD be protected. And there is no practical reason why it cannot be done.

I would love to see a society that was putting some serious research and effort into finding a working, workable way to protect the weak.

There are many things that we as a society have not yet learned, or show no signs of learning. The profiles of crimes committed change over time, but the types of crime remain the same. Generation after generation seems to follow the mistakes of the last.

This is not to say there are no changes. In Western Europe, there is no longer the same culture of casual violence towards children that existed when I was a child: the majority of parents then hit their kids regularly. The majority of parents now do not. Sadly, there are still children being physically, mentally and sexually abused in those countries, but there has been a change in the direction of protecting children from some harm.

However, ultimately, I could only see a society that truly protects those who may need it coming about if there were some serious research done into the background of predatory behaviour, and some major changes to the systems of education and public spending and policing. There is a lack of awareness of the reality of violent crime in the minds of the general public, and there is a lack of knowledge allowing the recognition of problem areas.

One of the commonest responses I heard after the most recent attack was "I can't believe anyone would attack someone in a wheelchair." I said "Well, I can believe it. It's called an easy target." Friends were genuinely shocked. How can people think about combating something they don't believe exists?

mellowgator, on Mar 12 2010, 04:02 PM, said:

traveling blackbird,
you certainly have a kind compassionate outlook on things after all you suffered. my hat is off to you.

I've had a lot of support from friends and a very good therapist, and I've learned to look at the whole of what happened to me. I found it helped to try to understand it - not to forgive or forget the hurt that was done to me, but to understand why it happened and look for ways to stop it happening again.

Wheelsonfire, on Mar 12 2010, 05:24 PM, said:

I too ended up in the chair because of the cowardice of two scumbags who jumped me from behind when working security.

I disagree with the whole victim mentality though, I now have the strength to rip a man limb from limb and the aggression to be able to do it while smiling at him, please God someday someone will attempt to attack my gimpness and I can assure you he will pray for a complete SCI so he won't feel anymore pain.

I am unable to work towards that kind of strength, so instead I have chosen self-defense - wing-chun, specifically - as my way of ensuring that I will not be as easy a target again. I encourage everyone who is in any way likely to attract the attention of a predator to seek their way of defending themselves.

I would not call it a victim mentality to acknowledge that we can be attacked; nor is it thinking like a victim to recognize that someone who is looking for a target is more likely to pick someone who they think won't be able to fight back.

My self-defense teacher has often told me that even he, if surprised and attacked from behind, could be hard pressed to defend himself. He has told me to train my awareness, and to train my body to react as fast as I can.

He has also told me that the very fact that I would try to defend myself is probably enough to make an attacker back off: if I can block, punch, punch, block, that could give me the time to get away or shout for help. Sure, I have fantasy moments where I dream that if I ever get attacked again, I'll put the attacker in a full body cast in revenge for everything that ever happened to me. However, realistically, I'll be happy to just get out of the situation without further injury.

gordonr, on Mar 12 2010, 06:43 PM, said:

However strong you may be there are others who will be unable to duplicate that strength. And we have a responsibility to those as well.

Well said.

[Wheelsonfire]

Gordon,

"Militia's are only bad when they are exclusive and partisan, which is why the KKK and the IRA are bad. But if the militia is the true volontary reflection of the population itself, then it's actions will be a faithful reflection of the standards of that population."

There is a fundamental difference between these two groups, the KKK reflects the colony of rats I spoke of in an earlier reply to you, The Provo's on the other hand are a freedom movement, for centuries now there has been conflicts worldwide as Britannia tried to rule the waves, your own home ground were lucky enough to rid itself of the venom inflicted, 1775–1783 with the help from the French ye found success, and received a gift from these Frenchies that still stands proudly in New York Harbour.

Freedom movements in Ireland, I.R.A, I.P.L.O, I.N.L.A, the real I.R.A, the continuity I.R.A all stem from the I.R.B.
Groups generated after the I.R.A were where the hard-liners in disagreement with the route been taken, disbanded to create the next and so on. Probably one of the best versed groups of guerrilla warfare on the planet.
Their main goal is to regain the 6 counties up north that the British government are reluctant to release.....Tiocfaidh ár lá (meaning "our day will come")


Travelling Blackbird

"I am unable to work towards that kind of strength, so instead I have chosen self-defense - wing-chun, specifically - as my way of ensuring that I will not be as easy a target again. I encourage everyone who is in any way likely to attract the attention of a predator to seek their way of defending themselves.

I would not call it a victim mentality to acknowledge that we can be attacked; nor is it thinking like a victim to recognize that someone who is looking for a target is more likely to pick someone who they think won't be able to fight back."

Wing-chun was an art that Bruce lee focused on, this is a discussion I had some months back with a friend of a friend who spent years perfecting his skill with the true masters of Asia ,,,,was Bruce a true martial artist, contrary to popular belief, no, he was an actor versed in choreography. Would his talent stand up against a true martial artist who used the technique as a fighter, no. This is an opinion many true martial artists hold. American footballers have been influenced as of late to practice this form to better their game. Here is a link from home that might interest you http://www.siairl.or...ceWeekend09.htm

All predators seek vulnerabilities in their intended victims. Whether you are skilled in the art of Wing-chun or not you are still going to be an easy target, I am in the same boat as you, the elderly, the frail, the innocence of children are all targets for those intent in causing harm, there is no class distinction here. I have chosen a route where defence is the furthest thing from my mind, if I am to be confronted, my wheelchair will be used as a spring board and then lets reverse the roll of who can become a defenceless victim.


"My self-defense teacher has often told me that even he, if surprised and attacked from behind, could be hard pressed to defend himself. He has told me to train my awareness, and to train my body to react as fast as I can."

This is a great outlook in theory, real life unfortunately doesn't follow the script.
Example;

As an AB, I worked out with weights, I practised the art of Karate-do and was well able to handle myself, I was built like a brick wall, did I wear a label "possible target" yes, why? Because every man, woman and child can become a victim at the hands of another.

Attacked from behind, sustained multiple stab wounds (50-60 surgeons told me), entrance wounds to the back created exit wounds to the front of the body, I won't bore you with the rest, lets just say it hurt a bit. Irish security guards have a lot to contend with, to quote from a little Austrian gentleman with the funny moustache when he was extending his front garden from 1939-1945. " The Irish, no we will not go there, put a tin roof over the country and it would be an insane asylum"


"He has also told me that the very fact that I would try to defend myself is probably enough to make an attacker back off: if I can block, punch, punch, block, that could give me the time to get away or shout for help."

I have to disagree with your defence teacher on that one.

If someone is intent in causing harm, acting peacock like will only add bouts of handbag slapping, aggression would be the way forward, give him the reason to run away or shout for help as your wheelchair is been used as a weapon to instil a lasting memory.

"Sure, I have fantasy moments where I dream that if I ever get attacked again, I'll put the attacker in a full body cast in revenge for everything that ever happened to me."

This screams of victim mentality, the rape victim who ponders over the demise of a fictitious oppressor who has yet to show itself, readying herself to be victimised yet again .
The victim of an assault who choreographs each and every move, forecasting further assaults because he/she has labelled themselves subconsciously as a victim.
Once closure is achieved it makes it easier for a "victim" to move on and discard the "label", for some this is unachievable.

As in my reply to Gordon, the "perfect world theory" is something that is placed at the bottom of the wish list, pity.

Regards

John

Edited by Wheelsonfire, 15 March 2010 - 01:47 AM.

[Wheelsonfire]

Yet again, this issue is global.

I think Beverly has the right idea in carrying protection.
Unfortunately Irish law prohibits this.

Second amendment to the United States constitution should be encouraged and cemented to the preamble of constitutions world wide, or at least incorporated into the disability act's.

http://seattletimes....d_robbed_o.html

[edlee]

Why is this so hard to figure out? It is within us all,,, most of us resist it,, but "man" is a predator. One need only notice the eye placement to see where we belong on the pedator/prey list.

There will ALWAYS be those among us, who choose to force their will upon others. Some for gain,, some for the fun of it. It's not neccessary to teach it,,, watch young children at play,,, they have to be taught NOT to force their will on others,,, or to "share".

Gordon might believe that we have "evolved" past all that,,, but don't you believe it. Instinctually, we still believe in the law of the jungle. It is only through our cultural upbringing that the majority of us resist what our instincts tell us to do. But that is only the majority,,, there will always be that minority who will react as nature intended,, and that smaller minority who find pleasure in doing it.

Militias protecting the weak,,, give me a break. The reason the KKK was so strong in some parts of the country, was because their beliefs were mainstream in thse places. No matter where you choose to start your militias,, their values will be mainstream for that area,, and their actions will reflect that. It is those values,, however skewed from those of the rest of the country's,, that will decide who is "weak" or deserving of their protection.

They already have "militias" in most big cities in the states,,, they're called gangs,,, perhaps you've heard of them,,, they are groups of people who have joined together to protect themselves and their territories,, have armed themselves,, and who carry out "operations" against those they feel threaton their way of life.

You say "police states" as if it were a bad thing,,, in fact, that's the ONLY way of protecting the weak. The problem that has given the concept a bad name is,,, who controls the police.

Gotta go,, it's pool night.
ed

[Wheelsonfire]

edlee, on Mar 15 2010, 09:35 PM, said:

Why is this so hard to figure out? It is within us all,,, most of us resist it,, but "man" is a predator. One need only notice the eye placement to see where we belong on the pedator/prey list.

There will ALWAYS be those among us, who choose to force their will upon others. Some for gain,, some for the fun of it. It's not neccessary to teach it,,, watch young children at play,,, they have to be taught NOT to force their will on others,,, or to "share".

Gordon might believe that we have "evolved" past all that,,, but don't you believe it. Instinctually, we still believe in the law of the jungle. It is only through our cultural upbringing that the majority of us resist what our instincts tell us to do. But that is only the majority,,, there will always be that minority who will react as nature intended,, and that smaller minority who find pleasure in doing it.

Militias protecting the weak,,, give me a break. The reason the KKK was so strong in some parts of the country, was because their beliefs were mainstream in thse places. No matter where you choose to start your militias,, their values will be mainstream for that area,, and their actions will reflect that. It is those values,, however skewed from those of the rest of the country's,, that will decide who is "weak" or deserving of their protection.

They already have "militias" in most big cities in the states,,, they're called gangs,,, perhaps you've heard of them,,, they are groups of people who have joined together to protect themselves and their territories,, have armed themselves,, and who carry out "operations" against those they feel threaton their way of life.

You say "police states" as if it were a bad thing,,, in fact, that's the ONLY way of protecting the weak. The problem that has given the concept a bad name is,,, who controls the police.

Gotta go,, it's pool night.
ed

I agree.

Police states will always encounter corruption, power goes to the heads of these individuals, to police the police, bring back the Eliot Ness's of this world and empower them with a shoot to kill policy........

[edlee]

But then,, who watches the "Ness's"
ed

[Wheelsonfire]

edlee, on Mar 16 2010, 05:38 PM, said:

But then,, who watches the "Ness's"
ed

Vicious circle!!

Everyman for himself?

[Slowlegs]

pistol_pete, on Mar 10 2010, 06:16 AM, said:

Then again, people like that hate everyone fullstop, including themselves.

Spot on. I think one of these scumbags was a kiwi, I may be mistaken though. Great ambassador - NOT, hope he doesn't come back.

[Wheelsonfire]

Reason for thread bump;

I am now in a position of understanding due to a different thread when speaking to Derek(Travelling Blackbird)**, realising that my capabilities differ from others in the chair.

Is it mentality? Is it capability?

We all have the capability of murder/death/kill built within our kernel, this is shown as far back as prehistoric man. I am not referring to the Dahmer’s or the Gacy’s of this world(and not prehistoric), I speak of one thing “self preservation “.

Adrenaline, endorphins that are released when one encounters excitement/fear, if one is of a pacifistic nature they might have a tendency to overwhelm the body to such a degree where the mind ceases to think logically, recoil etc, yet the pacifistic mind can be aware of the possibilities of reverse psychology(It works on children so why not a mindless thug). One word; Intimidation.

Mentality is a whole new ball game, as discussed Ed on the other thread, the mind bares superior strength to the physical, “the pen being mightier than the sword” boundaries can be pushed, expanded, this allows the scene to be set which will in fact determine who becomes the victim.

On saying that, I did not awake one morning to realize this, some will think I have just lost the plot, others will think I lost the plot a long time ago. But hey it seems logical to me!!

Soo keep up the martial arts training Derek and more importantly focus your mind.
And glad that you seen where I was coming from.

Regards

John

** If abbreviating your username you get TB

[Travelling Blackbird]

I get TB, you get WoF, which is close to Woof!, which is a compliment in some bear-ish circles. ;)

I'll keep focused. You too, mate.
All the best.

[Erik Kondo]

If anyone is interested in reading about self-defense and/or martial arts for people with SCI/D

they can download the free eBook
NOT-ME! Self-Defense and the Martial Arts for and by People with SCI/D from this link
http://www.not-me.or...fenseforsci.pdf