17 replies to this topic

[Rockupandroll]

I'll let you make your own minds up about this article. All I will say is that I don't agree with much of what is said but I'm quite strongly against the statement that wheelchair users are confined to a wheelchair and can't look after their own children in an emergency.

http://www.dailymail...alked-away.html

Rockupandroll

[guido]

Rockupandroll, on Mar 25 2010, 06:28 PM, said:

I'll let you make your own minds up about this article. All I will say is that I don't agree with much of what is said but I'm quite strongly against the statement that wheelchair users are confined to a wheelchair and can't look after their own children in an emergency.

http://www.dailymail...alked-away.html

Rockupandroll

Good article. Honest and painful. Communication has to happen for a relationship to survive. We get over these huge traumas at different speeds and the strain on those around us is massive. My heart goes out to both of them.

I do take issue with immediate defensiveness when anyone says something can't be done by a wheelchair user though. Sadly there is lots that we can't do. Sometimes this is overcome by dogged focus and more often than not it's achieved with the help of ABs. In an emergency, it's perfectly conceivable that we couldn't look out for a child. His are very serious injuries, different from paralysis. She was referring to their situation. Other situations are different.

Equally, I'm happy that there is lots that we DO achieve, including happy fulfilled lives, despite everything.

[S&W Winger]

My heart bleeds for her..."I, I, I...me, me, me" sounds an awful lot like self-absorption grown deeper into self-pity along with her attempt at justification...sure things are tough all over...but whatever happened to the "in sickness and health" part of marriage vows? Sorry, you guys are a bit more forgiving than my self-centered I, I, I, me, me, me...

AND that "confined to a wheelchair" thing just adds fuel to the fire...sounds like she's seeking the readers' pity...oh, poor girl, her hubby was confined, bound, strapped into, forced to live in, a dreadfully wretched wheelchair...yep, my heart just bleeds for her...

Maybe tomorrow I'll have a bit more compassion...but for today, I am reserving what empathy I have for Pete...

Edited by S&W Winger, 26 March 2010 - 08:55 PM.

[Ratticis]

Till death or I feel sorry for myself having to look at ttaht gimp bastard!

[Izziwhizzi]

Last night on C4 there was Air Hospital, an amazing documentary about British injured soldiers being air-lifted home in critical conditions. I think we are being totally hidden from by the number and severity of injuries coming home whilst the lesser fatality rate is used. Its not just the legs that are being blown away by the IEDS as their sophistication grows and even the dog shit is added to cause bad infections in the wounds, but genitals, stomachs, arms and faces are also being torn away.

It reminds me of travels to the states 25+ years ago when Vietnam double amputees were abundant. I'm sure some friends from across the pond can correct me, but the level of on street visibilty of Vietnam vets seems to have dramatically reduced in recent years as they have aged.

Back to this story, it def seems that support and rehab is lacking, cost cutting again through the disabled community.

Edited by Izziwhizzi, 26 March 2010 - 09:41 PM.

[Tinbasher]

Sadly this is not uncommon. Of the friends I had in rehab only myself and one other are still in relationships that survived the accident.

I guess that if a relationship has cracks in it already SCI is just the wedge to split it asunder.

[guido]

Life just is not as black and white as people would paint it. Some disabled people are w ers and some are total sweethearts. But it doesn't matter what your condition is or what you do in your work life, a relationship is a different ball game. Judging someone on little knowledge, no understanding of a given situation, and from your armchairs is a little, well.. typical of forum users. Thought Apparelyzed was a little better than this. Let s/he without sin cast the first stone.....

Edited by guido, 26 March 2010 - 10:47 PM.

[ClaraTaylor]

Of course it's all about her she's the one being interviewed. When Pete does an interview and we get to hear his side of the story with his I I I I than we can moan.

It's a well written generic article. All AB journalists use "confined to a wheelchair" it's meant to tug at the heart strings over other AB people that will be reading it.

[Scribbler]

Izziwhizzi, on Mar 26 2010, 09:40 PM, said:

Last night on C4 there was Air Hospital, an amazing documentary about British injured soldiers being air-lifted home in critical conditions. I think we are being totally hidden from by the number and severity of injuries coming home whilst the lesser fatality rate is used. Its not just the legs that are being blown away by the IEDS as their sophistication grows and even the dog shit is added to cause bad infections in the wounds, but genitals, stomachs, arms and faces are also being torn away.

It reminds me of travels to the states 25+ years ago when Vietnam double amputees were abundant. I'm sure some friends from across the pond can correct me, but the level of on street visibilty of Vietnam vets seems to have dramatically reduced in recent years as they have aged.

Back to this story, it def seems that support and rehab is lacking, cost cutting again through the disabled community.

IW. As ex RAF I made a point of watching that programme, which was excellent. I admired the dedication of the team of medic's, and certainly agreed with one of the medic's comment about everyone focussing on the number of coffins, but there wasn't a mention about the severely injured, who's families also suffer.

[Rockupandroll]

guido, on Mar 26 2010, 10:46 PM, said:

Life just is not as black and white as people would paint it. Some disabled people are w ers and some are total sweethearts. But it doesn't matter what your condition is or what you do in your work life, a relationship is a different ball game. Judging someone on little knowledge, no understanding of a given situation, and from your armchairs is a little, well.. typical of forum users. Thought Apparelyzed was a little better than this. Let s/he without sin cast the first stone.....

I think you make an intersting point and whilst you don't want to judge based on a one-sided article it does provoke thoughts and sympathy for people who become paralysed or other disabilities and then see their family life suffer. Fortunately I'm in a very happy and fulfilling relationship but I have had experiences where people have said that because of the chair they wouldn't want a relationship with me.

What I did think was moving was some of the near 300 comments at the bottom of the article from people who have responded to say that they have met people in chairs and have wonderful relationships.

[dom]

I think we cannot really judge it as it's only an article and we can't see the whole marriage interactions
a lot may have to do with lack of communication rather than the physical disability,obviously without communication most things die.
Maybe he agreed to the divorce as well? i'd love to hear his side of events

[Courtney]

I hate to be ugly, but I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for this woman....

[evilmac64]

Courtney, on Mar 29 2010, 02:35 AM, said:

I hate to be ugly, but I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for this woman....

i find my self having little or none but you do need both sides

[S&W Winger]

guido, on Mar 26 2010, 06:46 PM, said:

Life just is not as black and white as people would paint it. Some disabled people are w ers and some are total sweethearts. But it doesn't matter what your condition is or what you do in your work life, a relationship is a different ball game. Judging someone on little knowledge, no understanding of a given situation, and from your armchairs is a little, well.. typical of forum users. Thought Apparelyzed was a little better than this. Let s/he without sin cast the first stone.....

Very nice, polite, impartial, thoughtful reply...enjoy your usual well-thought-out responses, including this one...


...however...from my armchair, things look a little different(-ly) than from your's...


...when I found out that my ex- was diagnosed with colon cancer, I immediately "felt" bad for the SOB...then I "thought" to myself, and later admitted to others: "Thank G_d the diagnosis was well after I escaped" (left) or else I would've ["felt" that I ] had to stay, and play the dutiful wife until the bitter end...and I would have, since that would've been the "right" thing to do, regardless of our situation, the past, and my own selfish yearning for a better Life, as there would be time for that later...


...stripping Life to the bear bones, this to me is what happens with major crises...those other seemingly important issues fall away, and what remains is the essential: a spoon, a bowl, a cooking pot...a hand, the means to eat...another's hand, the help, if needed...usually little time for an intellectual discourse, or the luxury of analyses...leaving the "both sides" for someone else to ponder or another time...


...and some situations cancel out others, or rather, "all things being equal" in the end...or are humans so self-centered, that it's either a martyr syndrome, guilt, or perhaps even greed, that motivate the seemingly "good" people to act as they do, thus relegating everyone on the planet to self-serving status? Not sure if even my cynicism can extend that far...

Courtney, on Mar 28 2010, 10:35 PM, said:

I hate to be ugly, but I have absolutely no sympathy whatsoever for this woman....

Love your beautiful, thoughtful honesty...

[DannyR]

I tell friends that there is no way anyone can truly know what someone who is disabled goes through unless you have been there. I would think the same would apply to this lady. I know that over the past year and a few months I have learned to look at things a lot different. We all know to look at one another doesn't even begin to tell the whole story. People are not raised with the same morals and values that parents taught us 30 or 40 years ago when we had 1 parent home all the time. Material things and it's what's in it for me seems to be what is important in life. I hope this lady finds what shes looking for...maybe she would have found it with her husband if she had given him a chance to come home.

[guido]

Today I went to a funeral. The person died of cancer. I went to support their partner who is a life long friend. I had never found the deceased good or easy company. From my side, the deceased person had not been a good partner and had caused so many problems, but for various reasons they had stuck it out in the same house. The service was actually a very good service and showed a side to him I knew nothing about, by people who were very fond of him.

I like funerals because they make me think. Think about being alive and the opportunities life offers me before I end up in the box, and what I should strive to achieve to get a decent send off myself.

Today I wondered if separation and divorce shouldn't be forces for good. There is such stigma attached to it, and we judge it so quickly. But there's an awful lot of people doing it. Yes I do think we should work to stay together. And yes I do think that children are best brought up in a secure environment. But no I don't think 2 decent people bringing the worst out of each other is a good thing.

And I come back to my earlier statement: some disabled people can be miserable w rs and some can be sweethearts. I don't think anyone has a right to believe that whatever they've been struck by entitles them to make unreasonable demands on anyone else. If 2 people love each other, and are kind, then OF COURSE relationships are great despite disability - I'm in one and I ADORE my girl. And sometimes people go through a patch and the other has to be patient. But for how long does one have to be patient and what does one have to endure in that time? Silence, lack of affection or gratitude, abuse, unreasonable demands, thoughtlessness. It's tough because we all come to terms with something in different ways and at different speeds. But none of us knows what the future holds or where breaking point is.

I don't mean to be polite or impartial S&W Winger: those who know me will tell you how opinionated and difficult I can be. And with so many friends in the forces, I am totally pro them and what they do every day of an operational life. But I'm simply saying that life is never just black and white. There probably isn't a good guy or a bad guy in that story, just two people who are really struggling, and somewhere in that struggle, they have stopped being the people to help each other through that struggle.

When things get bad, sometimes they have to get worse before we do something about it to make them good again.

[gordonr]

guido, on Mar 30 2010, 09:56 PM, said:

But I'm simply saying that life is never just black and white. There probably isn't a good guy or a bad guy in that story, just two people who are really struggling, and somewhere in that struggle, they have stopped being the people to help each other through that struggle.

Guido,

That was a very nice post.

I didn't quote the parts about unreasonable demands, because we all (well most of us) are very hard on the archetypical Whining Gimp. We hate that part of ourselves and we react vehemently when we see it in others.

Therefore we tend to sympathize with those people who are forced through the bonds of nature to deal with these unreasonable Whining Gimps.

On the OTHER HAND, we should be able to recognize that there are also people who would not stay with ANY disabled or otherwise dependent partner, simply because their own sense of self-entitlement would not allow them to do so.

And this reaction is NOT automaticaly a reaction to events. It is also a philosophical choice. In fact, it is a well articulated philosophical choice. In the sixties, one variant of the hippi drop out ideal was articulated in France under the title of "Refus Globale". Roughly stated, this was a conscious rejection of any and all social responsibilities. That is, the responsibility to work, to care for one's children, and so forth and so on. It is a philosophical position defending the intrensic worth of the individual, who, as the reasoning goes, should be allowed to devote his/her entire energy to the pursuit of his own interests without owing any explanation to anybody.

The French being what they are, intellectual movements take a different form from the States, and the Manifesto of the Refus Globale, was publicly signed and published by many of the leading artists, and academics and politicians of that generation.

So, when you meet somebody, you are quite right to ask, "How far are you ready to go in the compromise with your own unfettered individuality?"

"Is your commitment to relationship merely until somebody gets hurt? Until bankruptcy? Until preganancy? Or what? Does the whole thing depend on your (as now) imprevisible future whim?"

These are questions which are worth asking of ourselves, as well as of others. And they are questions which have already been asked and answered very honestly by people such as those who signed the Refus Globale.

My personal take on this, is that a person who jumps ship as things get difficult, has as yet not become fully adult, because adult personality is essentially defined by responsibility. And in that view, the refusal to accept the difficulties is in fact the refusal of the opportunity to become a greater and deeper adult personality.

I understand the philosophical nuance. I understand that others would disagree. But I believe that people should be willing, up front, to at least attempt to answer honestly, (to themselves and to others), as to what sort of people they are, and what sort of philosophy they embrace.

Best Regards,

Gordon

Edit: I was writing this from memory and felt curious enough to call up the text of the Refus Globale manifesto, and it turns out I made a couple of mistakes. It was earlier than the sixties (1948) and it was not French, but French Canadian. The main signatories were artists of one kind or another.

Edited by gordonr, 31 March 2010 - 02:42 AM.

[airart1]

been there, done that, got the divorce papers...............