46 replies to this topic

[driley]

I just started skiing this season with the adaptive sports program in Mammoth and I'm hooked. Next season I plan to be on my own ski rig.

So far the only rig I have used is the FF Pro Comp. Seems to work fine and I am sure I will be happy with it but this is a big investment and I want to get something that suits me well. I think that the Pro Comp, Pro Comp SS or Prasch should be fine and I have read most of the comments here about the two.... but have some specific questions.

I load on the lift exclusively without putting the ski in the loading position. It works fine for me on the Pro Comp. I am wondering if this technique will work well with the Praschburger. The bucket seems low compared to the Pro Comp. Also, in reading the manual on the Prasch, it looks like they recommend loosening the straps for the backrest when getting on the lift. Do you Prasch owners do this? The Prasch just looks awkward for loading on the lift.

Do any of you own or have tried the Pro Comp SS? I have not ready any posts from someone who has actually owned this rig and would like to hear some first hand feedback.

Is it any easier to get up from a fall on the Prasch because of the lower footrest and what appears to be a lower center of gravity? Being able to pick myself up is the one thing that I think is keeping me from skiing independently.

Any and all advice welcome.

[whippersnapper]

driley,

I'm in about the same boat. I just got a bundle of skis and intend to get a Pratsch or RPC-SS, probably the latter. Why? I've been using the RPC to good effect at my local program, though not with much mileage yet. AND, the company is a 4-hr drive (Tennessee!??!) from me--I intend to go in May. The good folks (a nice couple) who run FF say that nearly every buyer and every adaptive program is now getting the RPC-SS rather than the regular RPC, probably because of more adjustments like hip angle and better suspension. Finally, FF makes their own binding--no pictures, but I'll look at it. You should email them with questions. That said, apparently 95% of Pratsch owners love it, says an unconnected party. Anyway, I'll try to post on the RPC-SS after I try one out on the factory floor (garage?).

I hope you read the reviews at sitski.com also. There is a local guy who loves his Pratsch--I saw it new but the owner wasn't around so I couldn't try it. But, he loves it and skis very well, moguls, air, everything.

While I'm at it, look at this ski website, amazing prices:
Level Nine Sports

Check out the Head Mojo 103, $239/pair! Here's a review from TGR...translate that into how a sitski will do with all that force on it:
Head Mojo 103 Review on TGR

The folks at FF say to get a super-stiff ski, and the sitski bible says a long board as well (190-210cm, old style, ???cm in fat boards?) for adult males...yeah!. I certainly agree with that, I want a ski that gives me time to recover from an error, i.e. a stable board beneath.

I can't get up either. Working on it, maybe will make some kind of mini car-jack, I dunno!

Hey, good luck.

Edited by whippersnapper, 20 April 2010 - 04:42 AM.

[driley]

Whippersnapper,

I have considered that Freedom Factory being made in the US as a reason to get one. Interesting to hear that most of what they are selling these days are the SS models. I have not seen any videos or posts from anyone using one yet. Small community of users though. I like that they are adjustable. Getting stuck with a rig that is just not "right" would suck.

I have read the reviews at sitski.com but will go back and look again.

[qman]

i have skied the rev pro comp and now have a prasch.

these are my observations.

1. the prasch definetly carves better.
2. the FF is easier to ski flat so is good for power but only marginally better than prasch.
3. the prasch is easier to get up from ground and your COG is more central.
4. loading on the prasch is easier than the ff.
5. prasch sometimes get stuck in load position when unloading.
6. prasch appear to be better contruction and finishing.
7. prasch was more comfortable and fits like a boot, you are very unlikely to move as the seat wraps over you slightly
8. FF is easier to get in and out off than the Prasch.
9. there are many prasch racing on the olympics and world cup, and probably no FF.

although i ended up with a prasch it is fair to say i would have been happy with either for general skiing.
the prasch seems better for railing and racing.

No i dont change the position of the back rest strap for loading.

on either i would recommend a 175-185cm ski, depending on height. but stiff is good,
i ski a head monster 88 alot of the time and love it. it is a nice mix between GS sidecut and mid fat width.

190-210 would be way to long for most.
Also super fat skis (100mm +) can we weird also on firm snow and hard to rail over off the flat.
on soft snow they are great. Also make it easier to balance in lift line.

[Pete Anderson]

Qman's comments are right on. I loosen my bucket when getting on the lift so i feel more secure. Otherwise, it feels like I'm leaning foreward on the lift and I'm about to tip over.

The Prasch is very good quality, but is not made locally (within the states). Its about $1k more than the Freedom Factory (the last time I checked).

I, unfortunately, shattered both knee caps last March due to sliding into a tree. My left knee cap had mostly been removed. My right knee cap had to be wired together. Just my luck, after my accident, Utah started to get some big powder days...Damnit!

Keep in mind when skiing, your speed, and what is on the fall line, in the event you fall.

[driley]

Thanks for the advice everyone. Decisions, decisions.

How many of you can pick yourselves up after a fall? I can "almost" do it when the hill is steep. I'm 200lbs and it is the one issue that keeps me from being fairly independent skiing.

I like the idea of having a lower center of gravity so that it would be easier to get up from a fall. The Pro Comp SS from Freedom Factory has a lower footrest position but the bucket height is higher. http://www.freedomfactory.org/mmts.htm

The Nissin looks good but like everyone else has found, getting information about it is difficult. The distributor in the US is closer to me than any of the others, so there is at least the outside chance that I could sit in one before buying. Not sure if that would make up for the extra expense.

[driley]

Pete Anderson, on Apr 23 2010, 09:13 AM, said:

Qman's comments are right on. I loosen my bucket when getting on the lift so i feel more secure. Otherwise, it feels like I'm leaning foreward on the lift and I'm about to tip over.

The Prasch is very good quality, but is not made locally (within the states). Its about $1k more than the Freedom Factory (the last time I checked).

I, unfortunately, shattered both knee caps last March due to sliding into a tree. My left knee cap had mostly been removed. My right knee cap had to be wired together. Just my luck, after my accident, Utah started to get some big powder days...Damnit!

Keep in mind when skiing, your speed, and what is on the fall line, in the event you fall.

Pete,

I've been researching via the threads here and read about your accident. Ouch. Hope you heal up soon. I'll keep an eye out on the fall line.

[Pete Anderson]

Thanks! I really getting to enjoy the Lortab and the Oxycodone

I was dabbling at hang gliding after my first accident from hang gliding (7-7-7). But now after this recent ski accident I believe my parallysis has left me more vulnerable. I told my wife I will sell my remaining hang glider in an attempt to live a safer life. With 2 kids that we adopted within the last 3 years, my wife is really holding down the fort. She is difinitely "tapped out."

Like the guy said in the "Life of Brian," "Its only a flesh wound!"

Pete

[driley]

I went out for another lesson in the Pro Comp today. We changed the ski to something narrower and it helped a lot in the hard stuff. I was able to get turns initiated faster. Soon as we changed the ski I started falling when getting off the lift I think I am over that now.

The new ski was a Head Monster, 163 long by 73 wide.

The big news is that I got a look at a Praschburger for the 1st time. I would agree that the build quality looks better than the freedom factory. I also got to sit in it, but not ski it at the end of day. The seating position feels much more natural, or at least much more comfortable. So at this point, I think I am going to be looking more toward a Prashburger.

FYI, the guy riding the Prasch today had his setup so that it never locks into the load position. The shock/lever can't reach the locked position. He loads the same way I do but setting up 45 degrees to the chair as it approaches, grabbing the chair rail and hoisting up with one arm on the chair the other using the outrigger.

[outkastsl]

driley, you're on care cure forum too right? I thought this might be you. Qman is very knowledgeable about the monoski and you should check out his video's he posted in the forum.

as I mentioned, I bought a used RPC and am happy with it for now. I plan on modifying the foot mount so it's lower like the RPC-SS which should give me a similar seat position as the Prasch.

[qman]

[driley]

outkastsl, on Apr 29 2010, 01:57 PM, said:

driley, you're on care cure forum too right? I thought this might be you. Qman is very knowledgeable about the monoski and you should check out his video's he posted in the forum.

as I mentioned, I bought a used RPC and am happy with it for now. I plan on modifying the foot mount so it's lower like the RPC-SS which should give me a similar seat position as the Prasch.

Yep, that's me on Care Cure. I have been reading all I can on this stuff and have been mostly a lurker here but reading what Qman and and the others have to say.

[twisted_ophelia]

Love love love Mammoth, just came back.

From what I understand, the Revolution Pro Comp works better for smaller individuals. I'm about 100lbs and I love the thing. Was considering getting the SS model of the RPC but was talked out of it because the shock and my smaller size would be a problem. If you are bigger, I'd say go with the Prasch. The RPC is one of the lightest skis on the market right now and this is why it works for me, I can maneouver it better than a heavier ski. If you have enough body mass to control a bigger ski, that might be a better option for you.

Edited to add that the SS is used mainly for gate chasing. Lynn at Freedom Factory told me it's a good all-mountain ski but best for racers. My RPC order form has the adjustable foot plate option which I got. In the process of ordering the ski now.

Edited by twisted_ophelia, 09 May 2010 - 09:21 PM.

[qman]

yep, but for some reason (not sure why) you will see zero RPC or RSS in high level sit ski racing.

[driley]

qman, on May 9 2010, 02:25 PM, said:

yep, but for some reason (not sure why) you will see zero RPC or RSS in high level sit ski racing.

I think this is because for the aggressive/competitive skier, there are better options.

I think that the Pro Comp weights around 20lbs. Which is an important feature for people of smaller stature, who are looking for an all around ski. I know a very experienced skier who thinks skis like the KBG are very good competition skis. But he said most people do not want to be pushing and lifting these things onto lifts all day for recreational skiing. To have a fun day out on the slopes means getting in more than one run before your arms become noodles

The Prasch looks like it is around 26lbs. Certainly a crossover ski from what I can tell.

The KBG and the new HOC are both over 30lbs. Both of these seem mostly aimed at competitive or very advanced/agressive riding.

Disclaimer: I have only been skiing for a few months and most of my opinion comes from asking questions of everyone I can. I'll get back to you with a more developed opinion in a couple of years

I will say that if you look at off-road motocycles, all you see in pro racing is the latest model four stroke race machines. There are lots of other off-road motorcycles that fit the needs of other types of riding.

[twisted_ophelia]

qman, on May 9 2010, 05:25 PM, said:

yep, but for some reason (not sure why) you will see zero RPC or RSS in high level sit ski racing.

Probably because most people who do that are men and are bigger. As I said, the RPC is apparently best suited for women or for people who are light. I am really small and need a ski that is just as light, especially for my injury level.

It's really all a matter of personal taste and preference. I know a guy who's been a monoskier racer for years and he loves Yetis. I personally hate the Yeti. I know people who have the RPC/SS and I love it. Others love the Prasch and swear by it. Then there's the Kevin Bramble ski and now the HOC. There is lots out there (and most, sadly, cost thousands of dollars) but I think that many factors play a role in selecting a ski including what type of disability you have, injury level for us SCI peeps, physical size and stature, and ski level. And what you plan to use the ski for. If you're gonna race, you might want one type but if you're gonna be a ski bum, you might want another. Even slapping a different ski on the thing changes everything. And then it has to be set up right... the list is ENDLESS. Buckets also make a huge difference. When I skied in Mammoth in March, we spent time playing with padding in the bucket and taking out a piece here or piece there made a big difference. It's really subjective.

The HOC is definitely aimed at competitive/advanced/agressive skiers but I think it's so new that pretty much no one is using one yet. The thing looks amazing though! I've had only good experience with the RPC and def plan to continue to use one for the next season or two, maybe three, who knows.

It's easy to get cocky with skiing, lol. Until you have a monstrous crash and get some respect for the mountain. :-)

[qman]

dont get me wrong i enjoyed skiing the RPC. just an interesting observation that they dont seem to race RPCs.

[twisted_ophelia]

qman, on May 10 2010, 06:14 AM, said:

dont get me wrong i enjoyed skiing the RPC. just an interesting observation that they dont seem to race RPCs.

The two female monoskier Paralympians I know of actually use RPCs, at least the Canadian one does. I really think it's a size issue. You've probably got *at least* 50-60 lbs on me and it's strange how all the men I know who use sit skis looooooove the Prasch. No doubt it's an amazing ski! Is Kevin Bramble still making his ski? I don't think he is. Either way, a friend recommended getting a custom made bucket no matter what ski you get cuz for us SCI peeps, having the perfect bucket fit can make the difference between staying up and falling over. Like the Yeti I borrowed to use this season had a bucket that was an inch too big even with bulky ski clothes and all I did was fall over. The RPC bucket actually fit and the ski was all balanced properly and it made all the difference in the world. Even the type of ski on there is gonna make a difference. Oddly enough, I used an Atomic racing ski on the Yeti for a few weeks and did much better with that than when I switched skis to some Salomon thing and found it much harder with the Salomon. The Atomic was a high end ski so that probably made a difference, haha.

[driley]

I got to ski in a Praschberger all afternoon today. I liked it and it just happens to be for sale, so I think I have a new (to me) ski rig.

The only issue I had was loading and unloading from the lift. I definitely found it easier on the Pro Comp.

The suspension worked better on the Praschberger. It was probably just that it was setup for some that is pretty much the same size as me.

Ah, it just dawned on me what the issue was with loading. The riggers I was using on the Prasch were a few positions shorter. No wonder it it seem like I could just not get the lift I needed to load properly.

[qman]

great stuff, love the prasch.

you will get the hang of loading, i actually find it easier to load than the RPC.
I lock it up in the load position just before i move forward to the load spot. it is not easy to push in the load position but it is usually flat or slight down so easy enough.

The chair just comes up and bumps the mechanism causing you to sit down on the chair. too easy.

unloading i lift my outriggers up high and throw them and my weight forward to unload.

the only issue i have had is that sometimes the load mech doesnt release and i need someone to bump it to drop me down but have discovered it is very dependent on the type of chair. but there are some good fixes.

a buddy made one with some cord a small pulley and a biner. works a treat.

enjoy.

[driley]

Thanks for the tips Qman. The pro-comp I have been using has a plastic "skid plate" on the frame under the bucket. I think it is teflon. On the cushioned lift seats, I think it makes it easier to unload. The Prasch seems to feel really stuck when I throw my weight forward.

Below is a photo of the plate on the Pro Comp...

Edited by driley, 18 May 2010 - 03:15 AM.

[outkastsl]

devin, i think you're right about having trouble loading because your outriggers were shorter. when i shortened up my outriggers to test it out, i had trouble getting on the lift. everything else regarding my rpc was the same. you should be able to get some smoother plastic from tap plastic store or a store similar to that in your area and somehow bolt it up to the bottom of your bucket on your prasc.

[qman]

nylon chopping board would do the job,

i am sure you could pick one up from mal mart or something like that.

[driley]

qman, on May 19 2010, 01:13 AM, said:

nylon chopping board would do the job,

i am sure you could pick one up from mal mart or something like that.

Good idea, thanks.

outkastsl, on May 18 2010, 11:52 PM, said:

devin, i think you're right about having trouble loading because your outriggers were shorter. when i shortened up my outriggers to test it out, i had trouble getting on the lift. everything else regarding my rpc was the same. you should be able to get some smoother plastic from tap plastic store or a store similar to that in your area and somehow bolt it up to the bottom of your bucket on your prasc.

Yeah, the more I think about it, the length of the outriggers was the primary culprit. I think I am going to have to change my loading technique with the Praschberger.

[qman]

oh, and i forgot to say that when learning and on faster loading lifts ask the lifty to slow the speed of the chair down. not sure about the US but here (NZ) they are more than happy to help and it is very little problem for them and other users.

they can also do what is called a pull back where they reach from behind the chair and ensure that you are seated back correctly.

obviously detatchable chairs are heaps easier as they slow down.

[driley]

qman, on May 20 2010, 03:41 PM, said:

oh, and i forgot to say that when learning and on faster loading lifts ask the lifty to slow the speed of the chair down. not sure about the US but here (NZ) they are more than happy to help and it is very little problem for them and other users.

they can also do what is called a pull back where they reach from behind the chair and ensure that you are seated back correctly.

obviously detatchable chairs are heaps easier as they slow down.

Thanks... I have been doing the slow loads on the faster chairs. The operators at Mammoth have been great. With the Pro Comp, I never needed a pull back. I did all afternoon when using the Praschberger. I went into the pit the very 1st time I tried to load.

Per your suggestion, I will start using the load position on the Praschberger.

Hopefully I will get out one day next week.... then that might be it for the season

[outkastsl]

i still can't believe mammoth still has snow. did you buy the prasch?

[qman]

i dare say it is called a "load position" cause it is useful for loading in.
I wouldnt even bother attempting loading not in the load position. der

[driley]

outkastsl, on May 20 2010, 10:43 PM, said:

i still can't believe mammoth still has snow. did you buy the prasch?

I did buy the prash! So officially own a ski rig now. The guy who owned it ordered a HOC and I am letting him use the Praschberger until his new rig shows up. He is a volunteer instructor at the adaptive program in Mammoth, so he has lots of opportunities to ride. I get up maybe once a week and will use the prasch then.

7-12 foot base in Mammoth still.

qman, on May 20 2010, 10:57 PM, said:

i dare say it is called a "load position" cause it is useful for loading in.
I wouldnt even bother attempting loading not in the load position. der

Ha ha!!!

Pretty much from the beginning I was taught how to use the Pro Comp without the load position. It was very easy to just slide up the lift and pop-up, then glide off on the other end. I'm sure when I start using the Prasch "properly", it will be fine.

[qman]

yeah, infact there are a heap of RPCs that are made without the load mechanism.

once you work it out the prash is actually easier to load IMHO.

the only really problem i have encountered is with the load mech not releasing during unloading on certain types of chairs.
but there are some easy fixes

Q