30 replies to this topic

[greybeard]

I don't feel excluded, but if it's on the news, it MUST be true.

See the BBC news item HERE

[mahmutkaplan]

greybeard, on 01 September 2010 - 06:18 AM, said:

I don't feel excluded, but if it's on the news, it MUST be true.

See the BBC news item HERE

I don't feel excluded or embrassed in abled people. There is main problem why abled people don't invite disabled persons in their activities. There is no guarantee they will be abled the rest of their life.

[dangerousdave]

I dont know if its society that excludes us or we them
What I mean by that is
If we dont put ourselves out there by joining in the various activities - how can they educate themselves about us - not a easy job as there is so few of us
I engaged in sports clubs and compititions when I was physicly able
After i go in a pub - i'm soon noticed by the polite excuse me then ram
I'm well known on the biker sceen for my attendance at all events big or small
My welfare office knows me all to well after i looked up a law and sued them
Social housing now take me seriously after i caused £1000's worth of damage to thier first housing flat
The police and courts don't know what to do about my quality of life attitude to laws

If we dont make ourselves noticed - can we blame thier attitude

[tyvin]

I think it's more about exposure. Before my accident as I recall; I can't recall 1 person in a wheelchair that I came across other then in my job setting. Now when I go out I see all kinds of people in all kinds of wheelchairs. They were there before I just never thought or took notice. I believe it's great that studies about exposing more handicapped people to society are being done.

[cathie]

You're only excluded if you allow yourself to be. I was being excluded from the job market by being told don't bother there is nothing you can do for work anyway. This has since been dealt with, but if you allow people to think that you can't do things you will be excluded. I don't say I can't do things, just that I do them in a different way to able bodied people, even if it does mean asking for help. Everyone needs help with something.

[Lucydog]

I find that with small children, like it or not I am regularly excluded, mostly through little or no physical access.
We chose my sons school on the basis that I can get into it. The 2 nearest have virtually no access for me. Kids parties take place in venues up flights of stairs, and we regularly get invites to open parties at friends houses that take no account of the fact its going to be very difficult for me to get in. given how we have lots of events in fields as well round here, I find I dont get to a lot of the kids events. Yes I could point it out and make a bit of a fuss but I dont think its appropriate at a party event. Fortunatly my husband is a party animal and takes them, although it would be easier if I could sometimes.

[S&W Winger]

Like it or not, believe it or not, admit it or not: as a Lifelong member of the marginal of society, I would Love to be the first to welcome you to the ranks of the marginal! We, those on the outside looking in, are blessed with a unique power of observation: we are ABLE to see the workings of society from the perspective of the participant/observer...we are now ABLE to see the overall picture and report on it...we are ABLE to note how difficult it is for us and others like us to access most places...we are ABLE to bring about positive change(s) in the World and help others...we are ABLE to bring this unique perspective to everyone and help change their vision...we are ABLE to make many aspects of Life better not just for ourselves, but for everyone...

Oh, and to answer the question: YES, marginal people are excluded from mainstream society, and it is up to us to make our way in...this usually means making changes withIN society to allow our welcoming...

[rue2you]

S&W Winger, on 01 September 2010 - 12:53 PM, said:

Like it or not, believe it or not, admit it or not: as a Lifelong member of the marginal of society, I would Love to be the first to welcome you to the ranks of the marginal! We, those on the outside looking in, are blessed with a unique power of observation: we are ABLE to see the workings of society from the perspective of the participant/observer...we are now ABLE to see the overall picture and report on it...we are ABLE to note how difficult it is for us and others like us to access most places...we are ABLE to bring about positive change(s) in the World and help others...we are ABLE to bring this unique perspective to everyone and help change their vision...we are ABLE to make many aspects of Life better not just for ourselves, but for everyone...

Oh, and to answer the question: YES, marginal people are excluded from mainstream society, and it is up to us to make our way in...this usually means making changes withIN society to allow our welcoming...

Well said Bev!!

Much has been accomplished in history by the "marginal" person. Let's make ourselves known - make it personal to make a difference! (shameless plug here for my website)

Edited by rue2you, 01 September 2010 - 02:17 PM.

[mcwriter]

This is a subject that really grinds my....you know. People live in their own bubbles and anything outside of their experience makes them uncomfortable, they resist learning something new, they resist adding to their life experience. Their comfort zones are limited to what they know and what they don't know they fear.

It isn't just the ignorance about people in wheelchairs, it is anyone different than themselves and it is a far reaching attitude. You see a burn victim shopping in a store and they receive the reactions like people walking the other way, or not looking them in the eye. You see parents with their special needs child and people stare in wonder but will only actually talk maybe to the parent and ignore the child or adult SN person in their company. You see Down's Syndrome adults with jobs, and you know these Angels love to talk, but people are afraid to have a conversation and say a couple of words and hurry away. You see a deaf person hand someone a note asking to be directed to something in a store and suddenly people will actually speak louder and back off as soon as they are done pointing the way. You see someone with a birth defect and people will stare and marvel at how they do something differently, but will they even talk to them? You see the teenagers treating one like they have the plague because they don't have the right shoes, their teeth are crooked or their complexion is bad. They make too much extra room for the person pulling their oxygen tank on a cart, or the person who walks differently, or because they have a disease which makes their skin pigmentation multiple colors. They talk slowly to the woman whose glasses are nearly an inch thick and she still has difficulty seeing, but not hearing! I could go on and on. People make assumptions and will go no further.

Is the answer to this problem 'Education'? A lot of it is, indeed. Some disabilities do require a physical alteration of structures, ramps and doorways, etc., which should be the norm. Not just for people in wheelchairs, but there are many others who can benefit from accessibility. Many others do not require the physical changes so much as simply the social acceptance. Integration into the social mainstream is not a simple thing when you look at the numbers. It is a continual fight for minorities to be heard and that's not going away.

Attitude and understanding can change with interaction. It's the bigger picture. Avoiding interaction only promotes ignorance. People with life altering experiences or just different experiences to life like the ones mentioned above are like Old Souls who through their life experiences have a broader outlook on life, who have figured out there are more possibilities to life and do have the unique ability to affect change whether it is in your own home your own friends, your neighborhood, town, etc. It starts with one person and like word of mouth travels, they tell someone else and they tell someone else. It is making the choice not to be in a bubble, making the choice to ignore the ignorance and fears of others, making the choice to be the better person by what you know and what you have learned.

That's my rant for the day. Remember that saying? When I ASSUME, I make an ass of u and me. That is where the battle is....assumptions.

[Wheelsonfire]

I have never had a dwarf in my house (Ed, breathe, relax, now let it all out, there there)
Well that's all I gotta say as the only thing I read was 9 out of 10 cats prefer whiskas........and then got bored..........Yawn, people come on snap out of it.............I agree with GB though and these people(the 9 out of 10) probably live on the tenth floor with no lift...............................

Edited by Wheelsonfire, 01 September 2010 - 03:21 PM.

[pinkcloud]

I found that people I knew personally took it real bad to see me disabled at first. Not looking me in the eye etc. They soon got over it.

I choose not to see ignorant people anymore. I just notice the nice ones. And have noticed a lot of people in the world do have manners, happy to start conversations about my funky walking stick and also complete strangers say how much they admire me when they ask what my scar is from and I tell them.

Its what you make it. Coming on here helped me no-end mind and I got the inspiration I needed for getting out there and living again from all your help

[qbounce]

I simply cannot get into all of my friends houses as many of them have several steps to get up. So, I have parties at my house and invite them here instead.

You can sit around and whine about not being invited to certain functions, or you can do the inviting yourself. This is true when going out also. Choose accessible places to invite your friends to.

Older buildings here are exempt from being WC friendly. And, if you were to look at the fronts of some of these buildings, you'd see that there really is no room for a ramp anyway. I've only encountered one such building, a restaurant. Several employees there, without hesitation, lifted me up a flight of 5 steps to get me in. I enjoyed a very nice meal with my friends, then was escorted out the same way. I was impressed to say the least.

I truly think this article is referring to those disabled people who do exclude themselves from society for whatever their reasons, whether it be health related, transportation issues, or other reasons along those lines. These are the people, of which I am one at the moment, who don't get out and interact with society enough, simply because it's difficult for us to, but not necessarily because we choose to be this way.

Of course there is always that small percentage of the populace who makes excuses regarding their condition instead of getting past their self pitying deprivation and finding the strength to move on with their lives, as most of us have already done. But I would like to think that those who can't hack this alternative life after a catastrophic event are few and far between. At least, I hope so.

Edited by qbounce, 01 September 2010 - 06:22 PM.

[LeahC]

Quote

Nine out of 10 people in Britain have never had a disabled person in their house for a social occasion, claims a survey from a disability charity.

Maybe they don't know a disabled person!

Quote

The charity's chief executive, Richard Hawkes, says disabled people are "invisible in day-to-day life".

I can assure you EVERYONE sees me haha x

Quote

And only a fifth of people in the survey have ever worked with a disabled person.

That's because some of us are better off not working due to benefits or can't work due to certain ailments.

[HiltonP]

The organisation which ran the survey is SCOPE, which is a disabled charity.
So of course they have to say we're marginalised, otherwise their funding would dry up and they'd be out of a job.

[pinkcloud]

HiltonP, on 02 September 2010 - 08:02 AM, said:

The organisation which ran the survey is SCOPE, which is a disabled charity.
So of course they have to say we're marginalised, otherwise their funding would dry up and they'd be out of a job.

Ahhhh very true

[Snakeye]

The problem is that until ADA the world had little consideration for folks in wheelchairs when it came to the construction of houses, building, sidewalks ,etc so areas and structures built prior to the 1980s mostly have poor access...When I'm out and about I keep an eye out for what's accessable and what's not so I'll know where I can go and can't. Don't like to be suprised..Visiting private residences is generally out.. and Walmart and most public buildings are in..Lots of cafe's and such are tough... I hate the two door system..(have to enter a door into a little foyer than have to enter a second one to gain access to the business)..It's a simple matter of putting some time and effort into educating yourself to what's accessable out there and what's not...

[wheelchairbling]

That article makes me wonder how they defined "disabled people". I'd be really surprised if nine out of ten Britons had never had anybody with any serious disability in their homes. Of course, they may not be able to get wheelchairs into their houses. But does that mean they've never socialized with people in wheelchairs anyplace else?

Of course, there are real problems with people being left out because they're different (and big problems with building codes, and access to public places). But that figure seems awfully high!

Edited by wheelchairbling, 07 September 2010 - 01:56 AM.

[dangerousdave]

A tale for you yanks
There I was in Dallas wanting to cross to the otherside to get to a trainstation
Across a multi lane cross roads with traffic lights
It had a pedestrian push button on the polls - surrounded by a high curb
Totally non usable for us chair users as there was no drop curbs to allow access to the button
So there i was dodging lanes of traffic and antisapating signal changes
I think it's known as sort of jay walking
So there in his black and white sat a astonished pair of uniformed guys, that were so amazed at what they were seeing, they missed there signal change a caused a comotion from the vehicals behind
By the time they had decided to assist me by stopping the traffic - i was across the huge mega junction
For those in Dallas - its the station thats under a hill, very deep and 2 lifts down to the platform

[JimG]

tyvin, on 01 September 2010 - 10:47 AM, said:

I think it's more about exposure. Before my accident as I recall; I can't recall 1 person in a wheelchair that I came across other then in my job setting. Now when I go out I see all kinds of people in all kinds of wheelchairs. They were there before I just never thought or took notice. I believe it's great that studies about exposing more handicapped people to society are being done.

Interestingly enough.....

I don't see that many people in chairs.

I recall reading somewhere that 3% of the population is in a wheelchair, yet when we go out......I'm almost always the ONLY one in the group, and the group can be as many as 1000 (like at church, etc.), where if you go by statistics.....there should be 30 of us.

We traveled to Chicago O'Hare airport last week (coming/going) and I don't recall seeing another regular wheelchair user (not talking someone who's using the airport's chairs to get to the gates) at either Salt Lake, or Chicago.

What that tells me is what some of the others are saying in that people with disabilities tend to sequester themselves away, b/c getting out is often so difficult.

Especially if you don't have a partner/caregiver who can make things easier.

[Parachute]

I've just read the report and I don't 'think' it's a load of rubbish, it is a load of rubbish.

Nine out of 10 people in Britain have never had a disabled person in their house for a social occasion, claims a survey from a disability charity. YEAH, I WONDER HOW MANY PEOPLE IN BRITAIN HAVE NEVER HAD A GAY PERSON OR ASIAN PERSON IN THEIR HOUSE? ALSO, HOW CAN WE ALWAYS TELL SOMEONE IS DISABLED?

The Scope survey, based on a sample of more than 2,000 adults across Britain, suggests public support for the rights of disabled people to be part of mainstream society is not matched by everyday experience. BASED ON WHAT?

It suggests people with physical and mental disabilities remain excluded from many people's social or work life. DOES THIS INCLUDE ANYONE ON THIS SITE?

The survey did not ask people why they had not invited disabled people to their social events, but a spokeswoman for the charity suggested that reasons could include worries about physical access and also an "embarrassment factor". WHY DID THE SURVEY NOT ASK WHY PEOPLE HAD NOT INVITED DISABLED PEOPLE TO THEIR SOCIAL EVENTS?

"It's not that people are nasty, but they might not know what to say. The less familiar they are with disabled people, the more the embarrassment. The unwillingness to offend can cause the exclusion," she said. A QUOTE, SO WHO SAID IT THEN? OR WAS THIS MADE UP FROM SOME ONE FROM SCOPE?

Mr Hawkes described the survey's findings as "shocking evidence" of the extent to which disabled people are pushed to the "fringes of society". I CHALLENGE MR HAWKES TO SHOW US THE SURVEY'S FINDINGS.

A FLAWED SURVEY, IF YOU ASK ME. IF YOU ASK ME TOUGH, HOW WOULD I KNOW BECAUSE THERE IS NO SURVEY TO BE SEEN.

[Beautiful]

Hm, interesting. Personally, I don't feel excluded.

[wheeliebear75]

Well of all the people "in my circle" I'm the ONLY one in a wheelchair. But although maybe I haven't got the largest circle of pals in the world my friends are some pretty good ones.....you know it's just so hard to "normal" persons for which to hang out with. J/K I've got a few friends who live in upstairs apts. so obviously the visits to THOSE friends' homes are far & few between.....but even there I consider myself fortunate in that almost all of my friends can give me "a piggy-back ride" up the stairs while another friend carries the chair up. I've got friends who have TINY front doors that I can't fit through & we have to take the wheels off to get the CHAIR through so I can sit in their living room......OK sucks but like I said I'm one of those "120lbs soaking wet" kinda folks.....actually I wish I weighed that much. Other friends have a couple of stairs to which so long as the chair fits through their doorway AOK I can have 2 people lift me+chair up those couple steps. And there is one friend who's idiot landlord put in LIGHT beige carpets so EVERYONE has to take their shoes off before coming inside & we just stick to backyard BBQs. Bathroom is the biggest problem......that one I have to get carried to the commode OR crawl to it....both slightly humiliating. BUT.....my friends are ALL willing to take EXTRA measures to TRY & make it possible to visit WITH them....several have rearranged their living rooms just so I can come to say "hi". Sure not every home is accessible in fact most are not....they often have to have some changes made.....look how many of us have gotten stuck in rehab centers or nursing homes til our homes could be made ready enough for us?!?!? Do I think that all AB's are this way.....sadly NO! I've just been incredibly blessed. My friends may not have "the best jobs", they may have troubles keeping their cars in working order......but they're wonderful people with hearts of gold. I'm certain that my friends would great anyone & everyone with open arms & would be just as willing.....my friends like & accept me for who I am despite "my problems" I'm not looked down on or thought of as "stupid" for getting things mixed up (in REAL LIFE it's waaaay MORE noticeable when I talk vs. typing/on-line) & they're simply amazed that I do as well as I do DESPITE "circumstances".

Society as a whole may need some really BIG nudging.....but not every AB has it ALL WRONG! The other thing is I notice myself that I was more outgoing & not nearly as shy prior to my accident.....THAT also has a lot to do with how many friends we have.....the shy AB people probably don't have a gigantic list of friends either. ;)

[rowena u]

Disabled people are socially excluded because of accessibility issues. Some times I often get surprise even my friends in high school forget Im a disable. I get invited to reunion in venue with stairs. In case I will go, Im the center of attention. Of course friends dont mind, but I do. But we disabled persons are sensitive because we dont want to feel we are a burden. We are full of pride, that some times we just stay at home.

It really hard to keep up socially.

[evilmac64]

you can whine get out and include your self

[dangerousdave]

you can whine get out and include your self

Cant put it better myself

[JimG]

rowena u, on 08 September 2010 - 05:22 AM, said:

Disabled people are socially excluded because of accessibility issues. Some times I often get surprise even my friends in high school forget Im a disable. I get invited to reunion in venue with stairs. In case I will go, Im the center of attention. Of course friends dont mind, but I do. But we disabled persons are sensitive because we dont want to feel we are a burden. We are full of pride, that some times we just stay at home.

It really hard to keep up socially.

As I've written before.....

We're not a burden.....we're an opportunity for someone to do something good for someone else and feel good about it.

I'm not shy in the least (never have been though) and I'll ask for help anytime I need it.

I've never been turned down, and many times (when I've been picked up after a fall), you can see in your helper's eyes that they felt good in being of assistance to you.


As far as the awkwardness.......we just have to smile about it.

For example.....my wife and I played/sang at her father's funeral last week.

I sit on a stool when I'm playing guitar/singing at church and I couldn't climb up the 3 steps to the alter where we set up b/c there were no railings, so I put my arms around my brother in law and his younger brother's shoulders and had them literally pick me up from my wheelchair each holding onto my legs and carry me up to the stool that was set up just before we started Mass.....in front of 100 people in attendance.

I had the look that it was no big deal, and a smile on my face and I don't think there was anyone there who looked at me with any pity (they certainly didn't act like it afterwards), and I treated it like it was just the way it is.

It's all about us, and how we deal/show it by how we're treated/looked upon by society.

[rowena u]

I am not really I shy person too. But Im stating, generally speaking that the situation had kept disabled person in a disadvantage social situation. That It requires a load of positive vibes to overcome it. That I have some in short supply though.
Sometimes I attend, sometimes I rather stay home.

[rowena u]

But I like the idea that we had been giving other people the opportunity to help us. That I said very positive out look. Thanks for that. I keep that in mind.

[dangerousdave]

it's all these silly AB's that are the burden with thier discriminating laws and steps and doors opening outwards and

[julibugs]

people come in all shapes, sizes, colours and flavours - I know many able bodied (normal) people who socially exclude themselves from life, i know a blind man who climbs mountains, one in four people have a mental health problem and many of these people are socially excluded by themselves or those who know about their diagnosis, i have friends with young children who I wish would socially exclude themselves and their offspring. I have a twenty year old son who has a bedroom that looks like a squat complete with numerous takeaway boxes in varying states of decomposition - he socially excludes himself from family life despite holding down a respectable job and earning a good salary. There is a man in my village who collects empty plastic bottles and has piles of them in his garden - I doubt that many people would accept an invitation to his house.

We are all different - some disabled by our circumstances, some by the colour of our skin, some by choice, some by not knowing how to ask for help, some by their need to use a wheelchair.

If you can't get in the front door maybe the back will be easier, if there are steps very often you will find people willing to lift you.

It is difficult to include yourself if you are different - when we accept that we are all different it becomes easier.