[wheelywendy]

hi does anyone know where you can find an uptodate list of crash tested wheelchairs? our local bus will now carry wheelchairs but will only carry ones that have been crash tested, so i wanted to check which ones have actually been tested as dad needs another electric chair and it would tell me which secondhand ones to look for
thanks wendy

[nomis]

Crash tested? Are they jerking your chain? I've never head of chairs being crash tested in relation to travelling on buses or other vehicles. Take it to your local newspaper or radio station.

[sh1wn]

I would ask the bus company, they must have some kind of list or else they wouldn't know who to let on. I have been on a few buses and had to use the state van service for two years before I got my van, and nobody ever said anything about my chair.
Shawn

[Trinity]

That's a new one on me too and I use buses A LOT!

Your average bus driver is not going to know one wheelchair from another, I guess they are trying to cover themselves in case something happens. I would also suggest contacting them for further information

[dangerousdave]

Just say Yes Dummy - next question

[Lucydog]

So do they have a list, maybe we could all write for a copy of this definative list. Perhaps we could enquire if the drivers will be all going on a wheelchair identification course ( at the companies expense ) so they can jump up and inspect a chair everytime someone gets on.

Which stupid company is this? Have you tried yuo take the bus and been refused yet? Id just love that one! Does this mean that all kids buggies have to be crash tested as well then?

[dangerousdave]

Don't forget - here in the UK you yanks - we don't get strapped in - we have to hold on to a pole or a check for dear life as the bus driver forgets we are there and whisses round another corner
Experiance our roller coaster bus ride for free in 2012

[randyorton]

I know Sunrise Medical used to have a list of crash tested wheelchairs on their site a few years back but i cant find the link now. Maybe try dropping the manufacturers an email? I know for a fact their recent powered wheelchairs are as a mobility store we were in recently was using it as a selling point !

Whether the bus driver would let you on there with a crash tested chair is another matter. I would assume it would still need to be properly tied down??

[dangerousdave]

if you think a buss driver here in GB is gonna get out of his chair - think again - you have more chance of meeting jesus walking down the road

[Apparelyzed]

Hi,

I think if it's been crash tested, it should have a CE mark.

However, crash testing only mean's the chair will survive certain stresses, it does not give an indication of the survivability of an accident by the person in the chair.

http://www.dft.gov.u...upan6168?page=4

Simon.

[dangerousdave]

However, crash testing only mean's the chair will survive certain stresses, it does not give an indication of the survivability of an accident by the person in the chair.

Thats why there is no sencible answer to this point oh wise one

[Rotarymotion]

The last thing we need is more regulation. Why can't these people use some common sense? The chances of being involved in a serious accident on a public transport vehicle are extremely small and don't warrant lots of extra legislation, testing, and therefore higher prices to the end users of wheelchairs. This is particularly because wheelchairs come in all shapes and sizes, with different adaptations, different balance points (CofG position), different size users, with different abilities. There is no practical way that you can predict how every chair/user combination will react in a particular accident, no matter how much you legislate and therefore how many extra barriers you put in place to just trying to travel around. People who don't use wheelchairs don't have to face extra barriers to travel.

Its hard enough to hail a black cab when you are in a wheelchair. What are the chances if, in addition to the extra time it takes us to get in, the cabby has to check the wheelchair type, model, and compare it with his "acceptable" list. It just adds to the reasons to be ignored because he "didn't see" us.

[crashcarson]

Oh goodness I laughed till I hurt on this Q!!! How wild is this request?? Gesh
Well then my dh reminded me that my chair in fact has been thoroughly 'crash' tested. (came by my screen name honestly for sure)

I was the crash 'dummy' as it were. ROFL I crashed into walls/support beams that help the house stay up. Tables, thought was in low----pulling up to the table and SMOOOSSSSHHH right up against the whole dag gum table. We have had to replace I am not sure how many door facings from me misjudging the openings and angles. And the list could go on and on!! sigh.

So you can put the perm-mobile down as thoroughly tested and found to be safe---well not safe from ME but safe over-all!!

HUGS
Crash Carson

[HiltonP]

Rotarymotion, on 06 September 2010 - 10:49 PM, said:

Why can't these people use some common sense?

Because it's not that common anymore . . .

[wheelywendy]

its lincolnshire county councils call connect service, i've travelled on buses in cambridgeshire, leicestershire and nottinghamhire and never had a problem, our dial a ride take any chair with no question, but these insist on knowing the make of the chair before they'll book a bus for you!! i'm trying to find out names of chairs that are covered but they wont give me a list!! mines an older make (but looks new as was stood for 6 yrs in a bedroom unused by its owner) so def wouldnt be covered but if can find out a similar one that is i'll tell then thats what mine is!! my mate can even make me the correct stickers, i was wondering if the storm or similar are tested as that looks a bit like mine!! lol
from what i understand it means more their suitability for being strapped down, but then surely that varies from the diffrent makes of clamps and the how good the person is at clamping it correctly in the first place, i travelled on this bus in my manual chair and with great difficulty transfered into a seat, my mum and 2yr old nephew were with us, nephew was placed in child seat, but his buggy and my manual chair were left completly loose in the bus not even a bunge to hold them!! then on the way home they forgot to put a child seat in so my 2yr old nephew was also not strapped in for the return journey and infact sat on my knee!! also my assistance dog was only attatched to a seat belt because i insisted he was they dont usually strap assistance dogs in i'm told, mine weighs as much as an adult so could do a lot of damage to himself and others if catapulted forwards in the event of sudden hard braking etc, not to meantion injuries to himself, yet it was fine to have a 7 1/2 stone dog loose in the bus according to them!! so much for their saftey measures!!
if i find out any more will let you know

This post has been edited by wheelywendy: 07 September 2010 - 08:38 PM

[Rossi-46]

crash testting of wheelcchairs can onnly be certified is at transport research labouratory or trl or tap into google for wheelchairs clasifed as safe to travel by transport or safe to be strapped down.

[sh1wn]

Here is what the ce mark looks like, little electric tape and your crash ready

[Rossi-46]

hi try out this web site with a full pdf file of all wheelchairs tested upto july 2009
http://www.rcsservic...y%20Systems.pdf
best of luck
you will be shocked at the results like i was

[swandriver]

I work for Swnarider, Bucks county Council's 'in-house' transport service. We mainly transport people to day centres and schools. Our vehicles are specially adapted to carry wheelchairs using Unwins' safety systems. I've been doing this for around 30 years.
in all this time I have only ever known one fatality arising from a collision and this was where a car pulled out of a side road directly in front of one of our buses. Sadly, the driver and passenger assistant were very complacent in their ways. the wheelchair was firmly secured, the seatbelt, however, was not.
The seatbelt used at the time was akin to a racing harness, with four anchor points securing a complete lap belt and two shoulder straps. the lapo and shoulder straps were not adjusted to suit the user.
As a consequence, when the bus stopped, the person in the wheelchair carried on at 30mph until they eventually hit the limits of the belts, at which point they would have stopped & dropped to the floor.

Rotarymotion, the chances of being involved in a serious accident are just as high - maybe higher. Because despite the fact that I drive at the posted speed limit, nobody can bear the thought of driving ever so slowly behind me - consequently, you would be amazed at the number of cars pulling out at the last second & forcing me to brake. You might be the number 1 driver in the world but everyone else on the roads is a nutter, and that's how you have to drive, you have to assume that everyone else has not passed a driving test.

There have been other reported accidents on our buses & the passengers survived but sustained injuries from their seatbelts fortunately, these were not life-threatening.
The subject of crash-testing is interesting because all transporters of wheelchairs should be using some sort of tie-down system - in the case of public buses, they tend to get away with it because of their constant stop-start - but I have seen how fast some of these idiots drive, even past my house, way over the posted limit. On these buses, they are supposed to have fold up seats where they can reverse the wheelchair into place & your brakes should hold you there - yeah, right. Whereas I have to spend a few minutes attaching four clamps, tensioning the straps (and I make sure the straps 'sing') and putting on the inertia lap/diagonal belt.
We are aware that many local taxi firms - although happy to transport chairs, rarely clamp them in, they simply reply on the chair being pinned between a seat and door!!!
We are constantly asking people to report these compainies but nobody wants to cause a fuss - mainly because these taxis are cheap!
The reason for crashtesting is really twofold - firstly, a good solid chair will stand up to being restrained (the cheapo chairs just bend) and secondly, if clamped correctly, it will stay firm & not fly around the vehicle causing more damage as it flies by in the event of an accident.
As for lists of acceptable chairs, I have a slightly out of date list at work but now all our referrals come through 'special needs transport' who look at the chair & check on their list. If it is OK, they issue a passport, a small green tag, which is attached to the chair - so all local companies benefit from this system as well.
By the way, if you want to make up little stickers to get a non-suitable chair clamped in, do go ahead, and while your at it, why not pick away some of the stitching to the seat of the chair & perhaps loosen off your brakes a little?

[redryder49]

I know the school buses here say they wont transport someone who dosent have shoulder straps, seat belt, and headrest on a wheelchair.

[wheelywendy]

Rossi-46, on 14 September 2010 - 11:25 AM, said:

hi try out this web site with a full pdf file of all wheelchairs tested upto july 2009
http://www.rcsservic...y%20Systems.pdf
best of luck
you will be shocked at the results like i was

thanks Rossi, very interesting and eyeopening, but no longer have a power chair as electrical surge has blown my electrics and they cant get the controller to reprogramme, had a quote for £900 to try to repair but not worth it on an old chair, was in great condition as hadnt been used by previous owner just stood for 5yrs but not worth reparing as parts no longer available for it

[swandriver]

I have a reasonably up to date (ok, 03/2008)list of crash tested wheelchairs which I have 'borrowed' from work (OK, I spent the afternoon sweating over the photocopier!) maybe the mods would like me to upload into a new thread which could be locked to the top?

The list is from Unwins, they produce the catalogue - I cannot find it anywhere on their website - although there is talk about manufacturers attaching a passport to chairs so everyone can quickly see if one is suitable for clamping. maybe if user groups approached Unwins for access to their master copy? We probably got our copy when we bought loads of clamping systems?

[paraarcher]

dangerousdave, on 06 September 2010 - 01:34 PM, said:

Don't forget - here in the UK you yanks - we don't get strapped in - we have to hold on to a pole or a check for dear life as the bus driver forgets we are there and whisses round another corner
Experiance our roller coaster bus ride for free in 2012

Sounds like fun! I want to ride one of those busses.

[swandriver]

Apparelyzed, on 06 September 2010 - 03:17 PM, said:

Hi,

I think if it's been crash tested, it should have a CE mark.

However, crash testing only mean's the chair will survive certain stresses, it does not give an indication of the survivability of an accident by the person in the chair.

http://www.dft.gov.u...upan6168?page=4

Simon.

The way we see it is that the clamps we use (Unwins) are designed to hold the chair as firmly as if it were a standard bus seat. I'm a bit of a safety freak - I take my responsibility over my passengers very seriously. when those clamps are secured to the chair I like to pull back with one hand whilst tightening the strap with the other - so it strains the heck out of the chair - but it is designed to be clamped. As I said before, I like my clamps (the webbing) to 'sing' when I twang it.
When i stand up from applying the clamps I also like to give the chair a good pull to ensure it does not move - in any direction.
In fact, the only p[roblem I have ever encountered was with a recent new chair on the market, the tyres are so soft that on cornering, the solid tyre can come off the rim!!!
And talking of cornering, my wheelchair passengers are far more comfortable than 'able-bodied' as they have the arms of the chair to support. But I digress. the 'survivability' of the occupant should be equal to that of any other passenger as the system we use incorporates a lap/diaganol inertia belt on the rear clamps. Where an occupant has limited upper body support, they would most likely be wearing some sort of support vest which utilises the chair's backrest to prevent the person moving forwards or sideways (usually held together with loads of velcro) so this should add to the effectiveness.

As for travelling on 'normal' buses, sadly, their drivers are not trained to the same standards we are, they just have to get round the route on time - which often means hitting a bad corner at max speed or accellerating away from a bus stop before the passenger has even sat down - and they don't care if you are in a wheelchair, are elderly or heavilly pregnant, they treat us all with equal contempt

[chrisarnold6]

They are just being difficult. Assuming that the chair is anchored correctly, and a belt is worn (in UK buses have the chair facing backwards, flush against a stop) the onus is on the motor vehicle manufacturer to provide the optimum safety features, as in reality, that's what will crash.

[swandriver]

I can't speak for the rest of the UK but even though we are the birthplace of the paralympics, our 'normal' bus service is still in the dark ages for providing wheelchair transport.
All I have seen is a handful of 'kneeling' buses (the front end can be lowered flush with a kerb) and ONE seat which folds up (so the wheelchair is pushed back tight into the seat) and the occupant travels backwards, holding on for grim death.
so, really, in a way, wheelchair occupants have some equality in that they are free to fall out of their seats just like all other passengers

That said, it has been good for local taxi firms as they are now buying more and more wheelchair accessible taxis, the downside of this is that they charge a b y fortune for even the shortest of journeys AND their methods leave very much to be desired.

[wheelywendy]

this gets even more bizzare!!! i've been travelling on this transport that picks me up from home in a borrowed lightweight electric wheelchair it was an energi make, an okish chair bit very lightweight and a little flimsey, but as its crash tested i was allowed to travel in the chair on the bus, however i now have a well built solid sturdy alber adventure chair, which is much better built than the one i'd been travelling in, but guess what........................................!!!!!!!!!!.............................!!!!!!!!!! i'm banned from the bus as they wont accept my alber on it as its not crash tested!! my mechanic then decided to lend me back my old aldersley mini excel as thats crash tested so that i can do my christmas shopping using the bus, sounded a great idea, until i rang them!!!!...................................................................
...........................yes they accept that the aldersley has been crash tested but guess what?!!!!!!......
.......................they wont let me on the bus with it as it hasnt been crash tested with the same make of tiedowns that they use!!!!!!!!!!! so determingd to regain acess to the bus i offered to get my carer to help me transfer from the chair to a seat so i wasnt travelling in my chair, they are happy for me to do that!!! but only on the condition my electric chair is then taken off the bus and transported in another vechile!! as they wont allow my chairs to stay on the bus!! so basically i can travel without a chair!!!!! maybe my carers supposed to carry me around town!!
it gets even better, i've requested a list of what chairs they are willing to transport but i'm told i have to buy a chair then check if its aproved by them as they are unable and unwilling to reccomed any particular chairs!!!! and i'm also told that the list is regularly reveiwed and subject to change!! so basically if u was lucky enough to find a chair they would carry it is always possible that a few months down the line it could be on their not accepted list!!! get the feeling they only want walking disabled and pensioners on this service???????!!!!!!!!!

[greybeard]

wheelywendy, on 30 November 2010 - 04:39 PM, said:

this gets even more bizzare!!! i've been travelling on this transport that picks me up from home in a borrowed lightweight electric wheelchair it was an energi make, an okish chair bit very lightweight and a little flimsey, but as its crash tested i was allowed to travel in the chair on the bus, however i now have a well built solid sturdy alber adventure chair, which is much better built than the one i'd been travelling in, but guess what........................................!!!!!!!!!!.............................!!!!!!!!!! i'm banned from the bus as they wont accept my alber on it as its not crash tested!! my mechanic then decided to lend me back my old aldersley mini excel as thats crash tested so that i can do my christmas shopping using the bus, sounded a great idea, until i rang them!!!!...................................................................
...........................yes they accept that the aldersley has been crash tested but guess what?!!!!!!......
.......................they wont let me on the bus with it as it hasnt been crash tested with the same make of tiedowns that they use!!!!!!!!!!! so determingd to regain acess to the bus i offered to get my carer to help me transfer from the chair to a seat so i wasnt travelling in my chair, they are happy for me to do that!!! but only on the condition my electric chair is then taken off the bus and transported in another vechile!! as they wont allow my chairs to stay on the bus!! so basically i can travel without a chair!!!!! maybe my carers supposed to carry me around town!!
it gets even better, i've requested a list of what chairs they are willing to transport but i'm told i have to buy a chair then check if its aproved by them as they are unable and unwilling to reccomed any particular chairs!!!! and i'm also told that the list is regularly reveiwed and subject to change!! so basically if u was lucky enough to find a chair they would carry it is always possible that a few months down the line it could be on their not accepted list!!! get the feeling they only want walking disabled and pensioners on this service???????!!!!!!!!!

That is absurd. It sounds as though someone is being deliberately obstructive, and that the threat of litigation may be your only solution. Why not have a chat with your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

[stillgotswag]

This sounds like some b.s. Crash tested.... I ride buses myself, and the real question is- Are the drivers licensed!?

[wheelywendy]

best of it is i used the service today in my manual wheelchair and after i'd transfered onto a seat they just sat my chair beside me and put its brakes on, didnt even bother to strap it down, same on return journey so the .... is gonna hit the fan!! also the driver told me they accept the small class one scooters on the bus and they definately are not crash tested!! i'm just waitingfor a reply from unwins as to what their recomendation for clamping is then i'm going in all guns blazing!!