25 replies to this topic

[quadinva]

By Marnie Hunter, CNNOctober 15, 2010 9:06 p.m. EDT
(CNN) -- Seasoned business traveler Johnnie Tuitel, a motivational speaker who estimates he's flown a half a million miles, experienced a personal air travel first last month.

A US Airways employee told him he was "too disabled to fly" alone, Tuitel said.

Tuitel, who has cerebral palsy and uses a wheelchair, had already settled into his seat when the airline attendant who helped him onto the plane escorted him off and delivered this news.

"Their argument was if something were to happen, I can't help myself or somebody else, which is an assumption first of all. Second of all, the people that made the decision are not medical doctors," said Tuitel, 47, of East Grand Rapids, Michigan.

"They basically told me I was too disabled to fly and I had to fly with a companion and I had to purchase that companion's ticket," he told HLN's "Prime News."

US Airways said for safety reasons, the airline's official policy requires passengers with severe mobility impairments to travel with someone who would be able to help them evacuate the aircraft.

US Airways spokeswoman Michelle Mohr said Tuitel was not deemed unfit to fly alone just because he uses a wheelchair.

"He did not appear to have the ability to assist himself in evacuating in the event of an emergency. He appeared to have a lot of difficulty moving," Mohr said.

The head of the American Association of People with Disabilities called the incident "outrageous."

"In some ways, I'm not surprised that it happened because there are still a lot of folks that assume that if you have a significant disability that you shouldn't be traveling by yourself," said Andrew Imparato, the association's president and CEO.

Rich Donovan, who is on the board of trustees of United Cerebral Palsy and also has the disease, doesn't see this incident as one of negligence or an intent to discriminate on the part of US Airways. He attributes Tuitel's experience to a lack of training and a lack of clarity about policies and how they're applied to disabled travelers.

"There's a general lack of understanding of disability amongst the entire travel industry, and I think that's simply because they look at it as a compliance issue, rather than a customer service issue," said Donovan, who is the chief investment officer of IPS Capital.

The September 23 incident on a flight from West Palm Beach, Florida, to Kansas City, Missouri, is the only time Tuitel has been removed from a flight in his 20-year career, he said.

Tuitel initially told CNN he planned to pursue legal action. Later, he told "Prime News" that he would not sue.

The Air Carrier Access Act prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. It is unclear whether US Airways' actions violated the act's provisions.

But Tuitel said he wants to make sure this doesn't happen to other disabled passengers.

"I don't want a little boy with a disability not have the opportunity to go somewhere. I don't want a young girl with a disability going out for her first job interview by herself to be told she can't fly in an airplane," he said.

Tuitel said that after he was escorted off the flight, he booked a seat on Delta Air Lines and had no problems traveling alone on that flight.

US Airways contacted him several weeks after the incident, offering to reimburse him for the flight, Tuitel said. He declined the offer. US Airways said it spoke with Tuitel on Friday about collaborating with the airline as it works to improve service for disabled passengers. Tuitel said the conversation was "very productive."

Donovan hopes this incident will be a learning experience for airlines and make customer service better.

"I think some dialogue and some hand-wringing and some getting down into the weeds here is what needs to happen so that this stuff doesn't occur again," he said.

[mellowgator]

well us air is off my list of airlines. what a slap in the face for all of us with disabilites.


mellowgator

[quadinva]

I agree Gator...Moreso I think this guy is refreshing. Turned down reimbursement, isn't sueing, and had a reasonable conersation with USAir. In a "sue-happy" time, this guy is admiral for fighting for change/respect for all of us rather than personal gain.

[tyvin]

Well we weren't there so perhaps he was having an off day and didn't look to good or the person who took him off was not skilled in dealing with passengers with disabilities. Either way it turned out well and brought some needed attention to the plight of disabled people who fly. I will venture that US Airlines will be more forthcoming to the disabled now that this has happened.

[jass1]

I was told too disabled to fly first class

[ButterflyInAmbr]

Ok, I'm going to resist the urge to go on a tirade here, but I'll just say that I wish he had sued in order to legally require them to change their policy, and to create a legal precedent for other airlines to follow. I've flown US Airways before, and every time they tell me that I can't expect any help from the staff if we crash. Fine by me, I've already survived a rollover in an SUV, I'm not going to worry about dying in a plane crash now.

[Snakeye]

What does one do in the case of an airplane crash besides putting your head between your knees and kissing your a** goodbye...In that case it wouldn't make much diff if you were in a wheelchair..

[Kippling]

This stupid beyond measure. When was the last time anybody heard on the news: "A transatlantic passenger jet flew into the side of a Peruvian mountain, luckily no one was hurt (because they could all get out their seats easily)". Stupid. I'll certainly not be flying with them in future.

[greybeard]

Kippling, on 16 October 2010 - 11:31 AM, said:

This stupid beyond measure. When was the last time anybody heard on the news: "A transatlantic passenger jet flew into the side of a Peruvian mountain, luckily no one was hurt (because they could all get out their seats easily)". Stupid. I'll certainly not be flying with them in future.

If every disabled person took that view, doesn't that mean this airline has won? Sounds as though they just don't want to put themselves out for the "difficult" customers. They should be forced to.
I'd like to see an endless line of wheelchair users at their check-in desks.

[airart1]

i'd sue the shit out of them, they dont cut u no slack when they charge u 100 dollars a fricking bag or 5 dollars for a bag of of 6 peanuts......thats bullshit.............how are u too disabled if u made it to your seat........boy i'd would have went off the handle...and too disabled to fly first class, come on.......and if the plane crashes, whos gonna give a rats butt the disabled guy/girl fricking burned to death, they darn sure aint, there worried about saving there own ass............man, how humiliating can one company be, how about ada, why dont they make there planes accessible? grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Edited by airart1, 16 October 2010 - 03:47 PM.

[edlee]

What am I missing here? There are already rules in place that cover this situation. First of all,,, if the airline tels you that you MUST fly with a companion,,, then that airline MUST foot the bill for that companion.

AND you can sellect anyone you choose,,, including any other passenger on that flight,,, and they fly FREE.

Seems the only problem here was that NOBODY had read the rules. I'm assuming that this was a domestic flight or a domestic airline. These rules I have stated are only inforcable in the US or if the flight originates here.

If you are in the US,,,, anytime you feel you might have a problem,,,, demand to speak to the CRO that's the complaint resolution officer. ALL US airports MUST have one either on site or available by phone, 24/7.

These are the federal rules,,, if you know them,, you won't have these problems. At least if you fly in the US, that is. Outside you depend on the kindness of others,,, just like Scarlette O'Hara.
ed

[S&W Winger]

Solid, sound info, ed!




Also these are probably the same people who would rather not see us at all...

[mcwriter]

"Customer" "service" representatives????

Let's see, it's not about the customer and they don't really want to serve....

What exactly do 'they' think they do again?

[Avocado Baby]

I had this problem with Easyjet. I had to cancel my ticket and book with another Airline. First they offered me a credit voucher. What, for another flight I can't go on? They suggested I gave it to someone else. Pah!! I kicjed up a fuss and managed to get my money back.

[Kippling]

greybeard, on 16 October 2010 - 11:41 AM, said:

Kippling, on 16 October 2010 - 11:31 AM, said:

This stupid beyond measure. When was the last time anybody heard on the news: "A transatlantic passenger jet flew into the side of a Peruvian mountain, luckily no one was hurt (because they could all get out their seats easily)". Stupid. I'll certainly not be flying with them in future.

If every disabled person took that view, doesn't that mean this airline has won? Sounds as though they just don't want to put themselves out for the "difficult" customers. They should be forced to.
I'd like to see an endless line of wheelchair users at their check-in desks.

I see your argument. Maybe I'm being selfish. It's just I'd much rather fly with a carrier, Virgin Atlantic for example, that caters well for SCI people.

[brianboru]

Look everyone this is a issue that will only get worse! Already Easyjet has brought in the same rule. It's only a matter of time before all the other airlines introduce this foolish policy. The term "Health and Safety" is being abused by the airlines.

We need to go higher than the airlines!

Does anyone know of any authorities??? that can say to ALL airlines this has to stop!

You can't be worried about whether connecting airlines are not going to allow you to board somewhere else across the world.

[Tinbasher]

New legislation supporting the rights of disabled travellers Regulation (EC) No 1107/2006 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 5 July 2006, now defines the rights of disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility when travelling by air. This new law is being implemented in two parts:

http://eur-lex.europ...6en00010009.pdf

[greybeard]

Tinbasher, on 18 October 2010 - 07:46 PM, said:

New legislation supporting the rights of disabled travellers Regulation (EC) No 1107/2006 of the European Parliament and of the Council of 5 July 2006, now defines the rights of disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility when travelling by air. This new law is being implemented in two parts:

http://eur-lex.europ...6en00010009.pdf

QUOTE:
(2) Disabled persons and persons with reduced mobility should
therefore be accepted for carriage and not refused transport
on the grounds of their disability or lack of mobility, except
for reasons which are justified on the grounds of safety
END QUOTE

There's their get-out clause. It was the one used against the OP.

We all know it's bollocks, but without the "grounds of safety" being defined in the legislation, airlines will continue to be free to put their own interpretation on the phrase.

Making a huge stink in the press whenever this happens will be a far more effective way of countering this discrimination, than poorly drafted legislation.

[Tinbasher]

And as I suspect you know GB the pilot of an aircraft has the same staus as the captain of a ship. Just a little above GOD.

[HiltonP]

I don't understand what all the fuss is about?

It has been standard practice for years now with airlines such as KLM, Air France, Air New Zealand, Qantas
and a couple of others that they will not fly unaccompanied disabled passengers. I know Paralympic athletes
who have been refused flights by these airlines because they were travelling alone. Why the fuss now over
some two bit US airline?

[brianboru]

Because the situation is getting out of hand! If we don't do something then all the flights will have this nonsense attached. What's next? Train travel! Sea travel! Bus services taxi services!

[edlee]

Quote

© If the carrier determines that a person meeting the criteria of paragraph ((2), ((3) or ((4) of this section must travel with an attendant, contrary to the individual's self-assessment that he or she is capable of traveling independently, the carrier shall not charge for the transportation of the attendant

There are anumber of other sections that apply directly to this situation,, but my cut and paste ability is limited. If interested,, you can google "DOT part 382",,, that will give you the whole thing. The point is that it's up to the passenger. If he doesn't think he needs an attendant, and the airline does,, the airline pays. AND the passenger decides who the attendant is,, not the airline. He can ask the guy sitting beside or behind him and if they agree,, they fly free.

If, for some reason, they manage to keep the guy off the flight, they have to send him a letter explaining exactly why,, not just "for safety",, but exactly why he was unsafe. Lawsuit city.

As in most things,, it pays to know the rules.
ed

Edited by edlee, 19 October 2010 - 07:36 PM.

[JimG]

Tinbasher, on 18 October 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

And as I suspect you know GB the pilot of an aircraft has the same staus as the captain of a ship. Just a little above GOD.

There are reasons for it and as a pilot myself for the last 30 years......you really don't want to take away the captain/pilot's final authority about the safety of a flight....this situation aside.

[quadinva]

JimG, on 19 October 2010 - 08:48 PM, said:

Tinbasher, on 18 October 2010 - 09:11 PM, said:

And as I suspect you know GB the pilot of an aircraft has the same staus as the captain of a ship. Just a little above GOD.

There are reasons for it and as a pilot myself for the last 30 years......you really don't want to take away the captain/pilot's final authority about the safety of a flight....this situation aside.

I don't think this situation (having a disabled passenger on board) brings into question the safety of the "flight", but is more the airline speaking to the safety of the "disbled" passenger. More than likely if youre in a plane crash youre either going to die or not, handicapped or ab. The airlines arent cocerned about safety per se, but moreso their pocketbooks. Frivlous lawsuits like the Chipotle one force them to. Id be happy to sign a waiver saying no one would sue on my bealf if I crash and burn, problem solved in my mind.

[ButterflyInAmbr]

It's an interesting point about them caring about their pocketbooks, however, you'd think that this particular instance shows that putting these particular rules in place opens them up to lawsuits about discrimination more than it does prevent them.

[brianboru]

Good news Easyjet has reversed their stupid policy. We can now fly this airline unaccompanied which is the only way sometimes. Easyjet has not reverted back to the simple booking process for the disabled but left it a little more complicated which also requires leaving your contact details so they phone you back to check your disability.
The consumer council pressurized Easyjet for a year on my behalf (there were other complaints of a similar nature against Easyjet)and we forced them to wise up in the end.
If anyone finds their service in the future difficult, please post here.