Losing The Will To Live (Another Variant)
#1
Posted 13 December 2010 - 03:22 AM
became para in March of 2010.
He has up and down days.
When he is down he:
1) Gets frustrated and takes out his frustration on me
by yelling and saying hurtful things, and as of today,
even throwing things at me and
2) Wonders out loud what he has to live for and wishes
he was dead.
I have a heart condition which makes it important to
keep my blood pressure down. I take medication and
also try to adjust my attitude. I regularly try to
impress upon him that I do not respond well to being
yelled at, but this has not dissuaded him from doing it.
He just feels guilty afterward, which presumably does
not help his feelings of lack of self worth any.
He is completely opposed to taking any kind of
psychoactive drugs, such as antidepressants.
He used to say that psychological ailments were
not real, and now he does not want to "get his
mood out of a bottle", something to do with losing
his identity or "because it's mine".
I cannot find any mental health worker who seems to
have a clue on how to deal with this. The other paras
we have spoken with advise:
1) He needs to find something he likes to do and
2) To give it time, a year or two from injury.
The social worker at Spaulding seems to know less
than I do. (I have a B.Sc. in Psychology but am
not licensed to do any kind of therapy.)
I work full-time. There are support groups which
all seem to meet in the middle of the day. Getting
time off from work is not currently an option.
I understand that putting up with abuse is a bad idea.
I also have great compassion for his frustration.
If I were limited like him and in pain all the time,
I would be pretty crabby too, and he is a more
independent cuss than I ever was.
So, can other caregivers offer us any advice?
We are located in the U.S.A. near Boston
and southern New Hampshire.
Mary-Anne
#2
Posted 13 December 2010 - 04:54 AM
Yes, he had suicidal thoughts. Doesn't have them now.
Yes, he did and sometimes still gets frustrated.
But he didn't use his SCI as a free pass to be a jerk to me.
It's a grieving journey and you both have suffered a huge loss. You can either make this bring you together or use it to tear your relationship apart. I'm guessing you'd like to keep your relationship together.
So I think you know all this anyway.
Here's what I did to help my husband with his depression --with his permission, I played some subliminal cds --i.e. relaxation, positive thinking, enthusiasm. These are all sounds of the ocean - you can't hear anything but that. You can play it really low. The company I use is called "The Joe Land Company" -look it up on the web. You have to play the CDs over and over a few days in a row. These are not that expensive and we found them helpful.
I did more than just this, but this was where I started and I don't want to overload you with too much. These cds did help him relax (and me too - we played them every night as we were going to sleep.)
Hope this helps. Good luck!
#3
Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:43 AM
Get him to exercise. It's very therapeutic and it allows him to let off some pent up aggression and energy.
#4
Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:07 AM
I have followed your posts with interest since you showed up, perhaps simply because of your location. I grew up in Nashua.
just my opinion, but I think being angry and acting out show a very healthy will to live. Claiming "there is no reason for me to live anymore", under these particular circumstances, is dramatizing. In a child we call it a bid for attention, though he could be bidding for his own attention. It is also true that sick people act pretty darned childish sometimes.
Neither my nor your analysis of his mental state are worth much. The only insight that matters is his own, though putting a pretty story on things can make us more patient at times. I shall try to find for you some similar threads where the advice is generally, "Leave the room."
Start here- http://www.apparelyz...__1#entry177762
and another-
http://www.apparelyz...ge__hl__abusive
Edited by Tetracyclone, 13 December 2010 - 08:44 AM.
#5
Posted 13 December 2010 - 08:38 AM
It may at times be hard but I'd support turning your back on any tantrums, don't get hooked into that game. As you know, he's in process and eventually will change his attitude if left on his own. The best you can do is to be around when he is ready to take on the responsibility of life.
Your number one priority is to your own life and health. Concentrate on your own needs while he carries on with his thing in the background.
It's a frustration but probably true that it does take time to get through these initial stages. I set two years as a benchmark. The first is chaos and the second is chaos sorting itself out.
#6
Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:07 AM
So yes, walk out of the room, walk out of the house, walk out of your Life for now, until that chaos IS sorted...
Come here for support...
Beverly
"A wild patience has taken me this far..."
#8
Posted 13 December 2010 - 06:23 PM
As an AB with an SCI BF, I, too, support, the "leave the room" route for now, till he starts to see that either (a) you two need to sort this out together, with or without a counselor/therapist/pastor, or (
Yup, it's a bid for attention, playing the "poor me, let's all have a pity party" game (been there myself, I have) and if you walk out of the room, what is the ABSOLUTE worst that can happen? If you're prepared to handle that worst, then get out of his way and go take care of yourself.
No one--BUT NO ONE--has the right to abuse you in any way, and throwing things at you is just too much--either walk out, or throw them back (no, don't do that...that's MY child inside responding! Ignore her, she'll go away).
Seriously, walk out, woman, again and again and again until he either comes after you and asks what he did or gets it on his own. If you need to get someone else in to care for him personally while you go about your own daily routine, then do it. Perhaps some of his frustration lies there, that he has to ask you to do things that he's used to doing for himself or used to doing for you and if he's as "independent a cuss" as you say, then he's got to learn to be independent again and it will do him a world of good, he'll feel like a man in so many ways again..
You've got to be strong and listen to the folks telling you to take of yourself, for goshsake's, woman! Trust me on this--I went to my pastor to handle a lot of stuff like this, similar issues (but never, never throwing things, just more "unconsciously" abusive) until I was able to get a handle on my own self esteem, then talk to my BF about it, and now, although we're miles apart for a while, we communicate as clearly as if we were in the same room all the time. sometimes that still gets garbled, sure, and there's junk to sort out, but we tackle it--TOGETHER--and I make sure I take time for and to myself for my own sanity.
So remove throwable objects, leave the room, get someone else in to care for him till he learns to do some for himself, go about your own business, come here for support, and for the love of mercy, take care of yourself first, or you're no good to anyone a'tall.
He'll come back to himself when you do...but it IS a long road, no question.
email and PM as needed, post, and check in regularly, 'K?
A woman is like a teabag...you never know how strong she is until she's in hot water--Eleanor Roosevelt
#9
Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:10 PM
I own the house and he has no money and no income and is not
eligible for a workable government program, so living apart is
not an option. Leaving the room is usually not practical.
Life clambers on.
I am at least as worried about his state of mind as about mine.
Counseling for him or me or for both of us seems reasonable,
but we have not had much luck in finding people who know much
about our situation. The level of cluelessness disappoints.
Groups tend to meet at times when I have to be at my job.
How does one find a good therapist?
I am not sure about the logistics of subliminal CDs.
He tends to come to bed at 3 in the morning long after I am
asleep and read until he drops the book, and there is no CD
player in easy reach of him. If he turned it on, it would
wake me. I can ask him what he thinks of the
idea but I do not currently see where and how to do it.
Mary-Anne
#10
Posted 13 December 2010 - 09:30 PM
Mary-Anne, on 13 December 2010 - 09:10 PM, said:
I own the house and he has no money and no income and is not
eligible for a workable government program, so living apart is
not an option. Leaving the room is usually not practical.
Life clambers on.
I am at least as worried about his state of mind as about mine.
Counseling for him or me or for both of us seems reasonable,
but we have not had much luck in finding people who know much
about our situation. The level of cluelessness disappoints.
Groups tend to meet at times when I have to be at my job.
How does one find a good therapist?
I am not sure about the logistics of subliminal CDs.
He tends to come to bed at 3 in the morning long after I am
asleep and read until he drops the book, and there is no CD
player in easy reach of him. If he turned it on, it would
wake me. I can ask him what he thinks of the
idea but I do not currently see where and how to do it.
Mary-Anne
You can play these CDs very low so you can barely hear them. You can have them on during the day too so they are in essence just background noise. I use them all the time in my office and just play them low. No one knows I have the playing. That's the beauty of them --these are the sounds of the ocean and you don't need to have it blaring. Your local book store may have some you can pick up. I found I like the ones I recomended to you because I prefer to hear the ocean versus someone's voice. I didn't make an exact schedule - I just played them when I could. They worked well for us. I will caution you not to listen to the "stopping procrastination" one too much as you'll find yourself wanting to stay up three nights in a row to make sure your house is REALLLY clean.
We still had to go out and engage in life and get through the dark times, but these CDs helped get us going in that direction.
#12
Posted 14 December 2010 - 02:50 AM
www.aliciareagan.com
#13
Posted 14 December 2010 - 11:26 AM
Mary-Anne, on 13 December 2010 - 03:22 AM, said:
became para in March of 2010.
He has up and down days.
When he is down he:
1) Gets frustrated and takes out his frustration on me
by yelling and saying hurtful things, and as of today,
even throwing things at me and
2) Wonders out loud what he has to live for and wishes
he was dead.
I have a heart condition which makes it important to
keep my blood pressure down. I take medication and
also try to adjust my attitude. I regularly try to
impress upon him that I do not respond well to being
yelled at, but this has not dissuaded him from doing it.
He just feels guilty afterward, which presumably does
not help his feelings of lack of self worth any.
He is completely opposed to taking any kind of
psychoactive drugs, such as antidepressants.
He used to say that psychological ailments were
not real, and now he does not want to "get his
mood out of a bottle", something to do with losing
his identity or "because it's mine".
I cannot find any mental health worker who seems to
have a clue on how to deal with this. The other paras
we have spoken with advise:
1) He needs to find something he likes to do and
2) To give it time, a year or two from injury.
The social worker at Spaulding seems to know less
than I do. (I have a B.Sc. in Psychology but am
not licensed to do any kind of therapy.)
I work full-time. There are support groups which
all seem to meet in the middle of the day. Getting
time off from work is not currently an option.
I understand that putting up with abuse is a bad idea.
I also have great compassion for his frustration.
If I were limited like him and in pain all the time,
I would be pretty crabby too, and he is a more
independent cuss than I ever was.
So, can other caregivers offer us any advice?
We are located in the U.S.A. near Boston
and southern New Hampshire.
Mary-Anne
Mary-Anne, my heart goes out to you. Heaven only knows all of us have seen this behavior. My hubby is C4/C5 Catastrophic since May 2010. Things are getting better now in that his outbursts aren't so frequent as they were, but they are definately still there. I'm beginning to wonder if we can really call this "abuse" on their part (even though it's miserable for us to endure), rather than part of the life process a Quad is going through. I just don't know, but it does seem typical for many.
What we've learned to do in our family is walk out of the room unless he needs immediate attention. We each also take time off, getting another family member to fill in for a few days. Now all of us are well trained in his care. I realize however, this may not be an available option for many caregivers.
In our situation, we learned he had many fears that were manifesting in those seemingly unrelated outbursts. It may not be the case in your situation, but in ours, he had a deep fear of hospice and nursing homes -- which we did not realize -- and he felt if he could not meet the standards of "independence" the hospital was shoving him towards that he'd end up in hospice or a nursing home. Once we took care of those ideas, he became happy and even allowed trips outside the house. The change in him was remarkable. Oh he still has his moments, and we certainly still have ours, but things are indeed improving. He will never ever be placed in hospice or a nursing home and he has to define his standard of independence -- not the hospital or any of us. He must be free to make his own decisions about independence, and this is something we overlooked. Whatever his choice, we are there to help him.
I think, Dear, that all of us fly by the seat of our pants in our roles as caregivers regardless of our training, and try so hard to do the right thing for our loved one that we forget to relax. I know I certainly take things to heart often. There simply are no easy answers. At least I certainly haven't found any.
Sometimes it's baby steps forward and giant steps backwards. But never ever give up.
Take care,
Golden
#14
Posted 14 December 2010 - 06:29 PM
I ran the subliminal CD idea by him and he rejected it.
He said that it would not change his situation.
I agreed, but said it could change how he felt
about his situation. He did not believe it could,
or perhaps he believed that that changing how he
felt was not a worthwhile goal. I'm unclear which.
Can anyone recommend anything written that talks through
the emotions that someone who becomes disabled goes through?
If what manifests as being frustrated or lashing out verbally
is actually fear or grieving in disguise, then figuring out
what we're dealing with could help us deal with it.
Also, does anyone have experience with
Coping Effectiveness Training?
http://www.ingentaco...000001/art00004
If it did what the research said, it could help a lot,
but I have not found a therapist locally who applies it to SCI.
Mary-Anne
#15
Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:37 PM
I'd like to share with you that I too tried to reach for the counseling for him, myself and the entire family. It was futile. And now I think it was futile simply because this is not a mental health situation (as strange as that sounds), but a disasterous medical situation.
PawPaw did not have the capacity to feel empathy for other people because of his overwhelming condition. And yes he was so abusive it was unbelievable. His body, his condition and his entire life was now alien to him. Worse it was irreversible. He was trapped and frightened. Remember Dear, that overwhelming fear is the root emotion of that type and caliber of anger.
He had to know, with all his being, that we would be there for him no matter what, that there would never be any other options, ever. That was the key that made all the difference for him and us. The fact was, we were on two different paths here. We simply assumed he understood we'd always be there for him. We did not realize his fear was so great it was terror. Nor did we understand there were actually innocent and well meaning actions by others that provoked that terror. This was not a situation where therapeutic counseling options would be helpful. WE had to do something about it, and it was actually a situation where we simply stumbled upon the root problems. You cannot affect any change unless you know what the problems are. But once we did understand it, we immediately dealt with all of it, including the other well meaning people who were party to his terror. We had to go so far as to bring the law firm into this situation just to ensure that he understood how serious we were about all this. The Firm put the final safety net around him. He absolutely blossomed. It was amazing.
As I've walked this path, I've come to know so many other Disabled people and their families, and so many really don't have the resources they need to go forward. Money can do so much to assist the Disabled into becoming Enabled, yet so many are left with little to nothing. We've had the resources he's needed, but it's still been very difficult, and our lives became haunted by those who have little to nothing. You will find this also becomes a time of giving, where you will be giving so much to others who so badly need help you can provide. I think this embracing is very healing for the entire family and PawPaw as well. PawPaw is so very kind to other Disabled people. There is an unspoken and very deep understanding there that bridges all the divides that we really aren't privy to. We can assist by supplying free computers programmed with ability programs that make their lives better and more joyful, but the truth is we don't have that very special "brotherhood" link they have to each other. They seem to have a greater respect and understanding for individual differences than we have, all the while they offer support. It is amazing to witness.
Decisions are not easy for the Disabled. How can they be? They are on uncharted ground with no predictable outcomes other than the ghastly that torment and provoke their fears. They don't need more pain in their lives.
Although PawPaw's medical care is very extensive, that care by contrast to the other issues that presented are a snap to deal with.
There are no easy answers, Dear.
#16
Posted 14 December 2010 - 07:41 PM
#17
Posted 15 December 2010 - 02:02 PM
What has he done to help himself along?
Here you are doing all the research. Why not give him a computer and let him do some of his own.
Other people go on to live productive happy lives. Remind him of that and then walk away when he gets abusive. Tell him you hear his hurt and frustration and you'll be glad to listen as long as he likes.
It's okay to be angry about his situation, but it is never, ever, okay to be mean to anyone. There is a huge difference. You tell him you will not tolerate his being mean to you. Then stick to your guns on that one.
Good luck! I know you are trying so hard. You can't do his work for him, though.
#18
Posted 16 December 2010 - 12:19 PM
Firstly, he's a T5 incomplete and that's that. The second step is for him to realize that he's the same person he always was and predominantly in good working order (mind, hands, etc). Then he has to decide whether to throw life away or take it on. It's one small step but he has to make it himself and it has to be in his time.
It could be a strongly positive thing for him to be feeling so low and in touch with the implications of his injury at this early stage. If he dips a little deeper into his new reality, down where the hurt is, he just might surprise himself with the inner strength he discovers. But there's a trick, you can't see the strength if you are looking for it - it unexpectedly comes when you've earned it.
Anger stops him feeling the hurt. Having someone around on which to project the anger makes it easy to hold on to that anger.
Take it or leave it, that's how I understand it through my own experiences.
An exceptionally good therapist might be of some help but I don't reckon it's essential. He can do it himself but it may take some time. Typically, we are stubborn people who don't like being told by anyone else how or what we should be (at least, I am). We find our own way in our own time.
#19
Posted 16 December 2010 - 01:03 PM
Perhaps that may be helpful? Also, I will PM something else...
Support and counsel for you...let him request and get his own help...there is a difference...and besides walking out of a room, perhaps taking an emotional "walk" may benefit you...
Beverly
"A wild patience has taken me this far..."
#20
Posted 16 December 2010 - 03:11 PM
He has a separated shoulder, which has gotten weaker since his injury. Surgery may fix it or may lose him the use of that arm, and because of that possibility, he is putting off having the surgery. It means his PT is not in favor of teaching him much about how to self-rescue because of not wanting to hurt the shoulder more.
Having something around his neck to call for help does not appeal to him. He is very handy and it would get in the way, maybe catch on something. He keeps a cell phone on his chair or his person much of the time when away from home.
I am not sure that we need to decide whether a therapist is necessary. We need to decide whether a therapist is more likely to be helpful or neutral than harmful. I expect a therapist is most likely to be a waste of his time, but nothing worse, which may say something about the therapist or about where he is at right now.
He does NOT consider himself still the same person as before. Dependency and fear are very much out of character for him.
He is very interested in products of The Standing Company, especially a wheelchair that would let him wheel up to a workbench and stand up and then work with his hands free. The big challenge is 1) they would want him to travel to Michigan to get fitted and 2) it is not clear how to persuade the insurance to pay for it. As I already said, he is more about improving the situation than how he deals with it.
Thanks again for all the feedback. I would like to convince him to read this discussion, but I don't know if he would.
#21
Posted 16 December 2010 - 03:55 PM
Mary-Anne, on 16 December 2010 - 03:11 PM, said:
He is very interested in products of The Standing Company, especially a wheelchair that would let him wheel up to a workbench and stand up and then work with his hands free. The big challenge is 1) they would want him to travel to Michigan to get fitted and 2) it is not clear how to persuade the insurance to pay for it. As I already said, he is more about improving the situation than how he deals with it.
Thanks again for all the feedback. I would like to convince him to read this discussion, but I don't know if he would.
He should have some sort of standing frame/wheelchair and if he does not, then you can have his doctor prescribe this for him. It is good to have a standing frame as I understand it helps with the joints and overall health to be able to stand. We have one that my husband can manually roll around and reach places in the house. It also makes him feel somewhat independent, which is important.
He did not need to go anywhere to be fitted for it. It is an Easy Stand Evolv --check out their website.
So when you try to obtain equipment, etc., from the insurance company -focus on physical health and independence (which is of course emotional health.)
My husband is covered under worker's compensation so your insurance may be different. We have been incredibly fortunate to have a case manager who knows what we need before we do!
Good luck!
#22
Posted 16 December 2010 - 10:37 PM
The tricky thing, as far as I am learning,
is that standing frames will not typically allow
a person to stand at a counter or workbench.
Most frames are stationary and big, especially they
stick out in front of the person using them.
The emphasis is on stability.
Gooserider is, as I said, intensively handy,
and wants to stand up and use tools
standing up. He'd run a snow thrower
if equipment allowed him to. We have figured out
how he can weld. He built me a staircase from
metal and wood before he got hurt.
The typical standing frame does not allow him to
do stuff while standing.
See for example
for what he has in mind.
Justifying that to the insurance, however,
may not be trivial.
#23
Posted 16 December 2010 - 11:27 PM
Here is the Permobil C500VS...standing wheelchair link and photo:
http://www.permobil....Rehab/C500-VS-/
Beverly
"A wild patience has taken me this far..."
#24
Posted 19 December 2010 - 06:51 AM
#25
Posted 19 December 2010 - 11:06 PM
He has hacked a power chair and is
putting lights on the ramp and he
and a friend fixed our kitchen drawers
and he had a hand in redoing the bathroom,
but it has not helped him enough yet.
He fell over backwards yesterday while
going up a ramp trying to carry his slide board.
He was not badly hurt and the chair was only a little
damaged, but it does not help him feel capable.
I would be interested in whatever anyone can find about
places online where people who solve these kinds of
problems get together to discuss them. I think he would
benefit from a co-conspirator.
I am aware of:
http://wheelchairjunkie.wordpress.com/
http://www.wheelchai.../ubbthreads.php
http://wheelchairrecycler.org/
http://sci.rutgers.e...display.php?f=4
but I haven't found any place with a lot of traffic
on topics like the specs for a welding table.
If money or insurance coverage were not an issue,
the Permobile would be just great. Thanks for the pointer.
This is less expensive
http://www.thestandi..._wheelchair.php
and if we can get that paid for, we are looking to get him one.
#26
Posted 20 December 2010 - 02:04 PM
I want you to read your postings again. Gooserider is indeed in a very difficult and very positive healing stage, and it's beautiful! Look what he is doing!
I've got a gut feeling he is going to be the one who comes up with a new device to help with standing and mobility. That guy isn't just going to re-invent the wheel. He is going to invent the mobility so many need to explore life again.
Just think -- if life had not changed so drastically for all of us, we would have missed our front row seats in the most remarkable transformations of all humankind. And all of us see it day by day and forget or even miss the pure genius that is sitting in all those 4-wheelers most folks call a wheelchair. It appears life itself picked only the best for those 4-wheelers, and told 'em all "we gotta do something about this because the mindset is stuck back in the Civil War era". I have yet to meet a disabled person who did not fill the bill for being a true genius. When someone smart finally comes along and puts all those genius paths together, things are going to happen. Count on it.
Whoda ever thunk it? I LOVE IT!!
I also feel very ashamed that I never recognized the full caliber and scope of the true meaning of "disability" until we were thrown into the "transformation". Personally, I don't think the word "disability" fits this scenario at all. We need to think of a better word. What an exciting time we all live in!
The stars are shining brightly for all of you!
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