35 replies to this topic

[dom]

hi all
could anyone please tell me what the latest situation is with regards to incapacity benefit?
i read somewhere that certain groups of people are 'exempt' from filling out the ib40 form-quads,paras etc
but things are going to change and the government are going to look into these various categories to decide whether they are really that 'incapacitated' to work?
This could mean that people may be called up to do the -personal capability test [pca] picking up coins from floor etc
And also if the gov wants to get IB claimants back to work i read that the people in a more serious need will get increased rates of DLA etc when they eventually reach their target? this was all set out in the green paper by hutton
the DLA system is also changing its name to allowance something or other?
maybe i've got my facts wrong and would like to be corrected on this issue
thanks all

[mttb14]

Hi,

I'm in the middle of filling in an appeal against previous decisions for Disability Living Allowance and Industrial Injuries Disablement Benefit.

It is all a night mare, how can a list of pain from 1 to 10 help. When you have suffered chronic pain for 8 years, your threshold has moved. Some of the pain people have to learn to live with would cause an abled bodied person to want to die.

We know loads of people who go in an lie and claim they cannot do anything, my experience of people who are really struggling with a disability are fighters, and fight to be able to do as much for themselves as they can. You would think by now the Benefits Agency would have worked that out by now.

Anyway back to the letters of Appeal, I will have educated them on how an incomplete quad has to deal with loads of lovely things like catheters, AD, spasticity and spasms not to mention Chronic Pain, and I have downloaded shed loads from sites like these. By the end of John's compensation claim and appeal against the DLA and IIDB I will have more knowledge than most doctors.

John works part time, we opened a business in 2001 so that he could work around his injury, as most employers would have sacked him for all the time he needs to take off, an it is the worst thing we could have done. Instead of praising him for trying to be positive and working through the pain etc, doctors come up with crap like "if he continued to work then he obviously is not in that much pain". Paracetamol, Tramadol, Baclofen, Oxycontin, Diclofenac etc etc, help keep him going, but they have not experienced Chronic Pain so what do they know.

Maria

[Avocado Baby]

This is something that really winds me up too! I've recently stopped working, mainly due to the fact that I'm going to be having surgery in a week and sometimes the pain is just soooo bad that I can't concentrate that I think I'm going to pass out!

I've been told I may be entitled to Income Support. I'm also trying for Incapacit Benefit, but it seems to be working against me that I've tried to continue working while in pain and that my disability has been long-term. They're asking for medical certificates and all sorts explaining my 'illness' from 8 weeks prior to me finishing employment. Sooo...what was I supposed to have done instead?! Not bothered working in the first place?! I'm not sure whether this makes sense but I know what I'm trying to say.

I do get middle rate care and higher rate mobility DLA.

[mttb14]

Hi,

I know exactly what you mean, we've got a doctor for the defendant who says because John worked after his accident, then he cannot be in the pain he says he is in, but the doctor then goes on to say that John is now in extremely bad pain, but is still working.

I get so frustrated it is eating me up, why can they not say, well done to all who continue to work after the horrific injuries and continued problems and pain. I just get so annoyed, I want to scream really loudly.

If they haven't been through it, they don't understand. Our solicitor went home because he had a migraine, John was going nuts, he has worked through all his pain, because he doesn't want to sit at home, he believes a man should work, and while he has breath in his body that is what he intends to do.

You get treated better if you sit on your bum feeling sorry for yourself, and punished for trying to give yourself the best chance of a good standard of living.

This system is all wrong.

Today I'm on a soap box as I so cheesed off with the whole system.

Maria.

[dom]

hi
it also depends on what job you were doing before the trauma/onset, if you were in a highly physical job it is not easy to change career and become an office worker etc especially if you are of a certain age
they tell you to retrain but a lot of the time you have to start from the bottom again and can't expect to earn the same amount as before
also whilst in hospital a length of time and then retraining you have lost valuable time and money, maybe lost your house then they tell you to keep going when it's virtually impossible, its ok if you already have a comfortable lifestyle but a bit soul destroying for others sometimes people just give up the ghost and i don't blame them
people can shout as much as they like and call them benefit cheats,lazy scroungers but they are not living in the real world and as we all know living on benefits is no rose garden

[mttb14]

I was not critiscising anyone having benefits if they genuinely have an illness, injury etc.

As far as I'm concerned they deserve it, what I object to is people claiming it when they have nothing wrong and then working for cash in hand. We know loads of people doing it, they claim they have a bad back or something and then go off to work or whatever. I just think that the benefits should be for people with real problems not the ones who are not ill or injured or disabled, but just don't see why they should work when they can get benefit for doing nothing.

John is a member of a fishing club and there is a bloke called Tommy, he doesn't work, claims everything for his so called bad back. John struggles due to pain etc to walk and carry his stuff, and Tommy can walk miles carrying his tackle in his box, his rods, etc and he walks off marching ahead like a spring chicken. He could easily work, but he doesn't want to.

But I don't see why doctors etc should assume that people cannot be in the pain they say they are, just because they are determined to try to carry on working. That is really unfair and very annoying.

Maria

[dom]

hi mttb
i agree i know of people who abuse the system and have done since i was at school [27 years ago] they have six kids [3left home now] a 4bed house and NEVER worked for a living and it seems that their kids are following suit cos its all theyve learnt from their parents

[dom]

hi lora,maria
maybe you're right but i read they are not ruling out changing the exempt category, never mind ,whatever happens hopefully the help will go where's needed and the chaff weeded out
it's a very complicated system and i don't pretend to understand it

[dom]

hi lora,maria and pink ali,
just been reading through my monthly copy of 'forward magazine'for those unable to work they're keeping an eye on the recent government green paper on welfare reforms,particularly those aspects relating to incapacity benefit. the areas that concern them are:
. the cut-off point when a persons disability or ability
means that they are exempt from ability tests and
pressure to rejoin or continue in the workplace,

.the effect on 'assisted work' [ie thepermitted support
work scheme], and
.the penalties for dipping in and out of work.

[lonely wife]

Hey to all you over the pond!
I've asked before, but didn't get a reply - what is the difference between living here in the U.S. getting Social Security and Medicare and living over there? It sucks over here. We lose money every year due to increase in Medicare costs. They pay us according to the money we were making when we were injured and that has been like 20 years now for us. Do you get any housing assistance? Any help paying the electric and such? Do you pay for your prescriptions? And now our "president" wants to eliminate Social Security. I guess that would help pay for 'his war'. I'm feeling less and less like a human. Oh - we do get good parking. Whoopee!!!!!!!

[dom]

hi lonely wife
yeah we get housing benefit and free prescriptions if we're claiming income support,no free electric though
not too sure on differences but we get free medical care,a lot of it is 'means tested' so the poorer people don't slip through the safety net,it disability living allowance does'nt have anything to do with how much we were earning before and goes up every year by a few pounds,i'm not sure if it's a better system [lots of people say it is]all the welfare system is going through a shake-up at the moment

[Avocado Baby]

Just need to vent! I'm not working at the moment cos I've just had spinal surgery. I've been in pain for years and was working and trying to fight it.

Anyway, I've just put a claim in for Income Support. The form asked me for some kind of medical cert to cover my period of illness/condition (I've had Spina Bifida all my life) so I phoned the department and enquired about it. They said that it would be fine just to send in my Disability Living Allowance Award letter to show that I've always been geting it. Soooo....that's what I sent. Along with 2 letters from the hospital confirming when I would be having surgery, my last 2 wage slips from my job to show I was no longer working and everything I thought they coulf possibly need. Took me ages to gather it all together.

Earlier today I got a phone call from them saying they needed a medical certificate. Why did they not tell me that when I phoned in the first place?!!

I know we've said this before, but I just want to say it again! The benefit system seems to work to your advantage if you've become diabled or had some kind of accident but there's a bit of a loophole for anyone who has a lifelong disability. If you try and get on with it and work despite being in pain, they seem to think you must be ok. But then you get criticised for not trying if you stay at home and do nothing! IT'S NOT FAAAAAAAAIR!

[mttb14]

Quote

The benefit system seems to work to your advantage if you've become diabled or had some kind of accident

Hi,

This subject drives me mad, John had an incomplete SCI at C5/6 lifting in work 8 years ago, to date he has not received a penny of benefits.

He has the attitude that men work and provide for as long as their are able, and has continued to work even during the most chronic pain, he just keeps taking tablets, then more tablets and even more tablets, so much so that he has damaged his liver, and now has to be monitored by blood tests regularly.

We applied for DLA years ago and he was turned down, we applied for Industrial Injuries Benefit and he was turned down as being less than 14% disabled. We appealled, his appeal went on whilst he was actually being operated on, because he had lost the use of his legs due to spasticity and tight tendons, his cord signals are all confused and he could not straighten his legs. Even though we wrote explaining this, still he was turned down. With the letters saying that this was a FINAL decision.

After seeing many different doctors over the past 8 years, one off them was refering to which rate of DLA John receives. We explained he did not receive anything and he wrote two very long detailed letters explaining the John was 66% disabled not including suffering of pain, we have sent off everything we can think of, details of AD, UTI's, Chronic Pain, details on various types of pain, plus Urology reports, Pain Management reports, Spinal Rehabilitation reports, etc etc, all expressing that John was under assessed by the Examining Medical Practioner working for the Benefit's Agency. It cost me over £8.00 to post it all and they have said that because it is more than 14 months, the previous claims do not count as they are out of time, and we have to fill it all in again.

So I'm in the process of filling in 39 pages of their booklets, repeating myself on nearly every page, pulling my hair out and feeling like screaming, SO NO IT IS NOT EASIER TO CLAIM IF YOU HAVE HAD AN ACCIDENT, OR AT LEAST IT HASN'T BEEN FOR US.

John is usually made to feel that because he has continued to work with the chronic pain, problems walking, problems with his arms, spasms etc etc, that he cannot be in as much pain or as disabled as he says he is, because he still works. One of the Benefit's Agencies doctors told him that he cannot have the problems with his legs that he says he has, because if he did he would use sticks or be in a wheelchair. They obviously have not heard of an incomplete injury and the various ways you can be affected.

Doesn't matter that Physio have told him not to use sticks or crutches because of his spasms and spasticity problems. Doesn't matter that he has tried to remain on his legs and walking for as long as he could, (he now has a wheelchair on order through NHS because he is really struggling to walk now), he is just told he cannot be as bad as he says he is.

So he obviously takes Oxycontin, Baclofen, Tramadol, Paracetamol, Amitriptyline, Diclofenac etc etc just for fun. He has spasms for fun, he uses a catheter for fun, I won't go on because I'm in danger of exploding.

I wish doctors and Benefit staff, solicitors and Barristers, Judges etc would read these forums and comments and then may be they would understand an incomplete SCI and treat people fairly. They might also realise that just because you want to work for a living, DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE NOT IN PAIN.

Maria

[Avocado Baby]

I'm really really really really sorry! I didn't mean it like that at all and I certainly didn't mean to cause any offence.

I completely understand that losing function that you've once had is probably harder than living with decreased function that you're used to. I certainly don't think that people who have had an accident have it easier than people with a life long disability and I really didn't mean it to come out like that!

I was just trying to (badly) have a go at the system which doesn't seem to appreciate that people want to get out there and work and give credit to those people who try and fight their pain in order to do that! I hope I'm making more sense now.

Again, I'm really sorry if I upset you! I'll be more careful how I word things!

[mttb14]

Quote

I'm really really really really sorry! I didn't mean it like that at all and I certainly didn't mean to cause any offence.

I completely understand that losing function that you've once had is probably harder than living with decreased function that you're used to. I certainly don't think that people who have had an accident have it easier than people with a life long disability and I really didn't mean it to come out like that!

I was just trying to (badly) have a go at the system which doesn't seem to appreciate that people want to get out there and work and give credit to those people who try and fight their pain in order to do that! I hope I'm making more sense now.

Again, I'm really sorry if I upset you! I'll be more careful how I word things!

Hi Pink Ali,

I actually agreed with most of what you said before, but as I was having a bad day, filling in repeated questions on the DLA form, writing the same answers, just on different pages, I was well cheesed off too.

Your forgiven and thanks for the hug.

I wish they would stop cutting down forests to produce a 40 page form which you have to keep repeating yourself on. 5 pages would be enough with tick boxes for how your affected and then 2 blank pages for you to fill in the hows and whys. It drives me mad, John can't do it for himself, and I could be spending the time in a much better way. I have comments to write on nearly every page, which I have actually already written on the previous pages, but due to the way they write the questions you have to repeat and repeat and repeat yourself.

It infuriates us all the time that John is criticised for working, or it is assumed that if he can work then he cannot be in the pain he says he is in. Oh here I go again, I think I'm getting close to killing someone soon. If you read I've killed a Benefit's Agency member of staff, solicitor, doctor or Barrister can you all please start up a petition saying that I was driven to it, by their lack of understanding of an incomplete SCI.

Maria

[dom]

yes whoever designed these forms wants shooting! i don't know whether they purposefully construct them to be as difficult to fill in as possible
To take an example i read a friends incapacity benefit form[ib50] it asks general questions on walking,rising from a chair,mental health issues etc but then it goes on to say 'how many times a day/week you have these difficulties,as we all know these can be always,fluctuating sometimes or never. but it asks you to give a specific number every time-eg2xweekly etc
The whole form is difficult for a claimant to fill in without loads of footnotes [which there is'nt any space for]he is my neighbour and had a beating in a pub car park which having sustained head injuries has left him with memory problems etc,he asked me to help him but i don't know how to; so sent him to the local cab offices

[mttb14]

Hi Dom,

If after filling in this form it doesn't work as far as claiming is concerned then I think the next form will be going to the Citizen's Advice Bureau for them to help us fill it in.

These forms are total madness and such a waste of paper and ink, not to mention the hours it takes to complete one.

I found a very informative site which gives you clues for the way the DSS are looking to read the answers.
It is part of Stewart's Solicitors website, but they have some really useful hints and tips on there, plus there is a link to this site from there, which is how I found this site in the first place.


http://www.spinalcor.......tep=5&id=38

Hope this helps anyone trying to understand the way the DSS want you to fill in these forms.

Maria

Edited by mttb14, 24 June 2006 - 05:57 AM.

[dom]

hi maria,i'd advise you to go straight there cos i heard these proffessionals have 'certain buzz words' that the dla pick up on
if you make a load of mistakes with this one they could use the info you provided against you? you have to be careful as it all goes on record
good luck with it and keep us posted as to the out come

[dom]

hi everyone,i feel like i've got to know some of you over the weeks,even though its cyberspace i know there are genuine people behind their laptops/pcs and it warms my heart to read and reply to some of the posts
can anyone help me with this question? i received an incapacity for work assessment form today and i don't know if the info i have is correct
i know there are certain exempt categories for a 'personal capability assessment which means one does'nt have to go to a dwp office to be assessed these categories include paraplegia and quadriplegia which i am.
do i still have to fill the form in? it is very complicated for me, i was awarded incapacity benefit and dla after my accident and have been living off these benefits since
should i ring the office or and explain that i am exempt or just fill it out anyway? grateful for your advice as always, dom

[russ1]

http://www.dwp.gov.u...ical/percap.pdf

http://www.dwp.gov.u...ical/percap.asp

A quick google brings these up - seems that para's are exempt - I'd suggest that you give your local job centre plus a ring and ask them about filling in the form as it would appear unecessary and when I dealt with them in the past they were extremely helpful.

Having said that exemption on grounds of paraplegia seems pretty silly as I know more paras who do work than I know who don't and all of the para's I know who are more than a couple of years post injury are (by their own admission) capable of working even if they choose not to or can't because they can't find work.

Not saying that you're not incapacitated Dom as every case is different but as a general rule it seems pretty daft.

[dom]

cheers russ i'll get onto them

[Boozyuzi]

Anyone know the latest news on what is going to happen with the welfare reforms ??

According to this the bill received Royal Assent in May clearing the way for changes in April 2008

http://www.dwp.gov.u.../wel-030507.asp

The bill is here - makes little sense to me though !

http://www.opsi.gov....20070005_en.pdf

Edited by Boozyuzi, 02 August 2007 - 12:11 PM.

[daylight2007]

 lonely wife, on Jun 15 2006, 01:23 PM, said:

Hey to all you over the pond!
I've asked before, but didn't get a reply - what is the difference between living here in the U.S. getting Social Security and Medicare and living over there? It sucks over here. We lose money every year due to increase in Medicare costs. They pay us according to the money we were making when we were injured and that has been like 20 years now for us. Do you get any housing assistance? Any help paying the electric and such? Do you pay for your prescriptions? And now our "president" wants to eliminate Social Security. I guess that would help pay for 'his war'. I'm feeling less and less like a human. Oh - we do get good parking. Whoopee!!!!!!!

I agree . As of yesterday I received my first deneil letter. All I was asking for was what I've worked so hard to put in out of my own checks throughout the years not help with any medical. Now I'm told by SSI that ''eventhough they can see that I have obviouse physical discomfort" that they do not consider me to be to disbibled to work. Of course we well appeal but it just makes me so angry. I can't walk but to the car,can't drive because of my vision blurring or read without very large print,my arms and hands go so numb that I can't write or type for more than a minute without resting,not meantion the pain . My nice doctor that I trusted (the one who told me to file) didn't take accurate notes ,and for some real which really frys me up the hospital said that I was mental ,have FM (which I don't), and came to the ER with a "sprained neck" .No ct taken at the time of er visit ,didn't see a neuro. nothing except pain pills and home. Sorry huge rant.
I just don't understand that because of my health I was fired from my last job last they now can somehow tell me that I can hold a job down (of course making far less) and in more pain that before and not be fired again.
What can people do? I can't afford an attorney. I can't get a job at McDonalds or greeter at Walmart (not that those areen't good jobs) . The Gov. thinks that I can make 900.00 a month? I can't even hold a job down for two days but thats what they are counting on so that my first claim will be closed and I'll be forced to refile only to be dinied again for tring to work.
May God himself find pity on the people who run Soc. Sec. if they ever get hit by a car and
someday are in need. I funny that we work for years,have this money taken out of our checks and when we need it we are told to just go back to work. By the time I can legally hopefully I won't be homeless.
Again sorry for the rant it's just rent is due and all we have to sell is my husband's work truck.

[Cheshire]

My own little rant regarding the system, USA for me.
I filed for medicaid, who said I had to file for SSD who tried to tell me I had to file for SSI. Many, many repeating questions, and deadlines and complicated forms that I was expected to fill out and remember every detail of while I was either in the hospital on enough drugs to kill a horse or shortly discharged and STILL on enough narcs to make thinking a joke. How on earth do they expect you to remember, reason, and respond when you're exhausted from PT/OT and just general movement, in enough pain to make an AB homicidal, AND drugged higher than a kite? I don't get it.

They then (all of 'em) denied me on basis of I wasn't disabled ENOUGH to be out of work for 12 consecutive months. Umm...at time of denial it had already been 6. I appealed medicaid because I didn't want to be in debt until I died. That one got overturned via a hearing: I went in with no pain meds on board so I could think clearly, was very blunt, and the guy got to see me with no Rx. (Okay...that was probably playing the drama card just a little, but something worked.)
Now I have to keep appealing SSD (even though I don't think I need it) or else I lose medicaid. I think that's really screwed up....

[Zany]

I'm getting a little worried here. My sister applied for Medicaid (on behalf of my brother in law) the day after his accident. So far she's only heard that "rehab is going to be quite costly and Medicaid isn't going to cover much." We're all wondering what's going to happen when it's time for him to leave the hospital and start rehab.

[Susi]

To all who contributed to this topic, I feel for you all. So let me tell you about our system in South Africa/Namibia.

When we are employed we automatically join a Provident Fund/Pension Plan of which the company pays in 50%(depending on the company, but most do). It is then voluntary to join a Medical Aid scheme. In some companies if you don't have medical aid on joining they make you join thwe company's appointed medical aid. Depending on your salary scale the cover you can afford usually is the very basic. Just covering a hospital plan, and very litttle else.



When we are injured and have a SCI due to a RTA we file for compensation with the 3rd party Road insurance (MVA) Motor Vehicle Assurance Fund. If you were driving and are the injured party you don't get paid out, although they are reforming this act. You can also claim from your Medical Aid which usually just about covers rehab.



As an SCI we automatically become State patients, so we can get certain drugs (only) for a next to nothing fee (GPB 1). All other expenses, are to be covered by a 'disability pension' one recieves due to your contributions at last company worked for. Usually 75% of total monthly salary earned. In most cases this is not enough, so a lot of para's are forced to work to keep up with monthly expenditures. The quad's have no choice really, they have to depend on what the State offers, which as mentioned, is very little.



We are still a marginalised piece of society, getting very little help from the system, and if you have not provided for your own future, i.e. through private insurances or death and disability policies, we are quite literally stuffed. We are not a welfare state at all. Some of our less fortunate brothers/sisters have to rely on community or family support. And sometimes they are abandoned into State run facilities which are shocking here to say the least. In my case, I rely on a GPB 458.00 p/month disability pension, and no compensation fom our MVA fund as I was the driver of the vehicle I was injured in.



So to say we are no better off than you guys in the USA or England does seem so, however you do have a system in place for disabled people, but the majority do spoil it for the minority, it seems like in your case, and then sadly you guys who really need a leg up, do suffer.



As I said before in one of my posts, I think we are in a way privileged to not depend on a welfare system, as we are then forced to look after ourselves, therefore knowing the worst case scenario, beforehand. I am lucky in that I have an AB husband who does pull in a salary thereby enabling us to just about cover my monthly medical costs. We are forced to keep ourselves as healthy as we can, avoiding secondary infections, etc. However, if I had to have an operation we would go private and in debt as the State system is appalling. Really, you don't want to go to an African hospital. My heart goes out to those who have no choice and do end up there.



So my fellow SCI's take heart things could be a whole lot worse.

Sorry don't want to sound condescending.

[Cheshire]

 Zany, on Aug 7 2007, 11:21 AM, said:

I'm getting a little worried here. My sister applied for Medicaid (on behalf of my brother in law) the day after his accident. So far she's only heard that "rehab is going to be quite costly and Medicaid isn't going to cover much." We're all wondering what's going to happen when it's time for him to leave the hospital and start rehab.

Depending on how old your brother-in-law is, fully expect to get denied...at first. I was 27 (turned 28 last week) when I got injured, and was told by multiple people, my Voc Rehab rep included, that Medicaid will deny me regardless of injury soley because of my young-(ish?) age. Appeal, appeal again, and keep it up if you don't agree with the decision. The paperwork and red tape is a pain in the , but just take it step at a time and keep on plodding.

I got lucky and only had to appeal medicaid once before getting accepted. SSD I'm still appealing. It takes a while, seems like forever, to get from stepping stone to stepping stone with them...but it does move.

[Zany]

 Cheshire, on Aug 8 2007, 08:00 AM, said:

 Zany, on Aug 7 2007, 11:21 AM, said:

I'm getting a little worried here. My sister applied for Medicaid (on behalf of my brother in law) the day after his accident. So far she's only heard that "rehab is going to be quite costly and Medicaid isn't going to cover much." We're all wondering what's going to happen when it's time for him to leave the hospital and start rehab.

Depending on how old your brother-in-law is, fully expect to get denied...at first. I was 27 (turned 28 last week) when I got injured, and was told by multiple people, my Voc Rehab rep included, that Medicaid will deny me regardless of injury soley because of my young-(ish?) age. Appeal, appeal again, and keep it up if you don't agree with the decision. The paperwork and red tape is a pain in the , but just take it step at a time and keep on plodding.

I got lucky and only had to appeal medicaid once before getting accepted. SSD I'm still appealing. It takes a while, seems like forever, to get from stepping stone to stepping stone with them...but it does move.

Thank you for telling me this. He's 25, so I guess that pretty much qualifies as being pretty dang young and set for denial. Unfortunately, I've been hearing this a lot over the past couple of days. I'll pass what you said along to my sister and try to prepare her for it. We'll definitely fight it, though. Sigh...

[Avocado Baby]

Hi there,

Sorry for changing the subject slightly but I didn't want to start a new thread. Does anyone in the UK know how we stand (or sit ) with regard to prescription charges? I'm guessing most of us have to get more prescriptions than your average AB so do we automatically get some kind of discount or exemption? I've been spending a smll fortune recently.

Excuse my ignorance. I haven't looked into yet.

Cheers