41 replies to this topic

[wheeliebear75]

I know this is probably going to come under quite a bit of fire....but....here goes & PLEASE don't just read the words with a "that lard ass" attitude.

I 100% agree that people who are +size do NOT compare or = "like us"! But to say they "CHOOSE TO BE" is that really fair? Yes they do put more food into their bodies than they need which is WHY they're overweight. But how many of them USED TO BE thin people who were miserable for one reason or another & used food to drown their sorrows much in the same way a drinker turns to booze? I can't tell you why EVERYONE is overweight....but MAYBE if I take you on the journey of ONE it will change how you view other fat people.

In early childhood there is a "boogie man" it's a mental disorder that although it gets lots of jokes it is NO laughing matter called Tourette's Syndrome. When my B/F was 8 yrs old he tried to commit suicide! Why would a CHILD want to do something like this? Because that poor little boy thought he was possessed! He couldn't stop doing things like shaking his head, gulping, snorting, punching himself only started the list & the more he TRIED NOT TO the worse the symptoms became. His parents knew SOMETHING was wrong with their son but not what. Can you imagine being 8 or 9 years old & being dropped off at children's behavioral center for 6 wks at a time while Dr.s play "lets try this" until the insurance says no more payments for in-hospital treatment? No mommy & daddy to give you hugs....he though HE was a bad kid & that he was "evil". How sad is THAT?!?!? When he wasn't IN San Luis Ray (it's the mental health hospital for kids in San Diego county) he was being taunted by other kids & spent the majority of his time under a desk crying, he spent his nights asking God to please NOT allow him to wake up. Personally I can not even begin to imagine the pain & anguish at being so very young & yet being called "FREAK" to his face by kids & adults alike! After years of chemical cocktail after chemical cocktail to try & make the tics less noticeable he gave up THAT route....it only had a mild effect on the tics & made him sooo sleepy he couldn't think & would fall asleep all day long & wasn't able to drive while on them + made such bad "watery mouth" it made him drool. He got bounced from school to school because non of the teachers could deal with his tics until he RAN OUT OF SCHOOLS & even when he was sent home teachers by the district they (the teachers) said he was "unteachable due to HIS tics & their inability to work around them". No he doesn't have bowl & bladder problems & yes he can pick his feet up; but do any of you dispute that repeatedly punching yourself would hurt like hell or that CONSTANTLY bouncing your leg up & down would cause pain or whipping your head around? And I've never had a problem with drugs but then again I never wanted to die when I was a kid so I have NO RIGHT to judge him. He went to his parents as a teen KNOWING the "solution" would be to go into a treatment center much like when he was a kid....which was like reliving a nightmare just to get off the drugs. He doesn't abuse illegal substances to escape the mental & emotional pain anymore; but all the other addictive substances you can generally avoid altogther such as drugs, booze & gambling.....the all or nothing unlike other addictions doesn't work with food. I am NOT saying that people who are fat should have the exact same as us with regards to parking & such.....but what I am ALSO saying is that EVERYONE regardless of size,age,$,race, sexual orientation, & religion DESERVE RESPECT NOT our REPULSION! My B/F didn't "choose" to become fat....he chose food over other substances which are FAR MORE harmful to ones health than is the extra lbs./kgs. & he sure as shit didn't CHOOSE to have Tourette's! What he HAS chosen is to be the best friend anyone could ask for in that he drops what he is doing to help out his friends & that he cherishes them more than they'll ever know. He's sweet, funny, great with fixing computers & cars AND THE MOST LOYAL FRIEND to anyone even 1/2 way decent back to him. And although I get stared at if my leg starts bouncing from the cold nobody thinks/mistakes what I'm doing as "aggressive behavior" (hitting HIMSELF)which has gotten him banned/asked to permanently leave (sure we COULD "fight it" but HE feels even more like a "freak" than if we just "leave it be". Yes I've been stared at but it's mostly the novelty of seeing somebody in a wheelchair "Wheelchairs are made of a special ocular magnetic alloy.....they're EYEBALL MAGNETS!" when his tics become noticeable trust me when I say people are/have been so shocked they literally forget what they were even doing. NO most people who are overweight do not have Tourette's Syndrome but I'm betting that 90% + have spent many a lonely night with nobody to comfort them BUT Ben & Jerry(ice-cream company in the U.S. {didn't know if you Brits had it there or not}).

[LeahC]

Not wishing to start a fight he did choose food though and I'm sure there are plenty of people out there with mental issues who are not 'addicted' to anything, legal or illegal. There are such things as gyms and exercise. I don't think any less of anyone who is overweight or even addicted to anything but it grates me when people blame everything but themselves for their problems. I do understand there are things like underactive thyroids and medications that increase weight as well as physical conditions. I also know a lot of people who like to claim they have these issues when really they are just greedy and lazy.

[justinc]

Does anyone truly think a person "chooses to be" overweight? I think it's more about associating certain negative personality traits to obesity... irresponsibility, laziness, lacking good health and personal hygiene, etc. Not all overweight people share these traits. Some just have rediculously slow metabolism, but it's the stereotype so this can't be helped. Contrary to what you may think, food isn't a "safe" addiction, not even compared to hard drugs. Heart disease is the leading cause of death in America, and poor circulation from obesity is a big reason.

[Lucydog]

My husband has Tourettes and it looks like my 7 year old does as well. One of the issues with the condition is that people do have addictions as a consequence of the weird neurology in their brains. It could be any of the usual stuff or anything weird. At the moment my husband has an addiction to lists, he does it endlessly while my son is into religion in a big way. I think both addictions help organise the chaos in the brain. My husband also has food issues in that he needs a food 'experience' every time we eat. Fortunatly for him he tends to centre on food such as herring, smoked salmon and wonderful salads, but it could just as easily turn to several bars of chocolate if circumstances were right. Pm me if you want to chat WB.

[slyd]

Hey Leah, a bit judgmental there with . . .

Quote

he did choose food though

We, of all people should be more accepting of adaptive coping behaviour! Maybe u'r the bee's knees and the virginal SCI, but many other peeps (including myself) use anything they can to slightly reduce the psychological and physiological effects of their condition. Legal or Not . . ., .Who gives a Sh1t, . . if you have half a heart you will see that there is more to life than size, and that love is unequivocal !! AB or SCI!
So take your . ..

Quote

they are just greedy and lazy

. ,. .and wheelie off some stairs . . . take a chance, maybe a new perspective . . .
So WheelieBear , you GO, love . . . and be loved . .

[hooplady]

I had a wonderfully long relationship with a man who was grossly obese. I swear I out-ate him at every meal, yet I maintained a fairly normal weight and he was painfully huge. It could have been his genes, or a childhood illness that kept him bedbound during his formative years, or hormones, or maybe he just ate a lot secretly that I never saw. Anyhoo, he finally had gastric bypass surgery and almost died as a result. After a year of hardly being able to eat anything - to the point that his body was actually cannibalizing his muscle tissue and he ended up temporarily in a wheelchair - he did lose weight and regained his health.

I often took flak for being with him - people assumed I had low self-esteem to be with someone who was fat. I just figured that everybody has their flaws; his just showed a lot more than most people's. But fat or thin, even though we are no longer together we still keep in touch and have a special place in each other's hearts. I would not have missed being with him for anything in the world.

Wheelie, you be with whoever you want to be. If two people have respect, love, and laughter, it doesn't matter what their container looks like.

[greybeard]

I'm fat (300lbs - 22 stones). I suppose you could also say that now I'm lazy because I try to find the easiest way to do things and being unable to exercise .

Anyone want to pick on me?




ps - I also punch above my weight.

Edited by greybeard, 05 January 2011 - 05:46 PM.

[LeahC]

slyd, on 05 January 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

Hey Leah, a bit judgmental there with . . .

Quote

he did choose food though

We, of all people should be more accepting of adaptive coping behaviour! Maybe u'r the bee's knees and the virginal SCI, but many other peeps (including myself) use anything they can to slightly reduce the psychological and physiological effects of their condition. Legal or Not . . ., .Who gives a Sh1t, . . if you have half a heart you will see that there is more to life than size, and that love is unequivocal !! AB or SCI!
So take your . ..

Quote

they are just greedy and lazy

. ,. .and wheelie off some stairs . . . take a chance, maybe a new perspective . . .
So WheelieBear , you GO, love . . . and be loved . .

It's not much of a judgement to say someone chose something, I wasn't saying anything bad about it nor was I saying me or anyone else is or isn't perfect. You made that up in your own head. I also didn't say all were greedy and lazy. Re read my post. What a nasty thing to say 'wheelie off some stairs'.

[greybeard]

LeahC, on 05 January 2011 - 06:31 PM, said:

What a nasty thing to say 'wheelie off some stairs'.

I agree.

[edlee]

Sorry WB,,, but i have a completely different take on the situation. Being a "morbidly obese" person, myself,, I think I know whereof I speak. Plus a great deal of "off paper" research over the last 60 odd years. While your friend and others like him, may or may not have more reason for it than others,, the fact remains that he/they , like me,, can look in a mirror. It isn't brain surgery to see that what the image reveals is not what one should aspire to. He/they/I have chosen not to do anything about it,,,, there is the matter of choice,,,, My choice has to stop looking in mirrors.

None of this has anything to do with the only concerns that we, as wheelchair users, might have with their being FAT,,, which boils down to hogging ( pardon) parking spots. Other than that,,, do any of us really care about their girth?

Your friend had a tremendously tragic childhood,, I am happy to hear that he has found his space in this, sometimes, harsh world.

But for the rest of us,,,, thin may be in,,, but fat's where it's at!!
ed

Edited by edlee, 05 January 2011 - 11:52 PM.

[greybeard]

edlee, on 05 January 2011 - 11:51 PM, said:

My choice has to stop looking in mirrors.

Shop windows were a killer too, so I do all my shopping online now. Not a reflection to be seen anywhere. God. I'm good looking SOB now!

[Tinbasher]

I have been fat my whole life and I can beat GB easily on the weight stakes.

To suggest that being fat is some kind of character flaw is just judgemental. Like an anorexic when I look in the mirror I don't see what others do I see a pleasantly plump man. To suggest we can just diet fails to understand the complexity and difficulty in changing a life long habit. Sure some people can and I congratulate them.

I have considered surgery but I know somone who died because of it and I would rather she was with us now and fat than dead.

I ma not making excuses I accept responsibility for my body and part of that is not demeaning other people because of their life choices. It has become fashionable recently to pick on the obese and I think that is a dangerous move. If we have a health service that judges the cause of disability (and whilst obesity is not automatically a disability it can be) then those who crash motorbikes or fall off mountains or out of windows while partying or diving into shallow water or all the other bad "choices" that people make then we may as well forget it.

I only feel disabled in my interactions with the ignorant and interestingly thats when I feel fat as well.

Tin

[wheeliebear75]

Lucydog, on 05 January 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

My husband has Tourettes and it looks like my 7 year old does as well. One of the issues with the condition is that people do have addictions as a consequence of the weird neurology in their brains. It could be any of the usual stuff or anything weird. At the moment my husband has an addiction to lists, he does it endlessly while my son is into religion in a big way. I think both addictions help organise the chaos in the brain. My husband also has food issues in that he needs a food 'experience' every time we eat. Fortunatly for him he tends to centre on food such as herring, smoked salmon and wonderful salads, but it could just as easily turn to several bars of chocolate if circumstances were right. Pm me if you want to chat WB.

Sorry to hear they're in the same club but I'm happy for the both of them that theirs doesn't sound as sever as my B/F's. Thank you sooo much for sharing that.

[wheeliebear75]

slyd, on 05 January 2011 - 04:13 PM, said:

Hey Leah, a bit judgmental there with . . .

Quote

he did choose food though

We, of all people should be more accepting of adaptive coping behaviour! Maybe u'r the bee's knees and the virginal SCI, but many other peeps (including myself) use anything they can to slightly reduce the psychological and physiological effects of their condition. Legal or Not . . ., .Who gives a Sh1t, . . if you have half a heart you will see that there is more to life than size, and that love is unequivocal !! AB or SCI!
So take your . ..

Quote

they are just greedy and lazy

. ,. .and wheelie off some stairs . . . take a chance, maybe a new perspective . . .
So WheelieBear , you GO, love . . . and be loved . .

Thank you for the acceptance & understanding. The world does need a lot more of that.

No not sure that wheeling off stairs would help anything.

TO ALL (from Mike my B/F): "Thank you for the support & kind words. As far as what I see when I look in the mirror goes, and what I choose, I'm OK with what I see in the mirror, as long as I can keep my G/F WB happy, & I can take care of her & keep her pain down to a minimum....these are the only things that matter in my life."

[The Black Sheep]

I was considered obese when I was 16 years old, at 195 lbs. I was 2-3 years post injury and I didn't even realize it happened, but I suppose it may have been my frustration being fairly new to a chair, and prior to my injury I was a normal active kid. When I gained the ability to stand in parallel bars, I finally got to stand on a scale and WOW! I was as heavy as my mom was when she was 9 months pregnant. It was a bit of a wake up call for me and my sister took me to Weight Watchers that weekend.

I think that adults tend to judge each other more as we get older. We dwell on our imperfections, we look at ourselves and compare our situations to other people, which I don't think is right, but we all do it to some degree. I know from my own experience that weight gain just happens sometimes without realizing it, and some choose to do something about it. Sometimes it's out of our control. Sometimes it's a medical condition. Sometimes it IS laziness and personal disregard for our self image. Either way, it's not our place to judge.

I love fat people, thin people, ugly people, even smelly people.... however, I don't love grouchy mean people who feel the need to push their anger on others and degrade them because it makes them feel better.

[wheeliebear75]

hooplady, on 05 January 2011 - 05:04 PM, said:

I had a wonderfully long relationship with a man who was grossly obese. I swear I out-ate him at every meal, yet I maintained a fairly normal weight and he was painfully huge. It could have been his genes, or a childhood illness that kept him bedbound during his formative years, or hormones, or maybe he just ate a lot secretly that I never saw. Anyhoo, he finally had gastric bypass surgery and almost died as a result. After a year of hardly being able to eat anything - to the point that his body was actually cannibalizing his muscle tissue and he ended up temporarily in a wheelchair - he did lose weight and regained his health.

I often took flak for being with him - people assumed I had low self-esteem to be with someone who was fat. I just figured that everybody has their flaws; his just showed a lot more than most people's. But fat or thin, even though we are no longer together we still keep in touch and have a special place in each other's hearts. I would not have missed being with him for anything in the world.

Wheelie, you be with whoever you want to be. If two people have respect, love, and laughter, it doesn't matter what their container looks like.

I always say the only thing bigger than the size of his belt is the size of his heart! (& NO I'm NOT talking about the literal size of it....for you fat bashers). He has considered gastric bypass surgery....a friend of ours did it & has lost TONS of weight but she didn't have the same level of psychological dependency/NEED for escape/comfort; but as was pointed out it's not without it's risks. And yes often many people DO ass-u-me that I'm with him out of some lack of respect for myself or low standards, not only is this so NOT true.....he's had people ask HIM "Why are you with her?" because I'm legally blind, am in a wheelchair barely able to walk, AND have a brain injury that makes things "interesting"....but he loves me for who I am & accepts EVERY ASPECT OF ME....so why then does he deserve any less?

[wheeliebear75]

greybeard, on 05 January 2011 - 05:45 PM, said:

I'm fat (300lbs - 22 stones). I suppose you could also say that now I'm lazy because I try to find the easiest way to do things and being unable to exercise .

Anyone want to pick on me?




ps - I also punch above my weight.

Thanks GB!
Eh it's the internet....you've got a 6 pack....nobody said WHAT KIND OF SIX-PACK LOL

[wheeliebear75]

Tinbasher, on 06 January 2011 - 12:19 AM, said:

I have been fat my whole life and I can beat GB easily on the weight stakes.

To suggest that being fat is some kind of character flaw is just judgemental. Like an anorexic when I look in the mirror I don't see what others do I see a pleasantly plump man. To suggest we can just diet fails to understand the complexity and difficulty in changing a life long habit. Sure some people can and I congratulate them.

I have considered surgery but I know somone who died because of it and I would rather she was with us now and fat than dead.

I ma not making excuses I accept responsibility for my body and part of that is not demeaning other people because of their life choices. It has become fashionable recently to pick on the obese and I think that is a dangerous move. If we have a health service that judges the cause of disability (and whilst obesity is not automatically a disability it can be) then those who crash motorbikes or fall off mountains or out of windows while partying or diving into shallow water or all the other bad "choices" that people make then we may as well forget it.

I only feel disabled in my interactions with the ignorant and interestingly thats when I feel fat as well.

Tin

Thanks Tin. I think it has just become "OK to" pick certain groups.....obesity & homosexuality.....although at least thankfully the fat bashing isn't like the gay bashing.....I don't think I've heard of any fat people being "jumped" beaten to within an inch of their lives for being fat unlike gays. But I think it all ties back to treating others as we would want to be treated.

[wheeliebear75]

The Black Sheep, on 06 January 2011 - 01:33 AM, said:

I was considered obese when I was 16 years old, at 195 lbs. I was 2-3 years post injury and I didn't even realize it happened, but I suppose it may have been my frustration being fairly new to a chair, and prior to my injury I was a normal active kid. When I gained the ability to stand in parallel bars, I finally got to stand on a scale and WOW! I was as heavy as my mom was when she was 9 months pregnant. It was a bit of a wake up call for me and my sister took me to Weight Watchers that weekend.

I think that adults tend to judge each other more as we get older. We dwell on our imperfections, we look at ourselves and compare our situations to other people, which I don't think is right, but we all do it to some degree. I know from my own experience that weight gain just happens sometimes without realizing it, and some choose to do something about it. Sometimes it's out of our control. Sometimes it's a medical condition. Sometimes it IS laziness and personal disregard for our self image. Either way, it's not our place to judge.


I love fat people, thin people, ugly people, even smelly people.... however, I don't love grouchy mean people who feel the need to push their anger on others and degrade them because it makes them feel better.

Strange you should mention being an overweight teenager. I started off being VERY physically active with so many sports I literally would eat 6 chili dogs, 2 or 3 fries + a drink....but while I was doing all that stuff I wasn't fat at all....matter of fact I was all muscle. After I got hurt....yup....depression, boredom, inactivity compared to my previous activities. So from young-14 fit & happy, just a few months before I turned 15 I got hurt, spent most of the 90's depressed & miserable emotionally so I ate & ate & ate some more....and standing (or should I say laying down? although I can stand/walk with crutches ) I'm only 5'2/157cm so my weight at it's worse being 189lbs./85.7kgs., which is pretty large & I did have more trouble with transferring & showering. I found my "happy place" in life, got to a point where I could let go of the things that I could not change; and when cell phones became affordable I was able to go places without having to be taken & watched in case I got lost, & the internet literally opened up a whole new world. Now that I don't feel isolated & I'm not depressed it stopped being a struggle to keep my weight to a healthy amount. Now of course I've gone totally opposite & have a problem keeping enough weight ON...but that's because of pain & getting sick to my stomach. Mike makes everything so much better for me. All of his friends (who matter) have accepted me & the ones who have met my mom & KNOW what happened to me all say they benefit from having us as friends....they say it makes them better appreciate what they've got.

Thanks everyone!

I didn't want to "start anything".....I was just tired of the over-all fat bashing.....mind you I have seen it myself & quite frankly Mike has chewed out people for using disabled parking spots fat or thin.

[S&W Winger]

I refer to myself as having reverse anorexia: I look in the mirror now and see a pathetically thin, frail gimp in need of nourishment...

...yes, reverse anorexia, as in I see myself as too thin, as the anorexic sees their self as too fat...quite a logical matter, really...and having never been in this situation prior to SCI (oh, I could say they did leave that feeding tube in me to for over five months when I was already eating...) the fact remains that I am now pleasantly plump like our Tinbasher...perhaps we should bash ourselves some (more) with his hammer??

I wonder how many people see me in my motorized chair and think that I am just lazy, using the chair when I should be walking off my lunch of rabbit food...

Oooh, maybe I am just fat and lazy...maybe we all are...what's a matter with us? Let's all get up off our fat asses and walk, maybe go for a jog and lose some of this fat...

Those people in those glass houses tossing stones? Well, someone somewhere somehow some day some way will stumble across their Achille's heel and trip them up...as we all have a some thing...jeez wtf, I feel sorry for the rotten people that bash others for whatever reason: they are the most miserable, attempting to make themselves feel better by putting others down...pathetic Souls...they need Love too...so the next time you notice one of these bashers, in whatever ilk, just Love them and let them know that they too could be Lovable and Loved...they do not need to beg for Love by bashing someone else...poor sad things, they...


Thank you for sharing this thread, Wheeliebear...!

Edited by S&W Winger, 06 January 2011 - 02:50 PM.

[McTavish]

It would be a strange world if we were all the same. I really don,t understand why people just cannot accept others for what they are, we don,t know what goes on in others lives and what problems people have - live and let live is my motto - don,t try to change anyone. Most people are beautiful no matter what their size or shape is.

[qbounce]

Hate um!



jk;)

[edlee]

Like Bev said,,, you have to pity the haters,,,, for they are a sad lot, after all. In fact,, I think we should all pray for them, every chance we get. Let's start now...

"I pray their brakes go out going down a hill'
'I pray a pot falls from a window sill
and hits them in the head like I'd like to"

I think I've heard this,,, in a song, maybe,,, The sentiment can be applied BY anyone TO anyone,,, it's human nature. Try as we might,, our true natures seem to sneak out and bite us in the ass every once in a while. If one thinks himself good at,,, anything,,, it means he thinks others aren't as good at it,,,, not as good as he,,, worth less.

Slippery ain't it?
ed

[hooplady]

edlee, on 07 January 2011 - 01:20 AM, said:

our true natures seem to sneak out and bite us in the ass every once in a while.

Mmmm...if a complete para's nature sneaks up and bites said para in the ass and he/she is still blissfully unware, does it still count as a bite in the ass? Discuss....

[spot]

I'm a fat person. I used to be muscular. I was heavy, but looked O.K., because the weight was muscle. Now that all the active things I enjoyed are beyond my reach, the only thing left that I enjoy is food. I like to cook, as I can, and eat. I am not about to let them take this one, last pleasure away. I just have to learn to moderate things a bit. Still working on that part. I haven't quite got it right. So if you don't like me for that, so be it. I just don't care what anyone else thinks. I have enough to worry about, without that.

[isobar]

Hi,




It's good you're with your boyfriend because of the person he is. Reported on the ABC World News a few weeks ago , if ,  Americans  continue on the current pace "one out of every three people will be diabetics in the year 2050."  Obesity is the precursor for high blood pressure , diabetes, heart problems and a host of other health issues. We have commercials to encourage children to play one hour a day..... more and more children are diagnosed with diabetes at  alarming rates , this has become the norm not the exception. Although nothing is written in stone anyone that is capable of exercising , controlling their caloric intake and eating healthier foods should take advantage of these choices.  They're easier to control than some disease which will force you to change your habits anyway. Think of it as good health is wealth.

[slyd]

@LeahC
I unreservedly apologise for my comment about wheelie'ing off stairs. It was a nasty thing to say.
Sorry

[isobar]

Hi,




Reported on the ABC world news tonight , last evening all  school lunches will be changed to healthier meals in 2012 . The meals will consist of fruits and vegetables with one starchy food included once weekly...... no soft or drinks high in sugar will be sold . The die has been cast for the better . 

[S&W Winger]

isobar, on 07 January 2011 - 07:56 AM, said:

It's good you're with your boyfriend because of the person he is. Reported on the ABC World News a few weeks ago , if , Americans continue on the current pace "one out of every three people will be diabetics in the year 2050." Obesity is the precursor for high blood pressure , diabetes, heart problems and a host of other health issues. We have commercials to encourage children to play one hour a day..... more and more children are diagnosed with diabetes at alarming rates , this has become the norm not the exception. Although nothing is written in stone anyone that is capable of exercising , controlling their caloric intake and eating healthier foods should take advantage of these choices. They're easier to control than some disease which will force you to change your habits anyway. Think of it as good health is wealth.

isobar, on 14 January 2011 - 02:37 PM, said:

Reported on the ABC world news tonight , last evening all  school lunches will be changed to healthier meals in 2012 . The meals will consist of fruits and vegetables with one starchy food included once weekly...... no soft or drinks high in sugar will be sold . The die has been cast for the better . 

As reported by the thin good-looking guy over there in PA nibbling on nuts and berries and sipping chai latte...

[edlee]

Food is an addiction that is hard to control,,, cause,, ya gotta eat. Our bodies use our senses to keep us alive. What feels good to the senses generally pleases us. Whether its sight, or sound,, touch or taste,, if if looks good or feels good,, we go for it. Our mind,, on the other hand,, is the part of us that is supposed to hold us in check,, because we know in our mind that not all things that look, feel, or taste good,,, are really good FOR us. The mind is supposed to keep us doing these things that are bad for us.

Problem,,,,, sometimes the mind doesn't do it's job. In my case,, it seems to be perpetually unemployed in the eating department.
ed

Edited by edlee, 14 January 2011 - 08:27 PM.