43 replies to this topic

[Valo]

Trekinetic K2
Mike Spindle decided to redesign the wheelchair from scratch
A designer who has spent most of his career working on parts for Formula One cars has come up with a new, off-road wheelchair.

The Trekinetic K2 dispenses with the old tubular chassis and uses a carbon fibre monocoque instead.
Designer Mike Spindle was inspired to create the off-road chair when he saw someone wheeling through an airport lounge.
The K2 was launched at the Mobility Roadshow in Gloucestershire.

Design ideas

After the designer spotted a man in an airport departure lounge, in a metallic purple wheelchair, it occurred to him that somebody ought to be able to do an awful lot better.

"Much to my wife's disappointment, I started sketching this out on the back of an airline boarding pass," he told the BBC News website.

Five years later - a development phase that Mr Spindle describes as "extremely difficult" - Trekinetic chose the Mobility Roadshow to unveil a radical new design.
The K2 has three wheels - two large ones at the front that can take mountain bike tyres - and a smaller one at the back.

The company says it is ideally suited for off-road use but can be just as useful in towns and cities too.
The wheels have an easily adjustable camber so that the chair can have a slimmer profile for going through doorways and a wider - and more stable - 24 degree camber for outdoor activities.
The wheel tilt can be easily altered by rotating a cross shaft underneath the seat: at its slimmest, the K2 is 710mm wide and when fully adjusted it broadens out to 870mm.

Trekinetic had originally set out to design a new, modern and different design: the chair's off-road potential came after prototypes were shown to a group of wheelchair users who said they were unable to tackle more difficult surfaces in their current chairs.

The company thinks the K2 will appeal to relatively active people with good upper body strength, although push bars are available as an option.
Marketing information for the K2 stresses designer chic and desirability with black being the predominant colour.

The K2 owes a good deal to automotive innovation in its own design.

Sculptured seat

Mr Spindle compares the tubular chassis used by most wheelchairs to the one found on vintage cars.

"In fields of engineering such as F1, they have dispensed with the chassis idea and gone to what they call a monocoque," he explained.

"With a car you now have a very strong basic shell and you bolt all the components to that. With this, we've made the seat a sculptured shape to suit the user's body and we've made it out of carbon fibre which is extremely strong."

The K2 is consequently extremely light - with the quick-release wheels removed it weighs about 9kg.
Weather-proofing is by means of a golfing umbrella which attaches to the base of the seat. And Trekinetic says that the K2 can be folded up in about eight seconds.

Mr Spindle says the three-wheeler design lends itself much better to off-road use: with four wheels on an uneven surface, one wheel ends up losing contact.

"Then, you're pretty much beached until someone comes along."

Trekinetic plans to produce about 10 chairs a week from its plant at Uxbridge, Middlesex.

In spite of the fact that its website was launched a month ago without any publicity, the company says it has already had 1,600 hits and has received enquiries from as far away as South Africa and the USA.
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Full Article @ BBC News: http://news.bbc.co.u...ogy/5063672.stm

Trekinetic Website: http://www.trekinetic.com/home.html

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I think it's an interesting design, especially the use of carbon fibre - VERY Lighweight and tough not to mention a modern/cutting edge material considering it's used on every super car going like the Bugatii Veyron. I'll be very interested to see there over designs

Your thoughts?

Edited by Valo, 10 June 2006 - 07:37 PM.

[russ1]

Saw it on Friday at the Mobility Roadshow, thought it looked awful, putting the wheels at the front like that just seems to put the push rims in exactly the wrong place for efective propulsion and it's be a nightmare to transfer in and out of. Doesnt look like it'd be too east to bump up a kerb and I'm far from convinced it'd be practical to get into a car on your own.

As a niche product for trips out into the country maybe, as a practical alternative to an everyday chair it looks too much like a hi tech bath chair.

[Apparelyzed]

So, how do you pop a wheelie to get up a curb or over a large bump?

Still, at least it'll keep you dry in the rain whilst you wait for someone to give you a push!

Simon.

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[Valo]

I have to agree with you both, the design is interesting but not really very practical. I'm more impressed by the use of carbon fibre as it even lighter than titanium.

[HiltonP]

It's a hellish ugly looking thing !! . . .

I have my concerns about the use of carbon-fibre. Sure, it's a trendy, fashionable material but not appropriate for some applications, and this is one of them. I can't help but feel that our F1 designer has carbon-fibre on the brain, and thinks it’s the answer to all our prayers. He might also believe that by attaching the carbon-fibre name to the product we'll all go "Wow" and buy it. Carbon-fibre can be incredibly strong in some ways, but weak in others. Longevity is one of those weaknesses. We're not top-flight cyclists, or F1 drivers, who can throw away broken carbon-fibre components and get new replacements at will. Our chairs need to last us years, and take a steady pounding during that time.

It's a pity actually . . . with this guys knowhow and access to technology he had the opportunity to design and build a really good chair, but he missed the point (unless of course he's building them for a specialised niche market).

[Apparelyzed]

Another thing!

Most wheelchair backs are made from fabric. This is so there is a little 'give' for comfort reasons.

Put a Quad or Para in a carbon fibre bucket, and there will soon be pressure sore issues.

This is probably the biggest concern, as it could be potentially life threatening.

I wondered what would happen if the chair stopped suddenly at speed with regards to the placement of the large wheels, ie, Faceplant?

It's a shame I can only see problems with the chair, as a design object, it looks cool though!

Simon.

[HiltonP]

Simon, Simon, Simon . . .
We're going to have to work on your design tastes mate !! . . .

That thing looks like a 19th century galvanised bathtub on wheels !!

[milosh]

way fancy and useless for my taste. maybe aesthetically it looks interesting, but the design itself sucks a big time.

[Chrisonwheels]

Saw one at the Mobility Roadshow. Despite the assurances of the orange saleswoman I was shocked at the weight and couldn't lift the thing. I wouldn't be able to use it independently. I have very good upper-body strength.

[edlee]

Yes, it is a very interesting design . Obviously developed by ABs. Anyone who has tried to transfer into or out of it without the use of any lower body control , must surely have ended up on the floor.

I appreciate the effort. The more designs that are developed, the more improvements that will be made. Hopefully, some other designer will be inspired by something in this concept , to build a chair that will actually be useful.
ed

[wheeliebear75]

You know I do have to give credit for people trying to make better, but that does not always mean making a new chair all together. Looking at it I think going over bumps would be like going over backwards is in our chairs. But I'm with Simon......face plant waiting to happen. And lets face it a lot of us who are in chairs from accidents may not be able to take the fall. I know if I'm falling backwards I can tuck forward and not hit......um what are you supposed to do in the case of this chair, there's no where for you to go kiss the ground or hit your spine with your own chair? The sides of the seat look kinda high. With my side guards they're removable but that looks to be one solid piece. Which I'd like to know.....how do you fold that thing to get it in the trunk of a car?

My vote: I don't think it looks very practicle, comfortable, or safe. Thumbs down.

[Texaswheelz]

looks way to bulky and not practical at all. I'm sure a cushion from front to top would take care of any sores, but this isn't useable by anyone that I can see. I like that other people try to come up with something new, but they should atleast talk with a user to find out what we need and don't need. A chair that is almost impossible to transfer out of is useless. I could get in and out of that thing, but it would be a pain in the ass and not something I'd want to do more then once a day at most. They say it's for off pavement use? I do wheelies all the time when I'm off pavement, with that big wheelie bar that would be impossible. maybe though with no front wheels to dig in, I wouldn't need to do any, hell i couldn't with the position of the front wheels. I'd also have problems being about to push it, unless I was going backwards all the time.

I give it a C-, interesting and different look, complete failure for useability, but the camber system, ability to adjust it from 0 camber to 24 degrees or somewhere inbetween without having to remove anything brings it from a D- to C-.

Edited by Texaswheelz, 27 July 2007 - 03:56 PM.

[Tim13]

Kind of looks like a modernized version of the wheelchair that President Roosevelt is always pictured
sitting in.

[nomis]

Might make an ok beach chair but a bit expensive for just that.

[LadyPilot]

OK here's my tuppence worth:
The selling point of this chair is its apparent ability to be used in off road conditions.

As an off roader 365 days a year I am wholly unimpressed with this 'new' chair. The design isn't even new. Three wheels didn't catch on first time they appeared, so why bring them out again?


My chair has been customised to go off road (it has a 2" longer wheelbase than is usual), because it has a longer wheelbase it is extremely stable on rough ground and can quite happily cope on three wheels. I can also mini wheelie out of holes. The Trekinetic would be very hard to manoeuvre if it got stuck. Yes, even 24" tyres can get stuck.

I checked out the Trekinetic website. There isn't a single picture of anyone sitting in the chair, let alone using it off road. All references to the chair being put in a car, refer to AB's being able to do it in 8 secs.
Worst of all (IMOA) in the "Go off road safely" (it wouldn't copy and paste) is a patronizing bit of drivvle about 'our' safety off road, like you're a ten year old mental retard!

This Guy may well have spent hours designing this wheelchair, but I doubt very much if he actually asked a 'wheelie' what was wanted rather that he thought he knew better.

[nomis]

Great. You tell 'em, LadyPilot.

[James888]

Its been interesting in reading the cynical responses to this so thought Id throw in a few thoughts of my own
I am a user of the K-2 have never had a problem with kerbs, bumps or being beached although I will suggest there are ways of tackling these which are different to the way you would in a conventional chair
Face plants and tipping backwards are in fact extremely difficult if thats really what you want to acheive???
The seat itself is very comfortable and keeps you very secure wether that be round the shops or trekking out through the woods. The shock absorber more than takes the jolt out of kerbs, rocks, tree roots or what ever else gets in your way wherever you are
As far as the looks are concerned.....in my experience in a wheelchair you tend to get looked at in a sympathetic or even patronising kind of way.......in the K-2 Ive found it really refreshing the respect it commands
So my cynical friends......all I can say is...."Dont knock it til youve tried it"....and Im pretty sure none of you have !!!

[Tinbasher]

Front wheel configuration is certainly much more manuverable for tight spaces but I think they are not easy to get to run straight at least the one I tried wouldnt.

But what realy bothers me is buying a wheelchair from a Mr Spindle

[wheeliebear75]

James888, you said you have one? OK so how do you get them in a car trunk? And how is it on transferring? You're right I've never tried it, maybe I'll see one for myself at the wheelchair shop when I go if they have any.

[Texaswheelz]

James888, on Jul 30 2007, 03:48 PM, said:

Its been interesting in reading the cynical responses to this so thought Id throw in a few thoughts of my own
I am a user of the K-2 have never had a problem with kerbs, bumps or being beached although I will suggest there are ways of tackling these which are different to the way you would in a conventional chair
Face plants and tipping backwards are in fact extremely difficult if thats really what you want to acheive???
The seat itself is very comfortable and keeps you very secure wether that be round the shops or trekking out through the woods. The shock absorber more than takes the jolt out of kerbs, rocks, tree roots or what ever else gets in your way wherever you are
As far as the looks are concerned.....in my experience in a wheelchair you tend to get looked at in a sympathetic or even patronising kind of way.......in the K-2 Ive found it really refreshing the respect it commands
So my cynical friends......all I can say is...."Dont knock it til youve tried it"....and Im pretty sure none of you have !!!

Can you post some pictures up? As some one said before they don't have one picture of a person in one on their website. You act as if doing a wheelie is a bad thing, as a Para in a manual chair I'd be very limited to where I can go if I was unable to do wheelies, so yes that is something i want to achieve. There are plenty of chairs already with some sort of shock absorber, I had one over 10 years ago, this is nothing new, although they do use a different type.

I don't think anyone was worried about the looks they get while in the chair, but how the chair itself looks to them. Still above all I would like to see pictures of this chair with some one in it, with it being used off road, around town, beach, anywhere. Hell i think just being able to push it would be a chore with the wheels being place so far forward. Please enlighten us more and don't leave the forums with only 1 post or it will seem you just came here to spam us with some BS from the company trying to save face.

[Apparelyzed]

Since posting my first post in this thread, I have seen this chair 3 times.

First at NAIDEX on two stands, and when I quized both exhibitors about it, they didn't have a clue about it, and told me it was just for show.

The third time I saw it was in the foyer at ASPIRE, and again, it was just on display.

So, I too have yet to see anyone in it!

Come on James, post a picture of yourself in the chair and put us all out of our misery.

And a video clip of you going up a curb would really help as well.

Regards

Simon.

[lune14]

You just read my mind texaswheelz ;-)
James' profile states he is a 'paraplegic'.... I'm interested what level and comp/inc.

Personally, I think the design resembles that of a baby coach and I'd feel more stand-out than in an avg chair. I certainly wouldn't feel more 'respected'.

Also isn't it helpful for the designers/manufacturers to hear our concerns?? After all WE are the ones who will be purchasing these inventions. Constructive criticism is the way to bigger and better inventions.

[edlee]

Well said June14.

I, too, think " he doth protest too much" . Sounds very much like someone defending his own device.

I truly hope that I'm wrong, so please " Jimmie of the eights", Tell us who you are and send some pics. Or tell us where you got it so we can ask them for pics.

Heck, if you live within a couple hundred miles, I'll drive over and take the pictures myself.
ed

[BillS]

Doing a quick google search I found a couple of pictures. Personally I don't think it would work well for me.

Imagine trying to get this up a few steps. Currently I just pop back and have one guy in back of me and one in front and we roll up the stairs. To go down a curb I pop back and just bump down on the back wheels. Going up I hit the curb at speed and pop the front wheels over just before I hit the curb. None of those methods look possible with this.

[Texaswheelz]

Thanks for the pictures, to be honest the make it look even more awkward to move around in then I thought it did before. I don't know, maybe you grab the rim from way down and let go at the top? Transferring in and out of it still looks to be a hell of a chore. 2nd picture has some huge push handles back there. I don't get any on any of my chairs as I don't like random people and mostly random kids just run up and start pushing(still happens though). I think with this chair it would be needed to get around aswell as I do now.

[Apparelyzed]

Hi James,

Sorry if the posts seemed a bit agressive, but all people want is some info posted on the chair, so as to try and understand how it pushes.

The request for photo's of you was made because so far the only photograph of a disabled person in the wheelchair is that of a wheelchair celebrity on the BBC.

As a picture can say so much about joint position and posture, this is something so important that as there are so few of these chairs about, to actually find someone who owns one is rare. To show just the wheelchair on it's own isn't very helpfull in trying to get a feel for the chair, as the person in the chair is an integral part of the design, and in my view should be shown as such.

Anyway, don't feel pressured to post photo's, it was just a request made out of hunger for information!

I've emailed Mike, the designer, so if anyone wants me to ask any questions, PM them all to me, and when I get the answers, I'll post the results.

Regards

Simon.

P.S. I have been informed that James is a customer of the K-2, and not affiliated with Trekinetic.

[James888]

Right then.....questions....questions !!!

Firstly I dont work for Trekinetic nor am I related in anyway to Mr Spindle......I got a K-2 and really believe in what has been acheived with the chair which is why I joined the forum.....anyway...

Someone asked about kerbs.....going up a kerb is quite easy although it is best tackled backwards....back the chair up to the kerb and lean forward so the rear castor lifts.....the small wheels on the footrest stop the chair tipping completely forward....you then just wheel backwards.....quick easy and in my experience alot safer than doing wheelies

Transferring from and to the chair isnt as hard as it may seem....the seat itself tilts backwards and forwards with the use of a clever little switch behind the seat....the picture of Ade in it shows the chair full reclined but it does go completely upright.....you then have the two very stable wheels to use to position yourself.....without trying it for yourself you will just have to believe me when I say its not as hard as you may think

As for getting it into the boot of the car....well....once the wheels are off the actual chair is fairly light so its not to bad although maybe not as easy as your average small folding chair....personally I dont have a problem doing it

Yes it does go in a straight line and as is very easy to steer with the drum brakes...pushing I find is alot easier than a standard chair....with the wheels at the front youre able to get a much longer push so possibly a bit less effortfull and easier to control

Apart from the photos I think Ive covered everything so far but if anyone has anything else they want to know then....

[Tinbasher]

You go up a kerb backwards? ...... You back up to the kerb and do a sort of front wheely? How do you stop yourself ending up in a heap, like a sack of spuds in the road? Actually Ade looks like like a sack of spuds in a wheelbarrow in the picture.

Here's an idea why not put the big wheels at the back then you can approach kerbs without much reduction in speed and kick up your castors bump up and hardly pause!

This just looks like a really ill thought out idea brilliantly executed!

OK enough fun. I can see how it might be better off road than a conventional geometry chair but beyond that it's too gimmiky.

Tom

[edlee]

I would like to apologize to James888 for my, not very polite , attitude toward his earlier post. I like to think of myself as reasonably tolerant, but prove myself wrong all too often.

I hope you will understand that I have come to look at this forum as my sanctuary and those here as my friends. I sometimes feel the need to defend it and them from anything I perceive to be less than genuine.

I'm sure that as you post here more often, on other subjects, I will get to know you better and hopefully to prove to you that I am not always that agressive.

Welcome and thanks for your posts.
ed

[Apparelyzed]

Hi,

I have been in contact with Mike, and he has asked me to post the following with regards to some of the questions raised in this thread.

Official Response

All are true and verifiable. We have many pictures of people using the K-2 - but it is up to them to post them and we respect their privacy.

1) The K-2 is in daily use in UK (59) India (2), Dubai (3) Australia (4) Belgium (4) Switzerland (1) France (1) Ireland (1) These figures include dealer stock/demonstrators and orders in progress.

2) We stay in e-mail contact with all our customers and we try to engender a friendly, caring and approachable atmosphere.

3) The K-2 was developed over a 6 year period, with extensive questionnaires and testing by wheelchair users. We listened, solved the awesome engineering problems and offered them new ideas to consider. Did you know the K-2 is subject to 6 International Patent Applications. We believe non of these ideas have ever been seen in a wheelchair before. I bet non of you posters could guess what they all are, because unless you examine or own a K-2, you'll not easily see the benefits.

4) Fourteen separate prototypes were built. We did this because we wanted to offer the world a better wheelchair. We could have listened to our accountants, who pleaded with us to selling and at Prototype 9 and introduce improvements along the way. But I didn't want that. I didn't want owners buying a K-2, only to see it go out of date next month. I wanted it as near to perfect as possible from day one. To date we have had no recalls or failure trends. That's because we we were thorough in our development and testing.

5) Our chief tester declared as twice as fast and twice as good as the market leading***** *** over rough ground

6) A famous basketball athlete has tested for the forthcoming BBC Beyond Boundaries series, which is a monumental trek across the Andes.

His first words after testing were, 'Wow! you could create an all new Olympic event, just because of this chair has. No manual, goes over mud and grass like this".

The producers of the programme selected the K-2 over all the rivals for the Andes trek. However in the end negotiations reached stalemate over funding and editorial rights and we withdrew from the project. They used the RGK machines from previous series and I think that in fact it was the correct choice for them and have no problem in saying as much.

The TREKINETIC K-2 is and everyday, primarily outdoor, wheelchair with a mountain bike capability, all in a foldable package.

Some users may well find it slightly awkward to get it into the car, but is it so bad going with your AB friends to the park or beach?

7) Nobody has rung me up and said I can't get it over kerbs. Although they have said - the method described in the User Manual is totally wrong and they have come up with a more effective method.

8) All our customers except one, are delighted with the product and use words like 'fantastic', 'life changing', 'brilliant ',thank you' or stuff like "I lived here all my life and I can now get up that hill" and so on.

9) I would guess that 50 % of K2 owners now take them on holiday and National Airlines are calling to discuss safe handling of passenger's TREKINETIC. Instead of the wall by the Promenade they are now in the beach, using the umbrella as a sun shade. One lady, who suffers from MS has just completed 75 miles, all off road, all on ground 'Unsuitable for Wheelchairs' of the West Highland Way with her AB partner assisting where necessary. I think they would say they have got the life the lost, back.

10) The UK Forestry Commission has just completed testing in Sherwood Forest Nottingham, where they want to open us their Mountain Bike trails to wheelchair users. The 'testees' were the manual TREKINETIC k-2, against 13 Electric buggies and one large tyred Beach Chair. The Beach chair was actually very good over the rough ground, but you can't self propel them and they wouldn't go through the Forest gates. Also if you think the K-2 is awkward to fold up.

They Forestry Commission have, subject to funding ordered 4 TREKINETIC's and 1 Electric chair to be introduced as a pilot hire scheme.

They found the K-2' suitable for the Beginner and Intermediate MTB tracks and it was the sense of achievement that the K2 offered, that made their minds up.

In the Scottish Highlands similar schemes are underway. See The Oban Times, page 7, July 26 2007 for more details.

11) The K-2 has been nominated for 6 International Design and Innovation Awards in 2006. We have, so far won, the Coveted Frost and Sullivan Award for Innovative design in Europe and the three page report refers to our work as pioneering and that the K-2 is the 'first in a New Generation of wheelchairs'

12) Sorry to your doubters, but when we ask K-2 owners ' What do you like about your new TREKINETIC K-2, they say the Comfort and it's either so fast, or easy to push. Once peoples arm muscles develop for the new front drive propulsion system, they find it easy and natural.

After all it's where you hands naturally fall isn't it guys? Why would you want the wheels behind you - just so you can do wheelies? Is there anything more awkward than pushing wheels that are located behind you?

To verify this I can tell you, we have two young teenage girls in K-2's. On in The UK one in Dubai. There parents bought solely because after years in joystick controlled electric wheelchair they found that in the K-2, they could move under there own steam, for the first time ever. We insisted that their OT's came along and assess which they duly did. Like I sad, we nor our appointed dealers will not sell you a K-2, unless we think you will benefit.

13) The front wheel drive TREKINETIC for some, may be more obstructive to get into - but remember, so is any front drive chair.

However we supply a transfer plate as an option. Problem is nobody ends up using the transfer plate, they simply find a way to get in that suits them.

14) The K-2 is sold through 10, soon 11 Uk dealers who have to but at least two demonstrators. These people would not get their chequebooks out so fast, if The did not consider the K-2, a quantum leap forward for wheelchair users. product.

15) The are over 300 people in the USA on the waiting list for a K-2

16) If it's no good why are the worlds wheelchair manufacturers asking for us to send them examples 'for evaluation, possibly leading to a collaboration'

17) I'm sorry if anybody thinks that an AB, I have no right to suggest what wheelchair users need. I can understand the sentiment, but is that not like saying only a cleaner can design a better Hoover. The fact is you have to be an engineer and if you want to offer a fresh approach, using modern materials, ideally you need to come form and industry that is at the cutting edge of technology.

Anyhow the best accolade I have had so far from a TREKINETIC K-2 owner is 'That it feels as if it was designed by a wheelchair user'

All I'd like to say in closing is:

I'm not asking anybody to like the K-2. All I'd like to ask is, put your preconceptions to one side.

After all,

If we never allow ourselves to the water's edge, we'll never be able to tell it's warm or not

Mike Spindle

2nd July 2007