24 replies to this topic

[mcjane]

I was diagnosed T 5/6 complete spinal cord injury and was told that I should have NO sensation or movement below that level. Well...I do. My legs buzz...they tingle...and they have spasms that try to flip me over ! Two PT's told me I was mis-diagnosed..that I'm really INcomplete...but...who knows? Voice(s) of EXPERIENCE? Please !

BTW..it is 6:07 PM in Florida

[Ratticis]

I was told by the "experts" (aka useless assholes) that I was full of shit when my side and my knees were hurting because "you're paralyzed, that's impossible". They figured I was just trying to get morphine

[sh1wn]

I have the same issue, they say I'm complete but I can feel all my insides and can feel my right foot, not normal sensation but it reacts to pain, every injury is different so I'm sure its hard to separate us into two groups.

[pistol_pete]

I have shallow sensation in my left foot, the old pins and needles feeling, I can feel if someone touches my foot but I wouldn't know if you stuck a pi in it.
and sensation in my butt.
but no movement, which is what I really want.
I was told that to have some sort of sensation to an extent is fairly common in completes

[twentieth]

I am T-5/6 complete and fathered five children (?) and know when I need to cath. I think it is more a term of art. If you cannot walk and cannot feel most things then your "complete". Of course, that is only my opinion, and right now my opinion is heavily clouded by happy pills!

[qbounce]

I'm a complete but have quite a bit of sensory touch below the injury line, with no sense of pain or temperature. I also have spasms and buzzing.

Complete and incomplete is related to whether you can feel the bowels or not.

[S&W Winger]

I get that buzzing sensation when I am late with my Lyrica...

Also, a spasm occurs when with stimulation below the level of injury, the nerves attempt to send the signal to the brain [to no avail] that something is happening...but since there is no or little connection from those nerves to the brain due to the SCI, the signal loops back and sort of gives feedback upon itself in the form of a spasm...well that's how I understand this...

I am complete at T7, though with pain in my toes [neuropathic, thus I take Lyrica for the various neuropathy]...I am also incomplete at C6, with a few goodies higher up, such as AD, other neuropathies, etc....

I wish you well...do you take something like Baclofen or at least Valium for the spasms? And Lyrica or another similar med for the neuropathic pain?

Edited by S&W Winger, 24 May 2011 - 05:59 AM.

[jass1]

I was told complete but i can feel sensation of touch,cold and wind if my feel exposed.

[andycm]

Complete. Can't feel anything below injury level other than pain, but not relating to any particular action. Can't even feel stomach to know when I've had enough to eat. And no voluntary movement below injury line either.

[edlee]

I'm like Andy, above. No movement, no sensation,, a whole lot of neuropathic pain.

Somewhere on the site is a similar thread where Simon gave the clinical definition.

My thought,, and it is only my thought,, is that if you have NO movement AND NO sensation, other than neuropathic pain, below your cord injury ,, then you are a complete,, Either of those makes you incomplete,, because,, obviously,, something is getting through,, hence, incomplete.
ed

[mellowgator]

can you feel your bung hole? that seems to be the standard according to simon.

[BillS]

I agree with some of the others here. No feeling and no movement is complete. If you feel anything or move anything then it's incomplete. It might be totally useless version of incomplete but it's still incomplete.

Sort of like a light switch with a dimmer. Is the light on or off is a different question than what position is the dimmer in.

[mcferguson]

The classification of spinal cord injuries is explained in detail here.

The American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) Classification system includes ASIA A, B, C, D, or E.

A = Complete: No motor or sensory function is preserved in the sacral segments S4-S5 (controls your anus).
B = Incomplete: Sensory but not motor function is preserved below the neurological level and includes the sacral segements S4-S5.
C = Incomplete: Motor function is preserved below the neurological level, and more than half of the key muscles below the neurological level have a muscle grade less than 3.
D = Incomplete: Motor function is preserved below the neurological level, and more than half of the key muscles below the neurological level have a muscle grade of 3 or more.
E = Normal: motor and sensory functions are normal.

Muscle power grades are found here.

Grade 0- complete paralysis
Grade 1 -flicker of contraction present.
Grade 2- active movement with gravity eliminated.
Grade 3-Active movement against gravity.
Grade 4-Active movement against gravity and some resistance described as poor, fair, moderate strength.
Grade 5- Normal power.

[Edinburgh Colin]

 mcferguson, on 25 May 2011 - 02:52 PM, said:

The classification of spinal cord injuries is explained in detail here.

The American Spinal Injury Association (ASIA) Classification system includes ASIA A, B, C, D, or E.

A = Complete: No motor or sensory function is preserved in the sacral segments S4-S5 (controls your anus).
B = Incomplete: Sensory but not motor function is preserved below the neurological level and includes the sacral segements S4-S5.
C = Incomplete: Motor function is preserved below the neurological level, and more than half of the key muscles below the neurological level have a muscle grade less than 3.
D = Incomplete: Motor function is preserved below the neurological level, and more than half of the key muscles below the neurological level have a muscle grade of 3 or more.
E = Normal: motor and sensory functions are normal.

Muscle power grades are found here.

Grade 0- complete paralysis
Grade 1 -flicker of contraction present.
Grade 2- active movement with gravity eliminated.
Grade 3-Active movement against gravity.
Grade 4-Active movement against gravity and some resistance described as poor, fair, moderate strength.
Grade 5- Normal power.

So I know I was classified as T4 Incomplete on my paperwork from the hospital. My spinal consultant who looked after me whilst in the hospital and has had the pleasure of regular visits with me in the year since discharge refers to me as T3, get that one ? You would think she and the papers agreed!


I fractured T4 and had internal bleeding in my spinal canal causing cord damage before I had a laminectomy of T3 to T7 to release the blood and crap.

Now according to the Asia scale above I don't fit that either. I have sensation on 100% of my body below the injury T3 or T4, you choose, at least skin and to a certain extend muscular sensation, although I have no feeling of hunger for 2 years. I had kidney stones, was spasming and had AD from them but felt nothing. I can move my left foot, toes ,ankle (classed as 5 by physio on discharge) a little quad activity can lift my foot off the floor, can crunch my abs on my left side only got a lovely para paunch on the right side and no movement on the right side except for a little foot movement returned in the last few months.

So I can be T3 or T4 but the Asia scale does not seem to fit ? I'm between B and C as to be C I'd need more than half of the key muscles to be active and I don't think that's the case.?? Also you could clas me as Brown Sequard Syndrome.

I challenge anyone to provide me with the correct classification or any classification for that matter!

I do know I cannyy walk! so I'll settle for Paraplegic who can most definitely feel pain both real and neural and twitches, jerks, bounces and moves both voluntarily and involuntarily and all of that lopsided! Is there an acronym for that lot?

[BillS]

Colin,

The real question is....can you feel/control your anus? That's seems to be the major factor according to that list on whether you're complete or incomplete.

So come on guys we know you can walk, feel, and do everything else but if you can't feel/control your anus then what good is it?

Edited by BillS, 25 May 2011 - 09:33 PM.

[ebeth]

I think that if you have that tingling feeling in your legs and you have spasms that's actually proof that you're a complete.

[edlee]

Quote

C = Incomplete: Motor function is preserved below the neurological level, and more than half of the key muscles below the neurological level have a muscle grade less than 3.

I'm guessing C, Colin,,, that "less than" gives a lot of leeway. It says that MORE than 1/2 your muscle below your injury either can move against gravity,, or they can't,,, pretty broad class, as I see it.

Would someone like to link me to an explanation of " Brown Sequard Syndrome". Or are you gonna make me google it myself??
ed

[mcjane]

If it's about the bowel...does that mean incompletes don't have to do a "bowel program" but poop without stimulation or assistance? I miss my bladder more than my legs. In rehab the nurse told me "Your bowel is like a dog, you can train it. But your bladder is like a cat, you can't control it." Control it? I can't even figure it out....

[sh1wn]

If my bowel was a dog i'd shoot the damn thing!

[Shan]

 andycm, on 24 May 2011 - 07:30 PM, said:

Complete. Can't feel anything below injury level other than pain, but not relating to any particular action. Can't even feel stomach to know when I've had enough to eat. And no voluntary movement below injury line either.

Edited by Shan, 28 May 2011 - 11:21 PM.

[Astack23]

 sh1wn, on 28 May 2011 - 10:52 PM, said:

If my bowel was a dog i'd shoot the damn thing!

LOL!

[edlee]

Yeah,, I'd blow a hole in it, too,,,,,,,,, no,, wait,, it already has a hole in it.

Do you think that I could just put a plug in it,, and pull the plug a couple times a week??? Wouldn't work with the bladder,, but theres a lot of intestine down there to fill up.

I've heard of anal plugs,, but thought they were sex aids of some kind. Maybe I'm on to something with this. Could go with miniture ones for babies,,, help out the new parents.

Gotta go,, plans to make.
ed

Edited by edlee, 29 May 2011 - 05:32 PM.

[mcjane]

 sh1wn, on 28 May 2011 - 10:52 PM, said:

If my bowel was a dog i'd shoot the damn thing!

LMAO

[mellowgator]

 mcjane, on 28 May 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

If it's about the bowel...does that mean incompletes don't have to do a "bowel program" but poop without stimulation or assistance? I miss my bladder more than my legs. In rehab the nurse told me "Your bowel is like a dog, you can train it. But your bladder is like a cat, you can't control it." Control it? I can't even figure it out....

incompletes do have a bowel program at least i do. the only difference is that i can feel when i have to go.

i don't have a problem with controlling my bladder. i do use oxytrol and i don't leak unless i have a uti.

good luck to you.

mellowgator

[Tetracyclone]

 mcjane, on 28 May 2011 - 06:29 PM, said:

If it's about the bowel...does that mean incompletes don't have to do a "bowel program" but poop without stimulation or assistance?

No, it does not mean that. My doc quoted a statistic that only 10% of SCIs get back regular bladder and bowel function.