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Feet Problems - Turn Purple,swell Up And Turn White When Touched




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21 replies to this topic

#1 pinkcloud

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 04:13 PM

T7/8 browns sequard

History
On sitting, standing and walking, me feet turn red, the blotchey red followed by purple with veins pooping out everywhere. Doctors done know why except to blame me poorly autonomis system (ok so why not on lying down? the toes only turn red when i do this no other part of foot.
Toes bent up everywhere/ bent down, some rigid permantly after too much spasming. This is due to tendon problems from back spasms and can only be helped by an operation.

What I'm doing to preserve what I got
So I lay down most of the day now - walk a tiny bit at home, wheelchair outside and STILL the problems exist yet now are getting worse.........me pulses are great me gp says, me bloods all healthy 100 per cent....

Help needed - whys it happening?
Why do I swell up, parts of the feet and ankle differnt sizes and why do white marks get left on there after only a light touch and then slowly disappears at the same rate as a sink empties when a plug is pulled - strong touches like shoes cutting into me for example leaves a white dent and takes ages to disappear?

Help needed - what can I do to avoid this?
Massage helps if they push all the blood back up the leg, but its soon there again :-o If i was just to leave them like this - is it dangerous?

Edited by pinkcloud, 11 June 2011 - 04:14 PM.


#2 dangerousdave

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 04:35 PM

I aint no doc
Do you have muscel wastage ?
Do your calves cramp ?
Are you diabetic ?
You walk a bit so not complete

Sounds like your fluids are sinking and not being pumped back up
So raise your leg (s) higher then your hips and this should help drain the fluids
You shouldn't have a healthy pulse through your feet, this is where it should be the weakest
If white turns red quicker then 3/5 seconds all is as it should be for blood flow

The problem might not have anything to do with SCI and they are numerous
Return to GP for a more thorough examination and blood tests

Wish you well Pinky

#3 Smileyblue

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 05:01 PM

I agree with DD.. Either circulation or water retention.. But you should definitely have it checked out more thoroughly.. A second opinion maybe? You don't want to risk DVT's..

;-)

What's important is not what happens to us, but how we react to what happens to us..
God gave us two ends, one to think with, n one to sit on.. Success depends on which one u use.. Heads you win, tails u lose..


#4 Edinburgh Colin

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 05:17 PM

Sounds like fluid for sure, I have similar issues when I spend too long in the chair continuously. As DD says the blotches clearing is normal so is the "contour" like effect from your shoes, I can have 3 steps to get to my knees, - shoes, socks, top of TED anti-clot socks.
You need to get them higher than your hips for a couple of periods each day and see your GP, maybe get some diuretics to try and shift it. I'm incomplete and it can be really sore too when the tissues get stretched particularly on the top of my feet.
EC
Impossible only describes a problem that needs viewed from a different perspective

#5 pinkcloud

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 05:43 PM

Hi DD

Just been in hospital for non-related sci and all bloods are 100 per cent normal and in tip top health (yee haa :) ) Yeap I'm incomplete - spasms and pain have damaged me feet real bad so i can only balance on the outside part of the feet thus why limited ability now

It was me GP who said me pulses were great (i regulate at 110 - 114 with a low bp, ought to mean internal bleeding, yet for me mucked up autonomic system its normal they say) so maybe why she thought it was a fast pulse? Plus it shoots up higher when me bp raises thoroughout the day when I go loo. Thanks for explaining this for me DD, I'll do me sums to see if its slow for me, like it is for normal people.

I did that test thing you said- takes 10 - 12 seconds for a slight finger touch test to turn purple again. I'm due to see a neurologist soon so I will show him - me right knee with arthritis pumps fluids up too, has done for years - you helped me think that maybe the fluids in me feet stay there, like in me knee trying to protect it due to the spasms/tendon trouble?

Me med friends are lost and just say its me autonomic system not pumping the blood around....i feel your right it needs more testing and I'll get that sorted as its new.I just felt silly asking a neurologist but wont feel silly now. Although your not a doc, even more reason why i ask you lot,as in lots of cases, your the real experts who've helped me so much so far :)

Cheers both to you and smiley :)

Edited by pinkcloud, 11 June 2011 - 05:48 PM.


#6 greybeard

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 05:46 PM

If you press firmly above your ankles, do you leave finger marks? If so it sounds like fluid. I alternate with diuretic tablets and knee-length pressure socks as I find the effect of the diuretics falls off after a week or two. A Doppler test will make sure your blood supply to your feet is adequate and the socks can be prescribed - 2 pairs initially, then one every 3 months if needed. Activa brand are the best Ive found.

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#7 dangerousdave

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 05:59 PM

Dont want to worry you but pressure a red toe white and it should turn red within 5 seconds maximum
10 to 12 seconds is to long
You do seem to have a circulation problem that should be seen as serious
I do hope the toe color is never black
Pink, red, dark red for short periods, purple could be coldness, black you loose your toes
If you have a minute - talk to a NHS helpline nurse

I aint no doctor and as some know I have a broken leg at the moment - if my toes dont return to red after 5 seconds max - I have been told to return to A&E

They use a ultra sound machine to listen to the pulses in your feet
Normal blood presure test doesnt mean sod all for the pulses in the foot

Sorry if I sound alarmest - I'm only speaking from my own experiances

#8 pinkcloud

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:01 PM

Thanks EC

I have to spend most of me 24 hours in bed now - sitting up sends back into major spaz, turns me toes up more rigid and pain - unbearable....leaning up on one shoulder is me life position now. I got a bed in me lounge too, so its ok and lifes not limited, I lay down in public too on seats, lucky I aint the shy type B) . That why I waiting for mri scans to see what the hecks going on lol.

Yet I go out a few times a week, as I got me chair. Thing is though...I cant raise me feet up in a car or chair and thats when it happens, so me kids or whoever is with me massages the legs and pushes the blood back up (lasts for 10 minutes maybe) yet the swelling goes down a few hours after when home.

The red toes - well this happens when I lay down...and does go away except when I put warm heated slippers on (but the skins either hot already or freezing cold to touch depending on if i'm having a hot or cold time - outside environment makes no difference to me)

I go google up them stocking things, i rarely wear socks/shoes due to sticking up or down toes - me helper cant put them on during them times, so i dont know if even them would be available :(

thanks as always EC, i'll keep on keeping on til I get some relief, as we do :)

#9 pinkcloud

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:11 PM

If you press firmly above your ankles, do you leave finger marks? If so it sounds like fluid. I alternate with diuretic tablets and knee-length pressure socks as I find the effect of the diuretics falls off after a week or two. A Doppler test will make sure your blood supply to your feet is adequate and the socks can be prescribed - 2 pairs initially, then one every 3 months if needed. Activa brand are the best Ive found.


Hi mr greybeard

Ohhh just done that test too, yeap big white marks, just like on the foot test that DD advised me to do. Bigger than the size of me fingers too - and real slow to turn from white (white looks like dead skin colour white rather than me pale complexion type white).

I'm going to me neurologist and showing him these clever two tests and wearing sandles that cause white indents like our EC describes happens too. I go check out that brand on google thank you. And will be prepared just incase I need water tablets like you do (major troubles as I drink loads due to medicated dry mouth) and a neuropathic bladder.

I'll get me reserch now to prepare for another new updated bladder programme just in case.

Thanks lots for ya help.

#10 pinkcloud

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:31 PM

Hey bad news to hear about your leg Dangerous, I so hope you are still able to make your bike shows even if its dropping you off in a car and leaving you to party.

I'm not alarmed thanks DD for your honesty, I am one who looks at worst case scenerios, thinks right I'm going to make sure that never happens and do me best to preserve what I've got, then put it to the back of me head where it belongs as I live a new updated routine.

I'll go phone up nhs direct, like ya say they are good. Me feet turn purple from within 5 minutes to a few hours continously.....a day out to the shops takes this long - and they real hurt - a deep dull ache and feel like they are 'full of pressure'. I wondered why this was.

When skin is cold they turn red like frost bite, lucky I cant feel them as cold as I can only go out in sandals, even in the windy rain. Too - big wool boots sometimes if the toes dont spaz - else its naked feet. I know, dangerous and yeap I have scraped naked toe skin along on pavement, but if not...I'm housebound so I cope with it, small price to pay for freedom :)

Edited by pinkcloud, 11 June 2011 - 06:35 PM.


#11 dangerousdave

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 06:35 PM

Be aware, do your best and play hard Pinky
Time for me to put my legs up for a rest

#12 pinkcloud

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 07:22 PM

Be aware, do your best and play hard Pinky
Time for me to put my legs up for a rest


:wink: :) thank you dangerous

#13 greybeard

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Posted 11 June 2011 - 09:18 PM

Hi mr greybeard

Ohhh just done that test too, yeap big white marks, just like on the foot test that DD advised me to do. Bigger than the size of me fingers too - and real slow to turn from white (white looks like dead skin colour white rather than me pale complexion type white).

Sorry PC. When I mentioned finger marks, I meant dents that only slowly fill when the pressure is released, rather than blanching. By the end of the day, even when wearing the pressure socks, I can leave dents like this from the ankles to under the knees all round the lower leg. It goes down a little at night, but not completely. I can´t wear sandals because of the swelling between the straps. Good trainers help prevent the feet from swelling, although I´m now 2 sizes up from what I used to wear.

The ultrasound that DD mentioned is known as the Doppler test.

Edited by greybeard, 11 June 2011 - 09:19 PM.

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#14 zia

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:23 AM

Thanks EC

I have to spend most of me 24 hours in bed now - sitting up sends back into major spaz, turns me toes up more rigid and pain - unbearable....leaning up on one shoulder is me life position now. I got a bed in me lounge too, so its ok and lifes not limited, I lay down in public too on seats, lucky I aint the shy type B) . That why I waiting for mri scans to see what the hecks going on lol.

Yet I go out a few times a week, as I got me chair. Thing is though...I cant raise me feet up in a car or chair and thats when it happens, so me kids or whoever is with me massages the legs and pushes the blood back up (lasts for 10 minutes maybe) yet the swelling goes down a few hours after when home.

The red toes - well this happens when I lay down...and does go away except when I put warm heated slippers on (but the skins either hot already or freezing cold to touch depending on if i'm having a hot or cold time - outside environment makes no difference to me)

I go google up them stocking things, i rarely wear socks/shoes due to sticking up or down toes - me helper cant put them on during them times, so i dont know if even them would be available :(

thanks as always EC, i'll keep on keeping on til I get some relief, as we do :)


My boyfriends legs, feet and toes also turn purple. He is a T10 complete. He told me it was due to lack of circulation. He has started wearing support sox and they seem to be making a difference. You mentioned that you rarely wear socks or shoes because your toes stick up or down. Chuck goes thru the same thing. The sox he wears have elastic holes at the toes that help accomodate the toes. Also - not sure if your helper has tried this or not - have your helper grasp your foot around the ankle and lightly apply pressure to the bend in the back (where your foot meets your back calf). Pushing on this with his/her fingers should help straighten your foot and toes somewhat. I learned that little trick when I was baby-sitting and trying to dress an infant. Trying to put tights and little shoes on her feet was damn near impossible. They would automatically curly up. Her mother suggested I press behind her ankle and it worked. I assume it's a natural reflex. I use the technique with Chuck when I am taking off his sneakers or putting them on. Or when he has first gotten into bed. His legs spasm fiercely then. I press there and also behind his knees. I think it helps because the spasms seem to ease up and his legs will start to relax (as much as they can). I try to massage his legs, too. Pushing the blood upwards and rubbing them to warm them up. I don't know if any of this will help - but it's all I have right now. Each day is still a learning experience for me.

Do you have a hospital bed? If so - try elevating your legs for a while. If not - use some pillows to elevate them - I think that might help with the swelling. It will also get the blood moving in your hip, bum, area. Which I think is always beneficial if you are not moving too much.

I enjoy reading your posts.

Maria

#15 pinkcloud

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 08:41 AM

whow maria thank you so much, I'm so relived to have found another like me with me feet, although I'm sad at the same time too as its horrible.

May I ask how long it was before your loved one got these troubles, the circulation thing started a few weeks after the inter-costo-transversectomy posterior approach discectomy t7/8 (yet scar begins well above this area and is in the shape of a backwards c) the foot thing started with in turning of feet, one spasm toe now the right toe sticks up in the air, the left toe sticks down - thus walking means being like a trapezze artist walking on side of me feet. Does this ever get better? Me consultants say its back spasm thats causing this.

I asked me two boys (me 'carers') if they could do that with their toes...they so noooo mammy it really hurts, also they also spaz their legs like mine do yet cant make them go as fast as mine, its a competition we have to lighten what can be scary as fun. Yet to me, this does not hurt.

Does your loved ones consultant explain why this happens? I believe its because I cant walk on normal walking muscles - so walked on reserve muscles and now they are worn out. The circulation thing because the autonomic system got damaged they say, like a diabetics does.

I also get referred pain in me feet - so for example i have gynaecology/bladder/bowel pain I cant feel there - is felt in me back, left groin and toes instead - like a heartattack is felt in the left arm. I wonder if ya loved one has this too? Please dont feel pressured to answer, what you gave me is well more than helpful.

I am soooooo excited now you have given me these tips as me lifes going to be sooo much improved and I can not thank you enough for taking the time to reply. A small post can easily equal a lifetime of smiles. And why I come on here and hope I can return the favour to another. Thank you for your compliment :)

#16 esslouis

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 10:55 AM

hi pinkcloud sorry to hear of your probs - lucky only my back is in spasm at the mo!! Whats really weird is my toes are in spasm when i wake up and have to wait for them to come back to earth. Try the activa stockings - they really work. I have a prob with fluid building up in my legs and ankles and found tabs don't work. Tried these stockings as a last resort and found they do the job and i don't have cankles now. Also i don't know if its poss with you but i have reflexogy down on my feet every couple of weeks and even thou i can't feel it - it seems to help with the fluid build up and also with the spasming toes in the morning. It helps relax me and i can usually get my head down for a couple bliss free hours of pain free kipping. i would have it more often but can't afford it. Love esslouis

#17 scd

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 03:02 PM

Hi again pinkcloud,

Some of the symptoms sound close enough (my right leg only) to maybe check out my diagnosis of Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD).

#18 Tatiana

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 06:44 PM

hiya :-)..my feet are just like you have explained and i have 2 blood clots in my left leg and one in my right.

The one on the left is worse than the right. My feet swelled first and then my lower legs.

Not saying that this is what you have but its worth being considered if you are looking at possibilities.

jeannette x

Hi again pinkcloud,

Some of the symptoms sound close enough (my right leg only) to maybe check out my diagnosis of Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD).



After reading this it also sounds like my problem.

#19 pinkcloud

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 08:22 PM

hi pinkcloud sorry to hear of your probs - lucky only my back is in spasm at the mo!! Whats really weird is my toes are in spasm when i wake up and have to wait for them to come back to earth. Try the activa stockings - they really work. I have a prob with fluid building up in my legs and ankles and found tabs don't work. Tried these stockings as a last resort and found they do the job and i don't have cankles now. Also i don't know if its poss with you but i have reflexogy down on my feet every couple of weeks and even thou i can't feel it - it seems to help with the fluid build up and also with the spasming toes in the morning. It helps relax me and i can usually get my head down for a couple bliss free hours of pain free kipping. i would have it more often but can't afford it. Love esslouis


Hi esslouis

ooohhhhhhhhhhhh no - thats how mine started, toe spams, please do mention his to mr physio of niceness, he may..just may be able to prevent it going further as in the end it means balancng on outer foot only and them woody walks be will gone.....please mention it next time.

Reflexology, yeap i was considering this...am just waiting to see a podiatrist to see what they say, its so expensive keeping healthy.

Me ankles are real thin and bony so they look more like deformed bony lumpy ankles rather than cankles when fluid comes to stay at ankle town (I :D when i read that you wrote fluid cankles and had tea fall out) how they support me weight i dont know because me thighs are the type that can crack nuts before sci - make good jelly cushions for me cats now.

toeless stockings it is then thank you love miss cloud :hug: :hug:

#20 pinkcloud

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Posted 12 June 2011 - 08:34 PM

Hi again scd (all whom read, this kind dude is very clued up in me opinion)

I just had look, yeap sure sounds like I could have wrote that page meself thank you so much.

Tatiana, ooohhhh everytime I hear you mention this I so wish that you get fixed up soon and that a consultants keeping an eye on your progress carefully.

The only reason I believe I dont have dvt is that the ankles dont have that constant deep dull pain I heard about off people so much who had it.

Keep me posted on how you go on I thinking of you :)

#21 Tatiana

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:15 PM

Dont mean to hijack your post pinkloud my friend :thread jacked: but ive been to the docs today and she thinks that i have Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy (RSD).

Thanks scd for the info :)

#22 scd

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Posted 14 June 2011 - 03:32 PM

You are very welcome. I have a very good Pain Management doctor :)


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