22 replies to this topic

[bongorum]

I know that in modern societies there is an assumption of equality among its members, but this obviously is nothing but idealistic nonsense. How, though, are we, as disabled folk, expected to assert our right to be equal and realize our desire for the same degree of dignity and respect the able-bodied afford each other without seeming as though we are asking for preferential treatment?

Truthfully, I've never felt equal to any non-disabled person; the advantages they enjoy over someone circumstanced like myself, such as their ability to walk around and the independence they derive from it, are just too marked for me to do so. Am I suffering from an inferiorty complex or are such feelings a normal part of our condition?

Edited by bongorum, 03 August 2011 - 04:05 PM.

[Snakeye]

bongorum, on 03 August 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

I know that in modern societies there is an assumption of equality among its members, but this obviously is nothing but idealistic nonsense. How, though, are we, as disabled folk, expected to assert our right to be equal and realize our desire for the same degree of dignity and respect the able-bodied afford each other without seeming as though we are asking for preferential treatment?

Truthfully, I've never felt equal to any non-disabled person; the advantages they enjoy over someone circumstanced like myself, such as their ability to walk around and the independence they derive from it, are just too marked for me to do so. Am I suffering from an inferiorty complex or are such feelings a normal part of our condition?

Just accepting reality perhaps?

[bongorum]

I suppose that's one way of dealing with it, Snakeye, by accepting the reality of the situation instead of striving to achieve some impossible ideal and, perhaps, the most practical.

Whenever someone has to open a door for you because you can't reach the handle yourself or help you with some other equally simple task, do you ever feel low and in some way inferior to the person assisting you? I tend to feel that way. I'm not crying about it, since there really is nothing that can be done about it, nonetheless it does get me down sometimes and discourages me from going out as much as I should.

Edited by bongorum, 03 August 2011 - 05:45 PM.

[Snakeye]

If folks open a door for me I just say thanks and take it all in stride..Don't think a thing about it...I accept the way I am and my greatest desire is to be content with my porton in life for to do otherwise sets me up for endless frustration...No one likes to depend on the kindness of strangers but it is sometimes a fact of life...(our new life that is (post-injury)...Brother, I do know the sinking feeling of worthlessness you speak of...I just try not to let it haunt me....but we all deal with this shi* in whatever way suits our fiddle...what works for one doesn't for another..

[bongorum]

You're right, of course, looking at these things too closely can only lead to frustration. In any event, there's always booze to help us cope. Thanks for the sage counsel, Snakeye.

[Tetracyclone]

I agree it is clear-eyed to accept a reality in which most other people can do more physically. I also see no reason to feel bad about this. If we can successfully "play the gimp card" to get what we need, well that is an ugly way of stating a truth that others just feel good about helping us. I helped a lot of people when I was able. Now others help me, and there is balance in this.

It may be more difficult for a young adult to gain confidence if they become disabled. They never had an opportunity to prove themselves to themselves. For those of us disabled when older it is just another of life's changes.

It is worth noting that people actually need to help. I am glad that humans are like this.

[dom]

I can empathise with you dear bongorum,maybe you are doing too much critical thinking ? even ABs need help in their daily living,as a human race we are all interdependent on each other and would'nt survive long without.
Even the fictional character Robinson crusoe had the benefit of learning survival techniques from others gathered down the generations,
We are all aware of the social model of disability and its possibilities of inclusiveness and exclusiveness what i am saying starkly in your case - is it our fault 'doors' are not compatible with our abilities,if they were all fitted with electric openers then you would'nt need to 'thank' anyone? i am not suggesting this is practicable in every case just making a point.

Our society has evolved the way it has with keen regards to our bodies and functions, i am sure shorter people don't worry about not being able to reach a high shelf at a supermarket for example and ask a taller one for assistance? that is the way it is i'm afraid don't take it personally,you too have your own shining attributes as we are all aware on this forum.focus on the positive

[Snakeye]

"It may be more difficult for a young adult to gain confidence if they become disabled. They never had an opportunity to prove themselves to themselves."

*Tetracyclone-This is a good point and one I hadn't thought of. While I was 53 when injured and in my opinion already "proved my sand" in life, a newly injured young person never had a chance to..That's kinda sad really..

*Bongorum- No "sage council" on my part. More like hard-headiness and a lack of pure imagination when it comes to my survival skills...

[Snakeye]

Actually, in this sometimes uncivil world, where good manners are becomng a lost art, perhaps we are doing a public service by allowing folks to open a door for us or grab a thing off the top shelf...For example: when a young person opens a door for us and we politely say "thank you" that youth has learned a valuble lesson in good behavior..A ripple in a pond so to speak..

[StillFingers]

IMHO B...we don't, how can we if defined as not normal/AB...this starts at home, self image/worth/doubt...hiding in our safe houses/homes doesn't help, get over being crippled and get out there and have some fun, work hard, show yourself, be part of active society and you will blend in like all those walkers...until they bump into you, get run over by your chair

[nomis]

You claim it. It's only a state of mind. In reality, equality does not exist and if it did you wouldn't want it cos we'd all be clones.

I'm at least as good as the next person and that's non-negotiable if I say so. But I'm not about to claim equality with an AB athlete when it comes to running a mile. I also would like to have equality in riches with Bill Gates but it's not going to happen. Hand me a loaded gun then put Bill and me into a room to negotiate and we might come to an equal arrangement. Then he'd complain it was unequal that he didn't have a gun.

Just keep plugging away at the world to make things more accessible for those mounted on wheels. We might never reach perfect equality but we get the satisfaction of achieving little goals that make us feel more a part of society. It's a good game.

[HiltonP]

bongorum, on 03 August 2011 - 03:59 PM, said:

I know that in modern societies there is an assumption of equality among its members, but this obviously is nothing but idealistic nonsense. How, though, are we, as disabled folk, expected to assert our right to be equal and realize our desire for the same degree of dignity and respect the able-bodied afford each other without seeming as though we are asking for preferential treatment?

I support your ideal for true equality, but there is a flaw in your logic which is your assumption that able-bodied people afford respect to one another. This unfortunately is not the case and is, in my opinion, one of the greatest challenges facing our modern society. We have no self respect, nor do we respect each other. Intolerance rules the day.

That is not to say that we should throw up my hands in despair and abandon all hope, but it is not an able-bodied - disabled thing. It is a flaw in our society as a whole and if we can address that being equality for disabled people will be more easily achieved.

[bongorum]

Thank you one and all for every bit of your kind, and might I add helpful, advice. From it I’ve been able to gather that although I’m impaired in my general ability to function, what’s really important is that I am still able to exercise my capacities in order to satisfy my needs. I’m also responding too emotionally to what lies beyond my control, and all the negative implications I see are only the result of poor perspective on my part. Besides, human power, true human power, lies in the brain, and it is there that we realize our godhood, not in our brawn or good looks or ability to jump six feet into the air or race down a track as fast as a hysterical racehorse. I suppose my problem is that I allow myself on occasion to fall victim to my own one-sided arguments against disability. I look for all the unfavourable aspects of my condition, while ignoring every redemptive one. I forget that though disability has taken much from us, we are a people of vast potential who have been melted down in the furnace of immense suffering and remoulded into hardened, bewilderingly magnificent versions of our former ordinary selves, and that implanted in our souls now is a vast ability to weather storms and manage change. How many can say that of themselves? Again, my profoundest thanks to you all.

Edited by bongorum, 04 August 2011 - 11:07 PM.

[Ratticis]

True "equality" is impossible as humans. No matter what, there is always asumptions based on something about a certen group of people, blonds are dumb, people from the south are hicks, black people can sing, ect. Even in a communist society where everything earned is placed into the comunity pot and devided equally amoung the masses so there is no rich or poor, there is still the human factor that leads people to believe/act/feel different ways about different people. And really, if someone holds the door for you, what's to say they wouldn't do the same for anyone? Would you rather they see you're a gimp and go "Oh oh, better not hold the door justr in case they get offended" and let it go in your face? That's not equality either. People are an odd bunch, and "normal" is just an illusion based on our own perception.

[Snakeye]

"Normal" is just a setting on a clothes dryer..

[isobar]

True equality is akin to justice they ' re both suppose to be blind , fair and impartial. So many people are made to feel inferior by the images , by the way a segment of society eyes , views or portrays them. Far too many times , too many people are willing to accept those perceptions eyes wide shut with no true knowledge of who the beings are beyond their initial sight which can be blinding .......... for the surface view can so many times be deceptive and rooted in a false image of who some really are. True vision many times starts with conversation and may lead to insight. There are many things we are powerless to change and therefore must exist within the shackles or bindings that tie us to its making/ being ......... so goes life. In the same regard the shackling is only apart of the sum and not its full or total measure. The way to achieve equality , respect and a degree of sameness is embodied in the way a person thinks ,carries and handles themselves ......... whether in public or otherwise. The man , person and being i am isn't determined by the use or my inability to control my limbs that is embodied in my sense of self worth , my mindset , how i choose to live and the way i dictate who i am as i go through life.

[bongorum]

I find what you say about the surface view quite instructive, isobar, but I’m sure you won’t deny that the common knee-jerk reaction of the able-bodied world to someone in a chair is one of unmitigated pity. And since one does not generally pity what one regards as equal or superior to oneself there must necessarily be an assumption, however erring it may be, of inferiority. But then as you rightly imply later on, it all has to do with our psychological maturity and how we see ourselves. It’s hardly healthy to spend our lives in a subjective world of our own neurotic creation, where we believe we are constantly being put upon by everyone more capable than ourselves and feel only anxiety, insecurity, self-doubt and helplessness while wallowing in self-pity. In other words, the formless fears that haunt us are usually the monsters we breathe life into ourselves. That said, I do believe that, as has been said by dom and snakeye among others, that to maintain the self-esteem that will keep us going we need to avoid microscopically examining every little detail of our relation to the world in terms of our disability. If that means also avoiding facing certain facts of reality then so be it. We do live, after all, in a world where truth is just the most widely accepted version of a story and facts are largely a matter of convenience.

[Snakeye]

I live in a very small town and was very gun-shy about going out in public in a chair for the longest time but eventially got over it and now I don't think anyone pays any attention to my wheelchair. I doubt most people in town even remember me not being in a chair...I've gotten comfortable with it and so have they..Kinda like: If I don't mind, they don't seem to either..Don't get hung up on whether you are an ABs equal physically..Just dive in and get out amongst em...I betcha if you project the attitude it makes no difference to you if your in a chair most people you meet will feel the same..Ones atttude becomes infectious...works for me anyway..

Edited by Snakeye, 05 August 2011 - 02:24 PM.

[pinkcloud]

Backlash may come to me here yet i do not write to have a go at you, more like a dose of reality... Not many of us go around with a big box of tissues on display with onion juice in it so we can look a real victim in life crying...

so what if people look at us with pity..its normally pity for themself thinking 'oh gosh i'd hate that to happen to me'...so what? who does want this to happen to them?

What do you prefer..them to laugh at you? Come and rob you because they see you as weaker..you are weaker physically than some others....if your in a chair they can just come and tip you right over if they want too.

Before you was sci you was weaker than bodybuilder..they probably looked at you and thought 'poor bloke, he dont have big enough muscles to be a professional boxer'.
In fact your life could have been full of pity for you 'look at him, poor bloke with THAT car/partner/house/job...you know why? theres always someone bigger and better than us and they do think 'ahhh flipping heck poor ######' - i'm sure you have done it..even if its just a friend whose just lost his partner in a major car crash? whats your first impulse 'whow you are just soooo strong to deal with this i would be just so perfectly ok if this happened to me, in fact i'm never gonna wear a seatelt or drive on the right side of the road again because its soooo easy to get over it'. No.

###### equality..what about kindness and trust in strangers..like being able to leave doors unlocked like years ago?

It can be rare that people have equal rights in personal relationships, let alone with strangers. Look at the divorce rates.....

Unless you are prepared to settle for only what you think you are worth. Which i did in the past.

i bet theres loads of people in society over the age of 70 years of age, maybe even younger who feel they wish to get around like they used to too. It happens to us all, unless we die before ill health or other means gets us first.

I'm one who does ask me elders if they would like help reaching down to get something they dropped before struck with sci. Me children do offer to pick up their purses when they drop them rather than robing them. I still now in shops inform someone that their purse/open bag is left on show - easy to swipe - that maybe they could pick that up. Nothing over the top..basic kindness.

Some appreciate it..some dont. its no personal insult to me if they dont. i rather take the risk and get rejected than think '###### you struggle'.

I miss running around the playing field with bundles of energy when i was 5..i didnt grieve about it when i reached 15 and teenage lazyness struck.

Most people dont accept who they are themself...hows others meant too?

Spend ya time with them who do know you...keep out of society forever if an act of kindness bothers you so much..infact go to prison....you wont find much kindness there and you can go and fight all day long to go and prove how strong and great you are.

Me, i am weak, i do like/need help...so help ones like me out a bit....and dont look at them who offer to pass you a can of peas as if they had just smacked your mother in the face...let ya pride go a it...you are disabled, you are not able-bodied..everyone can see this...saying no your tough enough to do everything by yaself...aint gonna be changing that. - you are a man. you have sci. Thats it. To deny you are anything but is to turn ya back on ya own kind....all that proves is you are ashamed of who you are..and then you will get treated with in-equality for sure.

Edited by pinkcloud, 05 August 2011 - 03:03 PM.

[greybeard]

Nice post PC. Balances things up nicely.

[dom]

yea i was thinking again of a line from that desiderata poem -If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself.

[davjed]

Yeah Dom, words to live by: "you are a child of the universe, no less than the trees and the stars. You have a right to be here".......

[pinkcloud]

thanks greybeard

tetra ya spot on, we all in some part of life have used 'get out of jail free plus pass go and collect £200' cards.

Sometimes its a flash of us in uplift bras, that are false advertizements. To get something we want. now thats not equality - and i'm right grateful too.