36 replies to this topic

[andypandy17]

Hello there

I aren't sure if I have put this in the right place or not.

I haven't actually been in a wheelchair for long, only about 3 years and I would love a brand new chair. I quite fancy the
Quickie Helium, but I have spoken to the shop today and the chap there says that until I don't need my anti tippers then an all singing all dancing chair isn't the one for me and don't me wrong I can see him point completely.

I know it is something that can't really be taught but does anyone have any advice of how not to tip backwards when I take my anti tippers off

I kinda know its practice but any tips would be great as I don't fancy going a**e over t*t in the supermarket

thanks everyone

[Trinity]

andypandy17, on 12 August 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

Hello there

I aren't sure if I have put this in the right place or not.

I haven't actually been in a wheelchair for long, only about 3 years and I would love a brand new chair. I quite fancy the
Quickie Helium, but I have spoken to the shop today and the chap there says that until I don't need my anti tippers then an all singing all dancing chair isn't the one for me and don't me wrong I can see him point completely.

I know it is something that can't really be taught but does anyone have any advice of how not to tip backwards when I take my anti tippers off

I kinda know its practice but any tips would be great as I don't fancy going a**e over t*t in the supermarket

thanks everyone

It's rubbish that until you don't need anti-tips then you can't have a decent chair, there is no reason why you can't get anti-tips and then have them removed at a later date!

Ways to stop tipping back include making sure your CoG is not too far forward as this will make you more tippy, the other thing is just practice, know where the tip point is on the chair and work with it. Back wheel balancing is a great skill to learn and is one that comes with time and confidence.

The other thing you can try is a wheelchair skills class with Back-up http://www.backuptrust.org.uk/ , they do them at all the spinal units I think

I would be inclined to try a different shop for your wheelchair, if you haven't already try http://www.gblwheelchairs.com/ I have found them ever so helpful. If you are going to learn these skills then it's best to learn them in a chair you will be for sometime as each chair handles a little bit differently
Good Luck!

[biggdoggpa]

i don't mean to sound funny but my friend has been a para for 5 months and he doesnt even need them lol certainly in 3 years you should have achieved that balance point? lol whatever your level of your injury you have to find your center core to achieve your balance my opinion anyway lol it's kinda like riding a wheelie on a motorcyle you can pull up the wheel easy but to ride the wheelie you have to find that float point....

[megatrig]

Hi,

Where to begin!!

First NEVER, NEVER go back to the shop that gave you the advice so far!! Go on who are they????

I'm afraid it is a learning curve with anti tips!!

Take yours off now and sit with your back wheels against a sofa. Practice your backwheel balance. When it goes wrong you only fall backwards onto a soft sofa.

Then it is just time and practice and confidence when your out and about!!! We all fall out of our chairs. Sometimes in the most embarrising places!! Hey Ho.

Try a Back Up Trust day or better still go away with them. Huge learning experience. Great fun too!!

I would personally recommend ..... http://www.rgklife.com

and the http://www.rgklife.c...etails/Hi_Lite/ ... would be a good choice.

I have used RGK for ummm many years. Know the owners. Wheelchair users.

Having said that there are other good companies out there too.

Good luck. Ask questions about a chair as we have got it right (or wrong .. and learn't from our mistakes!!!)

[rue2you]

Is there anything like Back Up Trust here in the States? I really want to learn how to roll down a hill/ramp on a wheelie. I am tired of stuff falling off my lap all the time!

[Tinbasher]

megatrig, on 12 August 2011 - 12:05 PM, said:

Take yours off now and sit with your back wheels against a sofa. Practice your backwheel balance. When it goes wrong you only fall backwards onto a soft sofa.

This is exactly how I learned how to BWB once learned it increases your mobility no end.

Also once you have fallen out for the umpteenth time just stay on the sofa and watch telly!

Tin

[andypandy17]

biggdoggpa, on 12 August 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

i don't mean to sound funny but my friend has been a para for 5 months and he doesnt even need them lol certainly in 3 years you should have achieved that balance point? lol whatever your level of your injury you have to find your center core to achieve your balance my opinion anyway lol it's kinda like riding a wheelie on a motorcyle you can pull up the wheel easy but to ride the wheelie you have to find that float point....

Why in 3 years SHOULD I have learnt my balance point. In all due respect it is your friend in a wheelchair and not you. Glad for your friend, but we are not all the same and was actually offended by your remarks.

I think the guy in the shop didn't want me to spend £3,000 on a chair that I then would continually fall out of. There is no point getting a decent one to put anti-tip bars on as it would look pretty crap.

I live in Cornwall so miles away from any of these courses and I am not a spinal injury so these centres are out.

Thanks for your replies.

I am obviously a disappointment to the Apparelyzed forum users !

Because it wasn't an accident I had but a birth deformity that got worse I was just given a wheelchair and left to get on with it.

Edited by andypandy17, 12 August 2011 - 06:58 PM.

[andypandy17]

Trinity, on 12 August 2011 - 11:20 AM, said:

andypandy17, on 12 August 2011 - 11:01 AM, said:

Hello there

I aren't sure if I have put this in the right place or not.

I haven't actually been in a wheelchair for long, only about 3 years and I would love a brand new chair. I quite fancy the
Quickie Helium, but I have spoken to the shop today and the chap there says that until I don't need my anti tippers then an all singing all dancing chair isn't the one for me and don't me wrong I can see him point completely.

I know it is something that can't really be taught but does anyone have any advice of how not to tip backwards when I take my anti tippers off

I kinda know its practice but any tips would be great as I don't fancy going a**e over t*t in the supermarket

thanks everyone

It's rubbish that until you don't need anti-tips then you can't have a decent chair, there is no reason why you can't get anti-tips and then have them removed at a later date!

Ways to stop tipping back include making sure your CoG is not too far forward as this will make you more tippy, the other thing is just practice, know where the tip point is on the chair and work with it. Back wheel balancing is a great skill to learn and is one that comes with time and confidence.

The other thing you can try is a wheelchair skills class with Back-up http://www.backuptrust.org.uk/ , they do them at all the spinal units I think

I would be inclined to try a different shop for your wheelchair, if you haven't already try http://www.gblwheelchairs.com/ I have found them ever so helpful. If you are going to learn these skills then it's best to learn them in a chair you will be for sometime as each chair handles a little bit differently
Good Luck!

Thanks very much for the details, I will give Back-up a ring next week

megatrig, on 12 August 2011 - 12:05 PM, said:

Hi,

Where to begin!!

First NEVER, NEVER go back to the shop that gave you the advice so far!! Go on who are they????

I'm afraid it is a learning curve with anti tips!!

Take yours off now and sit with your back wheels against a sofa. Practice your backwheel balance. When it goes wrong you only fall backwards onto a soft sofa.

Then it is just time and practice and confidence when your out and about!!! We all fall out of our chairs. Sometimes in the most embarrising places!! Hey Ho.

Try a Back Up Trust day or better still go away with them. Huge learning experience. Great fun too!!

I would personally recommend ..... http://www.rgklife.com

and the http://www.rgklife.c...etails/Hi_Lite/ ... would be a good choice.

I have used RGK for ummm many years. Know the owners. Wheelchair users.

Having said that there are other good companies out there too.

Good luck. Ask questions about a chair as we have got it right (or wrong .. and learn't from our mistakes!!!)

Thanks but I have already found the chair that I want. Cheers Andy

[Smileyblue]

andypandy17, on 12 August 2011 - 06:55 PM, said:

I am obviously a disappointment to the Apparelyzed forum users !

Hi Andy.. You are no such thing!

We all have different circumstances, different rates of learning "skills", and different reasons for being in a chair.. You are just as much a part of this forum as ANYONE else..

I have been paralysed at a low level (T8) for going on 3 years and cant even transfer sideways unassisted WITH A TRANSFER BOARD!!! I have to transfer backwards or forwards.. There is NO WAY I would even attempt to do "wheelies"..

How I cope without anti-tip bars is by NOT DOING ANYTHING RISKY and not attempting any steep hills or slopes..

[Trinity]

andypandy17, on 12 August 2011 - 06:55 PM, said:

biggdoggpa, on 12 August 2011 - 11:54 AM, said:

i don't mean to sound funny but my friend has been a para for 5 months and he doesnt even need them lol certainly in 3 years you should have achieved that balance point? lol whatever your level of your injury you have to find your center core to achieve your balance my opinion anyway lol it's kinda like riding a wheelie on a motorcyle you can pull up the wheel easy but to ride the wheelie you have to find that float point....

Why in 3 years SHOULD I have learnt my balance point. In all due respect it is your friend in a wheelchair and not you. Glad for your friend, but we are not all the same and was actually offended by your remarks.

I think the guy in the shop didn't want me to spend £3,000 on a chair that I then would continually fall out of. There is no point getting a decent one to put anti-tip bars on as it would look pretty crap.

I live in Cornwall so miles away from any of these courses and I am not a spinal injury so these centres are out.

Thanks for your replies.

I am obviously a disappointment to the Apparelyzed forum users !

Because it wasn't an accident I had but a birth deformity that got worse I was just given a wheelchair and left to get on with it.

Please don't take offense, I have found my balance point for the main part but it does have a habit of surprising me however I have the worlds tippiest chair as it makes my life easier for the main part to put less effort into wheelies. There is EVERY point to getting a decent chair, anti tips or not, it's not all about looks, infact thats just a small part, it's more about comfort, weight maneuverability etc. and you won't continuously fall out of it, PROMISE!!!! if you have the centre of gravity (which is adjustable on most chairs) set as far back as it will go then the chances of you tipping back are pretty much zero. Many tetras don't have anti tips as it makes life harder.

Your GP can refer you to the back-up courses, I appreciate it is a long way to travel, is Salisbury your closest? It would be well worth the effort though, it's only 1 day out of your life and it it seriously more about confidence than anything else (sounds easy but my confidence has been knocked more than once so I know how difficult it can be)

I learnt to wheelie with a crash mat behind me, many people had a similar experience and to be fair a sofa could work just as well, if you give it a good go you should be able to back wheel balance after a few hours practice

Please don't feel despondent, you can get both the chair and the skills you need

[sherbs]

Bless you Trinity, some wise words indeed

Maybe i should go on a course, as havnt been using a chair for long, can you buy dvid's to look at, i think if you can i might get one.

have only been out with my sis, as too much of a coward to go out rolling on my own, i really should, its getting my confidence up thats the problem, mind you i done ok at an open air concert, on grass, gosh that was hard work tho.

thanks for the advice, i really hope it helps andy, it has helped me

[russ1]

To start with get a friend to stand behind you and pull you over to find your balance point - once you have the idea where it is then do the sofa thing - I've taught all my ab friends this way and it generally only takes an hour to learn to back wheel balance, will take a little longer without the confidence to just jump up but falling out really isn't that bad - then chuck those horrid ant tip wheels in a skip and enjoy the extra freedom you get.

[andypandy17]

Hello everyone

Thanks for your support. I didn't know whether to come back and check on replies as I was so upset by the one which said I should now be able to do without anti-tip bars. Like you say we are all different.

I am glad I came back thank you so much for your support. I have actually reaised that I wasn't using my anti-tip bars anyway. I have taken them off and know where my point of gravity is and can quite easily wheel around the living room tipped backwards so I guess it was just a confidence thing. Next step - outside eek !

I am definitely going to ring the Back-up people on Monday to see if I can get help that route. As I have mentioned previously I think because my problem wasn't an injury I was just given a chair at a clinic and it was a case of there you go, use that ! I have never had any help with it at all. I do play wheelchair tennis which I guess helps and I have buckled my wheels from throwing my chair around off curbs etc.

Thanks again for your support, it means a lot

Andy

[andypandy17]

Hello Guys

Well I have realised that I didn't need my anti-tip bars after all LOL. I must have learnt how to balance without realising.

I rang Back-up and because I don't have a spinal cord injury I am not entitled to go onto their courses which seems a bit harsh, but there you go.

Thanks for all the support & advice

Andy

[edlee]

I don't understand the flap, Andy. I still have mine on,, after 7 years,,, not because I can't wheelie ( cause I can even with them),, but because I use them for pressure relief.

I have mine set to a hieght that allows me to drop just past my balance point,,, and stay there. I do this instead of the lifting and shifting. According to the pressure mapping i had done while doing this,, i found that it worked just as well,, and if there is a wall nearby,, I can take a nap in this position quite comfortably.

I won't take mine off,,,,,,,, they can't make me!!!!!!
ed

[andypandy17]

edlee, on 16 August 2011 - 07:05 PM, said:

I don't understand the flap, Andy. I still have mine on,, after 7 years,,, not because I can't wheelie ( cause I can even with them),, but because I use them for pressure relief.

I have mine set to a hieght that allows me to drop just past my balance point,,, and stay there. I do this instead of the lifting and shifting. According to the pressure mapping i had done while doing this,, i found that it worked just as well,, and if there is a wall nearby,, I can take a nap in this position quite comfortably.

I won't take mine off,,,,,,,, they can't make me!!!!!!
ed

ha ha I like your style Ed !

one of the first posters says that we SHOULD not have them on by now - I was very upset by this and as someone else said they don't know our histories and they weren't even in the wheelchair it was their friend !!!

I spoke too soon I went over backwards earlier, luckily I was in the house, but we have wooden floors so it is pretty painful.

You stick to your guns !

The only reason I want to be able to do without them is so that my chair looks cool. This is the one I want and it just wont look right with anti tip bars on

www.quickiewheelchairs.eu/xenon/index.asp?locale=en_GB

[McTavish]

Hi Andy Pandy, I don't understand why you all want to take off your anti tippers, I would panic without mine and I am in a chair six years.Maybe it's me who is wrong but I love my anti tippers. Bye the way I used to love Andy Pandy on the tele, showing my age now. Take care

[wheeliebear75]

Andy don't feel bad. You're not the only one who is here from a non accident....that's #1! & #2 but more importantly YOU are a VALUED MEMBER here!

I've been injured longer than my kids have been alive.....yet THEY can balance like JUST SIT THERE on the back wheels no problem, I can do wheelies but doing more advanced stuff like curb hoping or BALANCING on the back wheels & FORGET IT! But my balance is kinda sucky whether I'm up on my crutches, sitting in my wheelchair, or on the floor...it just sucks. I gave up on doing TRICKS a long time ago. Children's hospital made me do an obstacle course as a part of PT & a few things I had to show/prove before they'd even let me go home.

Have you learned HOW TO do wheelies at all yet? WITH the anti-tips you won't go over. Without them I've found leaning forward when I feel myself tipping over USUALLY keeps me from flipping.

[andypandy17]

McTavish, on 16 August 2011 - 07:51 PM, said:

Hi Andy Pandy, I don't understand why you all want to take off your anti tippers, I would panic without mine and I am in a chair six years.Maybe it's me who is wrong but I love my anti tippers. Bye the way I used to love Andy Pandy on the tele, showing my age now. Take care

Hi there McTavish

I want to take them off because I want a new chair that looks naff with anti-tip bars on. I have been in a chair for only 3 years. You are not wrong I think I am finding out its a very personal choice. I was just upset by the person who told me that I should not have them on by now as their friend has only been in a wheelchair for 6 months and doesn't need them (you can read their post further up the page)
I don't remember Andypandy to be honest, its just a nickname that I have so thought I would find a picture - sorry showing my age now ha ha
Take good care
Andy

wheeliebear75, on 17 August 2011 - 03:24 AM, said:

Andy don't feel bad. You're not the only one who is here from a non accident....that's #1! & #2 but more importantly YOU are a VALUED MEMBER here!

I've been injured longer than my kids have been alive.....yet THEY can balance like JUST SIT THERE on the back wheels no problem, I can do wheelies but doing more advanced stuff like curb hoping or BALANCING on the back wheels & FORGET IT! But my balance is kinda sucky whether I'm up on my crutches, sitting in my wheelchair, or on the floor...it just sucks. I gave up on doing TRICKS a long time ago. Children's hospital made me do an obstacle course as a part of PT & a few things I had to show/prove before they'd even let me go home.

Have you learned HOW TO do wheelies at all yet? WITH the anti-tips you won't go over. Without them I've found leaning forward when I feel myself tipping over USUALLY keeps me from flipping.

Hello WB78

Thank you for replying and giving me some support, I really needed it to be honest after reading what some people had put on here.
I can do wheelies and do them all the time with my anti-tip bars on and like you have tipped once or twice with them on.
I took them off a few days ago and was doing really well until I was talking and lost concentration - splat ha ha.
I can't see me every been able to manage without them to be honest. Although when I am out and about and go down curbs I do tip my chair up and go down the curb that way, but like you say with the anti-tippers on I am unlikely to go backwards.
Oh well I am wittering on now
Just wanted to say thanks for the support
take care
Andy

[Millard]

McTavish, on 16 August 2011 - 07:51 PM, said:

Hi Andy Pandy, I don't understand why you all want to take off your anti tippers, I would panic without mine and I am in a chair six years.Maybe it's me who is wrong but I love my anti tippers. Bye the way I used to love Andy Pandy on the tele, showing my age now. Take care

Wasn't that character/show named Andy Panda? (Definitely showing my age...)

[Trinity]

Millard, on 19 August 2011 - 04:43 PM, said:

McTavish, on 16 August 2011 - 07:51 PM, said:

Hi Andy Pandy, I don't understand why you all want to take off your anti tippers, I would panic without mine and I am in a chair six years.Maybe it's me who is wrong but I love my anti tippers. Bye the way I used to love Andy Pandy on the tele, showing my age now. Take care

Wasn't that character/show named Andy Panda? (Definitely showing my age...)

Nope, Def Andy Pandy (and it was waaaay before my time )

[MTB John]

It's a bit like jumping off a bridge (into water of course) - the longer you stand there looking down the harder it is to jump.
I would order them because the new chair will have a different balance point. But then take them off as soon as your used to it.
Remember, number one rule of the outdoors is - image is everything..
We can't have you rolling round looking naff.

And if you do fall out remember - 'leg extended, tits out'
Sorry line from my wife's current movie - 10 points if you can name it..

[AussieBrad]

hey Andy,
I still have my tippers on after nearly 3 years and i can bwb till the cows come home..
knowing my luck i would take them off and tip backwards and break my neck again...haha
who cares!!!!

Brad

[baldfatdad]

How do you get into a bar/pub with anti-tips? This was the reason I never used them. An old timer told me a week after I was injured to learn to do a wheelie and get up one step or I couldn't get in most bars. That was enough incentive for me.

[LeahC]

He is so full of shit, the anti tip bars held me back and I ended up too frightened to remove them and had to go back to rehab to brush up on my wheelies.

[andypandy17]

LeahC, on 21 August 2011 - 11:06 AM, said:

He is so full of shit, the anti tip bars held me back and I ended up too frightened to remove them and had to go back to rehab to brush up on my wheelies.

who is full of shit Leah

baldfatdad, on 20 August 2011 - 05:47 PM, said:

How do you get into a bar/pub with anti-tips? This was the reason I never used them. An old timer told me a week after I was injured to learn to do a wheelie and get up one step or I couldn't get in most bars. That was enough incentive for me.

anti-tips haven't stopped me from getting in anywhere, if they do then I just turn them around so they point inwards, easy.

I also don't drink so getting into a pub isn't an issue. I actually have a fear of leaving the house in the evening. I think it stems from being bed-ridden for nearly 2 years. I am fine during the day, but come 7pm thats me in the house summer or winter

AussieBrad, on 20 August 2011 - 09:36 AM, said:

hey Andy,
I still have my tippers on after nearly 3 years and i can bwb till the cows come home..
knowing my luck i would take them off and tip backwards and break my neck again...haha
who cares!!!!

Brad

Hey Brad

Sorry but what is bwb ?

Like I have said anti-tips don't hold me back at all, but I would just like my new chair to look cool without them.

I haven't broke my neck or back so that option is still open to me, so would rather not go down that road mate.

How did you break your neck, if you don't mind me asking that is

MTB John, on 20 August 2011 - 01:48 AM, said:

It's a bit like jumping off a bridge (into water of course) - the longer you stand there looking down the harder it is to jump.
I would order them because the new chair will have a different balance point. But then take them off as soon as your used to it.
Remember, number one rule of the outdoors is - image is everything..
We can't have you rolling round looking naff.

And if you do fall out remember - 'leg extended, tits out'
Sorry line from my wife's current movie - 10 points if you can name it..

Hi John

Sorry no idea of the name of the movie, you will have to tell us

[Vanessamaee]

BWB is Back Wheel Balance, which is exactly what it sounds like, balancing on your back wheels. Just like a wheelie.

Also, I was injured April 30th of this year (a little less than 4 months, wow time has passed) and have flipped backwards the first day I was out of the hospital, with my anti tips on. This kinda freaked me out since the damn things didnt do what they were suppose to. I just took them off a couple days ago because they kept getting in the way. I havent flipped yet (Everyones going have a fall every now and then though.) It's a confidence things. Just take them off and take it easy for a day or two and slowly work your way back up to where you use to be. Be a little more concious going up hills or curbs though, try and lean more forward. Also if you feel yourself tilting backwards just lean really far forward or pull up on the wheels. It takes practice and confidence. I met a lady who still has her anti tips on and its been 26 years since her injury, mines been 3 and a half months and theyre off, its all personal preferance just like everything else.

[ZEN12many]

Hi andypandy

Welcome to the forum.

I don't use anti-tippers, never have. But my center of gravity is set to about .5 inch. So you would have to really really try to tip my chair over backward. I think I am too old to ever set my chair to be as tippy as most on this site seem to like.

[LeahC]

The guy from this "until I don't need my anti tippers then an all singing all dancing chair isn't the one for me ". You need a chair right for you whether you need anti tip bars or not.

[knightrider]

Learning to be able to Back wheel balance is an important thing i think for anyone in a chair. I was taught in rehab, same went for curbs, gravel and hills. Once mastered it makes so many obstacles easier. But obviously if you are a high injury or still haven't learned yet anti tips are a great thing. Personally if i never knew how to BWB i'd be using them too.

If you just want them off and your chair is adjustable just change the center of gravity back and will be way less tippy.
The best way of learning to BWB is to have a friend behind you, make sure your chair is set up right (COG, tippy) and just roll back slightly and push forwards so the front casters come off the ground, now once up just make very small hand/finger movements on the rims, eg, if your casters are going back down just push forward (maybe lean back slightly too) If you're tipping too far back, pull back on the rim. Takes a little practice but once you have found the sweet spot and you will, you are there. Another tip, if your head is leaning forwards it will also help the wheelie go back down, as well as pulling back on the rims, so if you're trying to hold the wheelie and your head is too far forward it will make things harder.