42 replies to this topic

[A trophy guy]

It's Part of Me

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was dating a girl last summer and we went out to eat at a restaraunt one day. It was afternoon on a weekday and the restaraunt was pretty deserted. We were greeted by the hostess who led us to the table of our choosing, where I proceeded to transfer from my wheelchair into the chair at the table. I then pulled my chair around to my side next to me, where it would stay put (or so I thought).

The waiter came and took our order and a few minutes later the hostess who had sat us at our table came over to us and asked me if she could take my chair and put it behind the bar so it was out of the way. If I needed it at anytime, I could just let her know and she would come get it for me. I smiled at her and told her that I didn't seperate myself from my chair, as it was part of my body-for all intents and purposes it was my legs. I totally assumed she would understand and that would be the end of it, however she persisted, saying that having the chair there was in violation of the fire code, so I had to get a little more firm with her. I said "ma'am under no circumstances is anyone taking this chair away from my side. I dont understand why this is even an issue, your restaraunt is EMPTY." She then said she was going to get her manager and she was off.

The manager comes out and asks "what the problem is"? I tell him that me and my date (who was not taking this well) had come to enjoy a meal and it was being ruined by the ridiculous insistence that my empty wheelchair be moved away from the table while we eat. He basically repeats what the hostess had said, about the fire code, and I tell him that if it is going to be an unresolvable problem, I will leave and I will never return. Unfortunately, that is what ended up happening. They wouldn't even let me fold the chair up and have it right next to the table. It HAD to go. So I HAD to go.

The surprising thing, however, was how the girl I was with reacted to the ordeal. She was totally embarrassed by me. She thought I was being stubborn and difficult. I couldn't seem to communicate to her how my chair truly is part of my body. Would anyone want their legs moved behind the bar while they ate?? Because that is EXACTLY what was being proposed to me when the restaraunt wanted to move my chair. And then to say "we will get it for you if you need it" is completely and utterly removing autonomy from a person. I would be sitting at that table until SOMEONE ELSE brought my chair to me. Not until I DECIDED to move, like it should be. That is unacceptable to me. And what about an emergency? I am to wait, or HOPE, for someone else to bring me my chair? Absolutely not. To this day, that is the only place I have ever encountered such issues. But what do you all think? Am I just being an asshole yet again? Should I have let them take my legs away while we ate? Or does anyone else understand, that is part of me?

[KayDub]

I'm so sorry the girl you were with acted this way. I think this is one thing AB really don't understand a lot of the time.

I had a similar experience. I went to a popular brunch place with a high school friend shortly after I got out of the hospital. We asked to have an outdoor table, since the majority of the inside tables were giant booths. We waited the 30 minutes that they said we'd have to and when our names were finally called the hostess brought us to a booth. The girl I was with is a very very soft spoken Southern belle type and I didn't want to make a scene. (I hadn't seen her in years and I was known as the dramatic girl in high school). The hostess asked if this would just "get out" of my chair to sit in the booth. I didn't know what to say or do, so I transferred with a lot of difficulty onto the booth. Then without saying anything the hostess grabbed my chair and moved it to the back hallway. I tried to remain calm but after about 30 seconds I freaked. It's such a horrible feeling, like you're helpless and can't move. I asked for my chair back, and she brought it back. We ate but I was pretty upset about the whole thing. I went back a few weeks later (this place has REALLY good food) with my fiance and mentioned it casually to the staff. They were really apologetic and made the situation right by always having me and my partner seated at a table, being respectful of everything having to do with my wheelchair and comping our meal and drinks. Luckily it was just a solitary staff member who was in the wrong unlike your situation. But on the other hand, the girl I was with, we haven't hung out since. I ended up being humiliated by the ordeal to not embarrass her. That was wrong, I'll never let that happen again.

But still. I've had so many people move me around in my chair, like complete strangers. Once my fiance stopped to talk to a friend of ours working at a party at a clubhouse. Another worker I didn't know just wheeled me inside and into an elevator... I was polite about the situation and he was apologetic but inside I was freaking out. ABs don't expect people to go grab their shoulders and force them around. My chair is really an extension of my body (even my clunky loaner chair). I don't want strangers touching it and I don't want people expecting me to just hop out of it. I had another person ask once if I could just "get out" of my chair and walk around something. It's like what part of paralysed do you NOT understand???

Thanks for sharing your story. You'll find better company/girls who are NOT embarrassed by you!! Instead the people who took your chair and acted so disgustingly should be embarrassed. If they're so concerned about the "fire code" and not the ADA or your personal rights, make sure to take your money elsewhere.

[greybeard]

They were aware that you were able to transfer to another seat so, taking into account their ignorance of gimpitude, it's perhaps not surprising they couldn't see anything wrong with what they were asking of you both. Perhaps next time it would be better to stay in your w/chairs and avoid all the fuss. You'd probably be more comfortable anyway..

[Snakeye]

Never spend another dime in the place and tell everyone you know, friends, relatives, facebook, take out an add in the local shopper or paper, picket the place with a sign ,whatever, informing folks what a**holes they are...The only thing they DO understand is money, so hit em in the pocketbook...

[A trophy guy]

greybeard, on 23 October 2011 - 11:37 PM, said:

They were aware that you were able to transfer to another seat so, taking into account their ignorance of gimpitude, it's perhaps not surprising they couldn't see anything wrong with what they were asking of you both. Perhaps next time it would be better to stay in your w/chairs and avoid all the fuss. You'd probably be more comfortable anyway..

See, I made it very clear what was wrong with what they were asking of me, however. Don't you see that?

See, this table had chairs which were designed to fit, and be a part of, the table. My wheelchair did not fit smoothly under the table and would have been a very awkward seat at this table; which I was sharing with a date for a meal. Given the fact that I am very mobile and have no issue tranferring in and out of my chair whatsoever, I decided that I wanted to sit in the chairs that were a part of the table; as it would lend itself to a more enjoyable date/dining experience for both myself and my date.

So I transferred to the restaraunt chair, folded my chair up and pulled it in right next to me. Let's say I hadn't gotten out of my chair; would I have become a "fire-code violation" myself? I don't see how it would have presented any less of a violation. Actually, with my chair folded up, it was less of an obstacle than if I was to be sitting in it.

Snakeye, on 23 October 2011 - 11:43 PM, said:

Never spend another dime in the place and tell everyone you know, friends, relatives, facebook, take out an add in the local shopper or paper, picket the place with a sign ,whatever, informing folks what a**holes they are...The only thing they DO understand is money, so hit em in the pocketbook...

Oh yeah, already done and DONE lol

[lifeisgood]

Absolutely horrid of them. This happened to me at PF CHangs..same exact thing in that it was 4-5 happy hour and was dead..I rolled up to a table I wanted and they told me I had to sit somewhere else as I was in the way as well. I didnt move..and they didnt push me. I would write a letter if I were you to the DIstrict manager of the Corporate entity that runs this place..and explain to them your situation. You may make changes to policy and you deserve a apology!

As for the girl..NEXT.

[BoyFallDown]

lifeisgood, on 24 October 2011 - 01:08 AM, said:

As for the girl..NEXT.

Absolutely, anyone who can't understand this is not worth being with. Personally I think I would have sat there until they called the police and dragged me out. And in the meantime call every local news station and then sue everyone involved. But that's just me, and I'm a stubborn asshole. I think the way you handled it was probably the most appropriate response ;)

Edited by BoyFallDown, 24 October 2011 - 01:21 AM.

[Ginny]

ABs really, really don't understand. I went to a place last winter with my walker. I sat at a table and folded the walker up and leaned it against the wall. It was totally out of the way, between the table and the wall. The waitress swooped by, grabbed the walker and parked it under a serving station. Didn't even ask me if it was okay. ABs don't get the reliance on mobility aids, whatever they happen to be. Yes, they do become an extension of your body. I think it's best to ditch the restaurant and the girl with the weird attitude. Neither of them will fit into your life.

[Edinburgh Colin]

I completely agree with your position, the chair is an extension of you. However there is also a possibility that depending on where they put your chair your date could just get it if you wanted. Granted "this" date may not have been comfortable with just going to get it regardless of the staff but that's another issue.
The restraunt does not deserve any future custom from you and you should make it your mission to destroy their reputation at every opportunity!

One explanation I like to give to people in conversation is why I have fold down handles on my chair. It's a temption for people to lean on the handle when talking to you, would they lean on an AB's shoulder so easily? It's too easy for someone to make the mistake of grabbing the handles and pushing you somewhere thinking they are helping, again would you forcefully shove an AB around? Of course it's an invasion of your personal space but it's truly amazing how many people say "you know I never even thought about it, your right". It's a constant battle to try and educate AB's but to be fair we probably never gave the issue of an extended body part/personal space consideration before it became a VERY personal issue to us either.
Not taking sides just looking at it from both sides.
Oh, and good luck finding a date who wants to be with you rather than being more concerned about themself!

EC

[A trophy guy]

Edinburgh Colin, on 24 October 2011 - 03:03 AM, said:

I completely agree with your position, the chair is an extension of you. However there is also a possibility that depending on where they put your chair your date could just get it if you wanted. Granted "this" date may not have been comfortable with just going to get it regardless of the staff but that's another issue.
The restraunt does not deserve any future custom from you and you should make it your mission to destroy their reputation at every opportunity!

One explanation I like to give to people in conversation is why I have fold down handles on my chair. It's a temption for people to lean on the handle when talking to you, would they lean on an AB's shoulder so easily? It's too easy for someone to make the mistake of grabbing the handles and pushing you somewhere thinking they are helping, again would you forcefully shove an AB around? Of course it's an invasion of your personal space but it's truly amazing how many people say "you know I never even thought about it, your right". It's a constant battle to try and educate AB's but to be fair we probably never gave the issue of an extended body part/personal space consideration before it became a VERY personal issue to us either.
Not taking sides just looking at it from both sides.
Oh, and good luck finding a date who wants to be with you rather than being more concerned about themself!

EC

Yep. Or you could do what I did and just saw those damned handles off completely!



*This was actually done in order for my chair, a fold-up, to be able to comfortably fit into the back of my car upon transfer)

[MTB John]

Sorry, but I do not see a problem here.

When I go to a restaurant I usually wait for the staff to remove a chair then transfer into another chair and swing my wheelchair into the empty space.
But if it's a booth or if my chair is obviously in the way I'll tell the staff to shove it into the pram dock.

To me the chair is a means of transport, a veichle. Not an appendage.

Having said that. EC, I would not lean on somebodies car either unless I knew them well enough for a cuddle.

[goose]

This one starting me thinking...something I don't do to offen..lol. I've been in a chair for 25 years and never once have I thought of it as part of me. I think it's because I hate it so much...not the actual chair but the idea and reason for the chair. Don't get me wrong...I do enjoy the freedom it gives me and grateful I have one.

I can't transfer to another chair at a restaurant. I'm stuck in the one I came in with which never seems to fit under the table just right. I really hate the tables with center posts. I'm saying all this in defense of AB. I know if I'd never thought of it that way after using a wheelchair for 25 years then I can understand why AB wouldn't get it either.

I've riden in boats and left my chair on the docks before. It just felt like freedom to me. Maybe being able to transfer so freely has something to do with it...not sure. I can understand your logic and I get how you feel. Next time have them remove another chair from the table and roll yours into that spot if this is possible or simply stay in your own.

As for the girl, maybe she just didn't understand either or didn't like the drama. "Wheelcairs" can take alittle time to adjust too....NOT the people. I'm all for giving everybody a second chance but that's your decision.

[qbounce]

I'm with MTB on this one. You obviously have the capacity to maneuver yourself in and out of certain situations, seating wise, with ease. So, why you chose to not let a simple act of contention go without argument is kinda beyond me. On a date, getting rather close to a nice girl would have been first and foremost on my mind. Not getting into a beef over where my wc is set while I'm not even in it.

You weren't in the wheelchair, so trying to argue the fact that it's a part of you seems rather moot to me.

Don't sweat the small stuff, man. And, it's usually small stuff.

Edited by qbounce, 24 October 2011 - 06:13 AM.

[A trophy guy]

qbounce, on 24 October 2011 - 06:08 AM, said:

I'm with MTB on this one. You obviously have the capacity to maneuver yourself in and out of certain situations, seating wise, with ease. So, why you chose to not let a simple act of contention go without argument is kinda beyond me. On a date, getting rather close to a nice girl would have been first and foremost on my mind. Not getting into a beef over where my wc is set while I'm not even in it.

You weren't in the wheelchair, so trying to argue the fact that it's a part of you seems rather moot to me.

So if a fire had broken out and all hell and pandemonium had broken loose, are you telling me I must depend on, no hope for, someone else to actually stop what they are doing and go back and get my wheelchair and bring it back to me?? Well that's a chance I don't even want to take. No. My legs are staying with me at all times.

[greybeard]

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

qbounce, on 24 October 2011 - 06:08 AM, said:

I'm with MTB on this one. You obviously have the capacity to maneuver yourself in and out of certain situations, seating wise, with ease. So, why you chose to not let a simple act of contention go without argument is kinda beyond me. On a date, getting rather close to a nice girl would have been first and foremost on my mind. Not getting into a beef over where my wc is set while I'm not even in it.

You weren't in the wheelchair, so trying to argue the fact that it's a part of you seems rather moot to me.

So if a fire had broken out and all hell and pandemonium had broken loose, are you telling me I must depend on, no hope for, someone else to actually stop what they are doing and go back and get my wheelchair and bring it back to me?? Well that's a chance I don't even want to take. No. My legs are staying with me at all times.

If you "legs" are so important to you because you fear a fire will break out in every place you go, stay in your chair. Simple.

It sounds like you were deliberately making a big issue out of this in order to impress the lady. Clearly you failed.

Your claim that your chair is part of you also fails. You can not reasonably expect any able bodied person to believe that you are totally dependent on your wheelchair if they witness you choosing to sit on something else, especially if you do so with apparent ease.

This incident occurred a year ago, yet you still let your resentment fester. It was not the end of the world. Your remedy was to take your custom elsewhere, which you say you have done. End of story. Let it go.

[StillFingers]

Still angry...if a fire broke out you'd be last out anyway...its just the way, no quarter, if you are different...can't run with the ignorant!

[richo]

A trophy guy, on 23 October 2011 - 08:21 PM, said:

It's Part of Me

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was dating a girl last summer and we went out to eat at a restaraunt one day. It was afternoon on a weekday and the restaraunt was pretty deserted. We were greeted by the hostess who led us to the table of our choosing, where I proceeded to transfer from my wheelchair into the chair at the table. I then pulled my chair around to my side next to me, where it would stay put (or so I thought).

The waiter came and took our order and a few minutes later the hostess who had sat us at our table came over to us and asked me if she could take my chair and put it behind the bar so it was out of the way. If I needed it at anytime, I could just let her know and she would come get it for me. I smiled at her and told her that I didn't seperate myself from my chair, as it was part of my body-for all intents and purposes it was my legs. I totally assumed she would understand and that would be the end of it, however she persisted, saying that having the chair there was in violation of the fire code, so I had to get a little more firm with her. I said "ma'am under no circumstances is anyone taking this chair away from my side. I dont understand why this is even an issue, your restaraunt is EMPTY." She then said she was going to get her manager and she was off.

The manager comes out and asks "what the problem is"? I tell him that me and my date (who was not taking this well) had come to enjoy a meal and it was being ruined by the ridiculous insistence that my empty wheelchair be moved away from the table while we eat. He basically repeats what the hostess had said, about the fire code, and I tell him that if it is going to be an unresolvable problem, I will leave and I will never return. Unfortunately, that is what ended up happening. They wouldn't even let me fold the chair up and have it right next to the table. It HAD to go. So I HAD to go.

The surprising thing, however, was how the girl I was with reacted to the ordeal. She was totally embarrassed by me. She thought I was being stubborn and difficult. I couldn't seem to communicate to her how my chair truly is part of my body. Would anyone want their legs moved behind the bar while they ate?? Because that is EXACTLY what was being proposed to me when the restaraunt wanted to move my chair. And then to say "we will get it for you if you need it" is completely and utterly removing autonomy from a person. I would be sitting at that table until SOMEONE ELSE brought my chair to me. Not until I DECIDED to move, like it should be. That is unacceptable to me. And what about an emergency? I am to wait, or HOPE, for someone else to bring me my chair? Absolutely not. To this day, that is the only place I have ever encountered such issues. But what do you all think? Am I just being an asshole yet again? Should I have let them take my legs away while we ate? Or does anyone else understand, that is part of me?

i fully agree with you,but why not just stay in the chair[wheel]

StillFingers, on 24 October 2011 - 08:32 AM, said:

Still angry...if a fire broke out you'd be last out anyway...its just the way, no quarter, if you are different...can't run with the ignorant!

nar id be out with my faimly,weight best part of quarter ton me and my chir

greybeard, on 24 October 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

qbounce, on 24 October 2011 - 06:08 AM, said:

I'm with MTB on this one. You obviously have the capacity to maneuver yourself in and out of certain situations, seating wise, with ease. So, why you chose to not let a simple act of contention go without argument is kinda beyond me. On a date, getting rather close to a nice girl would have been first and foremost on my mind. Not getting into a beef over where my wc is set while I'm not even in it.

You weren't in the wheelchair, so trying to argue the fact that it's a part of you seems rather moot to me.

So if a fire had broken out and all hell and pandemonium had broken loose, are you telling me I must depend on, no hope for, someone else to actually stop what they are doing and go back and get my wheelchair and bring it back to me?? Well that's a chance I don't even want to take. No. My legs are staying with me at all times.

If you "legs" are so important to you because you fear a fire will break out in every place you go, stay in your chair. Simple.

It sounds like you were deliberately making a big issue out of this in order to impress the lady. Clearly you failed.

Your claim that your chair is part of you also fails. You can not reasonably expect any able bodied person to believe that you are totally dependent on your wheelchair if they witness you choosing to sit on something else, especially if you do so with apparent ease.

This incident occurred a year ago, yet you still let your resentment fester. It was not the end of the world. Your remedy was to take your custom elsewhere, which you say you have done. End of story. Let it go.

moot........now thats a funny word

[richo]

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 04:14 AM, said:

Edinburgh Colin, on 24 October 2011 - 03:03 AM, said:

I completely agree with your position, the chair is an extension of you. However there is also a possibility that depending on where they put your chair your date could just get it if you wanted. Granted "this" date may not have been comfortable with just going to get it regardless of the staff but that's another issue.
The restraunt does not deserve any future custom from you and you should make it your mission to destroy their reputation at every opportunity!

One explanation I like to give to people in conversation is why I have fold down handles on my chair. It's a temption for people to lean on the handle when talking to you, would they lean on an AB's shoulder so easily? It's too easy for someone to make the mistake of grabbing the handles and pushing you somewhere thinking they are helping, again would you forcefully shove an AB around? Of course it's an invasion of your personal space but it's truly amazing how many people say "you know I never even thought about it, your right". It's a constant battle to try and educate AB's but to be fair we probably never gave the issue of an extended body part/personal space consideration before it became a VERY personal issue to us either.
Not taking sides just looking at it from both sides.
Oh, and good luck finding a date who wants to be with you rather than being more concerned about themself!

EC

Yep. Or you could do what I did and just saw those damned handles off completely!



*This was actually done in order for my chair, a fold-up, to be able to comfortably fit into the back of my car upon transfer)

thats prety cool...just dont damage one of ya arms

[Courtney]

I agree with Trophy. We were in a resturant once and the staff asked us to walk all the way around to get to our table, when our table was two tables away (all the way around meant navigating through a crowd of 30+ people and walking halfway throught the restaurant instead of 10 feet away). I looked at our hostess and said "but the people we are with are just right there" The server said, "I don't want HIM (looking at my quadriplegic husband--who is in a small manual chair) to knock over this tray of food" (mind you there was enough room for two wheelchairs to roll by said tray) I looked at her, look at my husband, and we took the short route--not through the crowd and around half the restaurant. I have to constantly remind myself the AB's are ignorant...not stupid...but ignorant.

I agree with you because you explained to the staff, that your wheelchair was an extension of you and required for your mobility
and they completely disreguarded that fact.

[A trophy guy]

greybeard, on 24 October 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

qbounce, on 24 October 2011 - 06:08 AM, said:

I'm with MTB on this one. You obviously have the capacity to maneuver yourself in and out of certain situations, seating wise, with ease. So, why you chose to not let a simple act of contention go without argument is kinda beyond me. On a date, getting rather close to a nice girl would have been first and foremost on my mind. Not getting into a beef over where my wc is set while I'm not even in it.

You weren't in the wheelchair, so trying to argue the fact that it's a part of you seems rather moot to me.

So if a fire had broken out and all hell and pandemonium had broken loose, are you telling me I must depend on, no hope for, someone else to actually stop what they are doing and go back and get my wheelchair and bring it back to me?? Well that's a chance I don't even want to take. No. My legs are staying with me at all times.

If you "legs" are so important to you because you fear a fire will break out in every place you go, stay in your chair. Simple.

It sounds like you were deliberately making a big issue out of this in order to impress the lady. Clearly you failed.

Your claim that your chair is part of you also fails. You can not reasonably expect any able bodied person to believe that you are totally dependent on your wheelchair if they witness you choosing to sit on something else, especially if you do so with apparent ease.

This incident occurred a year ago, yet you still let your resentment fester. It was not the end of the world. Your remedy was to take your custom elsewhere, which you say you have done. End of story. Let it go.

I am sharing this story not because I have built up resentment, but rather because I think it is a good example of the lack of understanding many AB's have (and even some wheelchair users, it seems) when it comes to the relation a wheelchair user has to their wheelchair.

Now their is a significant difference between me saying my chair is a part of me and me saying I am "totally dependent on my chair". That is you inserting your own language into my post. If I don't WANT to stay in my chair, I don't HAVE to stay in my chair. The table wasn't designed to fit a wheelchair and if I stayed in my chair, it would have impacted the quality of my (and my date's) experience. I shouldn't be punished for making that decision.

[lifeisgood]

You were absolutly right to refuse to allow someone to take your chair away..and I actually appreciate your standing this ground as it will help the next person who is in this situation. For example, we now have the ability and right to have our foldable manual chairs stowed in the airplane's cabin closet, rather than be tagged andput away in luggage and in many cases destroyed (or lost in one case!) It is not luggage. Many will not assert this right and I have read them say they didn't want to cause a scene or appear difficult when confronted with crew who was not aware of this law. What you did was not being difficult, it was being assertive..and asserting your right to have your mobility equipment with you. Next time do go the step further and write a quick note to the District Manager. Perhaps policy will be reviewed and changed.

They asked if they could remove it..you said no. end of story. If there was a fire..then yes, they can remove it..and you at the same time!

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

greybeard, on 24 October 2011 - 08:13 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:14 AM, said:

qbounce, on 24 October 2011 - 06:08 AM, said:

I'm with MTB on this one. You obviously have the capacity to maneuver yourself in and out of certain situations, seating wise, with ease. So, why you chose to not let a simple act of contention go without argument is kinda beyond me. On a date, getting rather close to a nice girl would have been first and foremost on my mind. Not getting into a beef over where my wc is set while I'm not even in it.

You weren't in the wheelchair, so trying to argue the fact that it's a part of you seems rather moot to me.

So if a fire had broken out and all hell and pandemonium had broken loose, are you telling me I must depend on, no hope for, someone else to actually stop what they are doing and go back and get my wheelchair and bring it back to me?? Well that's a chance I don't even want to take. No. My legs are staying with me at all times.

If you "legs" are so important to you because you fear a fire will break out in every place you go, stay in your chair. Simple.

It sounds like you were deliberately making a big issue out of this in order to impress the lady. Clearly you failed.

Your claim that your chair is part of you also fails. You can not reasonably expect any able bodied person to believe that you are totally dependent on your wheelchair if they witness you choosing to sit on something else, especially if you do so with apparent ease.

This incident occurred a year ago, yet you still let your resentment fester. It was not the end of the world. Your remedy was to take your custom elsewhere, which you say you have done. End of story. Let it go.

I am sharing this story not because I have built up resentment, but rather because I think it is a good example of the lack of understanding many AB's have (and even some wheelchair users, it seems) when it comes to the relation a wheelchair user has to their wheelchair.

Now their is a significant difference between me saying my chair is a part of me and me saying I am "totally dependent on my chair". That is you inserting your own language into my post. If I don't WANT to stay in my chair, I don't HAVE to stay in my chair. The table wasn't designed to fit a wheelchair and if I stayed in my chair, it would have impacted the quality of my (and my date's) experience. I shouldn't be punished for making that decision.

[Vanessamaee]

This Sunday marks my 6 months in a chair (celebrate?? lol) and I kind of disagree/agree with this. I totally understand what you mean by saying the chair is a part of you and seeing why you wouldnt want to be without out. I HATE not having my chair around me, its how I get around, end of story, If I have to go piss, I want to piss on my own will, not on someone elses time. BUT I have had to have my chair taken away at a restaurant and I didnt find it being that big of a deal. for 1 I made sure I cathed before I went there lol but also I knew where my chair was, I was with friends that would go get my chair if there was any problem and I sure as hell hope atleast the girl you were with would consider grabbing your chair if all hell broke lose. But what is honestly the chances of that happening?? Thats like my dad asking me in an elevator if I should lock my brakes just in case the elevator brakes and starting falling... I think Id have a bigger problem then my brakes being locked. Also, are you able to fly on an airplane if you dont like being seperated?? Because they throw your wheelchair in with all the luggage which CAN end up with a broken, lost, and lonely chair lol. Then again, kind of like the elevator, if the plane crashes, youve got bigger problems. So I can see why you were upset but you also need to look at it though their eyes. The chair WOULD be an obstacle for any kind of evacuation and also just for people to pass through the aisles.

As far as the girl goes... theres other out there

[qbounce]

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Now their is a significant difference between me saying my chair is a part of me and me saying I am "totally dependent on my chair". That is you inserting your own language into my post. If I don't WANT to stay in my chair, I don't HAVE to stay in my chair. The table wasn't designed to fit a wheelchair and if I stayed in my chair, it would have impacted the quality of my (and my date's) experience. I shouldn't be punished for making that decision.

Sometimes I look at a situation from a devils advocate perspective. That view entails the understanding of everyone involved in the room, and not just you or me at the time of the incident. Reading your story made it clear to me that the only person with a problem with that day was you. And you diffused the situation by leaving the restaurant . . . . rightly so.

I know when to pick and choose my battles, and this one I probably would've let go, only to appease my date and keep things on an even keel.

Why do you feel the need to fight every little thing with AB's (also noticed you're disabled toilet post), when a very simple stance could have been completely avoided by allowing them to move your chair out of the isle? And what did you have to show for it . . . . how did your date end? Sometimes feeling like you've made your point accomplishes nothing when no one else can relate to your point of view, including me. I'm glad others here can relate to your stance on the matter and rally behind you. But I'm a lover not a fighter. I can't wrap my head around you're call to arms over keeping a w/c by your side because of a hypothetical fire, vs. their actual fire hazard the w/c caused while in the isle.

I for one can only offer these words of advice; we're all in it for the long haul, so you can either pick and choose your battles more loosely, or in for an uphill battle that'll never end. There are way to many other things we have to fight for in this brave new world, such as health care benefits, UTI's, and other health related issues.

So, you continue to find fault in others rules whether they apply to us or not. I find your fight in this and the bathroom issue daunting and pointless at best. Teaching others how to be tolerant of the disabled is one thing, but coming across as a crip with a chip o his shoulder is another entirely. I hope you don't come across as the latter.

Edited by qbounce, 24 October 2011 - 07:40 PM.

[KayDub]

Wow I'm surprised with the amount of posts/debate going on here!

I dunno, at T 10 with strong arms, I can transfer. I just felt very uncomfortable without it, almost to the point of having a panic attack. I wasn't stable and kind of rocked back and forth and had to use my arms to stabilise myself, because it was one of those hard plastic booths with a scoop that I don't think anyone is comfortable in ha ha. It took me awhile to transfer too and it was really awkward and uncomfortable. Just because someone CAN transfer doesn't mean they should have to (I should have known that at the time... stupid me) It's like when I was at the London airport and they put me in a chair at the airport for a 10 hour layover that was a transfer chair with metal tubing, no foot rests and no way for my to wheel myself. I feel very trapped and have no agency. Some people are totally okay with not being in the chair, some people aren't. It's a personal thing and I don't think either feeling is wrong, it's totally up to the person's feelings.

If this situation happened again to me, I'd politely ask if another table was available. I wouldn't make a big deal or anything. I transferred out because I was a newbie and hadn't been out much at all since I got out of hospital so I thought I should do what other people asked. It was silly of me to transfer when it was something that made me uncomfortable.

When I say my chair is a part of me, I feel like it is -when I'm in it-. I feel like when people touch my chair they're touching me or moving me and it makes me really uncomfortable.

I think it's okay to feel this way. If you have a problem with it ideally you should just tell the host(ess) if you can be seated at a table you can be at in your chair in a polite way and be willing to wait a bit longer if necessary. I just like to avoid conflict in person, I have to work on being more assertive in a good way.

Edited by KayDub, 24 October 2011 - 07:49 PM.

[A trophy guy]

qbounce, on 24 October 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Now their is a significant difference between me saying my chair is a part of me and me saying I am "totally dependent on my chair". That is you inserting your own language into my post. If I don't WANT to stay in my chair, I don't HAVE to stay in my chair. The table wasn't designed to fit a wheelchair and if I stayed in my chair, it would have impacted the quality of my (and my date's) experience. I shouldn't be punished for making that decision.

Sometimes I look at a situation from a devils advocate perspective. That view entails the understanding of everyone involved in the room, and not just you or me at the time of the incident. Reading your story made it clear to me that the only person with a problem with that day was you. And you diffused the situation by leaving the restaurant . . . . rightly so.

I know when to pick and choose my battles, and this one I probably would've let go, only to appease my date and keep things on an even keel.

Why do you feel the need to fight every little thing with AB's (also noticed you're disabled toilet post), when a very simple stance could have been completely avoided by allowing them to move your chair out of the isle? And what did you have to show for it . . . . how did your date end? Sometimes feeling like you've made your point accomplishes nothing when no one else can relate to your point of view, including me. I'm glad others here can relate to your stance on the matter and rally behind you. But I'm a lover not a fighter. I can't wrap my head around you're call to arms over keeping a w/c by your side because of a hypothetical fire, vs. their actual fire hazard the w/c caused while in the isle.

I for one can only offer these words of advice; we're all in it for the long haul, so you can either pick and choose your battles more loosely, or in for an uphill battle that'll never end. There are way to many other things we have to fight for in this brave new world, such as health care benefits, UTI's, and other health related issues.

So, you continue to find fault in others rules whether they apply to us or not. I find your fight in this and the bathroom issue daunting and pointless at best. Teaching others how to be tolerant of the disabled is one thing, but coming across as a crip with a chip o his shoulder is another entirely. I hope you don't come across as the latter.

How can I make this simple? It wasn't about hypothetical fire, or hypothetical anything. I was using the fire example as a way to show the reasoning behind my stance. But the bottom line is, I don't want my legs taken from me.

How is that not understandable? It is the exact same parallel to an AB person not having the ability to use their legs when and where they want to.

[lifeisgood]

WOW, "chip on his shoulder" that is quite the jump to a broad assertion on this op's attitude. Fire hazard is just one example..theft is another.(our chairs cost upwards of $5000).or just plain inconvenience. Dead restuarant.no real "fire hazard"--that was their reason for wanting to remove it, not his) ..chair would have stayed in aisle if he didnt transfer as he would have been IN IT>, and ignorance as to the meaning and value of someones chair..as an extension of themselves--whether all agree with this or not..that is HIS feeling..and I happen to share it.

Why do we have to make such an assertion that his attitude is overall poor or negative just because we don't see eye to eye on this one issue? Isn't it at least a good discussion for us to share? I have a great attitude..and NO one is taking my chair away from my sight in a public place. )

qbounce, on 24 October 2011 - 07:37 PM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Now their is a significant difference between me saying my chair is a part of me and me saying I am "totally dependent on my chair". That is you inserting your own language into my post. If I don't WANT to stay in my chair, I don't HAVE to stay in my chair. The table wasn't designed to fit a wheelchair and if I stayed in my chair, it would have impacted the quality of my (and my date's) experience. I shouldn't be punished for making that decision.

So, you continue to find fault in others rules whether they apply to us or not. I find your fight in this and the bathroom issue daunting and pointless at best. Teaching others how to be tolerant of the disabled is one thing, but coming across as a crip with a chip o his shoulder is another entirely. I hope you don't come across as the latter.

Edited by lifeisgood, 24 October 2011 - 08:03 PM.

[qbounce]

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 07:52 PM, said:

How can I make this simple? It wasn't about hypothetical fire, or hypothetical anything. I was using the fire example as a way to show the reasoning behind my stance. But the bottom line is, I don't want my legs taken from me.

How is that not understandable? It is the exact same parallel to an AB person not having the ability to use their legs when and where they want to.

I understand your point, I just don't happen to agree with it. The chair is certainly an extension of me when I'm in it. So I do get upset when someone handles the w/c while I'm sitting in it. But, as the waitress and manager explained to you their reasons for moving your chair out of the way, you did what you felt was necessary. I would have handled things much differently, that's all.

lifeisgood said:

WOW, "chip on his shoulder" that is quite the jump to a broad assertion on this op's attitude. Fire hazard is just one example..theft is another.(our chairs cost upwards of $5000).or just plain inconvenience. Dead restuarant.no real "fire hazard"--that was their reason for wanting to remove it, not his) ..chair would have stayed in aisle if he didnt transfer as he would have been IN IT>, and ignorance as to the meaning and value of someones chair..as an extension of themselves--whether all agree with this or not..that is HIS feeling..and I happen to share it.

Why do we have to make such an assertion that his attitude is overall poor or negative just because we don't see eye to eye on this one issue? Isn't it at least a good discussion for us to share? I have a great attitude..and NO one is taking my chair away from my sight in a public place. )

Lifeisgood, I said I hope he isn't perceived by others as having a chip on his shoulder . . . . you misread my post. And, I said this based on several of his posts relating to his crusade to show AB's what it means to be disabled. I also used the disabled Toilet post as another example. And now, I just finished reading about a disabled parking dispute the OP got caught up with. While I agree with Trophy Guy on the parking issue, I question his methods in this matter as well.

Yes, while one rant shouldn't be perceived by others as having a bad attitude, but three might.

Edited by qbounce, 24 October 2011 - 10:26 PM.

[edlee]

Sorry TG,, gotta go with Q on this one. You didn't want to stay in your chair,, because it would take away from the dining experience,,,,,, how'ed that work out for ya? Yeah,, my chair is part of me when I'm in it,,, and I prefer to have it handy so I can decide when to move,,,, but a little perspective goes a long way. Their, the resturant,, attitude didn't ruin your night,,, your's did. And if you don't understand that,,,, or at least see that possibility,,, then I'm afraid you are doing yourself a disservice.

We live in a world that is chock full of ABs,, and we always will. Except what you can,, tolerate what you must,, but most of all,,,, lighten up. It's a long road,, enjoy the flowers,, ignore the fertilizer.
ed

[A trophy guy]

edlee, on 25 October 2011 - 09:20 PM, said:

Sorry TG,, gotta go with Q on this one. You didn't want to stay in your chair,, because it would take away from the dining experience,,,,,, how'ed that work out for ya? Yeah,, my chair is part of me when I'm in it,,, and I prefer to have it handy so I can decide when to move,,,, but a little perspective goes a long way. Their, the resturant,, attitude didn't ruin your night,,, your's did. And if you don't understand that,,,, or at least see that possibility,,, then I'm afraid you are doing yourself a disservice.

We live in a world that is chock full of ABs,, and we always will. Except what you can,, tolerate what you must,, but most of all,,,, lighten up. It's a long road,, enjoy the flowers,, ignore the fertilizer.
ed

SMH

[wheeliebear75]

IF the tables were set up to have 4 chairs which most are I don't see what the difference is. I just have the staff remove THEIR chair & either stay in my wheelchair whenever possible (I/we ALWAYS ask for a table), OR if it isn't because of the table height or the table's legs then I just make sure the wheelchair doesn't leave my side. I kinda panic if I can't get to my chair either....even at home.

I'm curious of 2 things trophy: Was the restaurant a little "mom & pop place" or a larger "chain"? And the girl....was she someone you'd JUST hooked up with or someone you'd been getting to know a bit better? Reason FOR ASKING is getting embarrassed on the 1st date is one thing but if you guys have already done a bit more of that chatting and getting to know one another than it makes the reaction go from embarrassment to embarr-ASS-ment.