20 replies to this topic

[A trophy guy]

It doesn't seem like the ideal forum for this to be placed, but nowhere else did either so I didn't know where else to go with this...

I recently posted a link to a news story about me getting kicked out of my gym which I had been a member of for more than ten years. Well, just about a month prior to the parking-lot fiasco which led to my membership-revokation I had an essential exercise in my workout regimen suddenly and arbitrarily banned by the very same manager who would ultimately kick me out.

This exercise is the wheelchair pullup. I have been doing these for YEARS, and had been doing them for years at the very gym which banned them. I started doing them because the gym didn't provide any accessible lat-pulldown equipment (which is the comparable machine-version of the pullup exercise). I perfected this exercise in the years I had been doing them.

The manager who banned them was a relatively new manager. She received word from some member (who didn't like the idea of someone in a wheelchair hanging off the ground) who told her of my activities. She then informed me of her decision (without even witnessing the exercise for herself), saying that the exercise was a "reckless and dangerous" activity which presented too great a risk of injury.

I immediately countered with the question of how did it present any more of a risk than any other weight lifting exercise performed in this gym (like bench pressing, deadlifting, squating, etc.). She had no reply.

Anyway, at my new gym I had a friend videotape a set of the wheelchair pullups. Now these are slightly differnt than what one would have seen at the gym that banned them; but it is only because they were actually SAFER at the place that banned them. I was lower to the ground and able to simply drop myself to the ground when done (rather than have the guys who lifted me to the bar lift me back down as well). But this video is fairly similar to what I was doing when I had it banned.

What is the general opinion here? (sorry if it seems like i'm dumping all this stuff all at once, I just am excited to have found a place like this)

http://sharing.thefl...video/109449241

[quadinva]

Different AND dangerous (props for doing them nonetheless). If your hands slip, you could easily crack your head open. How about sitting on the floor, setting the bar at a reasonable height on a squat rack, putting your legs on a bench and do some pull ups? The chair to floor transfer would be a nice little warm up too.

[A trophy guy]

quadinva, on 24 October 2011 - 01:59 AM, said:

Different AND dangerous (props for doing them nonetheless). If your hands slip, you could easily crack your head open. How about sitting on the floor, setting the bar at a reasonable height on a squat rack, putting your legs on a bench and do some pull ups? The chair to floor transfer would be a nice little warm up too.

First of all, did you not notice the wrist-straps I wrapped around each side of the bar I was gripping? In addition to providing greater grip strength, this prevents such an accident from occuring. The spotters that lift me to the bar do not disengage from me until I am wrapped and ready. In the more than 7 years I have been performing this exercise, I have never had such an accident.

Now, to your suggestion about pullup alternatives. What you describe here isn't too far off from what I began doing when I first began lifting weights and training as a paraplegic. I set up a Smith machine bar to a reasonable height, rolled up to it and grabbed hold of the bar with a wide grip and performed sets of body-weight pullups. I had a spotter holding my legs back folded behind my knees as I did the set.

However, this form of training was only effective for me as a beginner. My form of paralysis, ischemic, has left my lower body very, very atrophied and skinny. That, combined with the fact that I am a fairly small guy to begin with, makes for a fairly light load to pull up. So I quickly grew stronger and needed something more.

So the added weight of the wheelchair did the trick. And actually, now that I've been doing them so long in the chair, in order to make them challenging enough to get my reps down to 10-12, I must add additional weight to the wheelchair. I do this by putting dumbbells or small plate weights in my wheelchair bag on back.

[goose]

This may not be dangerous to you but believe me IT IS dangerous for all the women in the room. HOT! Those are some serious guns that you're packing! You needed a warning before viewing!!!

[biggdoggpa]

WOW lol I have my friend do these out of a smith machine but he doesnt have his chair strapped to him and i hold his legs for him! wow man thats great that you have achieved such strength!!! keep it up bro!!! I have a gym in PENNSYLVANIA your welcome to come and do those anytime bro lol!! what state are you from?

Oh and I have him do lat pull down out of the cable cross over machine it's not the same as the actual machine and you can't go as heavy but it works well!!! front and back pull downs also dips out of a power rack with plates on his lap!! you have to get a little creative lol you know!! keep it up bro!!

[A trophy guy]

For anyone who thinks this is especially dangerous and presents some extra special risk of injury, let me say this. Weight lifting is an inherently risky activity. It all carries with it some element of risk.

Bench pressing, for example, can result in death in a worst-case scenario accident. If the lifter has the bar fall on his/her neck and can't lift it off, death can result.

Do you see bench pressing without a spotter getting banned in gyms? Nope. What about deadlifts, or military presses or weighted pullups, etc.? All of these present similar, even greater, risks of injury as my wheelchair pullup. And all of these are allowed to be performed at the very gym which decided that my exercise was not be to allowed. It stunk of discrimination.

[quadinva]

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:

In the more than 7 years I have been performing this exercise, I have never had such an accident.

In more than 25 years of jumping/diving/playing in pools, I had never broken my neck either...just saying, it only takes one time.

[A trophy guy]

quadinva, on 24 October 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:

In the more than 7 years I have been performing this exercise, I have never had such an accident.

In more than 25 years of jumping/diving/playing in pools, I had never broken my neck either...just saying, it only takes one time.

So do you think people should be banned from playing in pools?

Risk can never be eliminated altogether.

I've never had an accident bench pressing either, but I COULD have an accident. Should bench pressing be banned? What about ANY OTHER activity that carries some level of risk?

Edited by A trophy guy, 25 October 2011 - 12:33 AM.

[Tetracyclone]

A Trophy Guy,

First, I love your name. I second Goose's comment- gulp, but since you filmed from the rear I tell myself you are seriously ugly, so I should not drool on myself.

I too would be really hurt by the actions of that manager at the first gym. Unbelievably cruel.

Finally, try to counter that pull to the right that you get, where your right side is stronger. Over time this sort of thing distorts the lower spine and will give you problems - spines are healthiest when they are straight. So instead of adding more weight, emphasize a symmetrical pull up until that left side equals up.

I see this error a lot in weightlifters and, as a former massage therapist, I know it hurts people down the line.

My initial introduction to my present gym (in Taiwan) was dicey. The sales guy tried to put restrictions on when I could be there and wanted to always be there to help me load my chair when I leave. Taiwanese do this all the time- I can push myself all over they gym, practice standing and taking steps, and they still act like they should push me into the elevator. I attribute this to a strong helping ethic (I am also old and wrinkled up) that leaves people sure they will be criticized if they do NOT help me. Anyway, they did get used to me being the first of my kind in the place, and some members are friendly and encouraging. Some seem uncomfortable with my being there, but they just look away. i am pretty sure that, because of my status as an elder, if anyone gives me sh*t then a serious tongue-lashing by me will send them back into the quiet zone.

But that manager- unbelievably cruel. See if you can embarrass her in public for it. Glad you have a new place and you are right, weight-lifting can be dangerous.

[A trophy guy]

Tetracyclone, on 25 October 2011 - 12:43 AM, said:

A Trophy Guy,

First, I love your name. I second Goose's comment- gulp, but since you filmed from the rear I tell myself you are seriously ugly, so I should not drool on myself.

I too would be really hurt by the actions of that manager at the first gym. Unbelievably cruel.

Finally, try to counter that pull to the right that you get, where your right side is stronger. Over time this sort of thing distorts the lower spine and will give you problems - spines are healthiest when they are straight. So instead of adding more weight, emphasize a symmetrical pull up until that left side equals up.

I see this error a lot in weightlifters and, as a former massage therapist, I know it hurts people down the line.

My initial introduction to my present gym (in Taiwan) was dicey. The sales guy tried to put restrictions on when I could be there and wanted to always be there to help me load my chair when I leave. Taiwanese do this all the time- I can push myself all over they gym, practice standing and taking steps, and they still act like they should push me into the elevator. I attribute this to a strong helping ethic (I am also old and wrinkled up) that leaves people sure they will be criticized if they do NOT help me. Anyway, they did get used to me being the first of my kind in the place, and some members are friendly and encouraging. Some seem uncomfortable with my being there, but they just look away. i am pretty sure that, because of my status as an elder, if anyone gives me sh*t then a serious tongue-lashing by me will send them back into the quiet zone.

But that manager- unbelievably cruel. See if you can embarrass her in public for it. Glad you have a new place and you are right, weight-lifting can be dangerous.

Aaaah, good eye in noticing my rightward sway. There are a couple of factors at play in the video causing that to happen. First and foremost, I am significantly stronger on my right side due to the scar tissue throughout the left latissimus dorsi muscle on my back. This is from the surgery eleven years ago that ultimately left me paralyzed. There isn't much I can do to strengthen certain areas, because there is simply no ability to grow muscle there. I'll post pics soon and show you what it looks like. That, plus I filmed this set AFTER my workout (and cardio) was complete for the day. So I was fairly exhausted already. On "back days" (which the set filmed was not a part of), the pullups are performed fresh. They are much more symmetrical then.

[quadinva]

A trophy guy, on 25 October 2011 - 12:32 AM, said:

quadinva, on 24 October 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:

In the more than 7 years I have been performing this exercise, I have never had such an accident.

In more than 25 years of jumping/diving/playing in pools, I had never broken my neck either...just saying, it only takes one time.

So do you think people should be banned from playing in pools?

Risk can never be eliminated altogether.

I've never had an accident bench pressing either, but I COULD have an accident. Should bench pressing be banned? What about ANY OTHER activity that carries some level of risk?

Were you banned from the gym for doing those pull ups, or just told not to do that particular exercise?

Im sure people get banned from pools if they do not adhere to the "no diving" signs and other safety conscious rules.

I would never disagree that risk could never be eliminated, but it can be controlled.

Comparing "benching" to doing "pullups 7 ft off the ground with a wheelchair and weights strapped to you" is comparing apples to billy goats.

[A trophy guy]

quadinva, on 25 October 2011 - 01:15 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 25 October 2011 - 12:32 AM, said:

quadinva, on 24 October 2011 - 10:39 PM, said:

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 04:27 AM, said:

In the more than 7 years I have been performing this exercise, I have never had such an accident.

In more than 25 years of jumping/diving/playing in pools, I had never broken my neck either...just saying, it only takes one time.

So do you think people should be banned from playing in pools?

Risk can never be eliminated altogether.

I've never had an accident bench pressing either, but I COULD have an accident. Should bench pressing be banned? What about ANY OTHER activity that carries some level of risk?

Were you banned from the gym for doing those pull ups, or just told not to do that particular exercise?

Im sure people get banned from pools if they do not adhere to the "no diving" signs and other safety conscious rules.

I would never disagree that risk could never be eliminated, but it can be controlled.

Comparing "benching" to doing "pullups 7 ft off the ground with a wheelchair and weights strapped to you" is comparing apples to billy goats.

Yes, I agree; because bench-pressing is actually a riskier activity than doing pullups in a wheelchair. It may look different, and therefore make people anxious and declare it unsafe. That's where the thread title comes in. And keep in mind, I did say that the bar which I did the pullups on at the gym which banned them was significantly lower to the ground than the one which I recorded. When hanging with arms extended from that bar, I would only be a few inches above the ground. Low enough to allow me to just drop myself from the bar when finished with the set.


And in answering my question as to whether or not playing in the pool should be banned, you changed your argument in answering me. I didn't ask you if rule-breakers should be banned for whatever rule they make be breaking, whether it be diving in a shallow pool or whatever. That is a completely different conversation; one which I happen to agree with you on.

I asked you if "playing in pools" should be banned too, because you likened spending 25 years of playing in pools and never having an accident until "that one", to my 7 years of doing wheelchair pullups and never yet having an accident.

Edited by A trophy guy, 25 October 2011 - 04:27 AM.

[edlee]

Risk is inherent in everything we do,, everyday. Obviously, common sense should dictate which and how much risk we assume. But one man's common sense may not be another's. If this manager had a problem with one of your exercises,, something as simple as a release of liability waiver would have been the simplest remedy. I think something more was in play.

TG,, I admire your dedication to your regimen. The results of your efforts are obvious. This manager's attitude toward you, personally,, is what I believe precipitated both incidents. She simply took the parking lot incident as an excuse to get you out of her life.

Had you spoken to her before the pullup banning? Maybe embarrass her in some way? One can never tell who will like us,, or dislike us,,, perhaps it;s genetic. Some people,, it seems,, we are predisposed to dislike from the onset. Usually we don't get the opportunity to correct the initial assessment.

It's good that you found another gym that works well for you. Maybe, at some time,, they will install an adjustable height pullup bar, that will allay some of the Virginia Quad's fears.
ed

[A trophy guy]

edlee, on 25 October 2011 - 07:49 PM, said:

Risk is inherent in everything we do,, everyday. Obviously, common sense should dictate which and how much risk we assume. But one man's common sense may not be another's. If this manager had a problem with one of your exercises,, something as simple as a release of liability waiver would have been the simplest remedy. I think something more was in play.

TG,, I admire your dedication to your regimen. The results of your efforts are obvious. This manager's attitude toward you, personally,, is what I believe precipitated both incidents. She simply took the parking lot incident as an excuse to get you out of her life.

Had you spoken to her before the pullup banning? Maybe embarrass her in some way? One can never tell who will like us,, or dislike us,,, perhaps it;s genetic. Some people,, it seems,, we are predisposed to dislike from the onset. Usually we don't get the opportunity to correct the initial assessment.

It's good that you found another gym that works well for you. Maybe, at some time,, they will install an adjustable height pullup bar, that will allay some of the Virginia Quad's fears.
ed

Ahha, we have a WINNER!!! Bingo! Spot on analysis! She didn't like me, that is for sure. And when she banned me because of the parking lot incident, she did so using double standards. There are active members (well, I actually only truly know of one) at that gym that have performed the exact same action that got ME banned, with NO punitive actions suffered whatsoever. But when I do it, I get kicked out. She didn't want to deal with the problem.

And as far as an adjustable height pullup bar, well, that is kind of what I was already using. See, in order to do the exercise properly, I must be high enough up so that I can perform the exercise with full range of motion. And I can't do that unless when I grab the bar with outstretched arms, my chair has clearance with the ground. Like I said, the bar at the gym which banned the exercise was only high enough so that when I was hanging from the bar my chair was only a few inches above the ground.

[paul1404]

Biggdawg is the man when it comes to weightlifting (even if his own muscles have gone a bit south in his old age)

[biggdoggpa]

Paul, on 25 October 2011 - 08:06 PM, said:

Biggdawg is the man when it comes to weightlifting (even if his own muscles have gone a bit south in his old age)

lol thanks Paul!!! It's nice that you have faith in me still lol!! typically we use 45 - 100 pound plates instead of chairs but i give this kid props cause they aren't the easiest exercise to do.........

[greybeard]

[A trophy guy]

greybeard, on 31 October 2011 - 01:16 AM, said:

Good for him!

And that is great; if you are just starting out. But there are a couple issues with what he is doing there:

1) It's not a pull-up, it's a chin-up. It might sound like a small, insignificant difference, but the two exercises are worlds apart. Chin ups are performed with an underhand grip; like this guy is doing. They primarily work your biceps, with a little bit of lower lat work as secondary. Pull-ups are performed with an over-hand, wide grip. This works the back muscles primarily; most notably the lats. The biceps are the secondary muscles in this exercise. Chin ups are quite a bit easier than pullups.

2) He's not getting a full range of motion for the exercise. Because he's limited to putting the bar only as high as he can reach from his chair, he wont be able to perform a whole chin up because he won't be able to hang from the bar.

This is something I played around with several years ago. The lack of range of motion really makes it a lousy exercise, IMO. If this guy is happy with it, I can't say anything bad to him. Good for him.

[Tetracyclone]

A trophy guy, on 25 October 2011 - 12:49 AM, said:

Tetracyclone, on 25 October 2011 - 12:43 AM, said:

A Trophy Guy,

First, I love your name. I second Goose's comment- gulp, but since you filmed from the rear I tell myself you are seriously ugly, so I should not drool on myself.

I too would be really hurt by the actions of that manager at the first gym. Unbelievably cruel.

Finally, try to counter that pull to the right that you get, where your right side is stronger. Over time this sort of thing distorts the lower spine and will give you problems - spines are healthiest when they are straight. So instead of adding more weight, emphasize a symmetrical pull up until that left side equals up.

I see this error a lot in weightlifters and, as a former massage therapist, I know it hurts people down the line.

My initial introduction to my present gym (in Taiwan) was dicey. The sales guy tried to put restrictions on when I could be there and wanted to always be there to help me load my chair when I leave. Taiwanese do this all the time- I can push myself all over they gym, practice standing and taking steps, and they still act like they should push me into the elevator. I attribute this to a strong helping ethic (I am also old and wrinkled up) that leaves people sure they will be criticized if they do NOT help me. Anyway, they did get used to me being the first of my kind in the place, and some members are friendly and encouraging. Some seem uncomfortable with my being there, but they just look away. i am pretty sure that, because of my status as an elder, if anyone gives me sh*t then a serious tongue-lashing by me will send them back into the quiet zone.

But that manager- unbelievably cruel. See if you can embarrass her in public for it. Glad you have a new place and you are right, weight-lifting can be dangerous.

Aaaah, good eye in noticing my rightward sway. There are a couple of factors at play in the video causing that to happen. First and foremost, I am significantly stronger on my right side due to the scar tissue throughout the left latissimus dorsi muscle on my back. This is from the surgery eleven years ago that ultimately left me paralyzed. There isn't much I can do to strengthen certain areas, because there is simply no ability to grow muscle there. I'll post pics soon and show you what it looks like. That, plus I filmed this set AFTER my workout (and cardio) was complete for the day. So I was fairly exhausted already. On "back days" (which the set filmed was not a part of), the pullups are performed fresh. They are much more symmetrical then.

I have relative weakness on the left side also, and some muscles the either do not fire, or rarely- just often enough to fill me with unjustifiable hope. But I am in my 60s with little ability to rebuild muscle tissue even where there is nerve function. Very scrawny compared to 4 years ago even though I work out. I discontinue an exercise once the left side gives up because I suspect it is dangerous to my spine to invest in overdevelopment of the "good"side. It seems there is always something else I can do, but I am a quad, unlike you, with the glacial patience of old age.

The relative overdevelopment of the right leg is ok with me as I finally have learned to swing/drag my right leg over my mate in bed, allowing me to mount him. Such are the real life skills that really count.

Nice discussion. You will get used to the fact that some people will take a dislike to you for reasons you never understand. Consider it a sort of power.

[Califanna]

A trophy guy, on 24 October 2011 - 01:16 AM, said:

It doesn't seem like the ideal forum for this to be placed, but nowhere else did either so I didn't know where else to go with this...

I recently posted a link to a news story about me getting kicked out of my gym which I had been a member of for more than ten years. Well, just about a month prior to the parking-lot fiasco which led to my membership-revokation I had an essential exercise in my workout regimen suddenly and arbitrarily banned by the very same manager who would ultimately kick me out.

This exercise is the wheelchair pullup. I have been doing these for YEARS, and had been doing them for years at the very gym which banned them. I started doing them because the gym didn't provide any accessible lat-pulldown equipment (which is the comparable machine-version of the pullup exercise). I perfected this exercise in the years I had been doing them.

The manager who banned them was a relatively new manager. She received word from some member (who didn't like the idea of someone in a wheelchair hanging off the ground) who told her of my activities. She then informed me of her decision (without even witnessing the exercise for herself), saying that the exercise was a "reckless and dangerous" activity which presented too great a risk of injury.

I immediately countered with the question of how did it present any more of a risk than any other weight lifting exercise performed in this gym (like bench pressing, deadlifting, squating, etc.). She had no reply.

Anyway, at my new gym I had a friend videotape a set of the wheelchair pullups. Now these are slightly differnt than what one would have seen at the gym that banned them; but it is only because they were actually SAFER at the place that banned them. I was lower to the ground and able to simply drop myself to the ground when done (rather than have the guys who lifted me to the bar lift me back down as well). But this video is fairly similar to what I was doing when I had it banned.

What is the general opinion here? (sorry if it seems like i'm dumping all this stuff all at once, I just am excited to have found a place like this)

http://sharing.thefl...video/109449241

Why are you doing them with the wheelchair attached to your body? As for danger level, I guess I could see that the people lifting you could get hurt by lifting you. Another concern is that you could slip out of your chair leaving your chair to fall and possibly become damaged.

Do you have weights in the backpack behind the chair? If yes, then that could be a concern too because the weights could damage the floor or your chair.

We live in such a litigious society especially within the adapted community and so businesses are fearful of us. They just see dollar signs every time we enter a business. Due to some bad apples, I won't mention names, we have become pariahs in the eyes of the ab community.

On another note, good for you that you are strong enough to do the pull-ups. Kudos.

[tomsov]

Really to anyone that thinks this is dangerous i will take the side of trophy guy. To begin with membership often requires a release of liability. As for the dangerous part there is a potential of cracking you head open but so is doing a wheelly in a chair. that is a simple fix. wear a helmet. other then cracking your head open and potentially breaking your arms to suppress the fall what is the worse thing that could happen. He already has some type of spinal trauma. i would just go back when the manager isn't there. Do what you gotta do. you aren't going to break anymore then you already are. Right now that is the one thing that is going to prevent you from breaking. Really take a shit on her car.