56 replies to this topic

[A trophy guy]

As someone who doesn't have spasms, I deal with the flipside of the issue. I have extreme atrophy in my lower body, as a result of the flaccidity of my paralysis. Now I have problems and issues as a result of this, I won't go into details here, as they are complicated and take up too much time to explain (and I have detailed some before).

However, I have read many of the woeful tales of spacticity and I realize it is one of the realities many of those who deal with SCI face. I also know that there are positive aspects to the condition as well. Such as increased muscle tone, due to (involuntary) muscle activity below the injury level. This presents many positive correlates.

My question to all of you is this: If you could choose, what would you pick? Would you keep your spasms, in order to keep the muscle tone and size to your lower body (and keep all the benefits that that entails); or would you choose no spasms at all and rather deal with the atrophy in your lower body (and the issues that that brings along).

I am very curious. Because I REALLY hate my skinny legs. I will never wear shorts; aside from a bathing suit. However, I am so glad I don't deal with spasms. Also, my skinny, flaccid legs make transferring and moving (in general) SO easy and fluid, I must acknowledge that as well. I go back and forth as to what I'd like. Also, the muscle tone from spasms helps keep one's bones strong; so that's another plus for spasms.

Give me some feedback. Please.

[wheelie182]

I have terrible spasms. Every time I transfer my legs will have a good old stretch. I also have very stiff legs which can also make transferring difficult.

But I wouldn't say my legs are any more toned than someone who doesn't have spasms.

[A trophy guy]

wheelie182, on 15 November 2011 - 08:15 PM, said:

I have terrible spasms. Every time I transfer my legs will have a good old stretch. I also have very stiff legs which can also make transferring difficult.

But I wouldn't say my legs are any more toned than someone who doesn't have spasms.

Really? Because my legs are straight up sticks. Skin and bones. Is that how yours are? If not, then I'd venture that your spacticity is having a sparing effect on your muscle tone.

[wheelie182]

They're skinny enough for me to be obsessive about always tinkering with my trousers

[sherbs]

I have spasms and awful skinny legs, the left is skinnier than the right, I never wear skirts or dresses, as far to embarrassed with my legs on show, oh and i walk, well stumble around, but thats getting harder now so using a chair more nowadays

[Ratticis]

Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity

[tsh3406]

I've been in a chair for 20 years, my legs however, give no indication that I'm paralyzed, and I hate to wear anything but shorts. I can trigger spasms very easily when needed, and they are extremely helpful when climbing into a truck or SUV, or getting out of a hottub. I get lined up, get the quads going, and they straighten right out. It took a lot of practice, but I wouldn't give up the muscle tone for anything.

And a muscle contraction is a muscle contraction, voluntary or not, and it burns calories and promotes strength just like it always did....

[lifeisgood]

tsh3406, on 15 November 2011 - 08:47 PM, said:

I've been in a chair for 20 years, my legs however, give no indication that I'm paralyzed, and I hate to wear anything but shorts. I can trigger spasms very easily when needed, and they are extremely helpful when climbing into a truck or SUV, or getting out of a hottub. I get lined up, get the quads going, and they straighten right out. It took a lot of practice, but I wouldn't give up the muscle tone for anything.

And a muscle contraction is a muscle contraction, voluntary or not, and it burns calories and promotes strength just like it always did....

I prefer spasms. and tone. But if you dont move alot and stretch all day..lift leg up and pull foot toward you and occasionally let them straighten out and go crazy..then the spasms will get in the way..I find ways to move and stretch legs/feet regularily throughout the day.

[A trophy guy]

Ratticis, on 15 November 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity

Dude, you are just a straight up douchebag.

You shouldn't open your mouth. You just look foolish.

[russ1]

Ratticis, on 15 November 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity

As someone who had serious spasm issues for 6 yrs post injury and chose a baclofen pump to almost completely eliminate them I can comment on tis with some degree of authority

Spasms do undoubtably help with muscle tone - prior to the pump I had pretty decent legs size and not too bad a tetra belly. Post pump my legs have thinned to a much grater degree and my belly has developed much more.

However my life is so much better without the spasms I'd never go back, I don't spend large amounts of time and effort fighting against them every time I dress or transfer, my feet stay on my footplate and I don't double up (or occasionally go straight rigid) with stomach spasms at inopportune moments that it's made my life so much easier and better.

[cas]

I don't have spasms. After 2 yrs my legs r st beginning to thin down. Not sure whether it's a "woman" thing. But the wasting doesn't bother me at all. I wld def prefer it to any spasms.

[RZ94]

I GOTS BOTH, SPAZZZ AND NO TONE......I DON'T GOT NO BACLOFEN PUNP THOUGH....I TAKE BACLOFEN 3X ADAY + FLEX-SUMTHIN' NOT SURE WHAT IT IS.

I GOT A FRIEND WHO HAS THE SPAZZ AND LIKE THAT FELLER TSH3406 UP TOP SAID YOU CAN'T TELL HE BE A CRIPPLE. (CEPT FER THE CHAIR, DEAD GIVAWAY)

[Vanessamaee]

Well I dont know if Im the only one. But I chose spasms. Ive posted in a thread of mine that I dont like taking medications. I however, have had muscle atrophy anyways, but not too bad. MY legs are smaller than they were before, but I have lost a lot of muscle in them since they have not been walking. Im not sure if it is the spasms that is helping slow the atrophy or if the fes bike is. overall though, Spasms suck. If you would choose them over none spasms. I think that would be a poor choice. Spasms are a pain in the...butt.

[greybeard]

A trophy guy, on 15 November 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

My question to all of you is this: If you could choose, what would you pick?

What does it matter? Nobody gets to choose. Everyone just has to cope with what they get.

[A trophy guy]

greybeard, on 15 November 2011 - 10:17 PM, said:

A trophy guy, on 15 November 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

My question to all of you is this: If you could choose, what would you pick?

What does it matter? Nobody gets to choose. Everyone just has to cope with what they get.

It's called a "discussion". It's to talk about what sort of value one places on certain aspects of their disability versus it's drawbacks. Everyone copes and manages in unique, individual ways. I am intrigued to learn about others' mindsets. Again, if you don't like what I'm talking about, you simply don't have to open it.

Edited by A trophy guy, 16 November 2011 - 01:21 AM.

[A trophy guy]

Vanessamaee, on 15 November 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

Well I dont know if Im the only one. But I chose spasms. Ive posted in a thread of mine that I dont like taking medications. I however, have had muscle atrophy anyways, but not too bad. MY legs are smaller than they were before, but I have lost a lot of muscle in them since they have not been walking. Im not sure if it is the spasms that is helping slow the atrophy or if the fes bike is. overall though, Spasms suck. If you would choose them over none spasms. I think that would be a poor choice. Spasms are a pain in the...butt.

I'm a bit confused by this. You say at the beginning of this post that you "chose spasms". And then at the end of this post you say "if you would choose them (spasms) over none spasms. I think that would be a poor choice..."

So are you saying that you regret your initial decision to choose spasms instead of medication?

[Vanessamaee]

A trophy guy, on 16 November 2011 - 01:27 AM, said:

Vanessamaee, on 15 November 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

Well I dont know if Im the only one. But I chose spasms. Ive posted in a thread of mine that I dont like taking medications. I however, have had muscle atrophy anyways, but not too bad. MY legs are smaller than they were before, but I have lost a lot of muscle in them since they have not been walking. Im not sure if it is the spasms that is helping slow the atrophy or if the fes bike is. overall though, Spasms suck. If you would choose them over none spasms. I think that would be a poor choice. Spasms are a pain in the...butt.

I'm a bit confused by this. You say at the beginning of this post that you "chose spasms". And then at the end of this post you say "if you would choose them (spasms) over none spasms. I think that would be a poor choice..."

So are you saying that you regret your initial decision to choose spasms instead of medication?

I (as in me) chose spasms. ONLY because I refuse medication. So instead I am looking new for new ways and figuring out a routine to keep spasms under control, so I will not have to live with them all of the time. If we were all offered an option to have them or not, I would however choose not to so I do not have to put up with them and find a way to reduce them. Make more sense?

[A trophy guy]

cas, on 15 November 2011 - 09:40 PM, said:

I don't have spasms. After 2 yrs my legs r st beginning to thin down. Not sure whether it's a "woman" thing. But the wasting doesn't bother me at all. I wld def prefer it to any spasms.

I'm curious about this. You say they are just beginning, after 2yrs, to "thin down"?
Because for me, it only took a few months and my legs just shriveled right up. The muscle just disappeared. The rapidity of it was rather shocking. I never had any sort of spacticity in the least bit and my muscles never had any sort of movement or exercise; so they atrophied right up.

I wonder why your atrophy has been slower and less severe? What is your overall body mass like? Thin, slender, average, athletic, stockier, what? Because, while I would never attempt to put words in your mouth or think for you, I would be surprised if, even as a woman, you wouldn't be bothered at all with legs as atrophied as mine. Of course I could be dead wrong.

Vanessamaee, on 16 November 2011 - 01:32 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 16 November 2011 - 01:27 AM, said:

Vanessamaee, on 15 November 2011 - 09:49 PM, said:

Well I dont know if Im the only one. But I chose spasms. Ive posted in a thread of mine that I dont like taking medications. I however, have had muscle atrophy anyways, but not too bad. MY legs are smaller than they were before, but I have lost a lot of muscle in them since they have not been walking. Im not sure if it is the spasms that is helping slow the atrophy or if the fes bike is. overall though, Spasms suck. If you would choose them over none spasms. I think that would be a poor choice. Spasms are a pain in the...butt.

I'm a bit confused by this. You say at the beginning of this post that you "chose spasms". And then at the end of this post you say "if you would choose them (spasms) over none spasms. I think that would be a poor choice..."

So are you saying that you regret your initial decision to choose spasms instead of medication?

I (as in me) chose spasms. ONLY because I refuse medication. So instead I am looking new for new ways and figuring out a routine to keep spasms under control, so I will not have to live with them all of the time. If we were all offered an option to have them or not, I would however choose not to so I do not have to put up with them and find a way to reduce them. Make more sense?

Yes.

tsh3406, on 15 November 2011 - 08:47 PM, said:

I've been in a chair for 20 years, my legs however, give no indication that I'm paralyzed, and I hate to wear anything but shorts. I can trigger spasms very easily when needed, and they are extremely helpful when climbing into a truck or SUV, or getting out of a hottub. I get lined up, get the quads going, and they straighten right out. It took a lot of practice, but I wouldn't give up the muscle tone for anything.

And a muscle contraction is a muscle contraction, voluntary or not, and it burns calories and promotes strength just like it always did....

Yeah, see; I am so envious of this kind of thing. This sounds so nice. I can definitely appreciate this post.

[MTB John]

Pros:
I can get about ten really good steps due to a spasm in my hip flexor. My foot swings through with enough height to climb stairs.
No pressures sores thanks to more muscle tone.
Tetra dancing - one of my party tricks is to slide forward in my chair lean back and tickle my ribs. My legs flail about like made, it freaks people out.
I can grip things in my left hand due in part tithe spasm adding strength.
I used to be mocked for having skinny legs - now other wheelies complement me on their shapelyness.

Cons:
With each step the tone in my quads increases until the leg locks up completely.
My wife waking up with fresh bruises.
Major fatigue issues due to spasm meds and the simple fact that I have muscles firing all the time.
I can't let to of things.
I squash the old fella all the time because I can not sit with my knees apart.

I guess overall they are more useful then not. I did learn from the start to work with them rather then against them..

[goose]

I've learned to work with mine. I use them to my advantage. I can trigger them if I need help moving my legs around or if I just want to burn some extra calories. After 25 years, I still have some muscle tone in my legs. I personally enjoy seeing them move...I can make my legs tap for at least an hour. I can out last any AB and make mine move much faster too. Easy way to win a fun bet.

It did take alittle time learning to somewhat control them. There are times they get in my way or they occur at the most awkward time but overall I choose to see them as an advantage.

It was my choice NOT to take anything for them and I don't regret that decision at all.

[A trophy guy]

Very interesting, Goose. This is the type of insight I was looking for.

[A trophy guy]

I just remembered something interesting. I actually have experienced some element of spacticity before, a few times actually. It's strange.

Well I've talked quite a bit about the fact that I can still perform sexually after my sci, but I suffer from extreme pre-mature ejaculation (as a result of nerve damage). Now I have successfully (imo) treated this problem, but something I have noticed is a few rare times when I have been stretching my legs, my hamstrings in particular, when I am really getting a good stretch; I will actually "come". Without an erection, without any sort of stimulation, just like that.

And it's not an enjoyable orgasm or anything, it's just "come" coming out of my limp penis. The only thing that felt good was the stretch I was giving my legs. But it baffled me for so long.

But now I'm thinking, are these things all related? My PE, spacticity, and the fact that I have ejaculated from deep stretches?

[Ratticis]

A trophy guy, on 15 November 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Ratticis, on 15 November 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity

Dude, you are just a straight up douchebag.

You shouldn't open your mouth. You just look foolish.

Well you're definitly an authority on that subject, and in your own mind, all other subjects too. f*@k it, have fun being a prick

[A trophy guy]

Ratticis, on 16 November 2011 - 06:25 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 15 November 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Ratticis, on 15 November 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity

Dude, you are just a straight up douchebag.

You shouldn't open your mouth. You just look foolish.

Well you're definitly an authority on that subject, and in your own mind, all other subjects too. f*@k it, have fun being a prick

Why do some people seem to need to come into threads for no other reason than to be disagreeable? Just go away. I've never sought to bother you.

[Edinburgh Colin]

I prefer having them although manage them with baclofen and dantrolene.
As far as atrophy goes, I an no master at anatomy hut I bet most peoples spasms only use a very small amount of the groups of muscles present so will not necessarily retain a huge amount of mass. Everyone is different though.
EC

[brockit79]

A trophy guy, on 15 November 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

As someone who doesn't have spasms, I deal with the flipside of the issue. I have extreme atrophy in my lower body, as a result of the flaccidity of my paralysis. Now I have problems and issues as a result of this, I won't go into details here, as they are complicated and take up too much time to explain (and I have detailed some before).

However, I have read many of the woeful tales of spacticity and I realize it is one of the realities many of those who deal with SCI face. I also know that there are positive aspects to the condition as well. Such as increased muscle tone, due to (involuntary) muscle activity below the injury level. This presents many positive correlates.

My question to all of you is this: If you could choose, what would you pick? Would you keep your spasms, in order to keep the muscle tone and size to your lower body (and keep all the benefits that that entails); or would you choose no spasms at all and rather deal with the atrophy in your lower body (and the issues that that brings along).

I am very curious. Because I REALLY hate my skinny legs. I will never wear shorts; aside from a bathing suit. However, I am so glad I don't deal with spasms. Also, my skinny, flaccid legs make transferring and moving (in general) SO easy and fluid, I must acknowledge that as well. I go back and forth as to what I'd like. Also, the muscle tone from spasms helps keep one's bones strong; so that's another plus for spasms.

Give me some feedback. Please.

Hi

The honest answer from me is: that I'd rather have them. Spasm can indicate peripheral nerve integrity which means that muscle can be developed using FES exercise machines.

I have been informed that when I start to use FES I may get increased spasm but it is a price that I'm willing to pay in order to have muscle back in my legs and for them to more resemble what they once looked like as well as I will have more luck with treatments that may be available in the future as well as the other health benefits to the rest of the body having an increased muscle mass.

Broc

[Parachute]

I have spasms everyday and night. I have very good muscle tone, so I would simply choose to have the spasms and the muscle tone.

[Vanessamaee]

A trophy guy, on 16 November 2011 - 07:34 AM, said:

Ratticis, on 16 November 2011 - 06:25 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 15 November 2011 - 09:15 PM, said:

Ratticis, on 15 November 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity

Dude, you are just a straight up douchebag.

You shouldn't open your mouth. You just look foolish.

Well you're definitly an authority on that subject, and in your own mind, all other subjects too. f*@k it, have fun being a prick

Why do some people seem to need to come into threads for no other reason than to be disagreeable? Just go away. I've never sought to bother you.

You asked for opinions and Rat gave his. I dont see this as a douchebag comment. I see yours as rather rude though. and when you ask for opinions, your gonna get different sides. Not everyone is going to agree with your ways, its life, get over it.

[lavenderthistle]

http://www.apparelyz...__1#entry207361


post 114 might help you!!


cheers

[scaldedcat]

Vanessamaee

You've got to be kidding don't you? "You asked for opinion's and Rat gave his". What he asked for was an opinion on, "My question to all of you is this: If you could choose, what would you pick?". Rat's reply: "Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity". Sorry, that's not an opinion, it is, as I'm sure he knows now, an ill-informed attack on the person asking the question. I personally had no idea one way or the other, and hence I didn't post. But it has become apparent by the numerous posts confirming that spasms and muscle tone are indeed related. I notice that Rat never replied again once he realised he was wrong, and you trying to justify what he said and blame the original poster is just pathtetic.

I have no opinion one way or the other on either of these members, but when someone is clearly in the wrong they should acknowledge it and move on. I don't think one of their mates posting to try and put the blame back on the oringinal poster gives either of you a whole lot of credibility.

Sorry, I had to edit my post, Rat did get back to him "Well you're definitly an authority on that subject, and in your own mind, all other subjects too. f*@k it, have fun being a prick". Even when you know you're wrong, who cares, just use profanities to make up for your lack of knowledge. Very mature.

Rat says that lately this forum has made him lose his faith in humanity. On that point, at least, I agree with him.

Edited by scaldedcat, 17 November 2011 - 03:16 AM.