56 replies to this topic

[Vanessamaee]

scaldedcat, on 17 November 2011 - 03:06 AM, said:

Vanessamaee

You've got to be kidding don't you? "You asked for opinion's and Rat gave his". What he asked for was an opinion on, "My question to all of you is this: If you could choose, what would you pick?". Rat's reply: "Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity". Sorry, that's not an opinion, it is, as I'm sure he knows now, an ill-informed attack on the person asking the question. I personally had no idea one way or the other, and hence I didn't post. But it has become apparent by the numerous posts confirming that spasms and muscle tone are indeed related. I notice that Rat never replied again once he realised he was wrong, and you trying to justify what he said and blame the original poster is just pathtetic.

I have no opinion one way or the other on either of these members, but when someone is clearly in the wrong they should acknowledge it and move on. I don't think one of their mates posting to try and put the blame back on the oringinal poster gives either of you a whole lot of credibility.

Rats answer is, in fact, an opinion. It is what he thinks. I dont see why him (or anyone else) can't say what THEY actually think, even if it may be different from the thoughts of the poster or anyone else who commented on it. and no. I talked to my docotor. Spasms will help slow down atrophy, but will not create muscle tone. As she actually said when I refused baclofen "congrats, do you want a gold star for your forehead? You legs will atrophy eventually."

[Ratticis]

Perhaps I should rephrase that, really, who cares how skinny someones legs are? Really, this is like asking "Would you rather be shot or stabbed?" As for "attack", who called who a douchebag? The OP is constantly bitching and complaining about everything and always pissy if anyones opinion differs from his, and frankly, I'm sick of his "poor me" bullshit. And what's with whining if someone doesn't respond within 4 hours? Believe it or not, some of us have lives outside this forum. Long story short, Trophy Guy acts like a spoiled 6 year old who is in serious need of a dose of reality.

[Denna]

Im on the fence about my spasms. When I can get them to work for me then I think that would be great. Right now all they do is annoy me. Like when I cath in bed in the middle of the night only to have a spasm and spill it everywhere. And other such things. I heard your legs will atrophy no matter what sense your not actively using them. But then again that person might be wrong. My legs are skinny and my thighs are flat. My spasms dont seem to help. Goose oh mighty master you need to teach me how to tame my unruly legs. Maybe over a cup of starbucks and some of lavs brownies!

[Irish Wheelz]

Me... I don't care about the muscles in my legs. I don't plan on walking anytime soon. I accept that. I can go without the spasm. When I want to put my compression socks on, my legs spas. When I want to put on my old school adidas, they freaking spas. I shower they spas. I sleep they spas and I yell at them like their animals. lol. The worste is when I have the running sh**, I gotta race to the bathroom and throw my ass on the toilet. Not only am I fighting with my jeans, I'm fighting with my legs too when they spas out. So if I had the choice to which I don't, I rather go with out the spasm. I believe I came up with a poem for this.

http://www.apparelyz...ms/page__st__30 Post #33, all about my spasm.

[brockit79]

.

Edited by brockit79, 17 November 2011 - 08:50 AM.

[biggdoggpa]

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

i agree with brockit79

[Irish Wheelz]

biggdoggpa, on 17 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

i agree with brockit79

I'll even give her rep. She is one wise person.

[biggdoggpa]

She is for sure IW!!! lol

[paul1404]

Denna, on 17 November 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

Im on the fence about my spasms. When I can get them to work for me then I think that would be great. Right now all they do is annoy me. Like when I cath in bed in the middle of the night only to have a spasm and spill it everywhere. And other such things. I heard your legs will atrophy no matter what sense your not actively using them. But then again that person might be wrong. My legs are skinny and my thighs are flat. My spasms dont seem to help. Goose oh mighty master you need to teach me how to tame my unruly legs. Maybe over a cup of starbucks and some of lavs brownies!

you would 'nt be on the fence if you had spasams you would be in next doors garden or if you was stiil on the fence you would have a splinter some where not nice! By the way I am very good with tweezers

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

I see you ve beeb backtracking again Kes

biggdoggpa, on 17 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

i agree with brockit79

Brown nose

[biggdoggpa]

paul1404, on 17 November 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

Denna, on 17 November 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

Im on the fence about my spasms. When I can get them to work for me then I think that would be great. Right now all they do is annoy me. Like when I cath in bed in the middle of the night only to have a spasm and spill it everywhere. And other such things. I heard your legs will atrophy no matter what sense your not actively using them. But then again that person might be wrong. My legs are skinny and my thighs are flat. My spasms dont seem to help. Goose oh mighty master you need to teach me how to tame my unruly legs. Maybe over a cup of starbucks and some of lavs brownies!

you would 'nt be on the fence if you had spasams you would be in next doors garden or if you was stiil on the fence you would have a splinter some where not nice! By the way I am very good with tweezers

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

I see you ve beeb backtracking again Kes

biggdoggpa, on 17 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

i agree with brockit79

Brown nose

back up off my KEL KEL paul lol

[tsh3406]

[megatrig]

Ratticis, on 15 November 2011 - 08:43 PM, said:

Are you seriously that foolish that you think spasms actually help with muscle tone? As of late, this forum seriously makes me lose faith in humanity

Ehhhhhh............! Of course spasm increases tone!!

Just read your other comments though! .. What a Muppet!

Spasm!

24 years on. It was useful but dealing with spasm for the last few years has become a nightmare!

Sat here now. Spasm still hurts! The baclofen Pump reducing spasm hurts. The effect on bowel regime from baclofen intrathecaly is a nightmare!!

Spasm first thing in the morning stops me dressing easily!!!

I could go on!

I used to have "ok", "manageble spasm". Very useful to help transfer!

Yes your legs look "normal" and not wasted too.

Interseting thread this. I want manageable spasm back pleassssssssssssssssse!!! Or "The Cure"!!

[wheelie182]

Quote

Perhaps I should rephrase that, really, who cares how skinny someones legs are?

I really don't like my skinny legs, they look unhealthy and fragile.

Maybe I'm the unlucky one, but my spasms never help me in my transfers. They wait till a point where the balance point is at its critical and then completely throw me off

[brockit79]

Irish Wheelz, on 17 November 2011 - 10:27 AM, said:

biggdoggpa, on 17 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

i agree with brockit79

I'll even give her rep. She is one wise person.

I thought that may inspire a few of you guys

paul1404, on 17 November 2011 - 11:45 AM, said:

Denna, on 17 November 2011 - 05:23 AM, said:

Im on the fence about my spasms. When I can get them to work for me then I think that would be great. Right now all they do is annoy me. Like when I cath in bed in the middle of the night only to have a spasm and spill it everywhere. And other such things. I heard your legs will atrophy no matter what sense your not actively using them. But then again that person might be wrong. My legs are skinny and my thighs are flat. My spasms dont seem to help. Goose oh mighty master you need to teach me how to tame my unruly legs. Maybe over a cup of starbucks and some of lavs brownies!

you would 'nt be on the fence if you had spasams you would be in next doors garden or if you was stiil on the fence you would have a splinter some where not nice! By the way I am very good with tweezers

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

I see you ve beeb backtracking again Kes

biggdoggpa, on 17 November 2011 - 10:17 AM, said:

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 08:49 AM, said:

.

i agree with brockit79

Brown nose

you're just jealous, Dogg knows profound shiiz when he reads it

tsh3406, on 17 November 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

really?

wheelie182, on 17 November 2011 - 02:41 PM, said:

Quote

Perhaps I should rephrase that, really, who cares how skinny someones legs are?

I really don't like my skinny legs, they look unhealthy and fragile.

Maybe I'm the unlucky one, but my spasms never help me in my transfers. They wait till a point where the balance point is at its critical and then completely throw me off

I don't like the look of mine either

[tsh3406]

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 06:00 PM, said:

tsh3406, on 17 November 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

really?

Lol, just tryin' to lighten things up...

[The Black Sheep]

I'll keep them. Like a couple of others, my spasms can be initiated and helpful with transferring. I was on Baclofen for a few years and I did lose a bit of muscle tone. I had absolute jelly legs while on the meds and went off of it for several reasons.

I think part of my decision is because I don't have really bad spasms. They straighten and kick sometimes, but I also have full use of my arms to keep my body in the chair. When I sleep, I can flip onto my belly and rub my butt, which in turn triggers my legs to spasm straight. It's not elegant, but I'll settle for predictable.

My biggest quarrel with spasms isn't with my legs. It's my abs. It always makes me burp and get heartburn when my belly quivers.

[brockit79]

tsh3406, on 17 November 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 06:00 PM, said:

tsh3406, on 17 November 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

really?

Lol, just tryin' to lighten things up...

haha, really? how does one stumble across the 'really' clip? It is so rare that I slip up ;) that I expect fully to get blazed when I do. It is OK though; I'll get them back....as for the other hostilities REALLY?

[knightrider]

I'd prefer to keep them they help with some transfers but also can be a pain like when i throw them in the car before i transfer and they go nuts but at least they're getting some activity when that happens lol. They can also be useful in letting me know when something is wrong, like if i get a sudden big jerky style spasm it either means i'm uncomfy and need to relieve pressure or sitting on something, need a pee/shit etc but i'm kinda lucky in that respect anyway coz i've got some feeling.
Yes spasms can be a pain in the ass but can be a good thing if you have them, obviously if they are under control with the likes of Baclofen or they would drive anyone up the wall. Mine have atrophied spesh in the calf area compared to what they were like before but that's going to happen anyway because i'm no longer walking but still have good mass in the thighs.

But i do also like the feeling when they are loose and jelly like after a relaxing bath, swim or even after a good sesh between the sheets, because afterwards they feel nice and relaxed for a few hours and i can pick my legs up without any spasticity or tightness in them at all which makes a change from the norm.

Edited by knightrider, 17 November 2011 - 09:23 PM.

[tsh3406]

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 09:19 PM, said:

tsh3406, on 17 November 2011 - 06:17 PM, said:

brockit79, on 17 November 2011 - 06:00 PM, said:

tsh3406, on 17 November 2011 - 12:38 PM, said:

really?

Lol, just tryin' to lighten things up...

haha, really? how does one stumble across the 'really' clip? It is so rare that I slip up ;) that I expect fully to get blazed when I do. It is OK though; I'll get them back....as for the other hostilities REALLY?

Oh, it wasn't directed at anyone in particular, folk just seem to rile easy sometimes, so I thought it'd be good for a laugh. It's a running joke among my friends, we all watch wrestling, so it just popped into my head, lol....

[tsh3406]

Oh, and just so everyone is taking all things into consideration, anti-spasm drugs (as with ANY drug) are like a volume knob. To low a dose does nothing, too much will kill you. There is a sweet spot where you retain some spasticity, but it will not significantly interfere with your life. It may take several months to find it, but that's where most of us are that "use" our spasms.

Tim

[Tetracyclone]

Seriously ATrophy Guy, you have not lived until you undertake your workout with a belt of tight muscles under the rib cage, constricting your diaphragm. Without that, no challenge.

Try it, a leather belt done just right will be almost as good. This can be your Pretender experience.

[A trophy guy]

Tetracyclone, on 18 November 2011 - 04:38 AM, said:

Seriously ATrophy Guy, you have not lived until you undertake your workout with a belt of tight muscles under the rib cage, constricting your diaphragm. Without that, no challenge.

Try it, a leather belt done just right will be almost as good. This can be your Pretender experience.

I can't imagine. But I definitely wouldn't say "no challenge". How about trying to maintain daily functioning, muchless workouts, when you have such atrophy and tissue loss in your buttock area that you lack any protection whatsoever from inflicting damage from having a lack of tissue between bone and sitting surface. Literally skin and bones. Or, more appropriately; bones, skin and clothes.

And then add trying to endure a "pre-contest" bodybuilding diet (and workout) regimen, in which I would lose bodyfat. Most of the fat would be from my upper body, of course, but even some came from my lower body. And that made my atrophy and skinniness even more pronounced. If I hadn't come up with the "butt solution" that I did, I would never have been able to compete in bodybuilding competitions in the first place. If I hadn't come up with that solution, I'd probably have wound up in the hospital long time ago.

My butt would get traumatic wounds, like puncture wounds almost, from all the activity I would endure and surfaces I'd be on and impact it'd take. And I could feel everything. It would hurt like hell and bleed. I never had any sort of pressure=sore issues, I could feel everything, so I never remained in one spot really ever. It simply got uncomfortable. So not to confuse this with decubitus ulcers. Not the same at all. Also I never had any sort of infection.

After I saw dermatologists, wheelchair docs, even plastic surgeons(to discuss the possibility of implanting butt "implants" or cheeks out of saline or silicone) and all of them turned into dead ends, I started to get desperate. So, to make a long story just a tiny bit less long, I started making butt cheeks for myself. Out of adhesive pads, guaze pads and hypoallergenic medical tape (tape that wouldn't irritate my skin with repeated use but would stick). I basically covered and padded each cheek and then taped each side down; and taped them down extensively. That was the only was to keep them in place throughout the day.

I did this for more than six years, every single day. I did not miss a single day. There were some days when even the padding and my meticulous care weren't enough to keep me from getting really scared and very hurt. And visually, it was something kinda shocking to see. I mean, I got used to it of course, seeing as how I had a big mirror up against it for more than an hour every single day for years as I dressed it, but my butt was an unknown thing for me. I was just handling it as I went.

It made life, day to day, a hassle. I couldn't do things spontaneously anymore. Things like going swimming or whatever. Because if I got wet, that meant I got my butt wet too. And that meant I had to re-do my butt cheeks. So if I wanted to ever go swimming, I had to plan it and bring the necessary supplies with me. When i went to the gym, I brought a day's worth of "butt supplies" along with me with my gym stuff too. It was just part of the process. I HATED it, but it was part of my thing.

Finally, a little more than six months ago, I felt good enough to attempt what I hadn't yet done. I went for a good part of the day without the butt pads on. It was just me and my underwear. At first, I honestly felt kind of freaked out. It was weird. But it didn't feel bad. I slowly began going more and more without the pads, and I felt more and more confident without them. Finally came the ultimate test; working out without them. And it came and went fairly well.

It has been SOOOO great to be (at least for now) free of that dreadful ball and chain that was the "Butt Pad". I keep all the supplies sitting out in my garage, however, because I feel, honestly, that I probably will have to go back to using them at some point. However, I have been smart in the time I have been off of them, so hopefully the times that I would need them in the future would only be for brief, particularly bad periods. But even now, I feel my left side has some spots that are painful and sensitive. I also have to balance the benefits of the pads with the skin damage from all the adhesive pads/tape.

I apologize for giving you guys all this brain drain. I have posted about this once before, but it was at the end of another thread and I don't think many noticed (or cared lol). Anyway, I wasn't expecting to write all this when I began this post. It just kind of spilled out. I never have had any sort of "audience" to talk to about my "butt pads" and they were/are a major issue in my life.

[tsh3406]

A trophy guy, on 18 November 2011 - 08:28 AM, said:

Tetracyclone, on 18 November 2011 - 04:38 AM, said:

Seriously ATrophy Guy, you have not lived until you undertake your workout with a belt of tight muscles under the rib cage, constricting your diaphragm. Without that, no challenge.

Try it, a leather belt done just right will be almost as good. This can be your Pretender experience.

I can't imagine. But I definitely wouldn't say "no challenge". How about trying to maintain daily functioning, muchless workouts, when you have such atrophy and tissue loss in your buttock area that you lack any protection whatsoever from inflicting damage from having a lack of tissue between bone and sitting surface. Literally skin and bones. Or, more appropriately; bones, skin and clothes.

And then add trying to endure a "pre-contest" bodybuilding diet (and workout) regimen, in which I would lose bodyfat. Most of the fat would be from my upper body, of course, but even some came from my lower body. And that made my atrophy and skinniness even more pronounced. If I hadn't come up with the "butt solution" that I did, I would never have been able to compete in bodybuilding competitions in the first place. If I hadn't come up with that solution, I'd probably have wound up in the hospital long time ago.

My butt would get traumatic wounds, like puncture wounds almost, from all the activity I would endure and surfaces I'd be on and impact it'd take. And I could feel everything. It would hurt like hell and bleed. I never had any sort of pressure=sore issues, I could feel everything, so I never remained in one spot really ever. It simply got uncomfortable. So not to confuse this with decubitus ulcers. Not the same at all. Also I never had any sort of infection.

After I saw dermatologists, wheelchair docs, even plastic surgeons(to discuss the possibility of implanting butt "implants" or cheeks out of saline or silicone) and all of them turned into dead ends, I started to get desperate. So, to make a long story just a tiny bit less long, I started making butt cheeks for myself. Out of adhesive pads, guaze pads and hypoallergenic medical tape (tape that wouldn't irritate my skin with repeated use but would stick). I basically covered and padded each cheek and then taped each side down; and taped them down extensively. That was the only was to keep them in place throughout the day.

I did this for more than six years, every single day. I did not miss a single day. There were some days when even the padding and my meticulous care weren't enough to keep me from getting really scared and very hurt. And visually, it was something kinda shocking to see. I mean, I got used to it of course, seeing as how I had a big mirror up against it for more than an hour every single day for years as I dressed it, but my butt was an unknown thing for me. I was just handling it as I went.

It made life, day to day, a hassle. I couldn't do things spontaneously anymore. Things like going swimming or whatever. Because if I got wet, that meant I got my butt wet too. And that meant I had to re-do my butt cheeks. So if I wanted to ever go swimming, I had to plan it and bring the necessary supplies with me. When i went to the gym, I brought a day's worth of "butt supplies" along with me with my gym stuff too. It was just part of the process. I HATED it, but it was part of my thing.

Finally, a little more than six months ago, I felt good enough to attempt what I hadn't yet done. I went for a good part of the day without the butt pads on. It was just me and my underwear. At first, I honestly felt kind of freaked out. It was weird. But it didn't feel bad. I slowly began going more and more without the pads, and I felt more and more confident without them. Finally came the ultimate test; working out without them. And it came and went fairly well.

It has been SOOOO great to be (at least for now) free of that dreadful ball and chain that was the "Butt Pad". I keep all the supplies sitting out in my garage, however, because I feel, honestly, that I probably will have to go back to using them at some point. However, I have been smart in the time I have been off of them, so hopefully the times that I would need them in the future would only be for brief, particularly bad periods. But even now, I feel my left side has some spots that are painful and sensitive. I also have to balance the benefits of the pads with the skin damage from all the adhesive pads/tape.

I apologize for giving you guys all this brain drain. I have posted about this once before, but it was at the end of another thread and I don't think many noticed (or cared lol). Anyway, I wasn't expecting to write all this when I began this post. It just kind of spilled out. I never have had any sort of "audience" to talk to about my "butt pads" and they were/are a major issue in my life.

You are correct, it is no competition. Yours is by choice, and you have an off season. There are some folk who have severe spasticity, and for one reason or another, don't have the option to change it. They have to deal with it indefinitly. I remember the severity of the regimine when I ran, wrestled or lifted, but it was all at my own option, so I never compaired it to anything than another person went through that had no say in it.

Tim

[Charlie-boi]

I am completely flaccid and worse do not feel! My legs are twigs and up top I'm probly abit heavier than you so yep it looks rediculouse! The only reason I would swap my condition for spasticity is..... That spasticity keeps the peripheral nerves alive by still sending messages even if there not the correct type of messages! This therefore allows you to be a candidate for any possible treatments or cures in the future which may come! I feel my nerves are dead and so would be my chances Of any sort of improvement! I know you spend way to much time with your "butt pads" but count yourself extremely lucky to at least feel them!

[A trophy guy]

I do Charlie, I do. I wasn't trying to say "poor me" with me posts. I do consider myself lucky. I do. And to TSH, I didn't only wear them by "choice" when I was dieting for a show. No, that was only when it was the worst-when I was dieting. I had to do this all the time-regardless of whether I was dieting or not. I had no choice in the matter. And I am not comparing it to anything anyone else going through. Man, this isn't a pissing contest. I just wanted to talk about what I have been going through for so long.

Edited by A trophy guy, 18 November 2011 - 07:14 PM.

[tsh3406]

A trophy guy, on 18 November 2011 - 07:11 PM, said:

I do Charlie, I do. I wasn't trying to say "poor me" with me posts. I do consider myself lucky. I do. And to TSH, I didn't only wear them by "choice" when I was dieting for a show. No, that was only when it was the worst-when I was dieting. I had to do this all the time-regardless of whether I was dieting or not. I had no choice in the matter. And I am not comparing it to anything anyone else going through. Man, this isn't a pissing contest. I just wanted to talk about what I have been going through for so long.

My appologies, it was specifically the pre-comp regimine I was referring to. The severe atrophy is certainly beyond control....

Tim

[paraguy1]

A trophy guy, on 15 November 2011 - 08:11 PM, said:

As someone who doesn't have spasms, I deal with the flipside of the issue. I have extreme atrophy in my lower body, as a result of the flaccidity of my paralysis. Now I have problems and issues as a result of this, I won't go into details here, as they are complicated and take up too much time to explain (and I have detailed some before).

However, I have read many of the woeful tales of spacticity and I realize it is one of the realities many of those who deal with SCI face. I also know that there are positive aspects to the condition as well. Such as increased muscle tone, due to (involuntary) muscle activity below the injury level. This presents many positive correlates.

My question to all of you is this: If you could choose, what would you pick? Would you keep your spasms, in order to keep the muscle tone and size to your lower body (and keep all the benefits that that entails); or would you choose no spasms at all and rather deal with the atrophy in your lower body (and the issues that that brings along).

I am very curious. Because I REALLY hate my skinny legs. I will never wear shorts; aside from a bathing suit. However, I am so glad I don't deal with spasms. Also, my skinny, flaccid legs make transferring and moving (in general) SO easy and fluid, I must acknowledge that as well. I go back and forth as to what I'd like. Also, the muscle tone from spasms helps keep one's bones strong; so that's another plus for spasms.

Give me some feedback. Please.

WOW it seems me and you are alike in even more ways. I have the same problem with my skinny legs and the bone loss as well. and it didnt help when I broke both my femurs and knees from a bad fall. And whats worse at he hospital they said they were gonna put pins in my knees and do surgery but then they said due to the bone loss they did nothing. SO they just let it heal and now I cant bend either knee much past 90 degrees. I do have a stand up chair that is suppose to help with the bone loss. But what do people here do about their skinny legs and bone loss? I have a somewhat famous friend who got hurt playing football and he keeps up some good tone on his legs with the help of some expensive machines but he lives in Denver so I dont see him much.

Edited by paraguy1, 27 November 2011 - 04:59 PM.