66 replies to this topic

[A trophy guy]

I know everyone here is familiar with the issue of AB people asking you if you need help with something when you clearly don't. There is no need for yet another one of those threads. I, for one, enjoy the kindness of others and don't mind these harmless questions.

What I do take issue with, however, is when my polite "no thank you" is completely ignored and I have the "help" forced upon me. Sometimes this can be quite problematic, as it actually can make whatever it is I was going to do more difficult and time-consuming than if I had simply been left alone to do it myself (as I courteously requested).

The main reasons I find this tendency so offensive, aside from the practical difficulties such encounters can create, are the assumptions (whether conscious or sub-conscious) regarding why it is that I refused their help that makes a person decide to ignore that refusal and "help" me anyway. The assumption that I really could use the help, it was only my misplaced sense of pride that was getting in the way. Or that I was just being "polite" when I said no, but I really did want the door held for me (for example).

To me, it shows how some people view disabled individuals as somehow lesser people. If an AB person says "no thanks" to an offer of help, that decline isn't going to just be assumed as a ruse for some personal complex. No, it would be accepted at face-value. Similarly, if I (politely) say "No thanks" to someone who comes up and asks me if I need help with the door, I should have my wishes respected.

There is a genuine, legitimate rationale for me saying "No thanks" when people ask me if I need them to get the door for me. Often times, being the procrastinator I am, I am running late for something. It slows me down to have to wait for a person to open the door, position themselves in a way that isn't an obstruction to me getting through the door and doing so in a way that is acceptable to me (I am not going to roll beneath the outstretched arm-pits of anyone, sorry, just not my thing.

Now this isn't most people but it's not rare either. And it happened TWICE this past week. I'm sorry. Please don't consider this whining or complaining. It's just very irritating and I draw a distinction from between the people who do this and most people who simply want to do a nice thing. I don't find this "good" or "nice", I find it patronizing. I actually think I wrote about this subject here before. If so, I apologize for overdoing it but it's been in my life recently and I'm just venting here.

[DannyR]

I can see where it could be irritating. Maybe if you tried "No Thank You It Is easier If I Do It Myself" Most don't understand never having been in your situation. I don't think they are trying to be patronizing just helpful.

[A trophy guy]

DannyR, on 04 December 2011 - 05:42 AM, said:

I can see where it could be irritating. Maybe if you tried "No Thank You It Is easier If I Do It Myself" Most don't understand never having been in your situation. I don't think they are trying to be patronizing just helpful.

Yeah, I can see trying to be helpful with the initial question of "Can I help you?" But why bother even asking if you have no intention of abiding by the response?

[lavenderthistle]

I suppose walk and don't walk signs also offend you? They offer the helpful suggestion of when crossing might be safest!! Perhaps if you just roll over everyone's toes while telling everyone to kiss off would make you feel much happier and more independent? People like you are the reason my neighbors stood around watching me shovel my drive by myself with my cane. I totally understand the reluctance to help one's fellow man now!

Edited by lavenderthistle, 04 December 2011 - 03:40 PM.

[wheelie182]

Argh, I hate it when people open doors for me, takes twice as long, but its just one of the things humans do. Like the whole "No, after you, ... no after you!" thing, takes longer but it shows humans affection towards others.

[Tinbasher]

I have a whole armoury of responses. "Not today but thank you for the offer", "No if I don't put my chair in a special way I can't get it out", "Thanks for holding the door but now you're in the way", "How do you suppose I manage when you're not around?" All said with a smile of course :-)

I appreciate the kindness but when its based on some thoughtless stereotype it gets wearing.

[Vanessamaee]

I understand if it's like no one is even remotely closr to you. Like sitting in their car in the back of the parking lot kinda deal. But I mean if the person is RIGHT there BY the door, either entering or exiting the building its pretty much common curtosey. Its not just becasue your in a wheelchair. People open up doors for people even when the other person is fully AB. It's a polite gesture, get over it, stop hating te world.

Plus, I believe you or someone else has posted if not this same thread, but remotley close to it before, because I do recall listening to you complain about people getting in your way and having to squeeze your body through with their bodies in the door way etc...

[Ches]

I love when people open doors for me, as I did pre-injury. I'm from the South, its traditional I suppose. If they get in my way somehow it usually turns into a mutual laugh as I declare "watch out for your toes cause I wont!"


There is one fabric store in Dallas that has a big steep ramp inside, regardless you're going to need help but I've only been in with friends..We've had the owners try to butt my friend out of the way and push me up a hill.. I've had to get rude to get them off my chair a time or two, but only after I politely declined their help 2 or 3 times... that's their own fault.

On a cruise last year, there was an overly helpful staff.. God bless em for those who are traveling without the help, but again I had family with me.. Sometimes you really gotta fight those helpful people off insisting "I've got help and they're well trained, if we need you we'll holler for you" n so on.. I headed out to port one day without friends or family, and of course there was a massive downhill ramp, the staff INSISTED they help me down it so they wanted me to face forward as they SLOWLY rolled down.. thats like worse case scenario for us.. let me haul ass down OR go backwards with assistance.. but dont make me feel like I'm going to fall out face forward for 20 feet. People only see the wheelchair and not our individual capabilities, so yeah sometimes its definitely more trouble to allow the help..but I feel the right thing to do is to inform them of what IS/ISNT helpful and move on. No big deal.

[Zack]

I to have politely said "No Thank you" too many times!
While pushing up the wheelchair cut out in the sidewalk I kindly said "No Thank you" to an older man who said "Don't be silly, I'll help you" He put his hands on my lower shoulders unexpectedly, and pushed. He nearly pushed me out of the chair. I wanted to curse so loud. He freaking scared the Hell out of me.

The road to Hell is paved with good intentions!

[A trophy guy]

Vanessamaee, on 04 December 2011 - 05:11 PM, said:

I understand if it's like no one is even remotely closr to you. Like sitting in their car in the back of the parking lot kinda deal. But I mean if the person is RIGHT there BY the door, either entering or exiting the building its pretty much common curtosey. Its not just becasue your in a wheelchair. People open up doors for people even when the other person is fully AB. It's a polite gesture, get over it, stop hating te world.

Plus, I believe you or someone else has posted if not this same thread, but remotley close to it before, because I do recall listening to you complain about people getting in your way and having to squeeze your body through with their bodies in the door way etc...

SMH (I didn't mean to "rep" this)

Edited by A trophy guy, 04 December 2011 - 07:44 PM.

[A trophy guy]

lavenderthistle, on 04 December 2011 - 03:37 PM, said:

I suppose walk and don't walk signs also offend you? They offer the helpful suggestion of when crossing might be safest!! Perhaps if you just roll over everyone's toes while telling everyone to kiss off would make you feel much happier and more independent? People like you are the reason my neighbors stood around watching me shovel my drive by myself with my cane. I totally understand the reluctance to help one's fellow man now!

Ugh. Did you even read my OP??? I appreciate and enjoy the kindness of others, and this includes being asked if I need help with the door. I never answer these queries with any sort of attitude or nastiness, far from it. I always am friendly and polite. And when common courtesy dictates, such as when someone is just passing through a door ahead of me, I have absolutely no issue with a door being held for me. I actually would be a bit off-put if someone just let the door slam after them after going through a doorway if I was right behind them. But again, that is common courtesy.

MY issue is when I have my direct wishes ignored. Pretty simple. You understand "the reluctance to help one's fellow man" now because I have a desire to have my wishes respected? That's messed up lady.

[Irish Wheelz]

I'm just wondering, If yall think back to before you were sci, Have you ever held a door open for a person with a disability. It's not so bad being helped out, a common "no thank you" would suffice when you don't need help. I for one would rather bump into nice people than people who tends to be rude.

[A trophy guy]

Irish Wheelz, on 04 December 2011 - 10:33 PM, said:

I'm just wondering, If yall think back to before you were sci, Have you ever held a door open for a person with a disability. It's not so bad being helped out, a common "no thank you" would suffice when you don't need help. I for one would rather bump into nice people than people who tends to be rude.

Right, the whole point of this thread is those people for whom that common "no thank you" does NOT suffice.

A lot of people sure don't seem to read threads before posting in them.

[A trophy guy]

lavenderthistle, on 04 December 2011 - 03:37 PM, said:

I suppose walk and don't walk signs also offend you? They offer the helpful suggestion of when crossing might be safest!! Perhaps if you just roll over everyone's toes while telling everyone to kiss off would make you feel much happier and more independent? People like you are the reason my neighbors stood around watching me shovel my drive by myself with my cane. I totally understand the reluctance to help one's fellow man now!

IrishWheelz, tell me, how in the world can you agree with post? She is conflating what I am saying here with saying that I have a problem with people offering help. Are you conflating these things as well???

[lavenderthistle]

Nope "she" is not conflating anything. For 2 paragraphs you focused on issues with doors. I merely pointed out...perhaps not so clearly....that you do seem to have rather a large and heavy chip on your shoulder.

You mistake me for a lady, but a lady would never stoop to this type of defense. She wouldn't have to, because a lady would never have dignified the OP with an answer but merely glanced and moved along when the OP'er has such a penchant for arguing with every opposing opinion.

[A trophy guy]

lavenderthistle, on 04 December 2011 - 11:33 PM, said:

Nope "she" is not conflating anything. For 2 paragraphs you focused on issues with doors. I merely pointed out...perhaps not so clearly....that you do seem to have rather a large and heavy chip on your shoulder.

You mistake me for a lady, but a lady would never stoop to this type of defense. She wouldn't have to, because a lady would never have dignified the OP with an answer but merely glanced and moved along when the OP'er has such a penchant for arguing with every opposing opinion.

You were most definitely conflating things. Just because you say you weren't changes nothing about the reality of the matter. I focused on "doors" because it was the easiest example to use showing how people ignored my pleas to not "help" and instead forced that help upon me. You did not give an opinion, one way or another, on the subject at hand discussed in the OP. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT??? You gave your opinion of ME.

If you had given an opinion of the subject matter of the OP, it would have been regarding the issue of AB's ignoring the direct wishes of the disabled people they are supposedly trying to help by forcing their help upon them.

And I apologize for being polite and referring to you as a lady. What was I thinking???

[greybeard]

how I miss that Negative button.


Ah! That feels so much better now I've been able to (-) the above post.

Edited by greybeard, 05 December 2011 - 10:27 PM.

[Vanessamaee]

ATG, you remind me of an immature high school boy who thinks he knows everything but yet acts the maturity of a 5 year old. congratulations.

[A trophy guy]

Vanessamaee, on 05 December 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

ATG, you remind me of an immature high school boy who thinks he knows everything but yet acts the maturity of a 5 year old. congratulations.

Rather than just spew out that vile stuff, would you please explain why exactly you are saying that in this thread? I find it slightly ironic that many people who like to say I'm so immature and whatnot are also the ones who are engaging in name-calling and use of inappropriate language (not just you). I have done nothing but attempt to keep the conversation in this thread focused on the topic OF the thread. That's IT.

Edited by A trophy guy, 05 December 2011 - 12:15 AM.

[A trophy guy]

greybeard, on 04 December 2011 - 11:49 PM, said:

how I miss that Negative button.

Hey there GB! It's been awhile since you dropped by to insert one of your snide remarks in one of my threads, I almost forgot about you (almost, darn).

[Vanessamaee]

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:12 AM, said:

Vanessamaee, on 05 December 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

ATG, you remind me of an immature high school boy who thinks he knows everything but yet acts the maturity of a 5 year old. congratulations.

Rather than just spew out that vile stuff, would you please explain why exactly you are saying that in this thread? I find it slightly ironic that many people who like to say I'm so immature and whatnot are also the ones who are engaging in name-calling and use of inappropriate language (not just you). I have done nothing but attempt to keep the conversation in this thread focused on the topic OF the thread. That's IT.

we've been over this before. You start a thread. You ask for opinions. You get opinions but feel the need to defend yourself. Also, I still dont understand this thread. If someone holds the door for you... Do you say "no thank you" expecting them to close the door and watch you struggle getting it open? Common courtesy is a wonderful thing. Im hoping you dont live in the south becuase your life would be a living hell with southern hospitality.

[Ratticis]

Maybe your topics would better stay on topic id you didn't feel the need to respond to every single comment, opinion, "snide remnark", ect in a vain attempt to prop up your overinflated ego

[A trophy guy]

Vanessamaee, on 05 December 2011 - 12:25 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:12 AM, said:

Vanessamaee, on 05 December 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

ATG, you remind me of an immature high school boy who thinks he knows everything but yet acts the maturity of a 5 year old. congratulations.

Rather than just spew out that vile stuff, would you please explain why exactly you are saying that in this thread? I find it slightly ironic that many people who like to say I'm so immature and whatnot are also the ones who are engaging in name-calling and use of inappropriate language (not just you). I have done nothing but attempt to keep the conversation in this thread focused on the topic OF the thread. That's IT.

we've been over this before. You start a thread. You ask for opinions. You get opinions but feel the need to defend yourself. Also, I still dont understand this thread. If someone holds the door for you... Do you say "no thank you" expecting them to close the door and watch you struggle getting it open? Common courtesy is a wonderful thing. Im hoping you dont live in the south becuase your life would be a living hell with southern hospitality.

People sure have a difficult time (you included) comprehending simple concepts. I want opinions to the topic of the OP. I don't want opinions of ME. And to ease your confusion I'll say it again, I have a problem when a person ASKS me if I need help with something (for discussion purposes I used the example of opening a door) and then, despite my polite decline, that person goes ahead and forces that "help" on me anyway (in the case of this discussion it would be opening the door after I said "no thanks"). Are we clear now? I am NOT talking about a situation where a person already has opened the door for me. I'm talking about a situation where they ask first, then ignore my response and open the door.

Ratticis, on 05 December 2011 - 12:29 AM, said:

Maybe your topics would better stay on topic id you didn't feel the need to respond to every single comment, opinion, "snide remnark", ect in a vain attempt to prop up your overinflated ego

I am going to disregard your silly insult you threw in there at the end, and actually agree with you here. I only respond to the unrelated posts like I do in an attempt to curtail any tangential convos. But you are probably right, I need to just ignore the bullsquat.

[Vanessamaee]

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:32 AM, said:

Vanessamaee, on 05 December 2011 - 12:25 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:12 AM, said:

Vanessamaee, on 05 December 2011 - 12:07 AM, said:

ATG, you remind me of an immature high school boy who thinks he knows everything but yet acts the maturity of a 5 year old. congratulations.

Rather than just spew out that vile stuff, would you please explain why exactly you are saying that in this thread? I find it slightly ironic that many people who like to say I'm so immature and whatnot are also the ones who are engaging in name-calling and use of inappropriate language (not just you). I have done nothing but attempt to keep the conversation in this thread focused on the topic OF the thread. That's IT.

we've been over this before. You start a thread. You ask for opinions. You get opinions but feel the need to defend yourself. Also, I still dont understand this thread. If someone holds the door for you... Do you say "no thank you" expecting them to close the door and watch you struggle getting it open? Common courtesy is a wonderful thing. Im hoping you dont live in the south becuase your life would be a living hell with southern hospitality.

People sure have a difficult time (you included) comprehending simple concepts. I want opinions to the topic of the OP. I don't want opinions of ME. And to ease your confusion I'll say it again, I have a problem when a person ASKS me if I need help with something (for discussion purposes I used the example of opening a door) and then, despite my polite decline, that person goes ahead and forces that "help" on me anyway (in the case of this discussion it would be opening the door after I said "no thanks"). Are we clear now? I am NOT talking about a situation where a person already has opened the door for me. I'm talking about a situation where they ask first, then ignore my response and open the door.

A door is a terrible example then. When has anyone offered to help you with a door, that wasnt already at the door. Maybe if youre getting in your car and someone asks if you need help loading your wheelchair? thatd be a better example, however I cant say that when I say no thank you, anyone has grabbed my wheelchair and done it regardless... I just dont understand this repeated thread

[bongorum]

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:23 AM, said:

greybeard, on 04 December 2011 - 11:49 PM, said:

how I miss that Negative button.

Hey there GB! It's been awhile since you dropped by to insert one of your snide remarks in one of my threads, I almost forgot about you (almost, darn).

A friendly word of advice: those 'snide' remarks carry a lot of weight here. GB is one bear I wouldn't go poking if I were you.

[KayDub]

First issue- not wanting help from people when they offer it. When you say no thanks, they still insist. It's just the way of the world I suppose. AB or disabled, people generally try to be nice to others. It'd be one thing if they insisted on helping you transfer into your car, but just opening a door? It's just a nice thing to do. And if the person being in the way is such a huge inconvinience, then you can always stop and explain to them exactly why their helping you is hindering you. But I think that would take even more time and be an even bigger inconvience than having to squeeze around them. It also might make them think twice about helping someone in need in the future and make them feel about about trying to be nice and helpful. No one wants that. But if it really is that big of a deal to you that people still insist, then that's what you'll have to do.

Second issue- I notice you keep alluding to the idea that people help disabled people because they think we're in need of it. And if we refuse they don't take it as a sign of our empowerment or ability to do something on our own but they see it as us overcompensating for our disability by pretending we don't need help and we're just deluding ourselves. All I have to say about that is wow... it seems like quite an analysis of a simple action people have been taught to do since childhood, for AB or disabled folks, just to be polite. I'm just shocked that you're able to get all that out of people's reaction to you refusing their help. If you really are polite like you say you are in your refusal (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here) and people still insist, they're just being nice. If they get upset it might be because you're coming across rude (even if you don't mean to). Something neutral like opening a door in society as a whole is not seen as having alterior motives. It's not implying men are better than women or that disabled people can't do anything. It really is just a polite thing to do. I hold the door open for AB folks all the time. They're a little surprised I can do it, but that's fine, some people in chairs can't and I don't take their reaction as a deep seeded insult about my abilities.

I still can't fathom why people being polite upsets you so much. :shrugs: I'm just wondering if someone once came down on you for being disabled as they tried to help you or if you're just having problems with your own self confidence and image in public, particularly with AB. I don't want to play arm chair psychologist but a lot of your posts are about how you look with your legs, how AB women do or don't find your attractive, how AB people treat you as a disabled person in public, how you work out, etc. That's absolutely fine, you just seem to be really really concerned with your image or how AB people think of you. We all are to some extent, especially those of us in chairs. We all want to be seen as competent and attractive. It just seems like you struggle with feeling that way with being in a chair and you pass the blame off on AB people for treating you wrong. If it's gotten to the point where you think every time someone tries to be nice to you, you interpret it as them patronising you for your disability, you might want to rethink it. Those are just my thoughts on things, please don't take them as a shot against you.

Edited by KayDub, 05 December 2011 - 12:45 AM.

[greybeard]

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

People sure have a difficult time (you included) comprehending simple concepts.

........And you seem to have difficulty understanding what this forum is all about. This is not your own personal Blog.

If you want to Blog, go set one up. Then you can complain to your hearts content about how every body in the world is always so mean to you. Best of all you can delete any comments you don't like. Try it. I'm sure you would just love it.

[Irish Wheelz]

greybeard, on 05 December 2011 - 12:45 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:35 AM, said:

People sure have a difficult time (you included) comprehending simple concepts.

........And you seem to have difficulty understanding what this forum is all about. This is not your own personal Blog.

If you want to Blog, go set one up. Then you can complain to your hearts content about how every body in the world is always so mean to you. Best of all you can delete any comments you don't like. Try it. I'm sure you would just love it.

Wise words

[A trophy guy]

KayDub, on 05 December 2011 - 12:43 AM, said:

First issue- not wanting help from people when they offer it. When you say no thanks, they still insist. It's just the way of the world I suppose. AB or disabled, people generally try to be nice to others. It'd be one thing if they insisted on helping you transfer into your car, but just opening a door? It's just a nice thing to do. And if the person being in the way is such a huge inconvinience, then you can always stop and explain to them exactly why their helping you is hindering you. But I think that would take even more time and be an even bigger inconvience than having to squeeze around them. It also might make them think twice about helping someone in need in the future and make them feel about about trying to be nice and helpful. No one wants that. But if it really is that big of a deal to you that people still insist, then that's what you'll have to do.

Second issue- I notice you keep alluding to the idea that people help disabled people because they think we're in need of it. And if we refuse they don't take it as a sign of our empowerment or ability to do something on our own but they see it as us overcompensating for our disability by pretending we don't need help and we're just deluding ourselves. All I have to say about that is wow... it seems like quite an analysis of a simple action people have been taught to do since childhood, for AB or disabled folks, just to be polite. I'm just shocked that you're able to get all that out of people's reaction to you refusing their help. If you really are polite like you say you are in your refusal (and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt here) and people still insist, they're just being nice. If they get upset it might be because you're coming across rude (even if you don't mean to). Something neutral like opening a door in society as a whole is not seen as having alterior motives. It's not implying men are better than women or that disabled people can't do anything. It really is just a polite thing to do. I hold the door open for AB folks all the time. They're a little surprised I can do it, but that's fine, some people in chairs can't and I don't take their reaction as a deep seeded insult about my abilities.

I still can't fathom why people being polite upsets you so much. :shrugs: I'm just wondering if someone once came down on you for being disabled as they tried to help you or if you're just having problems with your own self confidence and image in public, particularly with AB. I don't want to play arm chair psychologist but a lot of your posts are about how you look with your legs, how AB women do or don't find your attractive, how AB people treat you as a disabled person in public, how you work out, etc. That's absolutely fine, you just seem to be really really concerned with your image or how AB people think of you. We all are to some extent, especially those of us in chairs. We all want to be seen as competent and attractive. It just seems like you struggle with feeling that way with being in a chair and you pass the blame off on AB people for treating you wrong. If it's gotten to the point where you think every time someone tries to be nice to you, you interpret it as them patronising you for your disability, you might want to rethink it. Those are just my thoughts on things, please don't take them as a shot against you.

How can I make this any more clear? I have no issue with people being polite. I really don't. I just don't see it as being polite when I have my desires flatly ignored and have "assistance" thrust on me. Now common courtesy is an entirely different story. If an AB is right near a door that I am approaching, I would find it nice and I would appreciate it if that person held the door for me. I dont have to "do it myself" every time I go through a door.

But there ARE times when I would much rather do it myself, and when doing it myself would actually make things easier for me. And isn't that why people do things for disabled people? To make their day easier? My ONLY issue is one of respect. I want my wishes to be respected when a person asks me if I need help. Maybe I shouldn't have used the example of opening a door. Perhaps using the example of getting my wheelchair into my car would have been better.

When I transfer into my car, I open my suicide door to pull my chair in the backseat. I have this process down to a science. I have every little move down pat, I could do it with my eyes closed. There is a very particular way in which the chair needs to be sitting and set up, along with a certain way it gets pulled into the car (rather than pushed) to avoid any damage to the car itself (the chair just barely fits, even with the handles cut off). So when someone sees me getting into my car, and asks me if I need help, I say no thanks with very good reason. Several times this plea has gone ignored, and the person takes it upon themselves to just grab my chair and try stuffing it in the backseat; often putting the brakes on in order to do this. Now, in addition to scraping up my car, this makes getting the chair out of my car much more of a hassle because I then have to lean way back into the back seat and take the brakes off so I can then pull the chair out again.

Now I have a problem when people ignore my wishes and force help upon me.

Also, when did I talk about what girls do and don't find me attractive?? What are you talking about? And how ABs think of me? WHat? No one could care less about that, trust me. LOL

Edited by A trophy guy, 05 December 2011 - 01:00 AM.

[A trophy guy]

bongorum, on 05 December 2011 - 12:38 AM, said:

A trophy guy, on 05 December 2011 - 12:23 AM, said:

greybeard, on 04 December 2011 - 11:49 PM, said:

how I miss that Negative button.

Hey there GB! It's been awhile since you dropped by to insert one of your snide remarks in one of my threads, I almost forgot about you (almost, darn).

A friendly word of advice: those 'snide' remarks carry a lot of weight here. GB is one bear I wouldn't go poking if I were you.

What in the world does that mean??? GB does nothing but spew mindless snide crap. IMO, he is like an annoying gnat buzzing at the dinnertable.

I want people NOT to respond as if I wrote in my OP that I "didn't like it when people offered me help". Also I want people NOT to respond as if I wrote in my OP "what is your opinion of A trophy guy?"

Differing opinions as to the subject in the OP, I am ALL FOR IT. Geez people, get with it.