22 replies to this topic

[strngink]

so i just wanted to know is it just me or does ever incomplete paraplegic get very bad pains in their legs an bones?im 1yr. post an if i dont have my pain pills its like the accident just happen today i cant move my bottom hurts from sitting i cant lay down idk its driving me crazy...i have gained back alot of movement but when im hurting like this its like i havent gained anything because i cant really move my body..so plz share your thoughts with me an others thank you..an happy holidays

[dreamerr]

Extreme pain and 5 years post. I guess that isn't what you wanted to hear. I take no pain killers because it is nerve pain and they don't work. I have to be pretty bad to take them and that is just so I can pass out and sleep. I have tried the nerve blockers like neurotin but for me they aren't good but most like it. You will eventually build up a tolerance to the pain at least I did. I can deal with it up to a level of extreme but beyond that I am in trouble.

[strngink]

dreamerr, on 06 December 2011 - 12:25 AM, said:

Extreme pain and 5 years post. I guess that isn't what you wanted to hear. I take no pain killers because it is nerve pain and they don't work. I have to be pretty bad to take them and that is just so I can pass out and sleep. I have tried the nerve blockers like neurotin but for me they aren't good but most like it. You will eventually build up a tolerance to the pain at least I did. I can deal with it up to a level of extreme but beyond that I am in trouble.

hey thanx an well i figured thats what i would hear lol..an so awsome u dont take pain pills i take methadaone and vicodins the methadone takes the nerve pain away with in 30 mins..does really good job however i always wondered if i dont take the pills because i never took pills in my life b4 the injury would i beable to move around it pretty bad with me im sure you know exactaully what i mean thanx so much for ur comment..takecare

[hannibal]

I experience pain in different places, but I take Motrin 600mg, and it works better for me than the higher pain meds. Its also better because I dont have to deal with all the side effects of those medications

[strngink]

hannibal, on 06 December 2011 - 12:43 AM, said:

I experience pain in different places, but I take Motrin 600mg, and it works better for me than the higher pain meds. Its also better because I dont have to deal with all the side effects of those medications

yeah i was told to take those also idk they sometimes help an sometimes dont lol..but thanx for the comment..im just really tryin away to get used to it because i got a kafo an im learning how to use the arm crutches but when i got this pain i cant move my pt doc said im going to have to get used to walking on my foot with the numb pins an needles..just really hurts do u have movement below injury?if u dont mind me asking..

[harlton]

Hi

I was injuryed in 1990, horrible nerve pain for yrs, a lot because I refused to take meds and when I did I took them improperly. I tried all the tramodol pero whatevers, horrible stuff, Then they put me on Diluadid 4 x/day, and for the first time in a long time I could manage.
The side effects are few for me a soon after none, Pain and cold burning bearable. they added restoril for sleep, which is really important, I helped myself with some bodybuilding suplements, and started excercising again. It's important to get on the pain as soon as you feel it starting, not man it out till you cannot take anymore, that was my mistake for along time. I was told by a very good pain dr that it takes 4x the amount of medication to remove pain as it does to prevent it.
When they started me on gabaphentin, I was able to reduce the dilaudid from 16mg 4 x/day to 4mg x/day plus the gaba level that worked, I've been on dilaudid for 20yrs + and gabphentin for 10+ . They only recently needed to increase it because I'm turning into an old fart, and I was over doing it knowingly.

Finding a good multi approach pain Dr is the hardest, there's a lot of arseholes out there. Find something that works get as fit as you can and stay as fit as you can.
you can find a nearly normal life, you would belive the shit, I,ve done.

all the best

[strngink]

harlton, on 06 December 2011 - 01:27 AM, said:

Hi

I was injuryed in 1990, horrible nerve pain for yrs, a lot because I refused to take meds and when I did I took them improperly. I tried all the tramodol pero whatevers, horrible stuff, Then they put me on Diluadid 4 x/day, and for the first time in a long time I could manage.
The side effects are few for me a soon after none, Pain and cold burning bearable. they added restoril for sleep, which is really important, I helped myself with some bodybuilding suplements, and started excercising again. It's important to get on the pain as soon as you feel it starting, not man it out till you cannot take anymore, that was my mistake for along time. I was told by a very good pain dr that it takes 4x the amount of medication to remove pain as it does to prevent it.
When they started me on gabaphentin, I was able to reduce the dilaudid from 16mg 4 x/day to 4mg x/day plus the gaba level that worked, I've been on dilaudid for 20yrs + and gabphentin for 10+ . They only recently needed to increase it because I'm turning into an old fart, and I was over doing it knowingly.

Finding a good multi approach pain Dr is the hardest, there's a lot of arseholes out there. Find something that works get as fit as you can and stay as fit as you can.
you can find a nearly normal life, you would belive the shit, I,ve done.

all the best

seriously thanx yeah i look at it like well why wait an put myself through hell when i dont have to some ppl dont like that i take methadone but it dont effect me like other falling out asleep it just takes the pain off the top so i could be happy im 31 with 3 children an ive takin my injury pretty will i only get down when im really hurting but as of rightnow my doctors are giving me trouble on giving me my meds i got to go tomorrow to see what happens but i believe ill be switching docs soon..thanx so much for ur comment

harlton, on 06 December 2011 - 01:27 AM, said:

Hi

I was injuryed in 1990, horrible nerve pain for yrs, a lot because I refused to take meds and when I did I took them improperly. I tried all the tramodol pero whatevers, horrible stuff, Then they put me on Diluadid 4 x/day, and for the first time in a long time I could manage.
The side effects are few for me a soon after none, Pain and cold burning bearable. they added restoril for sleep, which is really important, I helped myself with some bodybuilding suplements, and started excercising again. It's important to get on the pain as soon as you feel it starting, not man it out till you cannot take anymore, that was my mistake for along time. I was told by a very good pain dr that it takes 4x the amount of medication to remove pain as it does to prevent it.
When they started me on gabaphentin, I was able to reduce the dilaudid from 16mg 4 x/day to 4mg x/day plus the gaba level that worked, I've been on dilaudid for 20yrs + and gabphentin for 10+ . They only recently needed to increase it because I'm turning into an old fart, and I was over doing it knowingly.

Finding a good multi approach pain Dr is the hardest, there's a lot of arseholes out there. Find something that works get as fit as you can and stay as fit as you can.
you can find a nearly normal life, you would belive the shit, I,ve done.

all the best

hey if u dont mind i was wondering if maybe u knew anything about my next question i just recently asked the doc for the pill to help with sex do u know if pain pills mess up the way its supposed to help ones self?thanx again

[wheeliebear75]

Also hurt in 1990 & also have pretty bad pain. I use a variety of things; heating pad, hot soak shower/tub, T.E.N.S. unit, distraction, meditation, yoga/stretching, massage, marijuana, THEN the Rx (Percocet, Flexarill, Phenergan, Valium).

[strngink]

wheeliebear75, on 06 December 2011 - 02:55 AM, said:

Also hurt in 1990 & also have pretty bad pain. I use a variety of things; heating pad, hot soak shower/tub, T.E.N.S. unit, distraction, meditation, yoga/stretching, massage, marijuana, THEN the Rx (Percocet, Flexarill, Phenergan, Valium).

i see it says ur an incomplete if u dont mind could u tell me what returned to you if anything an how long itook u to get where you are on the 30th i made my 1yr. i feel im taking everything pretty well considering the situation..

[lavenderthistle]

I'm a walking incomplete. I play each day/ hour by ear.

I guess I'm in the stubborn head in the sand category with pain. I ignore as much as I can. I put pain in mental boxes and deal with it later if need be. (At night...hello insomnia)

I try to stay with natural remedies during the day. I tend to build up tolerances for things. With herbals I can change a few things and not have as much worry of that.

My worst enemy is the nerve pain. All of mine tends to bloom at night.

It seems like you have pain all day. Do you go to a pain management doctor? ( if you said so, I missed it) I ask because pain management may be of more use.

A TENS unit could be a good thing. Bone pain is no fun.

[strngink]

lavenderthistle, on 06 December 2011 - 03:33 AM, said:

I'm a walking incomplete. I play each day/ hour by ear.

I guess I'm in the stubborn head in the sand category with pain. I ignore as much as I can. I put pain in mental boxes and deal with it later if need be. (At night...hello insomnia)

I try to stay with natural remedies during the day. I tend to build up tolerances for things. With herbals I can change a few things and not have as much worry of that.

My worst enemy is the nerve pain. All of mine tends to bloom at night.

It seems like you have pain all day. Do you go to a pain management doctor? ( if you said so, I missed it) I ask because pain management may be of more use.

A TENS unit could be a good thing. Bone pain is no fun.

wow ur lucky yeah i take pain meds but doctor is playing games right i walk with 1kafo brace on left an 2arm crutches 176ft. is the most ive walked i get tired fast its hard..thanx for writting to me ,leaving a comment

[Edinburgh Colin]

I'm 30 months out and I get bad pain in my feet, lower left leg and like you in my butt. The butt pain is only in the upper half of my buttocks, i.e. the bits that are slightly above the cushion. I have a Jay Easy and the Gel pad is good but it pushes that part of my skin and flesh that remains up and I think that is what causes the problem.
My feet calm down a little if I rub them but it comes back with a vengeance and the skin on the back of my butt feels like it has been grated off and it's red raw.

I used to have severe burning in my left thigh and left foot but that seems to have gone to be replaced by raw feelings in my feet and butt as I said.

The real kicker is that when I was in rehab and the first 6 months I was out of hospital my feet felt like they were encased in warm sand and it was magic! Just a distant memory now.

EC

[strngink]

Edinburgh Colin, on 06 December 2011 - 04:42 AM, said:

I'm 30 months out and I get bad pain in my feet, lower left leg and like you in my butt. The butt pain is only in the upper half of my buttocks, i.e. the bits that are slightly above the cushion. I have a Jay Easy and the Gel pad is good but it pushes that part of my skin and flesh that remains up and I think that is what causes the problem.
My feet calm down a little if I rub them but it comes back with a vengeance and the skin on the back of my butt feels like it has been grated off and it's red raw.

I used to have severe burning in my left thigh and left foot but that seems to have gone to be replaced by raw feelings in my feet and butt as I said.

The real kicker is that when I was in rehab and the first 6 months I was out of hospital my feet felt like they were encased in warm sand and it was magic! Just a distant memory now.

EC

lol..oh how i know what u mean lol..but for me my right buttocks came back but the left side from hip to feet used to do that magic thing u speak of but nomore lol..no when my muscles stiff up it feels like the bone is gonna come right through whe im sitting but hey thank u everyone i just like to hear what other ppl do so maybe i could try it if i havent already but yeah i sure do miss that magic however i could feel more now but it hurts more now to guess thats the price i have to pay huh?

[wheeliebear75]

For me it's a pushing/heaviness in my spine like a kid a bit too heavy is trying to get a piggy back ride (this is ONLY relieved by laying down). There is also some burning sensations when the weather is bad in my neck & back but like I said it is very much weather related. The nerve pain? It feels like I'm wearing stockings that are too tight; a TOO TIGHT band around the waist @ L2 where I broke my back, below that the whole lower 1/2 feels kinda cold (that's the message they send to my brain no matter how warm the meat is....though they do tend to get ICE COLD most of the time) but the buttocks & bottoms of the feet are THE worst....like hot pins & needles jabbing their way to try & take out a sample of bone-marrow or something.

The 1st thing to return was that when the nurses would cath me I could sort of squeeze my stomach muscles & it would sometimes make the lower abs also push & I could "push" the urine out a bit faster than just gravity. I'd say the next thing was I don't remember wiggling a toe...what I remember was being able not to lift my legs but I could make them jiggle if I tried kicking. And I remember being able to make the foot go from side to side (heel staying on the bed but the upper 1/2 going from left to right...swinging the TOES).

When they 1st started getting me to stand (not the standing frame) with a....I think it's called a "Z-frame"? It's a walker but it's not like the old lady style it's MUCH taller & you have your arms higher up & they strap the arms with Velcro to it. And at 1st I could only stand....NOT pick up my feet. So they (PTs) started off with moving my feet forward FOR me. I probably would have gotten a quicker start on re-learning to walk but I also had dislocated my neck & some other vertebra so there was a TON of pulled muscles in my back & neck. We progressed on to a smaller walker but it still had the arms bent & holding the arms in an "L" shape just lower than before. When I 1st started standing/walking I could barely tell if the ground was actually there or not....it was TRULY like walking on stilts.

After working with PT we then went to granny style walker with wheels on all 4 points. When I went to forearm crutches at 1st my balance was still so they put quad-cane tips on the bottoms to give me better balance. Aside from the added balance they do make it so the crutches don't keep falling over at least....kinda miss that part. LOL I did get to walking with regular forearm crutches for short distances. The "walking" I do probably isn't a "good way" since IT has caused secondary peripheral nerve damage to the legs....but I use the hips to swing my legs forward in a sort of "John Wayne" style. AGAIN I SAY....THIS WAS A NON-GOOD WAY of doing it(you did ask)! In my younger days when I had it in me to just use my upper body to swing my lower 1/2 forward I could go a couple blocks but that was with a number of resting points about every 30-50ft! NOW I'm able to do about 50-100ft on a good day...can't do too many feet of the swing method (bad left shoulder).

The motor & sensory signals started coming back though I've never gotten back FULL use or sensation it has come back for the most part. I can tell that I'm being touched & if it is dull or sharp but can't tell if I'm being touched by a finger or an eraser. And although I can tell if the ground is sold under my feet & usually tell if it is squishy like grass or hard like concrete, but can NOT tell if something like a garden hose or a plumb(fell off a friend's porch cuz of a wayward plumb) is under my foot. So it is still somewhat like walking on stilts just not quite as bad.

If I sit on the floor on my butt I can use my legs to push my butt towards what ever is behind me but not towards what is ahead of me. And if I crawl on my hands & knees....I can crawl forward & use the hips like I do when I walk to drag the legs forward but to crawl backwards is just me pushing myself backwards sliding on my knees.

It was around the 7mo mark that I started to be able to use the "Z-frame" AND when I started to be able to use the hips to lift the legs....the reason I remember THAT was #1 it was "our Christmas present" that year + it's pretty hard to forget when my Mom said she didn't remember crying the 1st time I learned to walk(now I'M in tears....ah memories....the good the bad & the ugly.)

[strngink]

wheeliebear75, on 06 December 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

For me it's a pushing/heaviness in my spine like a kid a bit too heavy is trying to get a piggy back ride (this is ONLY relieved by laying down). There is also some burning sensations when the weather is bad in my neck & back but like I said it is very much weather related. The nerve pain? It feels like I'm wearing stockings that are too tight; a TOO TIGHT band around the waist @ L2 where I broke my back, below that the whole lower 1/2 feels kinda cold (that's the message they send to my brain no matter how warm the meat is....though they do tend to get ICE COLD most of the time) but the buttocks & bottoms of the feet are THE worst....like hot pins & needles jabbing their way to try & take out a sample of bone-marrow or something.

The 1st thing to return was that when the nurses would cath me I could sort of squeeze my stomach muscles & it would sometimes make the lower abs also push & I could "push" the urine out a bit faster than just gravity. I'd say the next thing was I don't remember wiggling a toe...what I remember was being able not to lift my legs but I could make them jiggle if I tried kicking. And I remember being able to make the foot go from side to side (heel staying on the bed but the upper 1/2 going from left to right...swinging the TOES).

When they 1st started getting me to stand (not the standing frame) with a....I think it's called a "Z-frame"? It's a walker but it's not like the old lady style it's MUCH taller & you have your arms higher up & they strap the arms with Velcro to it. And at 1st I could only stand....NOT pick up my feet. So they (PTs) started off with moving my feet forward FOR me. I probably would have gotten a quicker start on re-learning to walk but I also had dislocated my neck & some other vertebra so there was a TON of pulled muscles in my back & neck. We progressed on to a smaller walker but it still had the arms bent & holding the arms in an "L" shape just lower than before. When I 1st started standing/walking I could barely tell if the ground was actually there or not....it was TRULY like walking on stilts.

After working with PT we then went to granny style walker with wheels on all 4 points. When I went to forearm crutches at 1st my balance was still so they put quad-cane tips on the bottoms to give me better balance. Aside from the added balance they do make it so the crutches don't keep falling over at least....kinda miss that part. LOL I did get to walking with regular forearm crutches for short distances. The "walking" I do probably isn't a "good way" since IT has caused secondary peripheral nerve damage to the legs....but I use the hips to swing my legs forward in a sort of "John Wayne" style. AGAIN I SAY....THIS WAS A NON-GOOD WAY of doing it(you did ask)! In my younger days when I had it in me to just use my upper body to swing my lower 1/2 forward I could go a couple blocks but that was with a number of resting points about every 30-50ft! NOW I'm able to do about 50-100ft on a good day...can't do too many feet of the swing method (bad left shoulder).

The motor & sensory signals started coming back though I've never gotten back FULL use or sensation it has come back for the most part. I can tell that I'm being touched & if it is dull or sharp but can't tell if I'm being touched by a finger or an eraser. And although I can tell if the ground is sold under my feet & usually tell if it is squishy like grass or hard like concrete, but can NOT tell if something like a garden hose or a plumb(fell off a friend's porch cuz of a wayward plumb) is under my foot. So it is still somewhat like walking on stilts just not quite as bad.

If I sit on the floor on my butt I can use my legs to push my butt towards what ever is behind me but not towards what is ahead of me. And if I crawl on my hands & knees....I can crawl forward & use the hips like I do when I walk to drag the legs forward but to crawl backwards is just me pushing myself backwards sliding on my knees.

It was around the 7mo mark that I started to be able to use the "Z-frame" AND when I started to be able to use the hips to lift the legs....the reason I remember THAT was #1 it was "our Christmas present" that year + it's pretty hard to forget when my Mom said she didn't remember crying the 1st time I learned to walk(now I'M in tears....ah memories....the good the bad & the ugly.)

aww such an awsome story yeah ill never give up u got more back then i did in this ammount of time but thats ok ima just keep pushing an again thank u so very much for sharing ur story an recovery thanx

[hannibal]

strngink, on 06 December 2011 - 12:58 AM, said:

hannibal, on 06 December 2011 - 12:43 AM, said:

I experience pain in different places, but I take Motrin 600mg, and it works better for me than the higher pain meds. Its also better because I dont have to deal with all the side effects of those medications

yeah i was told to take those also idk they sometimes help an sometimes dont lol..but thanx for the comment..im just really tryin away to get used to it because i got a kafo an im learning how to use the arm crutches but when i got this pain i cant move my pt doc said im going to have to get used to walking on my foot with the numb pins an needles..just really hurts do u have movement below injury?if u dont mind me asking..

No problem, I have moderate movement in my right leg and trace in my left. I can stand but have difficulty controlling my knees and bending me knees. I also have bad spacisty which prevents movement in my legs sometimes too.

[wheeliebear75]

strngink, on 06 December 2011 - 12:41 PM, said:

wheeliebear75, on 06 December 2011 - 09:39 AM, said:

For me it's a pushing/heaviness in my spine like a kid a bit too heavy is trying to get a piggy back ride (this is ONLY relieved by laying down). There is also some burning sensations when the weather is bad in my neck & back but like I said it is very much weather related. The nerve pain? It feels like I'm wearing stockings that are too tight; a TOO TIGHT band around the waist @ L2 where I broke my back, below that the whole lower 1/2 feels kinda cold (that's the message they send to my brain no matter how warm the meat is....though they do tend to get ICE COLD most of the time) but the buttocks & bottoms of the feet are THE worst....like hot pins & needles jabbing their way to try & take out a sample of bone-marrow or something.

The 1st thing to return was that when the nurses would cath me I could sort of squeeze my stomach muscles & it would sometimes make the lower abs also push & I could "push" the urine out a bit faster than just gravity. I'd say the next thing was I don't remember wiggling a toe...what I remember was being able not to lift my legs but I could make them jiggle if I tried kicking. And I remember being able to make the foot go from side to side (heel staying on the bed but the upper 1/2 going from left to right...swinging the TOES).

When they 1st started getting me to stand (not the standing frame) with a....I think it's called a "Z-frame"? It's a walker but it's not like the old lady style it's MUCH taller & you have your arms higher up & they strap the arms with Velcro to it. And at 1st I could only stand....NOT pick up my feet. So they (PTs) started off with moving my feet forward FOR me. I probably would have gotten a quicker start on re-learning to walk but I also had dislocated my neck & some other vertebra so there was a TON of pulled muscles in my back & neck. We progressed on to a smaller walker but it still had the arms bent & holding the arms in an "L" shape just lower than before. When I 1st started standing/walking I could barely tell if the ground was actually there or not....it was TRULY like walking on stilts.

After working with PT we then went to granny style walker with wheels on all 4 points. When I went to forearm crutches at 1st my balance was still so they put quad-cane tips on the bottoms to give me better balance. Aside from the added balance they do make it so the crutches don't keep falling over at least....kinda miss that part. LOL I did get to walking with regular forearm crutches for short distances. The "walking" I do probably isn't a "good way" since IT has caused secondary peripheral nerve damage to the legs....but I use the hips to swing my legs forward in a sort of "John Wayne" style. AGAIN I SAY....THIS WAS A NON-GOOD WAY of doing it(you did ask)! In my younger days when I had it in me to just use my upper body to swing my lower 1/2 forward I could go a couple blocks but that was with a number of resting points about every 30-50ft! NOW I'm able to do about 50-100ft on a good day...can't do too many feet of the swing method (bad left shoulder).

The motor & sensory signals started coming back though I've never gotten back FULL use or sensation it has come back for the most part. I can tell that I'm being touched & if it is dull or sharp but can't tell if I'm being touched by a finger or an eraser. And although I can tell if the ground is sold under my feet & usually tell if it is squishy like grass or hard like concrete, but can NOT tell if something like a garden hose or a plumb(fell off a friend's porch cuz of a wayward plumb) is under my foot. So it is still somewhat like walking on stilts just not quite as bad.

If I sit on the floor on my butt I can use my legs to push my butt towards what ever is behind me but not towards what is ahead of me. And if I crawl on my hands & knees....I can crawl forward & use the hips like I do when I walk to drag the legs forward but to crawl backwards is just me pushing myself backwards sliding on my knees.

It was around the 7mo mark that I started to be able to use the "Z-frame" AND when I started to be able to use the hips to lift the legs....the reason I remember THAT was #1 it was "our Christmas present" that year + it's pretty hard to forget when my Mom said she didn't remember crying the 1st time I learned to walk(now I'M in tears....ah memories....the good the bad & the ugly.)

aww such an awsome story yeah ill never give up u got more back then i did in this ammount of time but thats ok ima just keep pushing an again thank u so very much for sharing ur story an recovery thanx

You've still got some more time yet on where you can make gains....& some have reported improvements even after the 18mo mark.

[Niceparalegs]

I have a looot of pain 2 mos out, but only take tramadol and ibu600....oxy for breakthru.. Rarely
.deepbreathing and prayer are all I can do to help me....i cant use much oxy bc of my two yr old.

[harlton]

HI Strngink,. Your most welcome to any help I can offer. Sorry I have not got back to you much sooner. , I've not been on line for a while, distracted with some other things. On your other question I was put on testosterone shots, to help with the sexual disfunction. It had the added bonus of helping me build more muscle to. Which helped when dragging myself around. I'm still on the shots, otherwise I turn into one of those low T guys that dissappears into the wall paper. I have never tried viagra or anything else, not sure if that's a function of my injury, but the T replacement was all I needed, which was only a function of the injury. I think it was all they had back then pre viagra.
I was reading the other comments, and my recovery had many similarities to the others. The pain got worse, as more started to come back. I had a lot of trouble with cold burning in my legs,and thought I was becoming Scott of the Arseantic. Everything I did for almost the first two years made it a lot worse, pain wise. My legs atrophied to almost nothing, and everything below the waist was pretty much useless.
Getting control of the pain and the testosterone replacement, happened close together, and so did the turning point. My Doctors bitched at me about manning things out, and pushing myself into absolute agony, I had resisted using, and the drugs they had tried prior to dilaudid they either didn't work or had to many side effects for me to deal with, what I was trying to cope with,this was out of the question, now being a single, full custodial parent.
I must say trying to be a tough guy, seems to have caused nearly all of my problems, second to that was listening to lazy Dr's not offering workable treatment options, or options in their finaicial best interests. Sad but true. Hope this helps. Ian

[HowiRolldotcom]

Injured at the age of 16 in 1999, and still feel dull achy pain in my legs. I suggest trying some of the following, ranked from most to least helpful:
1) massage
2) stretching
3) Exercise to exhaustion (if possible)
4) heated pool or hot tub
5) lay down with legs elevated above heart
6) heat pad

This is obviously just my opinion, so they may work better or worse for you. Rock on bro.

[Zack]

Yes! Unbearable Pain at times!

[andycans]

yes i'm trying every pain killer going its been nearly six years for me

[Edinburgh Colin]

I did find Dihydrocodene or DF118's were pretty effective, unfortunatley Codine and my bowel are not comparable and I get constipated really bad.