[Simon]

A friend who was one of my teachers when I was paralysed playing rugby in 1983 sent me this. It got me thinking about home much people on here have to spend/year on your care. Even if you get direct payments (uk only) etc, what's it cost in all? Bear in mind according to the Coughlan ruling in 1999, many of you UK resident forum users, will actually be entitled to free care legally, so the nhs should provide your requirements for free. Just as in Matt's case below and mine (when I was UK resident).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/leicest...ire/5211780.stm

[Gary Anderson]

Hi Simon

Very interesting - free care?

My uncle is a dementia sufferer and in a care home in Scotland. My aunt pays part of his care and the Council pay the other part he is in a care home.

Believe it or not under "free care" she could actually be WORSE off because then the Council could pull out completely and she would be left to bear the brunt of all the costs herself. She is actually BETTER off having the Council pay part of the costs.

"Free Care" sounds great but as my Ma always says nothing in this world is free - everything has a price.

I must be honest I had not heard of that guy. However, a mate of mine last September broke his neck playing rugby and since then I have heard of others. Including one who went on a "trip of a lifetime" to Goa and broke his neck in 3 places - have not heard how he is.

I also heard of a doctor who broke is neck mountain biking - he is recovering movement but dont know how he is getting on. Nae problem there. Being a GP his care will be taken care of!!!

Must be something in the air just now causing all those broken necks.

You say could you live on £250,000. If you dont have a trust fund and you dont have money, I wonder who provides the care?

What do you do? Do you get any help on Portugal other than the 24 x 7 care from your wife?

Maybe the system needs a shake up

[russ1]

Quote

is a dementia sufferer and in a care home in Scotland

Scotland has a different system for care than England. In England you 'should' get free care if you require nursing care but you have to pay if it's social care that's required. I'd expect dementia to be classed as social care but I could be wrong.

Quote

I also heard of a doctor who broke is neck mountain biking - he is recovering movement but dont know how he is getting on

You don't happen to have any contact details do you? Similar sounding accident to mine and my legal team are trying to collate any similar occurances.

Matt appears as if he will need (at least at the present) 24/7 nursing care - that's got to cost well in excess of 100k before you even start to look at anything else like physio, OT etc. I've no idea how carers payments / funding works as I've never got involved but 250k seems a little on the high side but probably isn't too far off the real cost of his ongoing care even if much of it will be funded by the NHS. Nice round headline figure anyway. I didn't see any suggestion that he was actually going to have to pay the 250k.

This post has been edited by russ1: 26 July 2006 - 07:36 PM

[Gary Anderson]

Russ

Dont have any contact details. Can only tell you that the guy is a GP in a practice in Jedburgh and the accident happened in a forest at Peebles. Apparently, a 2nd accident occurred there only recently.

Let me know if you want me to try and put out feelers to see if I can ascertain a name for the GP. I should be able to use my contacts.

[mttb14]

Janet Snowden works for a company who deals with all the care details, the company is called Jacqeline Webb and Co and they can work out for solicitors an estimate of care dependent on your needs.

They are experts in rehabilitation and care, if you need it for your solicitors I can get the address and phone number for you.

She has acted on John's behalf in his compensation claim, the case isn't sorted yet, but the care side and the special schedule of damages report has included details from her report and we found them excellent, and they listen to you, also.

Maria

PS. I think the law on care depends on whether or not you have been paid in compensation, if you have and then claim care they would expect you to use the payment you received off the insurance company in your compensation, which would be the biggest part of your pay out. They would not let you have the comp and claim care from the NHS or council.

[russ1]

mttb14, on Jul 27 2006, 07:55 PM, said:

PS. I think the law on care depends on whether or not you have been paid in compensation, if you have and then claim care they would expect you to use the payment you received off the insurance company in your compensation, which would be the biggest part of your pay out. They would not let you have the comp and claim care from the NHS or council.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one - obviously any compensation payment would be taken into account in any means tested care (ie social care) but the whole point is that if you require nursing care then this should, in law, be provided free of charge by the NHS. The fact that you have recieved a payment for future care as part of your compensation is, in law, no different from owning your own house or having savings.

Thanks for the thought re care expert but my solicitor has all those bases covered.

[mttb14]

Hi,

I wasn't sure, but just going on what we have been told by solicitors and barresters in recent years. I know if you have received benefits in the first 5 years of your claim, the DSS are entitled to claim back the payments made to you out of your compensation.

It looks like what you get in one hand someone is always ready to take it back in the other.

What is going to be really confusing for all of us in the UK is that Scotland can make their own laws and rules, now Wales can too, so we could all end up with different rulings depending on what the politicians think is most important in their own countries. Prescriptions in Wales are free to all 25 and unders, so loads of people in England cross the severn bridge and use welsh chemists to avoid the prescription charges. Students were reported to car share so they pay one bridge fee between them and no prescription charges.

Also we did not know that the Severn Bridge is free of toll fees if you have a Blue Badge. We have paid several times, as we did not know.

Maria

[russ1]

mttb14, on Jul 28 2006, 09:57 AM, said:

Hi,

I wasn't sure, but just going on what we have been told by solicitors and barresters in recent years. I know if you have received benefits in the first 5 years of your claim, the DSS are entitled to claim back the payments made to you out of your compensation.

That certainly is true but only in respect of any means tested benefits (eg income support or facilities grants) Benefits such as DLA and Incapacity benefit that are not means tested are not repayable. At least that's the way it's been explained to me.

Seems entirely correct to my mind. Why should the tax payer pay (who remember is you an me) when there's a responsible party (the person who's being sued) who should pay. It's not like you lose out personally as it's taken account of by the award and if you didn't have to pay the money back your award would be less by an equivalent amount.

[mttb14]

Hi,

I'm not sure which benefits could be reclaimed because, to date we haven't claimed any, when he applied and was turned down, too much was going on and he was in hospital for the appeal hearing so he just gave up and we have managed on the money we both earn and family tax credit. We read the decision of final to mean just that, which until recently we did not know he could re-apply and have that decision over turned. Everything seems to be a fight whilst people we know, who are in far better health than John seem to get everything. Having an incomplete injury seems to really confuse the medical people involved on behalf of the DSS.

We are in the middle of claiming DLA and Industrial Injures Disablement benefit, and the barrester was talking as if these counted also, but I'm not sure. It didn't apply to John as his accident happened 8 years ago and the compensation fight still goes on, so any benefit he might now claim are out of the 5 year timescale anyway. Final hearing date is 20th November, 2006 as set by a very annoyed Judge when he discovered how long this claim has been dragging on.

Maria

[gazrobsuk]

I was very lucky & got settlement after 3 years probably coz they know where you are at roughly & could go downhill making it more expensive. As part of my compensation though I was given the money to cover my private insurances' costs which were significant e.g. £75k & also my solicitors costs (£125k) so they give it in one hand but take it away.

Russ is right about the non means tested stuff as I've always claimed DLA etc (and my wife gets a carers allowance now too) despite a big (ish) payout.

One thing that miffs me is the way an injury like a broken neck is just looked up in a matrix e.g. so much for an eye, so much for a leg & in the case of quadriplegia/tetraplegia (incomplete) my value with all this pain & suffering & disability was £150k. All the rest of my payment was/is supposedly for equipment & care needs both present & future.

Hey, I'm not complaining though as I'm lucky that I still kept a good job working from home & got compensation which has bought us a few 'toys' whereas I know many others haven't got either of those.

Gaz

mttb14, on Jul 28 2006, 01:47 PM, said:

Hi,

I'm not sure which benefits could be reclaimed because, to date we haven't claimed any, when he applied and was turned down, too much was going on and he was in hospital for the appeal hearing so he just gave up and we have managed on the money we both earn and family tax credit. We read the decision of final to mean just that, which until recently we did not know he could re-apply and have that decision over turned. Everything seems to be a fight whilst people we know, who are in far better health than John seem to get everything. Having an incomplete injury seems to really confuse the medical people involved on behalf of the DSS.

We are in the middle of claiming DLA and Industrial Injures Disablement benefit, and the barrester was talking as if these counted also, but I'm not sure. It didn't apply to John as his accident happened 8 years ago and the compensation fight still goes on, so any benefit he might now claim are out of the 5 year timescale anyway. Final hearing date is 20th November, 2006 as set by a very annoyed Judge when he discovered how long this claim has been dragging on.

Maria

[Gary Anderson]

From good old railways I got meagre payout. I get DLA but NOT carers allowance as I can go out and work. Despite the fact that in the beginning I needed assistance. On the flip side, I know someone getting full carers allowance and every other benefit under the sun yet they are "on the take" as it is obvious they are not as "disabled" as they tell everyone.

[mttb14]

Quote

One thing that miffs me is the way an injury like a broken neck is just looked up in a matrix e.g. so much for an eye, so much for a leg & in the case of quadriplegia/tetraplegia (incomplete) my value with all this pain & suffering & disability was £150k. All the rest of my payment was/is supposedly for equipment & care needs both present & future.

I don't know how much is for injury, but out of an estimated schedule of special damages a figure of £1,300,000 over £750,000 is for past and future care, plus then £180,000 for housing and £60,000 for adaptation to housing, but the insurer's who took on the case get 35% off the claim, except for the section for housing and renovation. (So that would be approx £400,000 of it straight away gone to cover costs).

Depends on what the Judge believes on the day, as to whether it goes in John's favour or the Insurance companies, so at the moment life is very much on hold and we are sitting in limbo waiting to see which way it goes, hoping that justice is done. Trying to explain chronic pain, and how an incomplete injury affects your life is almost impossible for someone who has no experience of it to understand.

Sounds a lot, but by the time the necessary things are paid for, bungalow and adaptation and possible future care, it won't last that long. I wonder how much a judge, doctor, barrester or solicitor would think an incomplete SCI was worth if they had to endure the Chronic Pain and all the associated problems if they had to experience it for themselves.


Maria

[gazrobsuk]

Hi Maria,

Maybe I wasn't clear in my last post too as I meant £75k to medical costs incurred e.g. I had BUPA etc & the legal people say they incurred costs that should be repaid as it wasn't my fault etc. So I guess you wouldn't have those repayment costs but just ther legal costs.

Also 35% of the total claim sounds a ripoff as you say the claim could well be over a million etc so I think my legal team though expensive (but one of the best & most experienced in this kinda thing) seem much fairer (I can give you their details though it might be too late:-))

After all if you were successfull & got 2-4 million which is not unheard of then they would get (if 35%) between £700k - £1.4 million which is ridiculous as it's the same amount of work.

In my case the fees were for 3 years work obviously but included things like professional/independant assessments from O/T-physio etc etc - even 2nd opinion on the police measurements etc as well as a barraster involved to strengthen the case etc etc just about everything you can think of & more but they should factor in yourself & the extra time & costs for you to run around. We claimed for every penny & more.

As you touched on & what miffs me is just the matrix for this so with my injury the pidgeon hole is £150k regardless of pain & suffering though I guess that's hard to prove. £150k is nothing IMO for half my adult life to cope with all this crap but I did get loss of earnings etc as I used to do a lot of oncall/out of hours work which increased my salary a lot so I'm really lucky now as I work from home & get paid pretty good & don't have to work beyond 6pm ha ha & as mentioned I feel pretty lucky compared to a lot of folks.

I'm always around on email if you need my 2C.

Gaz

mttb14, on Jul 28 2006, 06:05 PM, said:

Quote

One thing that miffs me is the way an injury like a broken neck is just looked up in a matrix e.g. so much for an eye, so much for a leg & in the case of quadriplegia/tetraplegia (incomplete) my value with all this pain & suffering & disability was £150k. All the rest of my payment was/is supposedly for equipment & care needs both present & future.

I don't know how much is for injury, but out of an estimated schedule of special damages a figure of £1,300,000 over £750,000 is for past and future care, plus then £180,000 for housing and £60,000 for adaptation to housing, but the insurer's who took on the case get 35% off the claim, except for the section for housing and renovation. (So that would be approx £400,000 of it straight away gone to cover costs).

Depends on what the Judge believes on the day, as to whether it goes in John's favour or the Insurance companies, so at the moment life is very much on hold and we are sitting in limbo waiting to see which way it goes, hoping that justice is done. Trying to explain chronic pain, and how an incomplete injury affects your life is almost impossible for someone who has no experience of it to understand.

Sounds a lot, but by the time the necessary things are paid for, bungalow and adaptation and possible future care, it won't last that long. I wonder how much a judge, doctor, barrester or solicitor would think an incomplete SCI was worth if they had to endure the Chronic Pain and all the associated problems if they had to experience it for themselves.


Maria

[mttb14]

Hi Gaz,

Thanks for the offer of your 2c, at this moment we feel like committing murder. Our Doctor and their doctor were supposed to discuss and agree reports by 3rd Aug, but their doctor (who in his humble opinion reckons that John's injury was a mere neck sprain and all this was going to happen anyway due to old age, he was 33 when it happened, now he's 41) has gone away on holiday so we have to wait for him to get back to discuss the finer details and to see what they can agree jointly.

It is a whole mockery, John saw the defendant's Orthopaedic Doctor 3 times and he agreed with our Spinal Doctor, the defendants where obviously not happy with that, and asked the Judge for time to get a spinal consultant, the Judge agreed and the docrtor they named as being spinal is actually just another orthopaedic doctor, who is less qualified than the first, with an interest in Spinal injuries. I have an interest and so do you, but that doesn't make us spinal doctors.

We have tried to get the 35% altered but to no avail, and it is too close to the Court date to up route everything now, the solicitor has 11 or 12 full folders.

We just want to get on with our lives as best we can without all of this in the background. John had hydro pool today and he is really struggling to us his left side, (cord flattened on left side C5/6) so he is in mega pain and as snappy as hell. Then its Physio for 30 mins on Wednesday, so we have a bad day again. Today, I feel really fed up, I expect Heather your wife feels the same on times, its really hard to cope some days.

I think having an incomplete injury is really confusing to everyone, including the doctors as no one seems to know what the limitations will be or what improvements there will be. John's worse problem is chronic pain, but the tendons behind his knees and in his elbows give him the most pain as they stay really tight and he says its like really bad toothache. I would like to inflict one week of our life on the Judge, Solicitors and Doctors just so they could get a real understanding, then maybe they would understand real pain and spasms, especially the spasms that shake John's whole body from 8 pm to about 4 am on a really bad night.

Our solicitor told me to sleep in another room when they are happening, now wouldn't that make me a really nice, caring wife.

Anyway, thats enough whinging for one day, speak to you later.

Maria

[gazrobsuk]

Maria,

You have my sympathy & as a chronic pain sufferer who has been through a compo claim I can truly empathise. Hopefully someday soon (Nov if I recall) you'll have it all sorted as the money helps with 'stuff' though doesn't change the pain etc.

I know what you mean about 'snappy' as I get the grumps a lot when I'm struggling & poor Hev has to be there & suffer my moods so she (you) deserve a medal for sure so I hope he treats you bigtime for all the support.

Keep your chin up, it'll all work out hopefully but don't let John give up as it is tempting I know.

Gaz

mttb14, on Jul 31 2006, 12:29 PM, said:

Hi Gaz,

Thanks for the offer of your 2c, at this moment we feel like committing murder. Our Doctor and their doctor were supposed to discuss and agree reports by 3rd Aug, but their doctor (who in his humble opinion reckons that John's injury was a mere neck sprain and all this was going to happen anyway due to old age, he was 33 when it happened, now he's 41) has gone away on holiday so we have to wait for him to get back to discuss the finer details and to see what they can agree jointly.

It is a whole mockery, John saw the defendant's Orthopaedic Doctor 3 times and he agreed with our Spinal Doctor, the defendants where obviously not happy with that, and asked the Judge for time to get a spinal consultant, the Judge agreed and the docrtor they named as being spinal is actually just another orthopaedic doctor, who is less qualified than the first, with an interest in Spinal injuries. I have an interest and so do you, but that doesn't make us spinal doctors.

We have tried to get the 35% altered but to no avail, and it is too close to the Court date to up route everything now, the solicitor has 11 or 12 full folders.

We just want to get on with our lives as best we can without all of this in the background. John had hydro pool today and he is really struggling to us his left side, (cord flattened on left side C5/6) so he is in mega pain and as snappy as hell. Then its Physio for 30 mins on Wednesday, so we have a bad day again. Today, I feel really fed up, I expect Heather your wife feels the same on times, its really hard to cope some days.

I think having an incomplete injury is really confusing to everyone, including the doctors as no one seems to know what the limitations will be or what improvements there will be. John's worse problem is chronic pain, but the tendons behind his knees and in his elbows give him the most pain as they stay really tight and he says its like really bad toothache. I would like to inflict one week of our life on the Judge, Solicitors and Doctors just so they could get a real understanding, then maybe they would understand real pain and spasms, especially the spasms that shake John's whole body from 8 pm to about 4 am on a really bad night.

Our solicitor told me to sleep in another room when they are happening, now wouldn't that make me a really nice, caring wife.

Anyway, thats enough whinging for one day, speak to you later.

Maria

[mttb14]

Hi Gaz,

Thanks for the support, I had two diamond eternity rings for my 40th recently, John said it felt like we had been through 2 eternities in the last 8 years, so I could class them as my medals. I do annoy him by going, bling bling, with both hands infront of his face, that's my childish side coming out. (I'm working on the your as young as you feel, so by being childish every now and again, I keep my youthful side going).

With the weeks going by as quickly as they are it won't be long to November, but the bungalow we hoped to buy, looks as if it might be sold to someone else, as we could not move quick enough. There is a real shortage of good sized, wheelchair friendly bungalows in our area. Most are split level or up or down steps, hills, that is the problem with Wales (all the mountains).

He does apologise after he has snapped, but it is real hard work at the time, not to snap back.

Keep in touch, did I read somewhere that your 50th is coming up soon?

Maria

[gazrobsuk]

Maria,

Yeah, next Friday the 11th but the party isn't until the 19th so I'm in training. Of course y'all are meant to look at my photos on my web in disbelief at me being 50 but looking so young ha ha. Still got a bit of hair & not too grey yet.

Last year we celebrated a belated 25th wedding anniversary & I'm never romantic but I arranged a trip abroad to Amsterdam & we bought a good quality rock which was two or three times what I intended to pay for a diamond but Hev luvs it (2.1 carat) but it cost a fortune but I figured she's worth it after what she's been through.

It was so expensive that we couldn't get insurance until we installed a safe at home bolted to the floor doh. As for me well blokes don't wear too much bling so watches are my little passion so when we bought the 'rock' I got a nice cheap old Cartier but I also have a Tag heur & a Rado etc etc so that's my thing but I really can't get any more as I've run out of justification ha.

mttb14, on Jul 31 2006, 01:24 PM, said:

Hi Gaz,

Thanks for the support, I had two diamond eternity rings for my 40th recently, John said it felt like we had been through 2 eternities in the last 8 years, so I could class them as my medals. I do annoy him by going, bling bling, with both hands infront of his face, that's my childish side coming out. (I'm working on the your as young as you feel, so by being childish every now and again, I keep my youthful side going).

With the weeks going by as quickly as they are it won't be long to November, but the bungalow we hoped to buy, looks as if it might be sold to someone else, as we could not move quick enough. There is a real shortage of good sized, wheelchair friendly bungalows in our area. Most are split level or up or down steps, hills, that is the problem with Wales (all the mountains).

He does apologise after he has snapped, but it is real hard work at the time, not to snap back.

Keep in touch, did I read somewhere that your 50th is coming up soon?

Maria

[Ironside]

I have been through all this recently with the local Health Authority. When me and my girlfriend split up, I needed a lot more care. I went to them and said what I wanted but they would only give me a certain amount of money. To be quite honest, it was an insult, it worked out to less than a pound an hour. after a lot of arguing, they gave me what I needed. Healthcare is free, or it should be. However, people often think something is Healthcare when it actually isn't. For example, showering someone is not deemed Healthcare, doing someone's bowels, is. Getting someone out of bed and dressing them is not Healthcare, preparing tablets is. The average disabled person like myself has very little Healthcare indeed which obviously doesn't give you much money.

You have to really fight the Health Authority to get what you want, if you don't, they walk all over you

[mttb14]

Quote

Maria,

Yeah, next Friday the 11th but the party isn't until the 19th so I'm in training. Of course y'all are meant to look at my photos on my web in disbelief at me being 50 but looking so young ha ha. Still got a bit of hair & not too grey yet.

Last year we celebrated a belated 25th wedding anniversary & I'm never romantic but I arranged a trip abroad to Amsterdam & we bought a good quality rock which was two or three times what I intended to pay for a diamond but Hev luvs it (2.1 carat) but it cost a fortune but I figured she's worth it after what she's been through.

It was so expensive that we couldn't get insurance until we installed a safe at home bolted to the floor doh. As for me well blokes don't wear too much bling so watches are my little passion so when we bought the 'rock' I got a nice cheap old Cartier but I also have a Tag heur & a Rado etc etc so that's my thing but I really can't get any more as I've run out of justification ha.

Hi Gaz,

I bet your wife does like her new rock, I love diamonds, the one eternity ring is 1 carat and the other is 45 point, whatever that means, both in 18 carat gold. John and you would get on well, he loves watches and doesn't need much of an excuse to have a new one. He is really into the ones with all the dials on, I don't know how to use them, or why we need to know the time is hong kong, australia etc, but he loves them.

We pass shops with watches worth thousands and he drools, just as much as I do over the diamonds.

We have a long way to go to our 25th Anniversary, we have our 3rd coming up, but we have been together since 1994 so nearly 12 years. Your picture doesn't make you look 50, but pictures can be deceiving, ha ha.

What solicitors did you use for your compo claim just out of interest. The whole compo situation is really driving us mad, to think that one man, (judge) can decide your future is really rediculous, what if he wakes up in a bad mood, or couldn't find a parking space on his way to Court. He could totally decide against you just because he is in a bad mood.

Speak to you soon.

Maria

[gazrobsuk]

Hi Maria,

We used Stewarts who are very experienced in SCI claims. The link is in my 'links' section on my web or try: http://www.spinalcordinjury.co.uk/

As previously mentioned whilst not cheap (lot better than your deal:-) & you can do some negotiation with the fee too but they managed everything & we got settlement in 3 years but maybe that isn't normal if it depends on the insurance company involved.

As for the 'rock' it's not only about the 'carat' size (though generally the bigger the more expensive) it's about the cut/quality so we've seen cheaper 2 carat diamonds but when you buy a big rock you get a special certificate relating to it's cut/quality so maybe that's the 45 point thing but I'm not sure without digging out our special certificate.


--------------------------------

What solicitors did you use for your compo claim just out of interest. The whole compo situation is really driving us mad, to think that one man, (judge) can decide your future is really rediculous, what if he wakes up in a bad mood, or couldn't find a parking space on his way to Court. He could totally decide against you just because he is in a bad mood.

Speak to you soon.

Maria
[/quote]

[SCOTIE]

Ironside, on Jul 31 2006, 09:37 PM, said:

I have been through all this recently with the local Health Authority. When me and my girlfriend split up, I needed a lot more care. I went to them and said what I wanted but they would only give me a certain amount of money. To be quite honest, it was an insult, it worked out to less than a pound an hour. after a lot of arguing, they gave me what I needed. Healthcare is free, or it should be. However, people often think something is Healthcare when it actually isn't. For example, showering someone is not deemed Healthcare, doing someone's bowels, is. Getting someone out of bed and dressing them is not Healthcare, preparing tablets is. The average disabled person like myself has very little Healthcare indeed which obviously doesn't give you much money.

You have to really fight the Health Authority to get what you want, if you don't, they walk all over you

I can't get any healthcare up here in scotland is it different ?? but need it

[Picnic]

I'm in the process of applying for Continuing (Health) Care

[Geezer34]

russ1, on Jul 27 2006, 11:31 PM, said:

mttb14, on Jul 27 2006, 07:55 PM, said:

PS. I think the law on care depends on whether or not you have been paid in compensation, if you have and then claim care they would expect you to use the payment you received off the insurance company in your compensation, which would be the biggest part of your pay out. They would not let you have the comp and claim care from the NHS or council.

I'm pretty sure you're wrong about this one - obviously any compensation payment would be taken into account in any means tested care (ie social care) but the whole point is that if you require nursing care then this should, in law, be provided free of charge by the NHS. The fact that you have recieved a payment for future care as part of your compensation is, in law, no different from owning your own house or having savings.

Thanks for the thought re care expert but my solicitor has all those bases covered.

Hi russ

i've got hpoefully some compensation coming from my accident and you sound like you know a bit, got to pick my kids up now but wouldnt mind running a few questions past you?? is that ok??

Ian!!